What do you think?
Technically, it's not drugs, it's a honest, truthful mind cluster that became even more apparent in recent years.
On note, I'm not saying that I'm for either, I'm saying that I want to see people taking a side. But I can't influence opinions, because I can't make them think the other way. What I want however, is a system that makes sure both will have fun; the rich will remain rich, but without heavily damaging the poor, while poor will turn into non poor people, who can make right choices and without needing constant help, especially if they have no friends or no way to satisfy themselves. Games are 1 of the way to satisfy, but not everyone has money for paid games, or time for F2P MMO/online games.
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I don't take sides I just don't buy crap like Far cry 5 but will buy Stardew Valley and will buy again TW3 on GOG ...
Also put the GOTY edition of F4 that was 110 Euro ... what Goty you say but 2015 was TW3 year winning 257 of those :)) !
Also sorry but that INGIE market on Steam is crap and Steam's policity to have more crapy games on Steam is worst !
A good system should be put in steam !
Let them have the first game for free put there on Steam!
If you have below 70%(at least 100 reviews ) on users and below 60 on meta then the next game should cost 100 to put on steam and so one 200$, 300$, 500$ , 1000$ etc !
And the maybe we will get rid of crap games !
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I'm sorry, but I can only offer my reaction to your post.
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I guess you need to take your time reading before making TLDR; ???.
Well, I guess, but having always happy/saying that everything is cool is not the way a actual person can live. Nothing against, just saying. But fact is a fact. No one can deny facts. And yet, I still see people who are against me; I got more and more people who don't want to listen to "truth". I complained about Digital Homicide in the past, and guess what? I got blacklisted by people who think that shovelware should exist...Including the worst developer himself, not a single person, but a duo; they are Romine Brothers. They are Loot Toot now, advertising crappy games made by other developers...They should crash and burn for good...They are one of diseases of gaming that try to leech off innocent poor and rich. By lying and silencing them off.
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Gonna make a serious response this time.
saying that indie game genre should die off, and if you don't want to die, you should join/be absorbed by AAA studios
EA absorbed and killed studios to point where creative talent is no longer recoverable, while people say it's for great good...
How many people say that and how many of those are AAA shills?
In addition, they want for a fee to publish a game be massively increased, for example from current 100$ for Steam into 5000$ or even millions, saying that will shovel off "asset flips" and shovelware, while also implying that games should be a luxury that only the billionaires or simply the best/favored ones can enjoy, not as works of art and honesty.
I don't think this is a matter of them thinking "poor people deserve nothing good", but people simply not understanding that this in itself would not solve the main issue with shovelware. Valve is just too lazy to implement actual quality control.
they want other countries be completely destroyed from gaming market, like saying that Russians, Ukrainians, Polish and other "third world countries" should be removed completely from the gaming industry!
???
While also saying that Unity, RPG Maker engines and others should die in favor of those who can pay 5000$+ like EA, Ubisoft and AAA companies.
Unity and RPG Maker's problem is mostly that most people associate them exclusively with crap, while not aware of good things made in them. Ori and the Blind Forest is an example of a Unity game that I enjoyed, and was surprised that it was made in that engine. Good YT video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBFZ1KR8oVE
My original post was cheeky in tone, but I honestly can't see what you're trying to say. You talk about income inequality, companies making stupid decisions on regional pricing, national chauvinism, shovelware, AAA, high SG contributors, and I struggle to see logical connections.
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It seems people don't get it; the absurd points I posted are, yes, made by real folk, who believe that yes, quality control should be VERY strict, either you have money and previous work or you are goner, that indies are not viable genre, and think that EA is not evil/similar points. The topic I actually was heavily based to point I made this as "spiritual successor" is https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/yfloO/what-do-you-think-of-the-idea-of-stealing-from-the-rich-and-giving-it-to-the-poor , which was too one sided at best; it had only 2 options, and most said that rich deserve most, if not all money they got. And I thinked, is there's a good middle ground, that makes sure that neither will be too wrong about each other?
And I'm relying on you, people who can actually discuss, criticize, offer solutions and great options. Some of them may be violent, some of them peaceful, some of them being most balanced and perfect middle ground.
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the problem is your wording, the wall of text has no structure to it.
i understand the words, but i did not understand your point. what do you want to say exactly?
also AOT2 seem to have +50% pricing for some countries, what is your point?
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My point is that they literally think that they should charge everyone if they were "american", AKA ignoring regional pricing, and instead setting prices based on current money exchange rates for countries. Not only that affects "poorer countries", especially with lower salary overall, but since GTA V costs 30$ under current exchange rate, people would rather buy 2 GTA V copies instead of 1 overpriced 60$ game that costs in their country 120$. If they really want to sell to poorer countries under current exchange prices, they would either readjust the price, OR ban the game sales in poorer countries to prevent those negative complains on pricing.
See, that's not hard to figure what I call out on that being stupid. Same applies to indie devs who think they can get away with that. They'll see backlash on their forums. Or they just ban countries. Depends on how greedy/dishonest they are.
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well, ive only seen few games with unfair or no regional pricing. Steam normally have them by default and the developer get to choose to adjust them or remove them. and thats why steam is enforcing regional restrictions now
In the end the developers have every right to ban and price the game as they want, it happens to all media platform. it might be stupid for business but its his right
And the consumer will always find a way to be entertained, ever wonder why F2P and Piracy are very popular?
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Games are priced based on what we're willing to spend on the best experience. Indie games exist because they couldn't get AAA funding and support. If people support certain developers and practises, that's their right. Games should be functional and developers genuine, but at the end of the day people vote with their wallet and with too much regulations we wouldn't have a lot of entertaining games.
Not sure what your point it, but gaming is both entertainment and a luxury hobby and in no way a necessity. If you can't afford to spend $60 on a game, don't. I couldn't afford that. I save up a couple of bucks each month for bundles and use sites like Tremor and Swagbucks to support my gaming hobby. With little effort I have enough entertainment for years. If I want an AAA game I'll usually have to wait for either a bundle or a holiday, but it doesn't matter. I could buy a DVD box or a game or I could stream content or watch playthroughs. I make an effort for a better experience, but in the end it's my responsibility only how I treat my hobby and entertainment. And to each their own.
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Thanks for being the first to honestly get on point at least.
