Alanis Morisette?
Find me one free country, just one, and I'll move there. xD
Wow, Greece has internet freedom? I didn't know that. That's why they imprisoned a Greek guy with a facebook page that was mocking a so-called "saint"? Ffs, they arrested him for blasphemy. What's next? Will they burn him for witchcraft? xD Here's the wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_Pastitsios
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Me cago en el rey y en la reina, monarquía hijos de puta. O lo que es lo mismo, no sois mas tontopollas porque no entrenáis
#WeAllAreThatGuy
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Back in the medieval times. xD Bring the pitchforks and start burning witches. xD
In Greece, we have so many religious fanatics though. There was a public outcry against the facebook page called Elder Pastitsios. Do you have many supporters of the monarch in Spain? Was there a public outcry against the person that spoke against him?
We Greeks don't deserve the green colour, MrCastiglia. :/
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They can all go fuck themselves and anyone who supports the Spanish monarchy is either dumb as fucking rocks or literally medically braindead.
Half the familiy are thieves, the other half mentally challenged and sprinkle in some murders too here and there.
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Here in Venezuela there has been people already in jail just for an opinion in Twitter, no matter how offensive it may have been it shows a clear lack of freedom. In Spain, for what I know, politics are the typical corrupt douches, because of that Podemos is getting more popular around there.
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Well, I guess drawing funny pictures of something that some people believe in gets those people angry. Im atheist so I wouldn't know what it actually feels like for example to see a mocking picture of God, Allah, patriarch, prophet or whatever, but I can imagine what I would do if someone mocked my family member.
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If someone mocked your family member? What are you, 13? Grown ups don't go on global jihad because they were offended!
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So if I draw a picture of your mother with all kind of names all around it and publish it in a well-known magazine you'll be fine? There will be your name and address and all, so that everyone knows whose mother we're talking about, and #prank. That cool then? Cause the way I see it #prank makes it a joke. Would you not sue the company? Well, people from arabic countries won't win any law suit against European, especially French companies, so they have a right to be angry. And terrorists are everywhere, even in your country - whatever that is.
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I think you have it backwards - when 'anti-Islam' cartoons are published, they do not include names and addresses. It is the offended Muslims who release the cartoonists personal details. If you were to draw a picture of my mother with names I would say that is your right under free speech laws - you have the right to your opinion and to make that opinion a matter of public record - and not under the pretense of a prank. Would I sue you for that? no... I would not - because I believe in personal freedoms. If you threatened me with violence - like the Muslim response to political cartoons then I would expect you to be arrested as you do not have the freedom to threaten my safety.
If the cartoon is about my Mother or Islam or Christianity or Donald Trump - it makes no difference, a violent reaction or threats of violence is not acceptable in a civilized nation.
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Of course, the best part of a civilized nation and people is that we can agree to disagree ;) I hope that you will enjoy my WL!
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Here you go, pavepode! Don't take it personally.
http://www.laughfactory.com/jokes/yo-momma-jokes
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How's that Freedonia thing people were doing in Cophenhagen?
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Find me one free country, just one, and I'll move there. xD
+1 As long as there is a government and laws, a country is not truly free (actually, one can even argue that as long as there is a country, it's never entirely free). Actually, I personally probably won't move to an entirely free country, since that's probably not the savest thing ever...
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Yeah, and let's not forget our nation building, where we manipulate other countries' elections and support authoritarian governments because we think it will help our interests. We put guys like Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, and Gaddaffi in power then go and assassinate them when they stop being our puppets.
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It will be great when we vote the bums out. Trump2016.
If America was really so censored, I wouldn't be able to type: Obama is a loser who does nothing but golf and Hillary is a corrupt racist who works both aisles of white and black power groups.
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Trump leading the US? God save us all! Oh, sorry, lapse of reason: forgot i'm an atheist. Whatever save us all!
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Surveillance =/= censorship. Reporters sans frontières has the US on the list because of their surveillance practices and the threat that RSF feels that poses to reporters who work with sensitive sources who may already be in danger because of speaking to reporters, and who speak on condition of anonymity.
However, the US does not "have the same level of freedom as North Korea or Cuba" as you so hyperbolically stated. To quote the very wikipedia article you linked, "In contrast to much of the rest of the world, where ISPs are subject to state mandates, most content regulation in the United States occurs at the private or voluntary level."
