But the girl in the giveaway pic is dressed... and no kids should be around SG anyways... O.o
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Yeah, I should have viewed the GA site on desk again, I only checked it first on mobile and didn't take a closer look. Sorry for the confusion. This one's okay, but what if another dev/pub wants to provoke even more? Would be good to have a solution for that at SG.
Regarding kids: SG's ToS states 16, Steam's ToS 13 - how do you want a kid to prevent browsing here?
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I'd like some clarification on the pornography guideline. Because in this case, in order to access it you'd need to win the giveaway, download the DLC (this is assuming that you own the game) and then play it. This feels quite indirect. Heck, you can't even see the store page for this DLC.
My opinion as it stands is that if it's on Steam it can be given away on SG, that doesn't mean that I think it's good or that it should be given away.
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Heck, you can't even see the store page for this DLC.
You can. You only need to be logged in and allow adult content there. It's also about the banner, so no need to win it.
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Fairs fair, teaches me for viewing the page on my phone (while not being signed in)
Upon viewing the store page - that crosses a line. It signals a wider problem with how Steam functions.
Not seeing that much of an issue with the banner image though, I still think that games like this should be able to be listed on SG. But games and DLC with that content put right on the store page with no censorship is a problem.
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Yeah, I should have viewed the GA site on desk again, I only checked it first on mobile and didn't take a closer look. Sorry for the confusion. This one's okay, but what if another dev/pub wants to provoke even more? Would be good to have a solution for that at SG.
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I don't want to take them out of context - but this what I'm talking about with the banner.
I'd like to see what peoples objections are to this.
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*tilts head* Am I blind? I'm just not seeing it. :|
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Ah, okay, I see what you mean now.
I asked that originally because I've noticed at one point that the games have actually more than one banner, and sometimes they feature different imagery. Rather rarely, as far as I recall, but sometimes they do. So there might be a different banner with more explicit content.
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Yeah, I should have viewed the GA site on desk again, I only checked it first on mobile and didn't take a closer look. Sorry for the confusion. This one's okay, but what if another dev/pub wants to provoke even more? Would be good to have a solution for that at SG.
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Perhaps we ought to count our blessings in that DLCs use the pic for the base game with a thingy with "DLC" written on it? :D
But yes, the ideal thing would be Steam making it easier to sort things in its API. Then again, Steam's API is so full of huge issues that I can't see something like this ever happening. I'm not sure any solution can be created on SG's side without some sort of help from the API.
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I don't mind nudity or porno games, but I can see why someone else might not want to see it, especially if you're checking giveaways at work or something. A NSFW tag would be cool, but prolly difficult to implement unless Steam does (not sure if it does or not out side of the age check). For now, you'd prolly be farther ahead just hiding those games when you see them creep up. I know that's what my mom does. If you'd like, over the next day or something I can ask her for her filtered list and share it to get you a head start
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That's very kind - thank you for the offer. Problem solved though, via DLC filter thanks to some advice given here. I don't mind nudity or sexual content in games (I would never block a game like The Witcher) but I prefer not to look at porno/hentai games.
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Killing people: Good. Let's turn it into an "esport" and make the people who play them famous and give them money.
The human body: Bad. Hide it away, be ashamed!
What a world.
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Haha, took a hit to the blacklist for this one, and I'll wear it proudly.
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Except that by knee-jerk calling it out, you aren't really proud or happy about it.
Instead, you're subconsciously looking for validation, hoping for others to come to your aid during this time of unrighteous and unjust treatment. This is known as the Blacklist Effect™, and it is quite common around these parts. It can be combated with prescribed medication, but seek the advice of your primary care physician before starting treatment.
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To be clear, I don't enter drawings here, with the rare exception being a forum based train or puzzle. I don't enter because I don't do giveaways, since I would have a hard time identifying legitimate friend requests on Steam versus the number of attempted scams I get. The blacklist can't harm me, but it is funny to see someone respond to disagreement by resorting to it, thinking it will stop me from winning a drawing I would never have entered in the first place.
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Let's leave aside the fact that these are anime characters and that they didn't choose to show off their body. They're not models or actresses disrobing.
I'm not against nudity or bodies or for prude attitude but for arguments sake, it's got nothing to do with "the human body", and hiding it away.
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If this was any of the thousands of other violent games on Steam (or elsewhere), would this topic exist? It's absolutely about the bodies.
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To each of their own I'd say .. personally I don't give a damn but I would welcome better regulation to Steam's game library - the more games it offers doesn't necessarily mean the better.
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- I don't see anything wrong with the giveaway banner. In fact, I see nothing wrong with the store page. We've all (haven't we?) seen women nude before, given how we (most of us?) came into the world?