Of course games are not a necessity, but the fact they can offer more than just art and entertainment, like Esports, proves that they aren't just here; they are one of reason why industry is on them. What's next, real life simulation VR games? Military trainers? Only future can prove. I'm fine with prices, especially compared to the past, but what I'm not fine, is people taking the system into "buy your way so you don't have to grind", instead of offering utility that you can earn for hard work for free in F2P games, or "fee to pay", that also allows buy your way in, but offering no utility, just for example better guns/characters/orcs for you. Meaning that those predatory practices still exist, and they aren't a good sign for the future.
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Because sports is sports and entertainment is entertainment?
(Yeah I know, no need for a snarky reply, this does not make sense. But that is often how stuff is categorized, e.g. see any newspaper or magazine in the history of almost ever)
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Small correction:
Indie games exist because they couldn't get AAA funding and support.
Not necessarily, there are many different reasons to avoid the big investment route. For many it started as a hobby, and they want to keep it that way, at least some resemblance. Or they just prefer to work as small teams, or work together with people they know, friends etc.
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You forgot the most import reason of all: Creative freedom
Pretty sure when you try to pitch a AAA project without Lootboxes to a publisher nowadays all you'll get is lots of laughter.
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I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should (our education over here in the U.S.) should help the U.S., or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future. For our children.
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I'm a little sad that you are already on my whitelist, because this is a whitelist-worthy comment. :)
Not sure how many will get the reference, though.
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I'm sorry, I'm from South Africa, I don't understand what, in your mind, is wrong with our education?
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Our colleges are Marxist propaganda centers that actively attacks and censors any Conservative discussion.
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lol! Not sure whats better. Your referrence, or the people that didnt get it
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Haha, yeah. The people not getting it, me included, probably own a map :P
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I think Elunes commented a link at you thatll explain lol
edit: Just saw your reply to it about a second after I posted to check it out x) my bad
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Pretty obscure reference, in my opinion.
I rate 1.3 / 10 reference points.
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At first I was like "the hell are you talking about" - and then I remembered.
Nice one!
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lol. Is this for real? What does an entrainment industry have to do with economic disparity? The industry is seen as a joke for good reason, the consumers are awful on a generality, in a business, maturity, intellectual and moral sense. Of course huge companies became attracted to it when they saw the demand, but the unique medium mean sales don't equate with the demand, so shitty practices evolved that harm consumers so companies can get what they feel they deserve from pirates. And while it wasn't that impactful to pirates (mostly, some drm has been successful) companies saw how effective it was at making money and got greedy.
Are these practices an issue and need to be solved? Sure. Do they have anything to do with the broader discussion on economic disparity? Absolutely not.
In addition, they want for a fee to publish a game be massively increased, for example from current 100$ for Steam into 5000$
Wouldn't do shit, steam needs to actually curate what's published, but they don't give a shit.
unlike cheater and money friendly CSGO and PUBG.
How is csgo cheater friendly?
Am I against people giving away for "higher contributors for the site"? Of course, no, they deserve what they offer. Problem is, that they aren't specifically hidden by default, especially on discussions, and if person wants more exposure from general public, like developers, they have to make stuff less restrictive if they want more people getting hands and playing the said game in question...Unless they are digital Homicide/shovelware developer, they should be blacklisted for trying to lie in faces of naive people. People will always say "oh no, a person discusses a vital thing that many keep their mouth shut, hurr durr", but they fail to understand how serious the issue is.
Maybe I'm just sleep deprived but I can't decipher this.
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On cheater friendly, I meant that people get smurfs to rank up, on top of using cheats to get to the top, also Valve likes to employ money making practices to point that people go crazy when they see a Dragon Lore in-game.
PUBG is even worse, it rewards people for winning that just completing a game compared to CSGO, cheaters just use cheats, then earn those juicy crates filled with money, then they sell them on market or unbox them to get a even more valuable thing they can make a living. Yes, they make more than enough money to rebuy the game if they ever get banned. The dev even capitalizes on it, by being very sleazy on actually discouraging people from cheating and using distant countries to get a combat advantage.
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Your comment is a joke ... typing this on a steam related forum aka a market distribution for games
But hey you are right ... NOP !
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What are you even trying to say? And what does it have to do with in relation to my comment?
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"lol. Is this for real? What does an entrainment industry have to do with economic disparity? The industry is seen as a joke for good reason !"
Ironically you started with the industry being a joke but your comment was the joke !
Now a industry of multiple B is a joke mkay :V !
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Okay? that doesn't disprove my point at all. The games industry is seen as immature, they're thought of as toys for grown ups, people don't take them seriously.
Demand is irrelevant, porn has higher demand and held in even lower regard. Can you imagine "A overview of rich/poor situation in adult entertainment industry.
Noone outside of the industry sees games as high art, nor of any intellectual or skill/athletic importance. It's just a toy, and noone is surprised that people playing with toys can't have a serious conversation about important issues.
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The the social researchers are wrong then ?
Also porn ... you watch porn for h every days ... really now!
If you have said movies or music them yes but PORN NOP !
Also there are historical games, there are simulators for education E Sport as in SPORT but PORN mkay :)) !
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Also porn ... you watch porn for h every days ... really now!
You don't?
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For 5h every day nop !
Enough for a wank some time :D !
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The the social researchers are wrong then ?
What social researchers? I didn't mention social researchers nor was I talking about them. I'm talking about regular people. Many outside the games industry and even some consumers don't veiw games and interactive media as important in any way, and don't think they're truly capable and/or a good place for serious discussion.
Also porn ... you watch porn for h every days ... really now!
Can you not follow an argument? It doesn't matter what you spend more time on (though I do consume more porn than games tbh)
I said people think the games industry is seen as a joke.
you said it makes billions so it's not.
I said so does porn but it isn't considered a culturally important art medium.
Also there are historical games, there are simulators for education
Intent does not change how its perceived. just 'cause the developers meant for their game to be important in some way doesn't mean others see it ss.
E Sport as in SPORT
Just no. E sports aren't seen as valuable like sports are.Sports is a display of athleticism and skill so we can revel in a humanistic awe. It is so powerful that Almost the entire world manages to come together during the Olympics to showcase the best of us.
E sports is only watched of fans of that game that likes tournaments.
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Well again studies prove you wrong about E sport because hey skills and stuff like reaction time , tactics !
You known those skills can be used to pilot UAV's with missiles and stuff so NOP !
If it is categorized as a SPORT it is a sport chess is a sport and nothing physical there so you have zero points to be made :)) !
