I've been a musician for some time, playing guitar, bass and drums, but now since I have been getting more into electronic and industrial music (stuff like Throbbing Gristle, Front 242, Skinny Puppy) I'd really like to learn how to make it. I just don't know anything yet.
I have Reason Limited 1.5.3 and now one of these.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MPKmini2

Is it a big deal that my DAW (Reason) doesn't support VST plug ins? In fact I barely know what a VST does but it sounds like something I can use as 'instruments'. If so, are there any nicer and relatively cheap DAWs I could get?

Even if you wanted to recommend me new bands to listen to that would be awesome.

Gibbaway: https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/lW0cK/the-count-lucanor

6 years ago*

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:D

I'll have a couple of bits of input for you in a couple of days - right now, time is a little tight for me, and ive had a little bit too much wine!

but check out Chemlab in the meantime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj18x7MiS1Q&list=RDEM8vL36Xqo-y4abcOO_9iXDw

6 years ago
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I'm listening to Burn Out at the Hydrogen Bar now. This is really great stuff, thank you! I have had a bit too much whisky myself, :P Happy holidays to all of you!

6 years ago
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:D

6 years ago
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I can't help, but have a bump for Front 242!

6 years ago
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When I first heard Headhunter it was life changing. Thank you.I sometimes wish I was born 20 years earlier!

6 years ago
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Reason is (or at least was, when I still tinkered) pretty good, but you really are missing out if you can't use VSTs.
VST is a format for plugins. Plugins can be anything from virtual instruments to various sorts of effects. You can get VSTs that will mimic any instrument you can think of, you can get VSTs that are synths, you can get VSTs that provide distortion, echo, filter, whatever you can think of. Some of the best standalone music software also operates as a VST plugin to go directly into your DAW.

If you're coming from playing guitar/bass, I recommend Ableton. If someone's coming from the electronic side, I'd recommend FL Studios, which started as a simple sequencer and grew into a full DAW. Pro Tools and Steinberg are great if you have a full studio at your disposal, but they're more expensive and have a much steeper learning curve.

FYI you should try out the plugins from Ohm - you can thank me later

6 years ago*
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That's what it sounded like from reading up on wiki's but everything seems so vague until you try and use the software. Would Ableton Live 9 Intro be enough for my needs? I don't have much equipment, my day job is a scientist and I just do this as an outlet. Thank you for Ohm, I will definitely try those out. Ohm Studio looks cool too.

6 years ago
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I’m a few years out, so I don’t know what the latest versions are like. Ableton was designed with traditional musicians in mind, not electronics producers, so it’s pribably easier to get into. I didn’t know Ohm Studio existed until today, so I can’t discuss that. They started making plugins - and really amazing ones, best I’ve ever come across for really changing your sounds.
FL Studio started as fruity loops, a simple sequencer, and is very easy to use for someone who never picked up an instrument. But it’s a full-fledged studio that pros can be proud of.
Reason was originally made to mimic what a live electronic studio looked like, with consoles and wires and everything. I’m surprised it’s not VST compatible, I thought I remember plugging a moog simulator in there when I mucked about with it. People I know who were making EDM loved it when it came out, but I disliked the interface - it mimicked studio setups that were a matter of necessity rather than efficiency, and I wasn’t beholden to that kind of environment.
Likewise steinberg Cubase - it’s ye olde studio. Back then it was the granddaddy of em all (created VST), but its target user is/was sound engineers, not musicians.

6 years ago
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That overview was really helpful, you sold me on Ableton, I'm gonna start using the free trial of Live 9 and then if it feels lacking I'll try FL Studio. I double checked and Reason Limited definitely doesn't support plugins and I'd hate to commit to learning a gimped DAW. After looking at those Ohm plugins I definitely must try the Oddity (those synth sounds are right up my alley) and maybe the Minimonster.

6 years ago
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VST is pretty necessary, especially if you want to experiment and make experimental like the (great) bands you mentioned. That said, a lot of that music was made back in the 80s without all those fancy plugins. So for the time being, experiment with what you've got and maybe look into what techniques those bands used.

As far as other bands to listen to, Love's Secret Domain by the band Coil kind of changed the way I thought about music. The album starts of chaotic but stick with it. There's a method to their madness. Soliloquy for Lilith by Nurse With Wound is also pretty mind-blowing.

6 years ago
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But they were made using synthesizers, distortion pedals, filters, etc. that take up a lot of room and can be hard to find or expensive.
Why buy a moog when you can have a moog plugin?

6 years ago
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That's a fair point.

6 years ago
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It's also made these tones a lot more accessible as those older synths are coveted and super expensive. So I'm grateful :)

6 years ago
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Thank you for the music recommendations, I have heard alot about Nurse with Wound so that'll be next. I definitely don't want to ape a group's sound, I want to kind of integrate a little bit of everything I listen to (which is a wide variety) and get a unique sound from there. I thought it might be helpful to understand the synth sounds I am chasing, though.

6 years ago
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bumpity bump. Trying to learn Ableton Live still. If anyone wants to collaborate on Ohm Studio it looks like it's dead SW but still could be fun.

