Well, as someone who is a bit into all that science thingies I was wondering how were experiments using animals regarded by the SG community. As you know, this site is full of a rather interesting bunch of people from everywhere around the globe and it's always nice to know the opinions of those who have been raised with different cultures and that.

So yeah, I wanted to know. What are your views on experiments using animals? Do you refuse to buy products that do so? Any kind of product? If you don't agree with said practice what alternatives might you suggest?

Also I would like to know some of your background, I mean what makes you think that way.

Go on, share your views.

:3

11 years ago*

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Well I feel sorry for them, but it's necessary evil. I would go as far as experimentation on humans as well.

11 years ago
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What humans do you consider suitable for testing?

11 years ago
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politicians. and lawyers.

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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Looks at self

Go for it bro.

11 years ago
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Any volunteers.

11 years ago
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Same here. At least humans can give informed consent.

11 years ago
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Somehow i read "What are your views on animal sex experimentation?"... and for some reason i didn't feel startled at all :|

11 years ago
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It's the internet man. Nothing can surprise you now D:

11 years ago
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For some reason when I read this, I exhaled a fuck ton of air out of my nostrils. 3-4x more than usual.

11 years ago
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I wouldn't even mind human experimentation. Most of living things are pretty much pointless, so at least they could contribute to something abit greater.

11 years ago
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So sign up for experimentation on you. I wouldn't mind that.

11 years ago
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I know you wouldn't mind, why would you? But I would mind.And I was speaking from social perspective.

11 years ago
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Everyone would mind, that is the point!

11 years ago
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But who said they would be picked at random, they can get good money for it so they wouldn't mind (not forced obviously) or just do experiments on certain prisoners (It's not like the government cares if they mind it or not).

11 years ago
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People that are forced to be abnormally poor by greedy rich people to do experiments for hope for surviving? I think that is not fair. And prisoners are people too, for their crimes they do not have freedom but they do not deserve to be lab rat.

11 years ago
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Yup it would not be fair if people were to go for experiments just for money because they aren't poor, but when was the world ever about fairness. Also, I didn't say all prisoners, I said certain ones (maybe rapists because if they think they can do whatever they want with the bodies of other then they should get the same thing), and freedom is not the only thing that is taken, some get executed (in certain countries) and other live in hellish conditions, so they could present them an option, instead of getting executed or living in hellish conditions they could be transformed to some facility with very good condition and be in experiments, and also the option to quit the experiments whenever they wanted and return to hellish conditions or execution.

11 years ago
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Sure, Have any ideas where to sign up? :P

11 years ago
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i would also support human experimentation. It might be possible to bred humans though cloning to research several deseases.

11 years ago
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Clones are human too, with fillings and everything and if they will be created they deserve normal life like we have.

11 years ago
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Gotta agree on this one, perfect clones would be absolutely the same as humans, so there will be no justification to discriminate. But one thing they can do is to create clones and modify them so they aren't bothered by experiments, that way there wouldn't be a problem.

11 years ago
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this, thanks for the quick answer number 1

11 years ago
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STOP KILLING BACTERIA IN EXPERIMENTS.

Kingdom Monera needs some love too.
11 years ago
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Oh, those are not even considered living beings. It's like plants. I mean as they don't complain. Also by taking many drugs you are killing living beings. But well, those are not cute.

11 years ago
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Well when animals are experimented on, they don't complain either. Also by eating meat products, you are killing many animals too.

BTW that bacteria thing is something your thread reminded me of about a girl in my class joking about growing up to be a bacteria activist with the teacher a few years ago.
11 years ago
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I was not serious. I mean I was half joking as people often fight for the rights of the animals they happen to like or feel identified with.

Also yeah, bacteria are horribly mistreated.

11 years ago
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You know, according to some studies plants can feel pain and even inform other plants about it.

11 years ago
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This might sound a bit evil but they should test stuff like that on prisoners.

It's their own fault if they commit a crime right? Why not use them for something good.

It is better than hurting an animal and we get better results if we try on humans.

P.S. By prisoners i mean people that commit crimes like Murder, Rape, Arson and other serious crimes that hurt people.

11 years ago
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No, not really. Also there was this guy, what was his name. Oh Mengele. He had similar views.

11 years ago
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Depends. If they're on death row, sure, why not? :D

And please, no one say anything about humane deaths and how they must have a painless death etc. The majority of people who murder someone and end up on death row didn't kill that person painlessly.

11 years ago
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It would pervert justice even if they were willing. Would you rather sentence someone to life in prison or to death and them make a positive contribution to furthering medicine? Juries would be more willing to sentence to death, which is unfair since you're only supposed to focus on the crime.

11 years ago
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Agreed.

11 years ago
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Good point. I concede

11 years ago
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Good point. I concede

11 years ago
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"This might sound a bit evil but they should test stuff like that on prisoners."

A guy selling weed or stealing something to feed his family doesn't deserve this, you should be more clear because this came off as incredibly ignorant.