The only content that the US government blanket censors is child pornography, though there have been instances of the US raiding and taking down domains and servers of certain websites that were viewed as criminal enterprises. One of these was the attempted takedown of the Piratebay. If the US government censored like North Korea, or Cuba, or China, then you would be unable to access the Pirate Bay inside US borders, because there would be blocks that would filter out the data and report you for attempting to access a forbidden website. Strangely enough, I can type in "Pirate Bay" in google, and have it come up as the first result.
TL;DR: Facts are your friends. Not hyperbolic statements.
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Actually, yes and no. I mean, let's say Assange who's currently living on the Venezuelan (Ot was it Ecuatorian?) embassy because of the things he published as he's afraid of prosecution.
Also, surveillance is a form of censorship, I mean, it's not a straightforward one, but it is nonetheless. If the communications are heavily policed, or if you have a Stasi offcicer in your apartment block, you'll be walking on eggshells as to not be flagged.
Not to mention other non intuitive ways of censorship as can be net neutrality, I mean let's imagine the following situation. I am POTUS, I don't like a news outlet because they outed me on something, or simply they are pushing an agenda I don't like, I can call my friend the Comcast/Verizon/Time Warner CEO (who likely was involved on funding my campaign) and tell them, as net neutrality is not guaranteed, that they should thottle access to that said web. The website is now irresponsive and slow as fuck and it will eventually die.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much and I should get a tinfoil hat, but I honestly think that, also those hyperbolic statements where simply some licenses I took, to not make a boring wall of text.
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Point 1: Assange is currently avoiding extradition to Sweden for allegations of rape, not because of the things he published, for one. For two, Wikileaks published a large number of top secret American military and espionage documents, some of which included active missions in the field, thus putting lives of American soldiers and espionage agents at risk. So, if he were to be extradited to the United States as he claims will happen if he is extradited to Sweden, it would be under charges of espionage, not because of censorship. Just like Russian spies who stole military and espionage information in the 40s-90s were, he would be considered a foreign national actively working against the interests of the United States government and be treated as such. The fact that he hides under the umbrella of "freedom of information" and "freedom of the press" does not negate the fact that he put information about military and civilian government operations out where anyone from your average Joe to ISIS could access it and thus put government employees in harm's way. That is espionage, even if it was unintentional, which is debatable.
Point 2: A Stasi officer in the apartment block is a very overt form of surveillance. None of the surveillance on the internet in the United States is overt. Communications are not "heavily policed". There may be surveillance in place, but the majority of the population does not and will not see any results of that, because much of the surveillance is targeted at counter-terrorism and major crimes, not the smaller things ordinary people might do on the internet. If it were more actively targeting individuals, there would be a lot fewer instances of child molesters and pedophiles luring their victims online.
Point 3: I actually agree with this point, which is why I am an active supporter of Net Neutrality and laws that would prevent ISPs and other private - note, private means non-government, therefore their actions are not government censorship - organizations from interfering in the equality of information access on the internet.
Point 4: If you honestly think that the citizens of the United States have as much censorship and as little online freedom as Cuban or North Korean citizens, then I don't think you've ever visited the United States or done your due diligence in research. If a Cuban or North Korean citizen says something online against the government, then they know they are risking being arrested. If I, as a United States citizen living in the United States, say something online against the government, the worse I risk is an internet argument on Facebook or a message board with someone who disagrees with me. I will not be arrested, I will not be reprimanded, nor will I lose my job or job opportunities. In fact, if I were fired simply because I said something critical of the government, I could sue the company that fired me over political discrimination, and I would likely never have to work again.
TL;DR: Check your facts. Hyperbolic statements simply make you look like a conspiracy theorist who failed to do the most basic of research, not someone who "simply took some licenses".
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Hmmm... Where does your map come from, OP?
Look at the Reporters Without Borders Wikipedia page for a suspiciously similar map, but this one does paint the US in the same light as North Korea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders
Where is the key at the bottom of your map to show what it is actually saying?
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That's the World Press Freedom Map, not the internet freedom map. I mean, if you click on the image it shows where it was taken from in this wee bar on your browser.
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the map you showed is available on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_by_country
Note that it doesn't differentiate between censorship and surveillance.
The U.S. ins listed as pervasive because it "is engaged in mass surveillance of the Internet"
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I'm not so sure about this. Is overwhelming the legal pressure the US (and other countries) have been putting on trying to control/restrict/penalize content in the web. And with all the wikileaks/Snowden thing we know only the surface of their surveillance operations. Although they maybe ever won't control the totality of the net, they sure have ways to interfere it.