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No they don't. Whether they are or aren't valuable is irrelevant. People outside the industry don't see it as so.
And Esports are seen as Esports not sports, they're not the same thing. Why aren't Esports part of the Olympics if they're sports yo?
And chess is seen as having value as an intellectual challenge, games do not by anyone but some gamers.
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Ok last reply ... do you know how many sports are not apart of Olympics ... more then the sports that are in the Olympics ... that is not a good argument at all !
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Fortnite is not free, only the PvP portion is. Those that paid for the original game got shafted when they swapped to make the BR clone and reap the rewards of the cosmetic craze... So much still needs to be done with the original game.
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I agree with some stuff, although I'm not sure what your global point is exactly. Still:
they want for a fee to publish a game be massively increased, for example from current 100$ for Steam into 5000$ or even millions, saying that will shovel off "asset flips" and shovelware
It's funny how even people like you who see the artificial paywall to publish on Steam is a problem can't see the bigger picture and see how Steam's monopoly is a problem. Why do people think it's normal that for a game to exist it basically must be published on Steam? Not so long ago, indie games were just released independently, on the developer's or publisher's website.
Even big publishers like Ubisoft were eventually "forced" to publish their games on Steam because so many people want it. They still require Uplay, but they still have to publish on Steam to make people happy. Seriously, people made petitions so that Ubisoft and EA put their games on Steam. Petitions in favor of a monopoly, you don't see those that often... I wonder how long games such as Sea of Thieves of Fortnite will manage to stay outside of Steam.
i.e russians have to pay 120$(sic)for a 60$ game!
I'd be curious to have some more details about how this happens... Do you mean they have some insane hidden fees somewhere (bank / exchange fees?) that somehow double the price of whatever they buy in dollars? Doesn't Steam use local currency anyway? For instance, this game costs 2.99€ for me, $2.99 (2.42€) in USA and 79 pуб. (1.12€) in Russia. Do you mean that the actual price in Russia is like 2.24€ ie double the display price? How? :s
P2W games that exist only to make money and give power for those who pay
I totally agree P2W sucks and it's our responsibility as players to make sure those games tank.
Am I against people giving away for "higher contributors for the site"? Of course, no, they deserve what they offer. Problem is, that they aren't specifically hidden by default, especially on discussions
Not sure what this paragraph has to do with the rest. Also, what isn't "specifically hidden by default" ? 👀
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I'd be curious to have some more details about how this happens... Do you mean they have some insane hidden fees somewhere (bank / exchange fees?) that somehow double the price of whatever they buy in dollars? Doesn't Steam use local currency anyway? For instance, this game costs 2.99€ for me, $2.99 (2.42€) in USA and 79 pуб. (1.12€) in Russia. Do you mean that the actual price in Russia is like 2.24€ ie double the display price? How? :s
From what I can decypher he found a single example: Attack on Titan 2, that is in no way representative of videogame pricing in general and just went from there.
I thought everybody knew there are high "taxes" on being a filthy weeb :D Just look at One Piece DVDs. AFAIK every set has like three 20 minute episodes, there are roughly 700 of them and in my country they cost roughly 30 - 50 € per piece.
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More speculation based on misconception, saying that I "want" this game, but again, I actually stumbled upon how absurdly priced it is instead, saying that "hidden fees" exist, but really it's just publisher that doesn't understand regional pricing; they want everyone to pay as Americans...but if you can't even adjust for poorer countries, how about BANNING your game instead? Or readjusting for good? That's what I want to see to happen, but no, they want to take even more money for overpriced by twice AAA game.
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You have a good vocabulary but you should try to work on your sentence structure and avoid long convoluted sentences. Generally two seperate sentences are better than one. Because no offense, but the way you write right now just comes off as gibberish.
And again: It's just a single game that is in no way representative of video game pricing in general. For the vast majority of games russians pay roughly half or a third of what US or EU citizens have to dish out.
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The price point is related to fact that Steam needs to price regionally to allow sales on that region; publishers/developers are the final words however, meaning that Valve just suggests them, but people, including AAA companies, often think about how we ignore that and make sure that they pay the same money as Americans? By ignoring the regional differences, like salary and adjusting for inflation. That will make sure that people from those countries will not buy your game; they'll complain about it on forums(unless they require the game ownership), and if you can't adjust either, it's better just ban the game on those countries.
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This crap again first research a little and see how the PC gaming platform was before steam !
It has a curator problem but in no way was PC gaming good before Steam!
Steam is better then Ubi and EA ... lootboxes, crap games so one!
And there is GOG also and we have GOG connect , family share what do we have from Uplay yes double drm , crap prices on old title that are good ... Origin is a joke , we are EA we want our games that are crap to only be here so we don't pay 30% but we want 100$ now for subpar games because we are EA ooo yea and also loot boxes for every fucking game go fuck yourself !
And then we have the crap of all crap the windows what ever store , we have windows 10 , always online OS , we have a new crap dx12, we have a new crap store , we make new crap games that will only be on windows 10 because we want a real monopoly on PC also !
SO YEA STEAM deserves it's market share so does GOG the rest can go BYE BYE !
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This crap again first research a little and see how the PC gaming platform was before steam !
It has a curator problem but in no way was PC gaming good before Steam!
Dude, you've not even been on Steam half as long as I have... "research how PC gaming was before Steam", really? I don't need to, I was there, I played there, and it was great. Steam is just a shop + DRM, it's not making PC gamies either better or worse.
The sad thing with your generation is that you were born with all these Internet oligopolies already in place and most of you are not even able to imagine an Internet without them. Newsflash: it can work, and that's how it used to work too.
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Well if I didn't have 2 diplomas in CS and the last one being E Business you would have a point !
Also I did research and still do on steam ... 3 papers all 10's in my master courses had Steam as a subject !
Before Steam the PC community was almost dead because of the crap politicize of PS ecosystem and M$ ... even now M$ wants to make an enclosed micro-sistem for cash so spare me the nostalgia for that I use GOG ... had reached 150 games there tanks to GOG connect :D !
My 16 years of PC gaming and 21 of gaming makes me a little knowledged also :D !
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Let's ask the real questions here:
How the fuck did you stumble over a 3 years old shitpost, that was just an interesting picture and a poll and even back then barely got any traction, and why did you think it would be a productive use of your time to write a lengthy retort to it ?
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What the fuck do indie games have to do with poverty?