6 years ago
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VSTs are not recommended for electronic music production - They are absolutely necessary. Everything you'll do, you'll do using VST plugins and very rarely will you wander outside of their regular usage. In other words, VSTs are a necessity that you should absolutely not overlook.

VST plugins are basically whatever emulates a synthesizer or instrument, or more often than not, a collection of them. The DAW allows for the recording, editing and replaying of VSTs via a piano roll, but only if you have them - A DAW alone is not very useful without any VSTs when it comes to electronic music (although most DAWs come with pre-installed VSTs). You can find many free VSTs, some of which I can recommend if so you wish - just let me know - but as with anything, if you want complexity and quality, you'll have to pay for it.

In electronic music production you're more likely to use VSTs to create your own sounds - They do come with presets in most cases, but if you don't know much about VSTs and virtual instruments, now would be a good time for that as 80% of your time will be spent sound engineering, if you truly want to get the perfect sound for your music. Of course, it depends what exactly you're going for, but chances are you'll want to learn your way around making your own sounds with your newly acquired synthesizer VSTs.

As for a good DAW, I use FL Studio myself, and recommend it. It's a bit pricey though, so unless you have money to spend or a ship and a crew (if you know what I'm saying) it can be a bit hard to acquire for a newly starting producer/composer.

6 years ago
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The more I read, the more I am getting the impression that VSTs are essential, you're right. Therefore I conclude Reason Limited is thoroughly useless crap. I am going to try Reaper side by side with Ableton, it's very reasonably priced and many seem to rave about it. https://www.reaper.fm/index.php
As far as good, free plugins, what do you recommend? I'm going to save up a bit and buy the Ohm Force Oddity plugin. My keyboard came with a couple (Wobble and Air Hybrid 3).

6 years ago
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I'm not absolutely sure what kind of music you'll be producing, but for electronic music, here are my suggestions:

VST Pros Cons
Mastrcode's T-Force Alpha Plus Easy to learn, great sound, many options, can do mostly anything you need without overwhelming you with too many settings. Loves to munch on your CPU at an alarming rate. Keep the release knob low, and limit repeated use of T-Force (don't stack multiple tracks with T-Force) to reduce usage. I usually use T-Force for 1-2 simultaneously playing instruments at most.
Archetype Instruments' Lokomotiv Like T-Force, but much simpler. Extremely easy to use, has 3 oscillators with waveform and mix controls for each, one LFO, a pitch control and drive/amp, and one filter/envelope. Very limited due to its simplicity, but can still achieve a great sound.
Pekka Kauppila's MauSynth Good presets, lots of options, great sound, nice UI. Slightly more advanced, needs some experimenting before you'll get the hang of it.
Togu Audio Line's TAL N0IzE M4K3R Great presets, good sound, many options Confusing UI and settings. I don't use it much though, maybe I'm just not used to it.
Togu Audio Line's TAL-Elek7ro Great sound, many good presets, nice UI, allows for easy experimenting and editing your sound. Somewhat limited. Only 2 OSC.
Tone2's Firebird Simple, flexible. Few but focused options with a good UI. Huge amount of very nice presets. Fantastic for easy arpeggiating. Aside from a basic customizable arpeggiator, you probably won't have use for it due to its limited options.
Variety of Sound's EpicVerb High quality reverb effect VST with lots of options but a simple UI. Can't think of any.
Audio Damage's Rough Rider Huge compressor to give your sound that super extra "oomph". Great for drums that are missing that "everything is blowing up and it's good" feel. Extremely simple to use, great UI. Perhaps a bit simple and limited, but I'm just nit-picking at this point. It does the job and it does it well.

I have many more VSTs, but I went with whatever I've used the most in the past. Considering you're going for industrial style, maybe I have a few more things the recommend... the problem is I've never actually tried them myself.

Here's a website you may be interested in, as it's where I found most of my free VST. That place is like the internet's library of free VSTs - Have fun: http://www.vst4free.com/

6 years ago
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Thanks man. I love that site, I'm particularly excited to try out the N0IzE M4K3R and the T-Force. Another question, I like the sounds of old EBM and these synths seem nice for that purpose. http://www.novakill.com/others.htm
However, since they won't work when I place them in my plugins folder, I think they are 32-bit and I am running a 64 bit DAW. Have you ever used bridging software?

For anyone who's following this for their own info, this looks promising, it's like a more fully featured Ohm Studio. https://soundbridge.io/

6 years ago*
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I tried messing around with bridging, but it tends to glitch out and cause fuck ups so I typically stick to everything 32-bit (FL Studio 32-bit as well as all of my VSTs). FL Studio comes with both versions, but pretty much every VST I use (especially older or free ones) were and are 32-bit so I stay away from 64 at the moment.

6 years ago
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Nice thread, thank you to all contributors with the excellent info! I've been out of the music making loop for a while, but have been a long time user of FL Studio / Fruityloops. As an aside, Image-Line is a pretty great company if you decide to check it out. I purchased a license about 20 years ago when they were just starting out -- they promised lifetime free upgrades for around $20 back then and they've totally made good on that as all these years later I still have access to the vastly improved Producer Edition that now retails for $199.

6 years ago*
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