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There was this term I heard of, how was it called? Net neutrality? Not all censorship is active censorship.
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The problem is , without net neutrality, they inspect the packets and limit the speed for that (What happened on netflix ) .
So netflix had to pay them for faster speed . That is a form of censorship .
I will probably never check a site loading at 1kb/s
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It's not government censorship, it's corporate. And it's not about content, it's about money. The ISPs want more money, and they're going after the biggest content providers, on a "pay us or else" scheme.
It's not censorship so much as it is extortion
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Exactly. It's nowhere near censorship. The logic behind that argument is akin to saying your cable company is censoring you because they don't give you HBO with your basic cable plan.
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I'll c/p what I wrote above.
Not to mention other non intuitive ways of censorship as can be net neutrality, I mean let's imagine the following situation. I am POTUS, I don't like a news outlet because they outed me on something, or simply they are pushing an agenda I don't like, I can call my friend the Comcast/Verizon/Time Warner CEO (who likely was involved on funding my campaign) and tell them, as net neutrality is not guaranteed, that they should thottle access to that said web. The website is now irresponsive and slow as fuck and it will eventually die.
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sorry, but, you're wrong.
I'm more than happy to debate, but, you really need to check your sources
ps it's called confirmation bias: you read articles that support your position, and interpret articles in a way that most supports your position
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I don't know what are you trying to imply. I read several news outlets (Al Jazeera, RT, Washington Post amongst others ) and I form my own opinion
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You're wrong man, just admit you're a sensationalist who either doesn't know, ignores, or warps the facts.
They best part about your baseless argument is you provide ZERO examples -- a clear sign of opinion and not fact.
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No it's not. It appears you must be vastly undereducated and have no comprehension of what examples are.
For example, an example would be something like, "For example, China blocks all internet content related to Tibet whereas USA doesn't block any form of political content."
Your op and all your posts are filled with subjective conclusions based on broad speculative comparisons to other countries that are incredibly different and rather incomparable if you asked anyone with knowledge of internet censorship. Alas, everyone can see the troll through your idiocy, but your ignorance is still apparent.
Stay in school kiddo, it seems like you really need it.
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The claim bit overrated, to be honest. Access is pretty broad, and only very malicious sites are blocked usually; I've never heard of a site that's popular in any other country that's blocked here. Now, there are a lot of restrictions on sites that carry "illegal" content, such as torrents (not that that stops us) and child pornography (not that that stops us either T_T) but most sites are unfiltered; you're probably being watched while you use them though. :3
But honestly, the US isn't that bad because we're free socially, politically, and economically online (unless we want to, like, involve Iran or North Korea, in which case, that's why we're on the list), so this is more of a political smear than a valid attack.
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Not news to me. I love my country; our government, not so much. They've been steadily eroding our freedoms for the last...well, quite a while. Things started going downhill way before my time, in 1913 when congress enacted the federal income tax in 1913, and Woodrow Wilson signed the federal reserve act, which allowed a private organization to control and manipulate our currency (boo!).
Things really got worse under Bush (Jr), when he used 9/11 and terrorism to really sign away the rights of the people by enacting legislation such as the "Patriot" Act [sic], allowing mass surveillance of the American people and getting rid of a lot of pesky little things like warrants and checks and balances. If you thought things were going to get better under Obama's administration, guess again: he massively expanded the surveillance dragnet operated by agencies such as the NSA, DHS, FBI, CIA. He signed more lovely legislation such as the NDAA, or National Defense Authorization Act. This allows the US to indefinitely detain someone without trial, just because they're suspected of terrorism. Let that one sink in.
It's not all doom and gloom though, there are some silver linings. The NSA revelations of Edward Snowden brought mass surveillance to the public eye, and even if it hasn't stopped their spying they have to be a bit more tactical about it. Companies such as Apple and Google (Android) are putting encryption in their devices as standard (much to the chagrin of the FBI, who maintains that you only need privacy and security if you have something to hide, which of course is a complete load of BS). Technologies like Tor and bitcoin are becoming more popular.
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I'm kinda getting a feeling that you're just a troll :').
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Whoa, this guys facts go against the belief and indoctrination I got that my country is the most bestest in the world, he must be a troll
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sorry, my country isn't even the US but you seem like a toxic person. Just saying :)
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Can you actually address anything I mentioned on th Op, or provide some facts to prove your point? Or are you gonna keep posting empty buzzwords and ad hominems?
Say hi to Ph.D. Lyte on my behalf.
