That's one of the reasons I always activate my keys immediately after purchase.
But this situation is a bad one for many people including the gifters and winners of Star Ruler 2 giveaways.
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I do not believe the people wanting the already activating keys to additionally be revoked quite understand why it is the developer did not want to revoke. Its actually rather simple. Steam Reviews. if dev were to pull those licenses too, the reviews of the game would skyrocket with negative reviews from those that had already farmed the cards and had playtime on their account. currently there is 0 negative reviews on this game due to this incident.. it would of totally bombarded it and dropped it from a 81% positive to a 81% negative (if not worse). in those regards the dev played their hand smart. now im not saying this is fair to anyone what so ever, im just explaining why i think it is the dev left those keys licenses alone.
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If your activated key is revoked, you can't post a negative review, as you no longer own the product.
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i thought the same until i was able to do so for ultimate arena. though i removed my negative after dev replaced my revoked key, many others still have their negative feedback remaining. you can see a ton a revoked key negative feedbacks still remain for yourself =)
edit: it had a ton, not really a ton anymore i suppose because the dev did hand out keys to everyone who contacted them for replacement, but a few negatives still stuck.
edit2: i also had a SG win revoked around a month ago and still can leave feedback on that game that i dont own either. though i wouldnt in that case because that was payment revoked issues and not related to dev at all in that particular situation.
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Valve won't let you refund DLCs if you add them to a game with more than 2 hours of gametime on it -.-
That's not true. It counts the time since you purchased the DLC. So you can have 400h played in a game, purchase a DLC, play for 1 more hour and be able to refund the DLC.
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Every post on the topic on SG that I've encountered, as well as every individual I've spoken to on it off of SG has indicated what I just restated is Valve's approach to things. A google search also returns several results such as this, which also agree that the base gameplay is what Valve recognizes for its DLCs.
I've even known individuals who've stated that they tried to refund DLCs immediately after, due to finding them cheaper elsewhere [eg, as when a bundle drops the same day of purchase], and not gotten refunds despite not having loaded the game up at all since their purchase.
On the flip side, I've never once heard of anyone managing to refund a DLC successfully in such a circumstance. If you've experience that'd give me a counterpoint in that regard, by all means, please share. Either way, however, it seems that your experiences would be an inconsistency, if not an outright rarity.
You're correct that the Steam FAQ claims time since-purchase is what DLCs reference, but in practice it seems that the matter is compromised by Valve's usual inattention to quality or care. :X
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Yes, my claim was based on Steam FAQ, never tried it myself.
[edit]
After reading the post in that link, it seems that player though only time actually playing the DLC content counted. Of course Steam can't know what exactly in a game you're playing, only that you're playing a specific game. He bought a DLC, played the game for a few days (but not the content specific to that DLC) for several hours, and tried the DLC for half an hour and tried to refund it. Of course that was refused because he has played for more than 2 hours, even if it wasn't playing the content of the DLC.
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I see your point. That was a poor example to reference.
Anyway, you can't trust the Steam FAQ, Valve never abides by it.
For example, it says you can refund steam gifts you've given to others, so long as the person who activated still falls under the 2 week/2 hour limits. However, Steam support has been adamant to me and several friends that they cannot refund activated gifts under any circumstances [which is notable, since in my case and several of my friends, we were trying to refund solely because we'd bought a multiplayer game where multiplayer didn't work. Same day install and play, 20 minutes of trying to get it to work, and a refund request, and it was denied.]
Valve is..
..it's difficult to afford them even the slightest measure of respect, given the perpetually graceless manner of their conduct. :/
Of course, the real question is if it's Steam policies that are at all to blame, or if the entire issue is solely one of the now profoundly infamous lack of quality of Steam Support. After all, it's not they consider any other requests you send their way with any more respect, effort, or willingness to aid. :/
In other words, perhaps Valve does intend to abide by their FAQ- but if their support responds rudely with "this matter is now closed" any time you reference the FAQ (assuming they even reply to you on-topic), there's not really much you can do. :/
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I brought a nice new table from IKEA yesterday , I was going to put it together this mornin, but the bloke who made it, came and took it back.