- If you don't wish to see this sort of game when you're browsing at work or with children at home, go to https://store.steampowered.com/account/preferences/ and adjust your preferences.
- If you fear your children may see this material, perhaps you (speaking in general) should invest more time in educating your children and keeping an eye on what they are doing online. Too often these days, we seek to blame an exterior source, when poor parenting is really at fault.
- If you don't wish to see it on Steamgifts, click the little eyeball next to it.
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I already had preferences adjusted for this type of game. Problem was that Steam doesn't filter DLCs apparently. Workaround turned out to be blocking all DLC for not owned games here on SG, not ideal, but it solved the problem for me. I doubt that I would even have seen it if it was not pinned at the top of the page in the mass giveaways section, since I browse by wishlist.
I won't say that I wasn't initially annoyed by it, but I was also genuinely interested in what the community thinks about pornographic content here. I'm not looking for censorship or to tell people how they should think, just opinions, and yet I'm surprised at how many people have tried to tell me that nudity and pornography are the same thing, (which I find a bit disingenuous) as if I should be sharing that viewpoint.
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and yet I'm surprised at how many people have tried to tell me that nudity and pornography are the same thing, (which I find a bit disingenuous)
You seem to be making the assumption that everyone believes as you do -- that the material in question is pornographic in nature.
I see some (badly) drawn pictures of nude women. Nothing more.
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Just the opposite. You left out the last part of my sentence, I see. Let me be clear - I do not share your viewpoint and I don't expect you to share mine.
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From your other reply --
but I was also genuinely interested in what the community thinks about pornographic content here.
I'm saying not all of us see it (the game and DLC you've posted) as pornographic content (I certainly don't), so asking for our opinions on pornographic content when we don't see what you've posted as pornography is a bit difficult.
Had you posted a game that is clearly pornographic in nature, giving an opinion would be much easier. To me, this is just badly drawn nude women.
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Fair enough. I started this fully aware that definitions of pornography can vary considerably and even a supreme court justice's ruling can devolve into the subjective as in the immortal words of Justice Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it", which I suspect applies to the rest of us as well. Even dictionaries vary on key points. The Oxford dictionary seems to support my viewpoint -
Printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate sexual excitement.
On the other hand, Merriam-Webster appears to support what I am assuming is yours (forgive the assumption or please correct) -
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
And the Cambridge dictionary even contradicts itself between its two versions.
Academic Content Dictionary:
pictures, movies, or writing that show or describe sexual behavior for the purpose of exciting people sexually
Advanced Learner's Dictionary:
books, magazines, films, etc. with no artistic value that describe or show sexual acts or naked people in a way that is intended to be sexually exciting
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I posted this in another reply to you, but I think there's a crucial distinction to be made between posting pornographic content directly to SG - clearly not okay - and making a giveaway for a Steam game that contains pornographic content. The giveaway in question does not show any pornography, and only by following the link to Steam, logging into your Steam account, passing an age check, and stating that you're okay with seeing such content do you actually see such content.
When you try to filter out such content, that's when you really get into the weeds as far as what is and isn't pornography, and what should and should not be allowed. This game with the DLC may feature naked anime sprites. The Witcher has collectible sex cards featuring naked women. There are games where nudity is thrown in without need (and I would argue that The Witcher's sex cards fit this description), and games where nudity and sex are integral to the theme and concept. Where do you draw the line that one is allowed and the other isn't, and who makes the distinction? The reason Valve gave up trying to make the distinction is because their "pornography" filter was filtering out lots of LGBT romance visual novels - VNs with legitimately good stories and writing and critical reviews.
Years ago, some people made the case that Mass Effect was pornographic, and as result of that Dragon Age: Origins had characters have sex with their underwear on - I'd say that was a net negative outcome for RPG fans.
This issue comes up every time censorship is mentioned - "this is crap, why is it allowed? why isn't it censored?" - and the issue is that it's a lot more complicated to censor some things and not others. Take this, for example: Dungeoneer: Beautiful Escape is absolutely awful in terms of content - a game where you play a serial killer who seduces and lures victims to his house, strips them naked and throws them in his dungeon, and then tortures them as they try to escape with the goal of breaking them both mentally and physically while video taping it all. It's also a game that's really good and worth playing. How do you make a filter that filters out objectionable content without also filtering out games like that?
So my opinion is that if you want to post pornographic images or links to PornTube or whatever, you need to take that somewhere else - SG isn't the place for that. If you want to make giveaways for Steam games, even if those games do not appeal to me or might even repulse me, go right ahead - that's what this site is for.