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I have no idea what your point is, but there are several inaccuracies in your post.
Takes about one internet search to discover that the average Russian salary is about 400-550 usd, not 200 like you suggested.
Secondly, according to steamprices.com, a lot of AAA games are actually cheaper in the Russian store.
PUBG cost 15 usd, Mankind Divided cost 12, Nier Automata costs 35, Kingdom Come Deliverance is 23
I have to assume the stuff you said about DLC is false as well.
" other countries be completely destroyed from gaming market, like saying that Russians, Ukrainians, Polish and other "third world countries" should be removed completely from the gaming industry! "
Russia, Poland, Ukraine and most formerly soviet block countries are Second World countries not third and what the hell are you even talking about?
Your point about Digital Homicide makes not much sense. They simply exploited the Steam entrance fee system.
Try to be more clear with your points.
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You are still ignoring that prices are based on region, not saying that if 1 dollar = 2$ for poorest countries, but the fact that your speculation doesn't adjust to inflation(currency used to be fairer than that)however, especially when game bundles normally cost between 1-5$, but again, Russians have to pay 2$-10$ equivalent instead, because again, inflation counted. You count pre-inflation value(meaning they cost twice), which is wrong.
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Are you trolling?
I think you should look up what inflation means. This has nothing to do with that. These are current prices!
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I think you went a little bit too hard in the paint, like literally :P. I honestly do not have the slightest clue what you're talking about, but you're intertwining things that aren't even remotely close, nor does it make much sense to mix them up in the first place... there's no conspiracy behind video games to cripple former Eastern Bloc states, no heroic resellers sticking it to the system or a general rich vs. poor pissing contest with the former trying to run rings around the latter - just the law of supply and demand. You need to put arguments into a realistic perspective and hit a conclusion, not mingle them together in a pot of incoherent rambling and what sounds like a craze of ideas caused by binge-watching conspiracy videos all day long on YT. Go outside, take a deep breath, clear your mind, forget about all that nonsense you heard on the interwebs, go fact check and look up how things work (best with a real book out of real paper and ink) and - foremost - don't let yourself be manipulated by whatever towards such a paranoid state of mind, isn't that healthy.
Good luck.
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If you think that all is wrong or right, well, I'm here to disappoint you; it's not the market law or even common sense, you are literally ignoring what is real situation is, you still think that we should let AAA studios keep doing shameless rip offs, indie developers lying to people in order to make money and crap on store they are in, on top of making games purely for profit instead of pricing for what they are truly worth, like pricing a 2 hour with no redeeming qualities game for 10-15$ and calling it a great product? Not all of them of course, but "no redeeming qualities" one. That relates to "let's silence a person who is against evil industry, who is feasting and leeching on it's divided corpse" to make others think "everything is fine", but really isn't.
Pricing for countries that a poorer than america as if they were Americans(AKA non poor)in the first place? That's like asking for even more money. If you can't handle international market of poorer countries with high piracy rates, you would rather ban your game on them. The initial statement of people wanting them dead is related to again, engine that games use; they think that no games from regions that I specified should exist, along with those game engines.
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Triple-A studios producing 'inferior' games and indie developers ripping off people with unfinished products are nowhere near that big a problem as you paint them to be and the market usually gets rid of them rather quickly (besides that conclusion being heavily opinionated: For instance, a lot of people still seem to enjoy COD, even if a large group of people would rather dismiss the franchise for e.g. its repetitiveness or lootbox shenanigans; or short indie games like The Stanley Parable, being praised to this day despite being priced ~12 bucks), but that also doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with such things arising once in a while which needs to be addressed - still, it's a minority and definitely not due to it being a evil industry, but pure greed, inexperience, high development costs, overblown expectations, Steam not giving a fuck or simply due to people running these companies that don't come from a gaming background and rather view every game from the point of an investment than a piece of art (which they are both) - just to name a few, there's a lot more factors that come into play here. Following your argument, the Mona Lisa or even the new album of Miley Cirus isn't nearly worth as much just because you don't think it is... well, that's unfortunately not how it works. If you don't want to support their behavior, just don't buy their product, doesn't matter if it's a price you would deem fair or the original one - there's no better and easier way to put a stop to this but to deny them access to your wallet. Publishers selling their product on a foreign market for a lower price isn't a birth right one has, but simply a gesture of goodwill or, if you more bound to reality, a way for them to saturate those markets effectively. And with the entertainment industry being a competitive one, it's also commonplace to deny any potential competition a hold of that market, it's the same here in the west as it is in the east and everywhere else on this planet, and definitely no American invention.
You know, I know where you're coming from and at the most basic level I agree with what you say, but you also have to put everything into perspective and not mix it up with what sounds like some bizarre conspiracy theories and a rather evident lack of economic understanding.
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Not likely. A even worse villain will emerge. What I said however, is people wanting "poor countries" be eliminated from industry, because they say "home of crap games", the same way they say about game engines as well.
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Not you again xD
If you could educate yourself before discussing something that would be great.
the average salary in Russia is 200$
russians have to pay 120$(sic)for a 60$ game!
Lies.
Digital Homicide who exploited every hole to abuse customers as money machines
I'm afraid that you have no idea what are you talking about. In that case "customers" were people who got their "games" for free. I'm one of them. Why I got it? Because I could sell 3 cards for some little profit. They got 1 cent for every sold card. Win-win.
The problem here is the fact that this turns market into garbage disposal. Where you have to spend hours to find something valuable.
And they were abusing greenlight.
Current system is even worse.
5k$ fee is random opinion said by somebody tired with shitload of shovelware stolenassetsflips. That would kill indie devs.
VALVE is one to blame. Just check how many games was released during last year. Multiply it by 100$. If they would spend half of that on hiring some testers and introduce actual quality control - their store would look different.
Solution? Don't support monopolist. I stopped to buy games from steam and I'm really happy now. Witcher 3 is the best game I have ever played... and I bought it on GOG for half the price that i would pay on steam. And did I mentioned that valve is charging 30% of games prize? So yeah - your 60$ AAA is actually 40$ AAA + fee for VALVE.
The regional one also has another group of people who want, well, you guessed it; they want other countries be completely destroyed from gaming market, like saying that Russians, Ukrainians, Polish and other "third world countries" should be removed completely from the gaming industry!
What kind of bubbling is that?