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I had my dinner without a table for another night. :P
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A far more apt analogy would be:
"I ordered a table from IKEA. They asked me to come pick it up.
When I arrived, they told me that their distributor had come by and taken the table away."
And if you want to add in the sentiments of the thread:
"Fuck that distributor for having a disagreement with IKEA. That was the only table I wanted, but despite that I refuse to pay more for it elsewhere, or wait for it to go on sale again."
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In both analogy and actuality, a refund is a given, so your statement makes no sense whatsoever.
Especially since a refund is legally the purview of the party you're directly interacting with, meaning it falls on Bundlestars to provide (and then seek damages from the developer if they feel they have a case to do so). Likewise, as the entire purchase was not as advertised, it doesn't matter if they offer partial refunds or not, legally you've claim to a full refund. Should they not provide that, the blame is on BS, not on the developer.
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Yes but are people getting refunds? The discussions I read seemed to imply otherwise. I could be wrong, of course, but if they are getting refunds then there really is nothing to argue about and I refuse to believe even gamers can be that petty.
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Well, my point was that even if refunds weren't being offered, the complaints would- as per the analogy- make more sense to direct toward the store, rather than their distributors. For a retail store, we wouldn't even consider blaming the distributors, at least to start with, but here we have individuals in this thread that make a big fuss about how Bundlestars has to be entirely blameless and anyone making a case that there's no evidence yet against the developer's claims that they're blameless must be in league with them, a brainwashed fanboy/girl with stockholm syndrome who doesn't know any better.
Or, put another way:
Yes, humans are that petty [not to mention nonsensical and hypocritical].
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Well I find that particular debate to be pretty wasteful to be honest. Blame the developers. Blame Bundle Stars. Give either of them a reputation so bad nobody will ever buy from them again. What help is that to the customer that spent their money on something they no longer own? That customer deserves a refund. And if they get it, there's really nothing to argue about anymore. It's basically the same as the sale never having occurred in the first place, and nobody is ever under an obligation to sell you anything.
Yes, humans are that petty [not to mention nonsensical and hypocritical].
I guess I really should stop being surprised at this.
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I didn't bought that bundle, but I was considering to buy it. I managed to dodge a huge pain in the ass it seems.
But seriously, what right the dev has to revoke the unredeemed keys, that kinda sounds illegal. You can't sell someone a license and then just back up and not even give a refund, that's being a major asshole.
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You can't sell someone a license and then just back up and not even give a refund
you are kind of crossing your sales there a little. are we talking about the sale of the keys from the dev to the bundler? or the sale from the bundler to the customer?
not trying to defend any actions of anyone, just trying to get clarification of what you mean. because the seller of the keys would be bundlestars (bundler) and the purchasers may very well be eligible for refund from bundlestars, but that refund should not fall upon the developer who was not even the seller of the bundle.
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Well, both are to blame in this case. If bundlestars did include the game in the bundle without permission as the dev implies, then BS should be the one giving refunds.
But the thing is, if you are the dev of a game you should read what you are getting into before giving massive amounts of keys to a bundle site, I don't buy that he didn't knew what the keys were for. I mean sure, maybe the keys were supposed to for the store and not for bundles but aren't you supposed to sign a contract in that case, he should have read that in detail. I bet bundlestars had a vague wording on that thing in order to get away with this kinda moves but then the dev is also to blame because you can't just agree to something if you don't fully understand it.
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Superfabulous (or maybe not so) giant wall of text incoming!
I've already seen comments on it, but I'm thinking it should be an all or nothing approach. I don't know a whole lot about it from a developer standpoint, so just saying: Developers can revoke keys already used on Steam if they want to, unless of course they have no knowledge, or cannot gain any knowledge (based on the way BundleStars does those kinds of things, I would not know, but they sure got all the deactivated keys easy enough!) on which of their keys were actually used in this particular Killer 8 bundle. If they can or even want to figure out exactly which of their keys went into the bundles and were activated, then every single key that was used in the bundle, activated or not, should be removed or revoked from Steam users, since it was not part of the bundle, so no keys purchased as part of it should have been given out. The developer on Steam quoted, "We are not compelled to match the price in the bundle, and had no intention of offering that particular discount.", yet they offer people who were fast enough a free key! This is a gigantic hypocritical laugher! People got something that wasn't intended to be there. Why then, do people only get a limited time free pass to the game unless it is stated as being that way? Can't be half pregnant, if you get my drift.