11 years ago
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Yeah, i should have been more clear on that part.

It should be for more serious crimes like Murder, Rape and stuff like that.
If they do stuff like that why not use them for something good.

11 years ago
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I don't want to start a discussion about what you are proposing. But I'm just going to say that I don't like it.

11 years ago
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So you want us to experiment on innocent animals?

Isn't it better to do it on people that only bring misery and sadness to this world.

11 years ago
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Someone left the demagoges door open. It seems.

11 years ago
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You do realize how many people are wrongly incarcerated right? At least thats how it goes around my parts...sometimes it scary just being outside, who knows, people are idiots.

11 years ago
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Yes but whats the point of this question? Would you die so an animal can live? We can't really have a say in this because it does more good than evil...

11 years ago
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I am indifferent, but it kind of pisses me off that we only do that because humans are too much of cowards to do them themselves. I would appreciate more human experimentation than on animals, they literally haven't done anything to deserve that. Then again, those same experiments may help animals so why not. It works.

11 years ago
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Sorry, what?

11 years ago
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TL;DR I think it's wrong but i really don't care. It brings more good than bad. Also, humans are cowards

=p

11 years ago
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rather them than me tbh.

11 years ago
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for medical science, a necessary evil. for cosmetics and frivolous stuff, i don't approve

11 years ago
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+1

11 years ago
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As a chemist myself, can't agree more.

11 years ago
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To cure disease? A most likely necessary evil.

To make my hair more shiny? Go chock on a D scientists/whatever creature demons.

Btw I don't eat meat because I love all the furry critters but I do see its application when it comes to REALLY important stuff.

11 years ago
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You know, your body needs protein, there's a reason our anatomy is not herbivorous, a necessary evil.

And you make all the plants scream while cutting them:

click me 1, click me 2

11 years ago
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No. Actually you can get most of all the macro and micro nutrients from vegetal sources.

11 years ago
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It's not only protein by the way, there are omega acids you also need and cannot synthesize yourself.

clicky

11 years ago
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I know what you need and there are several plants that contain those fatty acids. It will be more difficult to get them as for example B12 too. But well, you can. I'm not saying that being vegetarian is the optimal choice, what is more I don't share that kind of thinking but well. You can survive by only eating plants and stuff.

11 years ago
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Researched it for years, I know what I am doing, doctors tell me I am extremely healthy.

Not gonna have this convo with another idiot, did that to many times, also let me put this out, I don't force my views on you unlike some people, also I eat fish, have a good day sir.

11 years ago
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I'll never understand people who cannot eat meat. But yes I agree with you because my niece refuses to eat meat as well. We cannot force her to eat meat (she won't even eat fish!).

11 years ago
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Thats fine by me honestly, I really can't stand most people that don't eat meat to be honest ironically enough, mainly because they act like they are somehow superior or that meat eaters are evil...but honestly some people who eat meat also like to spew "Facts"(Hint hint, mostly opinion based at this point, you can find "facts" supporting both sides by real scientists :-D.)

If a vegetarian or whatever is unhealthy and I have seen it, its mostly because of the 99% bread and soy(Read: Terrible for the body, don't do it, only fermented is good for you which is a small percentage, the rest is gmo none fermented crap). I remember I ate soy products for like a month or two and was wondering why I felt like I was dieing haha, then came the research and I understood why my health was dropping, apparently some even compared it to drug usage its so bad...O_o.

Honestly I don't care what people eat, wanna eat a cat? Whatever, wanna eat spiders, go for it...really none of my business :-P.

11 years ago
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Yeah pretty much, really have been doing this for 15 years and am fine really...so he talks bs really :-).

11 years ago
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As long as you are healty eat what you want. I'm not a vegetarian and I'll bet my way of eating is way more fucked up than yours.

11 years ago
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I do for the most part, everyone has occasional snacks though :-D.

11 years ago
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:)))))))))))))))))

11 years ago
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I think you don't eat meat because you like to steal their food :(

11 years ago
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Caught me red handed....from berries...not meat :-P.

11 years ago
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EXACTLY this ^^^

Alternatives? There's a shitloads of pedos and rapists that live off taxpayers money, make them useful while saving animals. If HUMANS are gonna use something, better to test on HUMANS (debatable when comes to rapists and pedos though) than animals.

Edit: Just now saw the debate that's been going on about that, my bad

11 years ago
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Grow up

11 years ago
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:*
y so bitter tho

11 years ago
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O.o

11 years ago
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o.O

11 years ago
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I have no issue with experimentation as long as it is done in a way that is humane and not cruel. I also feel the same when it comes to humans. I'm all for responsible experimentation, as in setting up good studies, knowing when to stop if it looks like it may be doing harm, etc.