P2W games that exist only to make money and give power for those who pay, on top of killing indie genre, and loot box craze, such as CSGO/PUBG/insert loot box or skins game here
What P2W, indie games and loot boxes have in common? Probably only thing is that you need PC to run them. They have different target group. I will never buy a game that have loot boxes nor I would pay for advantage in p2w game. How are those things supposed to kill indie gaming? People who play cs:go and buy skins usually don't even play anything else. Yeah they try to win other stuff here but they don't play it, just farm cards to buy more skins xD
DLC bangalooza
I blame people who bought that fucking horse armor xD
Solution? Don't buy DLC's. Really. It's that simple.
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Selling DH games cards is still a crime in the past, because those morons already earned your money. Effectively, you contributed to the problem yourself. Of course, many of us did.
The regional statement is here because some moronic people think that those countries should be banned from video gaming, that if they ever release a game, whatever it is, they should be banned instantly because "poor countries produce crap games" agenda.
DLC one is, because some companies dared enough to make overly huge saturation of useful/useless content, just look at OVERKILL. One of Dynasty Warriors games also has a crap ton of it, too.
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This crap again first research a little and see how the PC gaming platform was before steam !
It has a curator problem but in no way was PC gaming good before Steam!
Steam is better then Ubi and EA ... lootboxes, crap games so one!
And there is GOG also and we have GOG connect , family share what do we have from Uplay yes double drm , crap prices on old title that are good ... Origin is a joke , we are EA we want our games that are crap to only be here so we don't pay 30% but we want 100$ now for subpar games because we are EA ooo yea and also loot boxes for every fucking game go fuck yourself !
And then we have the crap of all crap the windows what ever store , we have windows 10 , always online OS , we have a new crap dx12, we have a new crap store , we make new crap games that will only be on windows 10 because we want a real monopoly on PC also !
SO YEA STEAM deserves it's market share so does GOG the rest can go BYE BYE !
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Steam fanboy detected xD
But seriously - I don't need any research. I remember how PC gaming was before steam. And yeah - when I first saw it - It was like gaming messiah that came to save our gaming souls. Sales where I could buy game 10x cheaper than the same boxed game in store? Patches downloading automatically? Multiplayer without need of third party programs that were pain to manage?
And right now? Valve became greedy corp. And it's no better than other greedy corporations you mentioned. And curation problem is just a tip of an iceberg.
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Well I was a "Steam fan boy" so to say in the time I made my paper about STEAM in my master degree course and I did get and 10/A+ :D !
Sorry Valve is one of the most greedy ass company out there !
But EA is not greedy ... research it little one is way beyond that!
Ubisoft is crap because they only do franchises crap ones now and need a double DRM just because they are Ubisoft!
And Microshit ... no explication needed!
SO ZIP IT !
"And yeah - when I first saw it - It was like gaming messiah that came to save our gaming souls. Sales where I could buy game 10x cheaper than the same boxed game in store? Patches downloading automatically? Multiplayer without need of third party programs that were pain to manage?" - NOP you only know 10% of what was happening back then !
Research what Microshit and Play Station wanted to do to the industry :D !
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NOP you only know 10% of what was happening back then !
I just mentioned casual stuff that is important to me as a gamer :) Writing about all is in fact material for master degree paper xD
Research what Microshit and Play Station wanted to do to the industry :D
Scary stuff is what Microsoft might do in the future. I wouldn't be surprised if win 10 would force you to buy apps only in built-in Microsoft shop like Apple. And ban other applications (like steam) because of "safety measures".
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Oooo now you are talking about reality!
So valve as stupid as they are already made another OS for us , refuse to buy the windows 10 crap , support Vulcan to the Steam OS so it won't let M$ force the Win 10 crap and dirx 12 crap on us !
So as I said Steam and GOG have special places in the market the other don't and they can fuck themselves !
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After I read tos of new windows and realised what it actually is - I decided to stay with w7. I hope that more devs would make games for different OS than M$ because right now It doesn't look good :)
Who knows what future will bring :)
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I used Windows 10 in beta before it became free and said NOP !
I will only use it in dual boot when my laptops warranty ware off and I install a second HHD to my actual SSD now :D
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Jokes aside, technically, I'm not poor, but baffled at how grand evil the industry is.
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Evil, really? I'll agree that that video game pricing models are stupid and greedy, but evil? Maybe lootboxes are unethical as they feed a gambling addiction, but games being cost prohibitive to some is not evil, They hurt noone by being so.
The medical industry is unnecessarily prohibitive and people suffer and die without treatment because of it, that's an example of unethical pricing, not "games are too expensive for Russia"
Or, if you want to be mad at the games industry, the practice of crunch is pretty unethical.
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Sorry, I meant "evil" that is treating users and consumers as well as other creators like garbage, be it an "indie" dev who beilves that users are nothing but scapegoats, to companies boasting that forcing everyone to pay the same price DESPITE regional pricing differences is fairly normal, on top of DLC that exists because they butcher the game and split it into pieces, INSTEAD of offering actual expansions, that actually add new stuff that wasn't in original, including major rebalancing. Remember in 2000 the games were more complete and required less patches to be run? Nowdays the vital parts are behind months of patches, in DLCs, lying of Randy Pitchford's level, "groups" on Steam who use mafia extortion tactics against honest indie developers, teams that promote crap devs in exchange for giveaways, like YOLO army, and other hell I can't just keep being silent about.
Region locks exist to prevent reselling to another country, I know, BUT non regional pricing, despite the fact that any game you buy is specifically to region you buy it from(i.e CIS)is just a way to earn more money than actually needed. Enforcing other country stores to pay the same in richer ones, while still having region locks in place is non reasonable and absurd.
Crunches in video games? Hell, that's even more absurd than ever. Religion, politics and industry don't ever mix with each other. They are gonna turn the other to horrify into a mutation.
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Religion, politics and industry don't ever mix with each other.
Lol. churches are huge businesses. Industries have been been in politics for ever. They make money, money buys politics, industry lobbyist aren't a rare thing. And religion is super interconnected with politics. Western morality is based on Jewish and Christian Values, and people are trying to add thier other religious values to the law and politics all the time.
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i.e russians have to pay 120$(sic)for a 60$ game! Remember, the average salary in Russia is 200$, meaning it takes about 6/10 of their monthly salary!