I assume BS itself bought a ton of keys from them at an earlier time, then decided on their own which keys to add to KB 8 without a clear consent from the developer, or something? Sounds like somebody missed a vital piece of communcation here, or didn't read part of an agreement. Blind Mind Studios could probably work with BundleStars and find out which keys were activated as part of the bundle if they care that much about their game not being in the bundle. Somebody doesn't care, or both sides are avoiding something. Who cares about either side's reputation. It's already too late - you are toast - you messed up - accept it! Might as well save face and own up in a responsible way. I'd rather someone do the right thing, and not make some half-a$$ed attempt at it by creating early exemptions. For me, that makes both the developer and BundleStars look bad for not having the ability to fetch up every key in a timely manner, and revoke them all, so they are incompetent at either communicating with each other, or deciding to do a good job at making it the way it should have been originally before the bundle even came out. No Star Ruler 2 in the bundle... for anybody... period. After all, it wasn't supposed to be there, if I'm reading everything correctly... Making zero effort to grab every key makes both look bad to me in a moral sense, at their blatant inability to clean up what a mess was made. Fix it. I think BundleStars just didn't want to deal with a massive amount of people wanting their money back, so that's a huge part of why nothing was done with the activated ones, since the load would've been even bigger to refund transactions.
People purchasing and activating it quickly had an unfair advantage that others did not have. That wasn't part of the stipulations for buying this bundle (activate it in 3 days and get a bonus copy of Star Ruler 2, for instance). Not that I care much either way, aside from a responsibility and morality perspective here .. It's still a really good bundle. I have not bought the bundle yet, but I plan to. Who cares about PR when you're still pulling in a lot of money. You have a good bundle up. Take my money! It's hypocritical of me to say this, and I can admit that, which is a sign that I still have some sanity left, over complete denial. I refuse to boycott them, but hey, just because I want something (like a utopia, with no war, for instance), it's different to want it to happen and dream about it, and then compare that with reality. So, my complaint is more based on what I would want out of a company and a developer with dignity in a reasonably good world; the idealistic dream, vs. what the world has become all around me, the reality of things, in a general sense. It is up to each person to make choices that lead to other choices, and so forth. Making good ones puts us in better positions to have more good ones follow, or allow that good to ripple outwards. Making bad ones has the same effect, as in, "you reap what you sow".
Would be nice for BundleStars to do more, since a mistake was made here, and a game is not simply being removed... when you screw something up like this (which it's obvious they did by putting something up that wasn't agreeable to all sides, no matter where most of the fault lies), the price should drop more than just as if you take one game out. Like if I break somebody's window by accident, I don't just say, "Oh sorry!", and leave. I offer to fix the window I broke, and make amends! I guess not everyone is like that these days though... Guess I'll never know what happened really. Not really complaining, since I like the bundle still, and I think it is worth it. More about the principle of the thing here. Either it is as advertised for, or it isn't. When you go back on things, you look like the idiot, regardless... If it isn't as advertised, then you make the necessary changes as it would have been before creating the bundle. I just hope the rest of the games will stay in there (humorous undertones intended). Star Ruler 2 was not a game I was really interested in out of what the bundle has in the bundle, besides a +1. I would gladly pay the +.50 for a copy though, since I like a great deal, like people who got it and activated it earlier (ITAD lowest seems to be $9.99, so it's basically figuratively and literally a steal! at .50 - about to be lower than $9.99 when Star Ruler 2 puts their "actual" deal up for the .50 games everyone buying the bundle should get). Would have zero problem at all relinquishing my copy of the game, if it wasn't supposed to be in the bundle I got. Makes total sense to me... I will think twice before I buy anything by Blind Mind Studios.
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As I've said elsewhere, the "I didn't get it so everyone else should lose theirs as well" attitude is petty and childish.
