Oklahoma.

A guy breaks into a house where two young women live. He shoots one, and buries her alive. He rapes the other. On Tuesday, he was killed by lethal injection. But. They fucked up. He took 45 minutes to die, and he died in agony. Source

So, what do you think SG? Did he deserve it? Is it barbaric?

10 years ago*

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In one way yes, in another no.
It was a horrible thing he did and probably deserved to suffer, however there's enough stories of people turning their lives around, it's possible they may have realized what they did was sick and terrible and ended up teaching others that they definitely should not do such the same.

10 years ago
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For every person who turns their life around, there's several who try to do so and fail, and scores more who never do and remain a threat to society.

Not saying we shouldn't try to reform people who have committed crimes. Just saying we need to be aware that an occasional diamond doesn't make the rest less rough.

10 years ago
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Should of just shot him, but what evs. making him suffer for 45 minutes is still less torturous than locking him in a cage for 45 years.

10 years ago
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I think....mistakes can happen, no biggie.

10 years ago
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10 years ago
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They did him a favor by killing him, even like that. If he went to prison as soon as the other inmates knew what was he is in for, his life would be a living hell, as long he managed to live at least. Even the worst cold blooded killers dont like baby rapists and killers.

10 years ago
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no one won anything by having him suffer before his death

10 years ago
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+1

10 years ago
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+1

10 years ago
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I don't think a common man has enough knowledge to make judgement like that. While he certainly did something unforgivable and fowl beyond words making him suffer won't bring the girl back and the other girl will still have been raped. Other than that I don't really have any opinion about should he have suffered more or less.

10 years ago
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+1.

10 years ago
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Knowing the food chain in US prisons, he was better off this way.

10 years ago
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I wonder if this thread will be closed due to being political in nature.

10 years ago
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Is that a rule?

10 years ago
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The rules do ask you to "avoid" political discussions on the forums. Avoid in quotes because that's the word they use. So it's not strictly forbidden but they would like you to stay away from it.

10 years ago
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Okay. Thanks for clarifying. So who's a liberal and who's an idiot? jk

10 years ago
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America needs to get get out of the third world and join us people in civilized first world countries in the EU. American people have a grave sickness and they need treating.

10 years ago
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Without America there would be no E.U. While we were latecomers to both World Wars (a stain upon our honor) we saved your asses. Be a little more grateful.

10 years ago
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Last I checked, soldiers from several E.U. countries have been fighting and dying alongside ours out of loyalty to us in the wake of 9/11. Perhaps instead of beating that old dead horse as an excuse to plug our ears, we should also be grateful and respectful. In any case, the person has a point. We're the only first-world nation still using the death penalty, have the highest rate of incarceration per capita, have a rate of gun crime that is absolutely insane, and so on. Clearly, something somewhere in our culture or system is totally messed up. It's not working. If we can't admit it's not working, how can we ever hope to address the issue?

That being said, I would agree that the blanket statement about us having a grave sickness and being in the third world was rude and uncalled for. I understand the point, but it really should have been made in a different way.

10 years ago
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I am deeply opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The UN was too, if I remember correctly. The problem with the gun crime rate is derivative from our complete failing to reverse segregation in almost every sense. Very few of those crimes are committed outside of the ghettos.

10 years ago
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"Very few" being, in this case, an extremely relative statement. Even eliminating the gang violence and such, we still have a very clear gun problem when compared to other first-world, and even several second and third-world countries. Putting it on a failure to reverse segregation ignores a far wider aspect of the problem. Our culture is bogged down in paranoia and fear, creating a love affair with guns in a country where anyone of any age and any mental condition can gain possession of a firearm extremely easily. What do any of us really expect the results of such a culture to be? Watch Fox News for an hour on any given day, as an excellent example, or listen to the recordings recently released of the guy that executed the teens who broke into his house. His rambling is indicative of a behavior and thought process that is not all that rare in our country. I hear similar rants quite frequently. Heck, look at the battles with the BLM right now and hear what the supporters out there with their guns are saying. For that matter, just look at how extreme many of our recent "non-ghetto" gun crimes have been and what the perpetrators had to say about what they did.

I am very opposed to the wars as well. It doesn't change the fact that, when we did go to war, our allies went right alongside us, and have lost many soldiers as a result.