I would really like to know where you pulled this from, because a) the minimum wage in rural Russia is around 200 USD, with the average reported closer to 600 USD (more than I earn with the local Euro zone prices, by the way, so yes, Russians who complain about game prices can still kiss my ass); and b) Steam had to enact cross-region trading blocks because Russians were making a living from buying games for (less than) half price and selling them for a small profit for Westerners (and most anyone else).
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I would really like to know where you pulled this from
From the place where most people get their facts: The Facts that back your narrative store.
enactdisable cross-region trading
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It was disabled since 2014, and yet I'm still baffled at that some publishers/developers still have the balls to charge more than they need. Pure incompetence of them, period.
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What I'm saying is that they have to adjust the standard price for said "poor regions" to make sure it even sells in first place. They didn't, on top of that, they are still selling the game in them, while said "poor regions" people can buy 2 GTA V copies as a better value. If they still can't do that, how about banning the whole game in "poor regions" if you want to avoid backlash about everyone paying the same price as "american" style.
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That is not the actual reason. Most of the low-price regions are a mixture of trying to adapt to the purchasing power, but mostly to combat piracy. China is the worst in the piracy matters, and Russia has moved forward a lot since the late 90s (where piracy ratings were in the 90% region), but mostly these low prices are the only way for publishers to get some money out of those regions. Heck, almost all games are still cracked by Russians nowadays, and they still tend to have the most elegant solutions to bypass DRM, even though the Chinese are really trying to take over that underground scene for years with their own solutions.
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I don't even know what you are talking about?
Do you expect the world to be fair or what?!
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Of course, I'm sorry for some of mess I've created, but I ended up with that because I interconnected all of that between ordinary person speculation between money spent, money need, money addiction and greed. I can't even say on that topic, but ordinary person sometimes asks on forums why this exists, and guessed it, gets bombarded with hatred for "lack of knowledge", so I ended up with this.
Of course, my stupidity is a result of my damaged brain, which obviously prevents me to make something perfectly clear, UNTIL someone else corrects or makes something that not even I can think of. I'll never as a result truly define something perfectly, just more people who say "you are an idiot and you must be stopped". I'm not even doing it just because "junk/spam", but because these are issues that people just prefer to not discuss, but it's related to Steam and gaming in general. Puzzles/chains/trains as a result, whenever I make them end up being truly absurdly impossible, or very ironically unchallenging, or very unrewarding as a result.
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these are issues that people just prefer to not discuss, but it's related to Steam and gaming in general.
How is economic disparity related to gaming?
I like discussing actual issues, this one I can't offer much to because I'm not very knowledgeable on it, but the bundling of it with video game pricing which is irrelevant makes the discussion a joke.
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Indie dev here, the only problem with the market is lack of curation. Valve stubbornly refuses to hire people to curate titles and keep thinking their algorithms will save the day.
As for your pricing talks, so what if somebody didn't enable cross-region pricing? They're not required to. If somebody demands to be paid the same amount of money regardless of what country the buyer is from, they're entitled to that. If somebody wants a certain currency to pay extra they're also entitled to that. It's their labor and their sale, they set the price. If the game costs too much in your opinion, don't buy it. Lord knows you don't have to buy every game that flashes in front of you.
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If you want to get sales if ever in "poor" countries, you have to adjust by algorithm if you want to get customers to think about buying your game in the first place; doing otherwise, especially with ES enabled, will make sure that people will avoid even thinking about your game, and as it had happened to Paradox games, people will try to rebel against price increases AFTER release to "adjust to poor countries", while not understanding that previous price was fine. Thankfully, they reverted the change, and people stopped complaining.
What happens if a dev prices a 30$ game in poor countries W/O adjusting? It will cost like an 60$ in those countries, which WILL make them angry for a change. If you want to avoid backlash, you have to either ban the game entirely in poor countries or adjust it for good. We already have region locks for a reason, why making the game priced the same as US-like countries, despite games STILL being region locked?
I'm running out of ideas.
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Comparing Paradox to anybody else will leave a sour taste in your mouth. Those guys pull all sorts of cheap moves because they're in a niche genre with almost no competition. Btw, they're Swedish, so I'm not sure they fall under your 'US-like countries'. If they do, then I guess you just mean 1st World (which is awkward since the original definiton of 1st World literally just meant Russia and USA).
But again, if someone doesn't want to use price adjusting they don't have to. If it leads to a lack of sales they'll have to take that, but you can't fix prices for luxury goods.
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It’s just way too many trash game on steam, the overwhelming amount makes most people don’t pay attention to indie games unless you are really good like undertale. For example, apps in google play store and apple store, you will probably use apps well known and you trusted rather then something new, because google play store is like steam now. But apps in apple App Store at least they met certain standards.
So I think it’s valve’s fault who doesn’t regulate the quality while busy grabbing cash.
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Yeah, the key to getting rid of trash games is to have curation. Valve just doesn't want to foot the bill, which is why they had Steam Greenlight. Then they realized Steam Greenlight was awful so they replaced it with an even worse system.
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I dont know what youre trying to say but where I live it is sometimes pricey due to the company that is actually responsable on distributing the game. Usually its visible with console games and if not is due to the taxes all over place too and that isnt simple as youre may or not be pointing it out (as im not sure if i understood what you meant in first place)
One game I can think of having a bad price even on a steam sale is ride 2.
Its less than 10 bucks if u compare the currencies "real/dollar" but its around 28-29 reais,
while the first one go around 18-19 reais range (less than 10 bucks)
Some may argue that it totally worth it but I highly disagree, I played the first one and the only significant difference is more tracks on the second tittle. It gets visible asf on the ea games catalog, overpriced games for ages and im glad i havent touched anything they did after closing down nfs wo and I cant forget to mention the call of duty franchise as they have 0 appeal to me and its always trying to sell their games with some no sense price tag.
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If Valve's not going to curate the games they accept, they need to raise the Steam Direct fee to make utter garbage unprofitable. They need to take a look at their metrics and figure out exactly how much money a non-game makes by selling itself for pennies and pumping out trading cards. Then they need to make the Steam Direct fee double that. Yes, it will probably choke out some legitimately good games. But those games are getting choked out now in the flood of shit anyway, so we won't really be losing anything.