The developer tried to get the game removed from the bundle over the last 3 days with no resolution from BundleStars. All they could do at that point is deactivate the keys to prevent further hemorrhaging, effectively forcing BundleStars to remove the game from the bundle completely. The developer decided not to punish those who had already activated the game by only revoking the unused ones. And they have stated that they will not take any money from the sales of the bundle. Therefore, they've just pretty much unwillingly made a giveaway of hundreds of copies of their game.
Can you imagine the shit storm they would have had to face if people had had their game removed from their libraries. People are willing to go to barricades for stolen keys being deactivated because they were "honest customers" that shouldn't be punished. The dev chose the method that would result in the less damage for everyone. While it does suck for those who didn't activate the game right away, at this point it's mostly a nice bonus for those who did.
Now, it's up to BundleStars to provide an acceptable resolution for the buyers as well as work things out with the dev.
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I don't care about the game... It is simply the principle. As I said in the previous post, I didn't even get the bundle yet, and it wasn't an important game in the bundle for me, so I don't care all that much really. I hope anyone that keep the receipts will get the keys as well if they can work with the developer. They seem rather "childish" themselves, but that is beside the point. I was simply looking big picture. It sucks no matter what.
Honestly I think it's even more childish to be upset when a game is revoked from your library that you weren't supposed to have in the first place. I was simply speaking from a character standpoint, and not PR. Everything these days is about how things look, rather than what is inside, which is what really counts to me. That's all...
By the way, those hundreds they gave away? They'll probably make a lot more on that 75% off sale! I hope it does poorly, and makes them wish they'd left it in the bundle, on one hand, but on the other I feel bad about the whole situation, and I never wish bad on anyone... Hard in this situation with so little info.
Bottom line: BundleStars sells hundreds of bundles and has not had many problems, if any. I think they know what they're doing by now... The developer probably had this coming, if they didn't read the proper guidelines, missed something in communication, or whatever the case is. For instance, on the threads, the had poor communication skills, so I tend to lean towards that being the ultimate culprit. People should make sure they understand what is going on before something like this happens. I know I'd check and double-check before a reseller got ahold of my keys if I were a developer. Just saying.
I think it all comes down to communication. That's my hypothesis about the whole issue so far... I understand all your points perfectly, and I definitely agree to an extent with a lot of it. I do appreciate it greatly - makes a good bit of sense. As a reseller BS will have to figure out how to "right the ship", so to speak. Thank you for sharing your own points. :D
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Did you guys get some sort of response by the support itself about this?
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I totally agree... i miss so much the old generations of videogames... we didnt even know who were making those games, they were awesome and we always get what we expected. Now there are many developers, publishers and owner of a AAA companies who have their own personal cult of followers as if this wasn´t a bussiness, but gods bringing their gifts to mankind XD
Still, this time it was a small mistake, the devs deserve a small kick in the butt, but not to be burned alive. If we go 100% rage on them, what should we do when things like Arkham Knight happen?
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im trying to stay neutral personally atm. eagerly waiting for both sides of the story. im one that still has the game on their account and am following this still to see if i should be leaving a bad review based on developer or not. currently its only one side of the story and imo no one should be judging anyone until both sides have said what happened. assuming bundlestars does comment anyways.
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The dev didn't screw up customers. He tried for 3 days to work things out with BundleStars but since there was no resolution in sight, he pulled the plug on the keys, forcing them to remove the game from the bundle.
And he did it in the less intrusive way possible, by only deactivating unused keys as to not penalize those who had already redeemed their key.
From this point on, it's up to BundleStars to provide an acceptable resolution for their customers.
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Yes, BundleStars sold key they weren't supposed to sell in the bundle... and now will have to provide resolution to their customers.
People pay for stolen keys on G2A as well, doesn't mean that they should keep them either.
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Of course not all keys sold here are stolen, but the principle stands. If a stolen key is fenced through there or any other place, it doesn't matter that the en-user has paid for it or not. It's easy to blame the dev for something that affects the customer, but it's the store that that sold the key that has to sort it out.
If I order a TV from Best Buy and I end up receiving an empty box, I take my complaint to the store, not the manufacturer.