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well you're confirming what I wrote :'). Just read what jonlevir wrote.
You just seem to skip his statement. Selective response behavior is showing.
If you're gonna spout toxic nonsense again, just don't answer.
That's why Poilitics shouldn't be allowed on steamgifts. Just my two cents.
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I'm talking about Internet on an Internet site, Internet that we use to play, download games and so on. This content shouldn't be allowed? Mfw. Also maybe I'm typing on my phones touchscreen and I cba to write a bible addressing his post. But whatever, also still you haven't shown any ability of forming your own arguments apart from attaching me personally, but I am the troll. Whatever dood, whatever.
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But isn't censorship related to surveillance? You first have to watch what your people do to control them, and afterwards, you go back to the surveillance phase for feedback about your control measures (if they went well, or if they didn't cause the wanted effect and you need to adjust control again to change a behaviour).
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When other people are fed propaganda it's totally obvious.
When you're raised from a baby in propaganda yourself, it's not so obvious.
Laughably naive Western Europeans who just 10 years ago couldn't understand why Americans never trust government are now beginning to understand - government is not your friend and protector. Government is your pimp and you've been in an abusive relationship this whole time.
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That's just a different form of propaganda.
Everyone loves government when it works (or, at least the parts that work)
I'm happy when the government builds nice roads, and airports, and fire departments. I'm a lot less enthusiastic when government wastes money on political favors or starts unnecessary wars
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and his brother was responsible for putting dates on perishable foods, so what?
I don't have an owner. I also don't live in Western Europe. And you also aren't capable of reading or understanding.
To repeat for the cheap seats: there are things government does that they do right, and everyone is happy to benefit from it. There are things government does wrong and nobody likes. and there's plenty of things government does half-assed, or that government does but only some people benefit from, and some people like those things and some don't.
People never really complain when government works in their favor, only when it doesn't work in their favor. If you really dislike your government, you could try moving to a place that doesn't really have one, like Somalia, and see if you prefer it there
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That's a common argument but Somalia has multiple groups claiming to be governments, not a lack of government.
Have you compared the budget of what your government spends on things you oppose vs things you support?
In the US, the government has a 13% approval rating but we're supposed to be a representative democracy.
Obviously we're not if 87% of citizens disapprove of what the federal government is doing.
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Government in the US is broken. But that doesn't mean everything they do is fucked
The problem is that the US government wasn't designed for a political class, and the emergence of career politicians has morphed the system into one that tewatrds inefficiency
But that doesn't mean it's impossible to have a better government (having lived in multiple countries, I can assure you that There is a lot of room for improvement)
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Just take bleach. Make it quick or you'll torture your brain :P
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Msnbc is quite liberall, cnn is left of center, for is quite conservative
I found the only reliable way to get the news is to read multiple sources, to get both sides of the story (or, at least, to get the story. Each network chooses which stories to ignore )
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I don't know, I traveled to the US with my laptop, everything was fine, I could use Facebook and all the other sites I used to frequent in my green country. My sister is currently in China, her laptop mysteriously broke on the way there (and it was a lenovo action thingy, able to take a fall). We're pretty sure they swiped it when it arrived there and they went a little overboard or something (it looked okay, just won't turn on anymore - and she'd downloaded a thing to use FB while in China, can't use it now). Oh, and of course, no Facebook (I know they have their own version(s), but it's not really the same when it's just within the country).
In conclusion, I don't think all red countries are the same.
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Well, if you give out sensitive information there, that's on you (not sure they require more than any name and a working e-mail address?). I don't use it much anymore, just to keep up with people who still do. And "social experiments" sounds a bit harsher than what it is ...
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Social experiment ... That is what it is. Compare data of millions on a subject of Facebook's choice from a pool of a billion+ vs a psychology graduate with sample sizes of a few thousand from a narrow range. They require mobile phone now to stop fake accounts.
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Again, if you agree to the ToS* and give them information you don't want them to use, that's on you. Either way, I'm pretty sure that's not the reason it's banned in China, so it's not exactly relevant here. I just mentioned FB as an example of something that's allowed in one red country but not in another, addressing the fact that OP seems to think they all have exactly the same restrictions.
* and before you say "nobody reads them and they know it", I usually do, to check for hidden costs and whether or not certain data will be given out to any third parties (although some "companies" blatantly lie about not giving out information).