They also need to limit achievements a lot more strictly, with a manual approval process if you want to have more than a hundred. There are games that legitimately use more than a hundred, but the achievement spam games are ridiculous. At the moment, they only need a few hundred copies to make enough profit to squirt out another one. 100 achievements won't draw nearly as many of the achievement hunters as 5000
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A more radical idea - Valve takes 30% on sales and wants to enforce a 50 cent minimum? Charge the developer 15 cents to generate each key. Give them like 100 freebies so a small team can work on the game, and then charge 15 cents for every key past that. Bigger studios can absorb it, smaller studios will have to make good games before they can give away 50,000 copies, and reviewers can get their copies though that fancy system Valve designed specifically for giving copies of games to reviewers.
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That would mean they are enforcing their monopoly status to distort market, as many shops sell Steam keys. The EU, but maybe even the US would fine them so much that it would ruin their perfect 99.9999% profitability rates.
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I don't think so. There might be a legal issue with changing the terms for currently existing games, but they can very easily change the terms for all newly submitted games. Don't like it? GOG exists. Itch exists.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the Steam Direct agreement allows them to change the terms with enough notice anyway.
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Personally I've always thought this should implemented. They've already limited key generation (technically, key generation isn't automated so it's all up to the whims of whoever is handling your key request), but paying 5-10% of the game's price per key generated would be much more transparent and fair.
It alone wouldn't stop bad actors/fake games, but it'd at least cut down on Russian trading card bot farms and low-quality bundles.
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Raising the Steam Direct fee would probably lead to fewer releases but a higher percentage of garbage, as legit devs would migrate to free alternatives while groups that are gaming the system would stay in. No matter what the fee is, it gets refunded to you once you make enough sales, so it's not like these people would be losing that money from their profits.
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I have better Idea!
Remove trading cards and achievements!
Suddenly fake-games have no reason to exist.
not gonna happen because people are addicted to those and valve would loose potential customers but I can dream right?
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Congratulations for your post. Some people really seem not having any idea of how difficult things are for gamers from certain countries.
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Are you from one of the listed countries? I am interested in how accurate this post is, because I found several false statements, that undermine the validity of it, so I am conflicted.
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Not really accurate. I live in a country where the average salary is less than €600, there is no regional pricing even in physical stores (games cost in the 40-110€ range), yet there are distributors and even local subsidiaries of large companies that try to bring life to the market with localisations (they are not exactly cheap); EA even has a small support center that supports our language. And we are not exaclt a market the size of Russia or Poland.
So, no. It is just a post that proves that even though Hungarians are most famous for our pessimism in literally everything, you cannot beat Russian gamers in terms of whining all the time on the internet.
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Pont erre gondoltam, jah.
De konkrét árkülönbség nem nagyon van az online vásárlásnál, csak ez a poszt teljesen mást állított.
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A fizikai játékok drágábbak náluk, hacsak nem egy helyi elosztón át jön. Ebből a szempontból a lengyelek esetében igaza van, a boltokban néha feleannyi zlotyiért kapták meg ugyanazt a játékot, mint digitálisan – akkor is, ha a fizikai játék egy dobozba tett Steam kód cetli volt, ami ugye nálunk is a legáltalánosabb formája a PC játékoknak.
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Igen, csak nem ekkora változás van a számokban. Bár arra lennék kiváncsi, hogy az orosz Steam pl mennyivel más mint pl az amerikai vagy amit mi látunk.
Nem tudom ki vesz pc-re fizikai játékot mondjuk, ha a digitális változat ennyivel olcsóbb...
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A ruszkiknál alap egy 40%-kal kisebb ár mindenen, de egyes játékoknál elmegy 70%-ig. Amikor bezuhant a rubel, volt 80% is (és ez nem diszkontár, hanem normál), de aztán a legtöbb kiadó korrigált. Egy hatvaneurós újdonság cirka huszonhét környékébe fáj nekik, bár kiadója válogatja, húsz és negyven között lehet bármennyi.
Ami alapvetően engem nem érdekelne annyira, ha nem tudnám, hogy ugyanannyit keresnek, mint mi, és mégis MINDIG telesírják az összes fórumot, hogy jajderossz nekik, mert így is még mennyire drágák a játékok. Hisztisebbek, mint mi, amiről az ember azt hinné, fizikai képtelenség.
(Edit: Oh yeah, guys, sorry for the untranslatable language. Google fails here, do not even try. :D)
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Hát igen. lehet ha mi is kapnánk lokális magyar steamet, akkor nálunk is ez lenne... addig maradunk az európai áraknál, büszkén elmondhatjuk, hogy az áraink nyugatiak, ha a fizetések nem is.
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Whining? Are you serious? That's like calling Company of Heroes 2 "truthful to history" despite Soviet campaign implying otherwise; the soviet commanders order to execute Germans, despite they could otherwise(in real life)capture them and extort them for information, or if they can't, at least capture for free workforce, or in 1 justifiable case, enraged soldiers out of revenge killing the Germans. People were actually happy that it has been banned, but no, Relic decided to do even more blatant lies on how it is related to "real life history".
Again, you rely on "poor countries having nothing to protect themselves, they are worst" excuse, without justifying further. I rely on information, not only the "best for the best" instead of "everyone for everyone" approach. Moronic companies and indie developers think they can get away for charging more than needed, and then they see the wrath of people when they finally get caught out. Keep saying "evil Russians" in video games, before companies charged much better fare for most countries, not the way they charge now, you get incompetent people saying "everything should be expensive" and companies thinking that "if you are from enemy country, you should have no stuff/you should die". I'm not saying "everything should be free", I'm saying that everything should be priced accordingly, not inflating because "poor/enemy country", or political stuff.
And if you think portraying "evil countries" is a bad thing either, well, lemme count examples of them done right; Red Alert series shows how awesome the "evil Russians" are, while Generals shows how cool "evil and Nod-like arabs". Also, those games were priced accordingly to price exchange in countries, so what's your point?
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No. Whining, because you are over the 20th Russian I see on this forum crying about how "expensive" games are over there. You have the cheapest/second cheapest (depending on game) region on the planet for Steam. I really have no idea what would satisfy you people, but the "woe us, we are poor, games are expensive" act is getting rather old in the past three and half years. Interestingly, before the cross-region locks, Russians were advertising their cheap prices, but ever since then the same prices are "high". Go, live in Ukraine or Moldova with their salaries and game prices, then you can start crying about games being expensive.
(Also, CoH is about as historically accurate as CoD… :P)
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The countries you described are now having finer prices, meaning they are "same" price wise. And now you are saying that I'm "whining" despite my topic suggesting otherwise, and your call on "history" is wrong, because COD(the oldest ones)were never told by creators(anyway)"true to history" despite the games themselves accurately describing so, wheras new ones(and COH) described by creators themselves as "true to history", despite they aren't.