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Yeah, I know what you meant... There are a lot of "grey market" shady things going on with g2a. I was kinda poking fun at it a little bit. There are some things on there that I wonder about... like how the heck can this or that game be so cheap if it's never been bundled, and the price is way lower than any sale price has been.
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Most cheap keys at G2A are legit. If you trace their origin you will find out they were obtained at a massive giveaway or bundles. Some companies made a lot of noise with shady claims on that website to cover their own mistakes that led to lower than acceptable G2A prices, i think that was totally unfair to G2A. I think progress will be made when the devs (small and AAA) place their effort in beeing carefull on every move instead of making others pay for their mistakes.
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Yep, I was "trolling" by making points that were valid to the discussion, and this one person kept targeting me. I wondered if they were related to the developer or something, as much as they were attacking and saying my opinion didn't matter. I certainly tried to give them respect, but some people can't see the forest for the trees... The log in their eye was too big to see the speck in mine so they could help me remove it. Maybe they were hoping to get some free keys for other games later if they did enough of that. I don't understand that logic if I'm not actively trying to break up the conversation or mess with people in a negative way. They were actually the ones trolling me. shrug People are strange....
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the arbitrary decision to revoke unclaimed keys makes me wonder why they did it, like
hey, these guys obviously don't mind if we remove the unredeemed keys!
if they didn't activate them, it means they aren't really interested in the game, right?
right?
...
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It's more about not alienating those who have already redeemed the game by deactivating all keys instead of just the unused ones.
Unfortunately, gamers as a community are often toxic. If they deactivated all keys they would have faced a much bigger backlash and probably a whole slew of negative reviews on Steam from disgruntled users.
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Not a fan that the dev used their power to revoke any keys. Short of Bundlestars stealing the keys from the devs, Bundlestars was given the keys to the game somehow... I think Steam should only allow keys to be revoked in very unusual cases of theft rather than giving devs the power to control what keys are active.
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Couldnt agree more. A few months ago, there was a publisher company asking G2A to tell them the keys that were selling under a certain value because they were "obviously" obtained through fraud (the keys belong to a certain game, that they failed to mention had been given away massively). The whole point was that this company suffered from credit card fraud and a massive chargeback (or so they say), and they couldnt tell wich keys were bought with stolen cards (wich sounds totally shady), so just because those keys were beeing sold for less than was convenient to them, they wanted to massively revoke them, under the sole argument that they were "obviously" obtained in a ilegal way. Sadly, the game im talking about was one of my favorites, and they paid the price of doing bussiness with that small publisher, that everybody was trying to defend (because they were small, and because people just dont like G2A).
Another incident i remember was that drunk wizards game, where the dev gave lots of keys to someone to start a giveaway, in the middle of the giveaway the dev got a deal to get the game in a bundle, but only if it wasnt previosly given away, and to solve the problem, the dev just revoked all the keys he gave to that guy doing the giveaway.
I really dont care about this particular incident, its just sad that this kind of mistakes from the side of the devs/publishers/sellers happens more often each time, and they always seem to end with people paying the costs by revoking keys in a totally original way each time.
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Has anybody consulted Steam support? I keep wondering if what the dev did is covered by their rules. They didn't claim the keys were stolen or received in other illegal ways. As far as I know, bundlestars is an official reseller. So how on earth can it be that they can revoke keys that no buyer could perceive as shady whatsoever?
I mean: I go buy bananas in the supermarket at a huge discount. The supermarket is no shady place, it's legit, and it has been there selling fruit for years. And it has a reputation for selling fruit at high discounts at times - something even the banana plantation their bananas came from most certainly knows.
Now the banana plantation claims they didn't mean to sell them on such a huge discount, and they feel generous enough not to claim back the ones I have already eaten, but they take back the ones I haven't eaten, yet? I'm rather sure that in my country and in most countries of the world, this would be illegal!
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Now the banana plantation claims they didn't mean to sell them on such a huge discount, and they feel generous enough not to claim back the ones I have already eaten, but they take back the ones I haven't eaten, yet? I'm rather sure that in my country and in most countries of the world, this would be illegal!
If that happened, I'd force them to take the ones I've already eaten too ;D
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Just wrote this in their forums, so gonna share it here too.