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Thanks for the interesting and thoughtful reply. I do recall the Mass Effect fiasco - basically a tempest in a teapot created by media outlets to trigger moms everywhere, and I agree, the outcome was not good. I haven't actually played the original Witcher, but I even with the cards,(and when I go to its Steam page, I don't see that content, which does make a difference to me personally) I can distinguish between a fully developed RPG that includes some sexual content and Hentai Shooter, in much the same way I can differentiate between a main stream movie that includes sexual content and an exclusively pornographic movie. This seems to work, not perfectly I realize, for the film industry, but not so much for gaming, I'm guessing because it's a lot easier for the MPAA to keep up with new content than it is for the ESRB - that is, if they are even looking at crappy little cash grab indies - which I doubt. That said, I'm not sure outside regulation is the answer, even if it were feasible (thinking about Mass Effect again). All that I know is that with the daily influx of new games, it's chaos, and as you've pointed out, Steam can't deal with it.
Dungeoneer wasn't even on my radar. It seems to fall in with games about murder that were recently discussed in another thread. I'm not sure that I understand the quandary, though. As with any genre, if you filter it out, you will be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, or else remove the filter and search out the ones that are worth playing.
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Oh, I completely agree that you and I can look at The Witcher and see that it's a full fledged game with years of effort and craft poured into it (the sex cards were part of the Director's Cut DLC, btw, and the Director's Cut was criticized for them by the media), while Hentai Shooter looks like a low effort cash grab directed at horny folks. But, as much as I would love to be able to rid Steam of crap games, I don't think we should disallow giveaways for games that you and I think are crap or force their removal from Steam - that would be unfair to people who might actually enjoy such games.
Dungeoneer was an example I used in a different thread arguing that games with clearly offensive content should be banned from Steam. And I get where that person was coming from, stumbling across a game that was certainly offensive, but there's no way to ban terrible offensive games without also banning good games that also have offensive content. It's as you said, babies... bathwater, everything gets thrown out, and then you wonder why your trash smells and your neighbors look at you with disapproval. ;)
The MPAA just does film ratings, and it's certainly a lot easier to rate a 1.5-2 hour movie where all the content is easily viewed than a game that could be dozens or hundreds of hours long and may have hidden content, never mind that there are about 10 times as many games released on Steam each year as there are movies released in theaters - and even then some indie movies remain Unrated. But, crucially, the MPAA doesn't moderate what movies are allowed to release in theaters, they just assign ratings to movies that are submitted. Theaters are free to show NC-17 adult only movies and Unrated movies.
And Steam likewise applies ratings based on developer info, flagging games for General Mature Content, Frequent Violence and Gore, Nudity or Sexual Content, and Adult Only Sexual Content. Games that fall under such categories are behind an age check, and Adult Only games require that you log into your Steam account, pass an age check, and click to confirm that you're going to be viewing Adult Only content and are okay with it.
If there was a MovieTicketGifts website where people could give away movie tickets to see movies at the theater, and someone was giving away tickets to an adult only movie that you considered pornographic, would you still claim that MovieTicketGifts is allowing pornography on their site?
I would argue that the site is just facilitating the giveaway of movie tickets to go see a movie, it's the theater that's providing the content and is responsible for who goes to view such content.
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Perhaps you misunderstood me? I was discussing rating systems for better filtering and guidelines, not censorship. I do know the MPAA just does ratings, which is why I brought it up and compared its ability to function effectively compared to the ESRB, which is also just a rating system, but the one that is relevant here. The question is, can Steam actually self-regulate effectively and is relying on devs to do that for them a good idea. It's kind of like asking a movie production company to rate their own film.
In answer to your question regarding a MovieTicketGifts site, I would say yes, there is some degree of responsibility there as they are providing a gateway. Please also consider that movie theaters can't be held responsible for who is allowed to buy tickets and view films either. They are self regulating in response to community pressure. I don't believe that responsibility is a yes/no issue - there are always degrees where there is some participation.
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I must have misunderstood, yes. I think Steam's current rating system is pretty similar, since it categorizes games into containing one of the four things I mentioned or none of them. And they kind of have to rely on developers disclosing the content of their games, since it's unrealistic to expect someone to play every game that releases on Steam (and just playing a game is no guarantee that you won't miss some content). I believe Steam has policies in place that would punish developers who do not accurately disclose their games' content.
Actually, for what it's worth, I think movie theaters actually can be held responsible. But I totally agree with you that there are always degrees. :)
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well that is what Hentai actually means.. nude drawn girls... even if Valve will block all of this logic, shitty devs will still put such crap under a normal game name...
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Its not a "game" that belongs on Steam, but as i see it all Steam games are allowed here. More a question what Valve allows or not. For the ones who think it is "cool" or "arousing" i find it not being so. Looks like crap anyway. Really bad drawing.