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I did contract law once and terms and condtions are usually complex or exhaustive for a reason :)
http://www.radiolab.org/story/trust-engineers/
if your interested. Yeah my country UK is THE surveillance state in the world. USA due to its vast size geographically doesnt compare :)
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Hate to break it to you, but every time you go into the doctor's office they log stuff in your record. Researchers can then use that data in aggregate to see if there's correlations to any diseases with BMI, medications, etc. Do you object to that?
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I worked in a lab with clinical samples. The data you refer to never came I.e blood samples with names and house addresses but random patient numbers. Yours is a strawman argument I'm talking about a private company making mass profit off of your data through marketing etc. Pharmaceuticals would cream themselves for the sample size of Facebook with all your medical info ... Which would never be allowed.
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I currently do research at a hospital. The "random patient numbers" you refer to is actually their Medical Record Number (MRN) which is Protected Healthcare Information, so it falls under HIPAA as it can be linked to your name, birth date, SSN, etc. It is valuable data, and hospitals get fined if it's handled improperly.
Yours is a strawman argument I'm talking about a private company making mass profit off of your data through marketing etc.
You realize that pharmaceutical companies can track the prescribing patterns of a physician, and later ask the physician why they aren't prescribing their brand name drug? Arguably they have more access to data about the patient than what I have. All I can access is what is in the patient's record, but they can find out what the patient is doing when the leave the doctor's office.
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Yes I knew a scum bag aka rep who sells to doctors and takes them on nice dinners. It takes some effort and knowledge with potentially no ethics to make use of medical data. Facebook has a billion zombies who sleepwalk into handing over personal data using "social proofing" against them. The influence on society and freedom is more severe unless insurance or banking industries get your genetic data and predispositions in the future to assess you.
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censorship? hardly, unless its illegal activities.
lack of privacy? certainly, but all other countries govt wish they had the same. and some do.
media control? yes, there is too heavy of control on news media, however very little on social media (again, as long as it is not illegal activities)
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What country is it going going be confused with, honestly?
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The United States of America (USA), commonly referred to as the United States (U.S.) or America,
If you're gonna be a pedantic snob, at least do it right.
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Además que tanto en castellano como en inglés, nos podemos referir a los Estados Unidos de América, como América. Y ya no sólo porque lo recoja la RAE (que son un poco bobetes, además que no soy fan del determinismo lingüístico) si no porque lo puede hacer como sinécdoque que es un tipo de metonimia. Es decir referirse a una parte (los EEUU) por el todo (América). Es como cuando dices, "Vino la policía" no vino toda la policía, si no los 4 o 5 que había por allá.
Pero no, sieeeeeeeeeeeeempre tiene que saltar alguien a corregirlo. En fin, Pilar. Qué le vamos a hacer.
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You seem to be confusing censorship and surveillance
There is very little censorship over the Internet in the US, but it is subject to heavy surveillance. That's not the same thing at all.
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https://www.rt.com/op-edge/341905-nsa-us-leaks-terrorism/ not the least bit worried about the surveillance lol they don't have the AI to crunch the data.
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Sure they're busting people but I'm betting most of that didn't come directly from internet intel and likely only makes up a small portion of evidence used. More likely is people being more inclined to report on others no matter how small...human intel is still the most dangerous...eyes and ears of your neighbors are more likely to bust your activities than your computer still. Just don't think they have the comb for the sand yet.
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http://www.zdnet.com/article/nsa-hunger-demands-29-petabytes-of-data-a-day/ This much data give or take apparently(and that's 2 years ago)? Yeah algorithms are good at sorting it all out...but AI could also act on the parsed data faster...which is where it'll likely lead and why I made that jump.
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in america nothing is FREE, maybe death...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc
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So, I was trying to self-teach me a crash course in network security the other day and one thing led to another and I ended up on the Reporters sans frontières website, I was surprised to see that the United States of America, land of the brave and free, oh say can you see etc etc, is an Enemy of the Internet.
And you know, it kinda shocked me a wee bit, I mean, for a country who regards so highly individual liberties and hates meddling of the state (I mean, it's [$current year%] and they don't even have a proper National Healthcare system cos muh freedom and why should I pay for hobos to get treated) to be so heavily policed.
You can have a look at the wikipedia articles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_States , or simply call your local Blue Coat Systems representative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Coat_Systems)
I mean, look at the linked image
How does it feel to have the same freedom on the internet as established, worldwide hated and mocked dictatorships such as North Korea? Or as the Cuban commies?
It's a bit like rain on your wedding day, or a free ride when you've already paid.
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