Oh, and now you are going to insults straight. I've never said that I was poor, I told that it's price discrimination, it should work better. When region locks came, I didn't defended them from other standpoint, but not from profit one. You still insist I'm against them? That's called "gain proof by distortion of facts".
"Russians advertised their cheap prices" You know that THIS IS giveaway site, not a TRADE one, remember? Even before gift locks they wouldn't able to sell AAA due to locks anyway, so people wanting AAA like borderlands 2 instead came to others. When I called out a developer on unadjusted pricing to gain pure dollars in 2014, his response that "everyone should have to pay pure dollars" resulted in OTHER people, after myself calling out on how he was wrong. You don't get what I'm still meaning.
Keep ignoring what's right and what's wrong. I've never told you that, period. I'm more against incompetent creators pricing like if everyone was rich. You still insist on that. Great.
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Ukraine has full price in USD with worse salaries than in hungary (and still being rus-cis regionblocked), what are you talking about "their finer prices", especially compared to russia that has fragment of the prices? Like it or not, underinformed russians really love to play the victim about steam's prices, while they are in better situation than many countries in the area.
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"Oh RU is aggressor, so Ukraine innocent" we are not talking about that much on politics, right? I just told that I thought that they are paying just as much as RU(oh wait, THEY NOW HAVE their own currency, NOT US$-CIS conversion)in most aspects. Not that they are better or worse, just same if not as RU.
I'm saying that moronic companies and devs implementing stupid extra charges on other regions for no reason other than having them to pay "same as rich country people" would do. If yen-$ conversion is fine, then dollar to ruble is twice as worse. You are not seeing the problem here?
(some later found to be sensitive content has been removed to prevent disinformation, because overreaction and "wrong")
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Mate, literally, noone was talking about politics, I don't know what I did to deserve the onslaught about something unrelated. You mentioned ukraine as country, I told how their system on steam is. Then yousuddenly defend russia from western propaganda or some shit. Sensitive topic?
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What? I'm not even saying that I defend the aggressor, but people suddenly started making assumptions that "you live in aggressor country(read last post), so you should be judged" just because I mentioned. God dammit. I'm not even on same side as "aggressor country", so I just told that people are just gone straight into politics.
Let's not to "off-topic" it even further, but people are seriously misunderstanding my standpoint, to point it gone to politics. Great, more hell for everyone. I think other people are gonna do a way better job at describing their knowledge than I can. But if I didn't reply to people, they would still remain confused and think that "I must be stopped". So I had no other choice, but to prove myself.
I repeat; I live in people's minds "aggressor country", not actually gloriously proud like a patriotic idiot.
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It was you who started bringing up the topic in the discussion of the two of us, next time you can prevent getting offtopic by not going offtopic :)
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Inspired by a thread about giving to the poor from stealing from the rich(yes its on this site), and opinion that both sides should be under "no poverty" rule, I ended up with this somewhat nasty but truthful opinionship; also inspired from watching "random" people on the internet, who offer tyrannic rules, saying that indie game genre should die off, and if you don't want to die, you should join/be absorbed by AAA studios, or you should be a country patriot and make games how your country(i.e America)destroys the enemy countries and says "we are the favored ones" if you are against us, or don't want to join us, you should die before us. In addition, they want for a fee to publish a game be massively increased, for example from current 100$ for Steam into 5000$ or even millions, saying that will shovel off "asset flips" and shovelware, while also implying that games should be a luxury that only the billionaires or simply the best/favored ones can enjoy, not as works of art and honesty. Or TLDR; AAA win, indie should die.
Another issue is how people relate to other countries; from some companies that raise their prices on other regions to point they reach 60$ under current bank exchange, but somehow they end up costing MORE than specified; i.e RU/CIS have to pay 120$(sic)for a 60$ game! You would rather buy 2 GTA V(right, 2 AAA games)copies instead of this! Yes, you heard me right, they pay TWICE than amount that perfect currency countries pay! On top of that, companies make DLCs worth more than the base game itself, in certain cases multiple times than normal! The AOT2 game is pure example of "pure dollars" rule; it ignores regional price differences in order to make more accessible to rich countries, like US, JP and KR for example. Everyone else is screwed. https://steamdb.info/app/601050/
But main issue still remains; there's "indie" developers like Digital Homicide who exploited every hole to abuse customers as money machines, to those who ignore regional pricing to make more money than they deserve, and those who price their games for more than they are worth, and then releasing those games as bundled ones...Like a 10$ visual novel into a 1$ bundle that also contains other games, not just that one. In case of bundles, they still use "pure dollars", so that makes people resort to key resellers, who may cost even more money. Reseller sites that buy on their own however, may be not that greedy.
The regional one also has another group of people who want, well, you guessed it; they want other countries be completely destroyed from gaming market, like saying that Russians, Ukrainians, Polish and other "third world countries" should be removed completely from the gaming industry, because they are "home of crap games because they are poor" While also saying that Unity, RPG Maker engines and others should die in favor of those who can pay 5000$+ like EA, Ubisoft and AAA companies. Despite AAA are the reason why indies erupted and exist; EA absorbed and killed studios to point where creative talent is no longer recoverable, while people say it's for great good...
Real life? It's similar, here you get people who are supporting "power for the rich" rule, where AAA studios make gameless editions of games, "fee to pay" games like Overwatch, DLC bangalooza, where they cost MORE than the game itself, up to multiple times, P2W games that exist only to make money and give power for those who pay, on top of killing indie genre, and loot box craze, such as CSGO/PUBG/insert loot box or skins game here, where they lure people into spending money on "it's just cosmetic" excuse, while making crap ton of money for doing absolutely nothing. Or people who are against, instead encouraging consumer friendly system, like Fortnite, which has cosmetics, but is F2P to begin with, and doesn't allow people to gamble outside it. Unturned is another one with loot boxes, but it's F2P, so like Fortnite, and they both act fair to players, unlike cheater and money friendly CSGO and PUBG.
I hope this info will be of your use. Regardless of who you are, or what you are. Hopefully it will help you in future. Rich or not, both are welcome. There was also blatant statement born from "money related" things. Sorry for EVEN mentioning it, but that was in original post. Come at me for being stupid.
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