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I think SG should not be in the business of moderating what Steam games should and should not be allowed to be given away. I think such a task goes well beyond the scope and ability of SG (it proved to be beyond the ability of Valve, and that's a much bigger, much better funded company with much more resources), and that SG should not be in such a position in the first place.
The giveaway in question doesn't show anything objectionable. In order to see anything objectionable, you have to follow the link to Steam, log into your Steam account, pass an age check, and state that you are okay with viewing such content - at which point you have left SG far behind, and SG shouldn't be responsible for what you do elsewhere on the Internet.
SG already has some tools to limit your exposure to seeing unwanted giveaways. You can chose to hide DLC for any game you do not own, you can browse only using the Wishlist and Recommended links (that's all I do), and if you do see an unwanted giveaway you can click an icon next to it to hide all copies of that giveaway going forward.
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Wait, SG isn't responsible for what I do elsewhere on the internet!?
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Valve does though?
No.porn if you disable the "mature content filter".
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Not really much else one can do on the net. All porn-sites use the simple "are you 18?"
Valve hides the pr0ns better than they do.
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But how is that effectively different from the current sollution: a checkbox that, if unmarked, hides them all?
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And most people already leave the checkbox alone.
And I am still not sure why the game store needs a better more thorough agecheck than a pornsite. Maybe if they could show by default, but they don't. You explicitly need to enable them.
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Okay and allowed by logical context.
The site prohibits pornography as its largely beyond the purpose of the place, and would complicate the functionality with additional concerns related to that direct content. Its a standard condition (seen in most all sites that aren't specifically dedicated towards pornography) for simplify.
The site's purpose is, however, giving away Steam gifts/games/products/whatever. Consequently, that would indeed include games which feature pornographic content----among other things---as the specific content isn't actually any concern of the site's scope in facilitating those giveaways.
Those limitations on pornographic postings aren't the central purpose here, or implemented in fulfilling some mandate from heaven. They're just a matter of ordinary rule and regulation to smooth things along. The mere existence of adjacent content in games (or even on the linked store pages) isn't going to supersede the normal functionality of the site. That would fundamentally misinterpret the reasons for prohibiting pornography at the expense of the sites real purpose.
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I put in a ticket to find out what admin thinks of it - no response yet.
First of all, if you expect any kind of feedback when you send in a ticket, please don't use the "User report" category. It's literally the only category where comments are disabled an we cannot answer.
Now, regarding your concern, I personally have no problem with the banner image. While it might be a bit suggestive, there's no nudity on there and (to my knowledge) Valve would not allow it anyway. The content of the Steam store page could be a bit more problematic, however that's not something that does appear on Steamgifts. You have to visit a page outside of our site to view it and they have their own filter where you need to accept seeing adult content.
Also, unfortunately, the Steam API does not appear to provide any info pertaining to the title being adult-only so automating flagging of those could be a challenge.
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Yes, my mistake. In fact, I only just realized that I could have closed the ticket myself yesterday, which I would have done, since I now have a better understanding of why I was seeing it in the first place. When I went to the store page to check if or why my filters weren't working I wasn't prompted to accept seeing adult content for this DLC, though I am for the base game of course. Still a mystery to me why Steam is unable to link the two for flagging purposes, but I'll admit, my knowledge of how this works (or doesn't) is lacking.
Thanks very much for your reply in spite of me screwing up the ticket - that was nice of you.
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The Steam Store API provides this information, e.g. https://store.steampowered.com/api/appdetails?appids=1045350&l=english
"content_descriptors":{"ids":[1,3,5],"notes":"This game have Nudity and Sexual Content."
Not sure what the id's translate too, but the adult games seem to have descriptor 3 in common.
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I dont understand Japanese culture. And this may not have anything to do with this.
But for you to say you cannot stand another culture or thinking is the definition of bigotry.
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Thanks for the ad, bought the game for reasons and won the DLC, win-win.
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Well this is even taking it to a next level.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/981300/PUSSY/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1045340/PUSSY_2/
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I think Steam should have another category because this really isn't covered by "adult game". I'm thinking "kid bait" but only because "crappy not-games with title bait" doesn't sound quite right.
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I've enjoyed this topic for all the wrong reasons. The only thing missing is a chart. We love charts here, so how about a chart of all the 'offensive' games on Steam so we can buy avoid them?
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I never shitpost. I never start threads, but I read them and I comment now and then. I enjoy this community and giving away and winning games. But this really bothers me. I put in a ticket to find out what admin thinks of it - no response yet. So I just want to know what others think of it.
this
and this
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