"Highly disappointed I bought this bundle expecting to get this game and my key is invalid. Since the game has been pulled, it would have been nice for all previous purchases to receive their keys. I understand the situation, but I paid with the intention of getting this game. I just wish a better action was used here for those who already purchased from the game devs.
It may not be your fault the game was in the bundle, but it was definitely not the buyers fault either and YOU made the choice to revoke it from us directly. So with that in mind, highly dissatisfied with this dev and hope you resolve this going forward for current purchasers. The action you took was not in the best interest of your fanbase, any backlash you receive is warranted."
I'm also curious if anyone has had success with contacting some support to resolve getting their unclaimed key.
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Excellent comment. This is my view of the situation too. Whatever is going on, the dev is the one deliberately harming their customers. A good business finds a way to resolve things without doing such a thing.
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They already included a 5% off thingy, so that'd be a bit strange. =P Not impossible, though.
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I just received a response to the email I sent over the weekend to Blind Mind.
"Apologies for the inconvenience. The difficulties with Bundle Stars have been resolved. Please contact Bundle Stars Support to request a replacement key."
I've now sent out a replacement key request to Bundle Stars. Still yet to be determined if I'll get a replacement. Just a heads up for everyone, I'd suggest doing the same as there hasn't been any other word from the dev.
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Sorry for multiple replies here! But the dev just confirmed this in Steam forums! :-)
http://steamcommunity.com/app/282590/discussions/1/355043117511869933/?ctp=18
"The issue has now, I believe, been suitably resolved. Soon, Bundle Stars will be issuing replacement keys in response to support requests."
Send a request to request a replacement if your key was voided!
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Just got an email that lays out the details for getting a replacement key. It was not in response to a specific support request, but was sent to all purchasers of the original bundle:
Are you having trouble redeeming your Star Ruler 2 Steam key?
Please note: If you have already redeemed your Star Ruler 2 key successfully, your game will not be affected and it will remain in your Steam library. Plus you can safely skip this email.Due to an unfortunate misunderstanding between Bundle Stars and the game’s developer, Blind Mind Studios, some customers have been unable to redeem Star Ruler 2 keys from the original Killer Bundle 8. We have been working diligently with the developer for several days to resolve this communication issue and prevent any of our customers from losing out.
If you receive a “duplicate key” message when you try to redeem your Star Ruler 2 key, then please accept our sincere apologies. Your Steam key was deactivated but you are eligible for a replacement. To request a working key for the game, you can visit http://bstars.co/support. Please include the following information in your message:
Your Killer Bundle 8 Order Number
(the 24-digit code on your Order Confirmation email)Your duplicate Star Ruler 2 Steam key
(Your old inactive key will be deactivated and you receive a new, working Star Ruler 2 Steam key)If you are eligible, please allow up to two working days for your key to be delivered.
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I'd really appreciate if they added it back to the bundle for anyone who purchased it :/ I got the bundle after the game was pulled out (didn't re-read everything before buying), i'll gladly add the 20c or whatever they shaved off the initial price :/
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I've got a new key from the Bundlestars support and successfully redeemed it on Steam.
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I thought this needed it's own separate topic because not everyone is reading the latest comments in Rachel's deal thread:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/EA4Yb/bundle-stars-killer-bundle-8
Because of a dispute or some miscommunication with Bundle Stars, Star Ruler 2 was pulled from Killer Bundle 8, and all unredeemed keys -- including those in already purchased bundles -- have been voided (keys that have already been activated on Steam are OK, and will not be revoked). Straight from the developer:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/282590/discussions/1/355043117511869933/#c355043117512016815
Because of this, if you have an active giveaway which contains a key from this bundle, you should delete it and contact Bundle Stars support for a resolution to this issue.
UPDATE (August 22): It appears that Bundle Stars and the developer have resolved their dispute, and replacement keys will be available:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/282590/discussions/1/355043117511869933/#c355043117522257089
UPDATE (August 23): Just got an email that lays out the details for getting a replacement key. It was not in response to a specific support request, but was sent to all purchasers of the original bundle:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bundlestars/discussions/0/355043117525162695/
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