Like another said, I would also support using prisoners serving a life sentence or on death row also contributing to medical science in that way. Basically people who have committed heinous enough crimes that they will not leave prison alive and only with drugs that have passed enough testing to be approved for human tests (so we know it is likely not outright harmful, just more need to know long term effects, appropriate dosage and efficacy), so this would be things that a hospital could use on patients in certain circumstances and with the patient's approval as well.

11 years ago
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The entire point of experimentation precludes the possibility of humane treatment.
WE do not put lipstick on apes or eyeliner on rabbits to see it will look nice. We do it to see it will make their eyes fall out or if they start screaming uncontrollably in pain.

11 years ago
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I don't really mind if it's on spiders, cockroaches or mice (I hate them, and they give me the creeps).

On a more serious note, I'm ok with them doing experiments if it's for medical purposes, otherwise, no. We all know already how apes look with lipstick... FREAKING HILARIOUS.

11 years ago
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Only if it is necessary. There has to be put a lot thought into a product before they should just test on animals. I do understand the importance of experimenting due to it is either that or humans... or even not making discoveries at all. I would like to believe an animal is worth sacrificing for the greater good. Hell, even sacrificing one human should seem logical for the greater good. Regardless, a lot of thought should be put into it first. No reason to make something forever ill or dead just because of impatience.

11 years ago
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I believe in no limits to science. If you think it will work, do it. Document the results and share them. Just don't break the universe.

11 years ago
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We're confiscating your 4 month old puppy in the name of science.

11 years ago
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Read Planet of the Apes.

11 years ago
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Yup, a sci-fi novel provides with all scientific proof necessary to ban AE from the entire earth.

11 years ago
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And your point is?

11 years ago
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Clones are the future. Lets grow a biologically identical version of the animal but limit it's synaptic growth so that it doesn't actually think or feel the same way it's counterpart does.

11 years ago
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Wouldn't that imply some ethical issues?

11 years ago
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Completely depends on where the ethical limits are. Cloning an organ wouldn't get much hostility but an entire body without the organs probably would. This is theoretical of course, I'm not saying it would be possible to clone a person without any organs lol.

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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I love that film, but I didn't use it for inspiration ^^

11 years ago
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i hate it

11 years ago
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Why? Could you please develop?

11 years ago
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theoretically:

If the trial would allow to save human lives by reducing delays on the release of new medicine, then yes. Otherwise no

plus: animal experimentation should be an extrema ratio

plus: animal should not feel any pain

11 years ago
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If the test does not require pain analysis, animals DO NOT feel pain, at least not during and in the subsequent time from the test. Pain, like stress and abnormal conditions can lead to altered results, thus wasting time.

And let's not forget that scientists are people too, not sadistic psychopats.

11 years ago
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I can accept (tolerate the idea of) experimental testing on animals

  • if there are no other reasonable alternatives to animal experimentation
  • if the experimentations have a fair chance of contributing something usefull to the project/research
  • if said project/research is done in the interest of humanity/the environment
  • if the experemintations are done in a manner to limit the negative (side)effects on the test subjects as much as reasonable possible

On a side note, if you were to ask the same question about human experimentation e.g. med trial my answer would be quite similar with the addition of participation having to be volontary and that particpants should be able to make an informed decision.

11 years ago
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basically the only one that I have is that its better than stemcells or the alternative(human experimentation)

11 years ago
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And let's not forget that scientists are people too, as well sadistic psychopats are .

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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Agreed, the humans are on the top of the food chain, if we can use animal tests to benefit our society, im all in. But nothing against to make the tests more ethical possible, we are not barbarians after all.

11 years ago
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I concur. We are the prototype barbarians. Can hardly go farther than we did.

11 years ago
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Provides no benefit. Results still are vaguely applicable to humans, at best. Not to mention the emotional impact most of this testing has on animals, most times severe. Good read on this topic:

The Animal Manifesto: Six Reasons for Expanding Our Compassion Footprint

11 years ago
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perhaps i should clarify, it is not a necessary method for experimentation. There are plenty of alternatives which are not harmful to animals.

11 years ago
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There are valid reasons why alternative methods can't entirely substitute AE.

11 years ago
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No. There's no reliable models that can completely substitute animals in many occasions.

11 years ago
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Pretty much this. If there was a more humane way and cheaper/reliable way to test, company's would do it. But simulations cannot always predict how the body reacts to drugs.

11 years ago
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^ I think there's a project trying to simulate C. elegans but it's slow work and people are uncertain about its predictive power.

11 years ago
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i am a human, but also an animal and i would suffer if someone performs experiments on me, so i do not agree on experimenting on other animals either.

11 years ago
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I hope you don't take any prescription drugs nor anything like that. You know, for coherence's sake.

11 years ago
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Have you ever heard of clinical trials, you know the ones that TEST ON HUMANS! OMGGGG

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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Before those drugs get tested on humans, they have to be tested on animals.

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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It's ok for medicines. It's evil scum-sucking sadistic psycho stuff for cosmetic and hygiene products. My opinion.

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by MrCastiglia.