10 years ago
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The homicide rate with firearms in large cities, e.g. ghetto areas, is approximately 4 times the rate in non-ghetto areas. Granted, firearms are a problem, but what solution is there for the removal of these weapons? We can't take them away because that would cause only criminals to own guns. They are far too prevalent a black-market item to be at all regulated, and many county sheriffs have said they will refuse to enforce any gun restriction laws.

The speech you speak of in regards to firearms belongs to the extremely vocal minority. They profess that their 2nd Amendment rights are being violated without looking at more important problems like segregation, illegal taxation, bad immigration policy, and extreme factionalism that's ruining the country, not to mention our very messed up foreign policy.

There was no reason for our allies to go to war. They should have simply refused, and recognized Bush for either the liar or misguided individual that he is.

10 years ago
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I didn't say I knew the answers to our problems. Only that I recognize them for what they are, and that I feel it is only by recognizing them that we can have any hope of ever addressing them. Not to mention, understanding why sometimes people from other countries for whom these problems are far more reduced make comments like the ones above. Especially considering that they're often privy to those news stories as well, and understandably shake their head at them. The rest of what you say is definitely highly debatable, and I'm not here for a debate. We could discuss these issues all week and get nowhere. I will just say, you can't really chastise someone on the grounds that we "saved their asses" in the world wars and tell them to be "more grateful" but then refuse to respect the fact that their soldiers have died with ours in Iraq and Afghanistan far more recently on the grounds you oppose the wars and "they should have simply refused." The logic there simply doesn't work. That's all I've been saying. The original comment was rude and uncalled for, as I said before, but your chastisement over it is ridiculous as well, and makes us come across as a bit of a hypocritical laughingstock.

10 years ago
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When the international community decides that wars are illegitimate, its unacceptable for any country to fight them, unless there are extreme circumstances. The UN said that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were illegitimate. The fact that any country fought them is disturbing. But in WWI and WWII the Allies fought against an cruel and truly evil enemy. We became that enemy in Vietnam and Korea and continue to be that enemy to this day, with our unfounded invasions of sovereign states and refusal to uphold treaties with our allies (Ukraine).

10 years ago
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And we joined in with WWI and WWII out of the kindness of our hearts and concern for the innocent people whose "asses" we saved? Yeah, I didn't think so. So, let's just stop harping on it and beating the dead horse like anyone owes us anything for it, shall we?

10 years ago
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He insulted the US. I told him he wouldn't be here without it. Don't see why you had such a problem with that.

10 years ago
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Because, I think that U.S. citizens have enough trouble with our image in other countries without going around at every turn deliberately furthering one of the worst stereotypes about us. Besides, I doubt you helped his negative perception of our country in any way with your statements, especially given far more recent events.

10 years ago
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Right. We should all shut up and just accept abuse. I bet you were great with bullies.

10 years ago
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No nation on this planet, except for the indigenous people, are better than everyone else. Whether it is the British, Germans (1933-1945), the U.S. Americans, Christians, Muslims etc. There are all mass murderers. The U.S. Americans made it to the Native Americans (Indians), the British with the Boers, the Germans the Jews and the Christians had with all what is not "God" worshiped.

10 years ago
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You're kidding about the indigenous people, no? Look up the Hutus and Tutsis. Its truly sickening. It has nothing to do with countries or nationalities, its about human nature. We're intelligent. We understand that our survival can only come at the expense of others, be they human or animal or inanimate. We've caused a change in the atmosphere of the planet that will take thousands of years to undo only so that a few rich people could make an extra buck.

10 years ago
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Deserved to die, yes. The torture? As it wasn't intentional, there is no moral issue about it. Besides, the torture he'll get in hell will make that hour feel like a vacation.

The other guy is just as much an animal, and deserves a death as well, even if they manage a quick one. Why postpone eternal punishment?

10 years ago
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Of course there's a moral issue. It's ridiculous to suggest that a mistake has no moral consequences. The specific moral issue I was asking about was whether or not you think he deserved it.

10 years ago
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10 years ago
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The moral issue is if you think society's killing is murder or not. I think its just what we call "justified." You, clearly, do not. Good talk.

10 years ago
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10 years ago
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Id that's your justification for torture then you're sadly mistaken, and it may be time to rethink that idea. Its been proven by sociological studies to be entirely false. The Sandy Hook guy didn't give a shit what happened to him, he just wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. Why should an arbitrary decision-maker decide anything pertaining to life itself, something guaranteed by our Declaration of Independence? The number of people falsely convicted of murder isn't negligible either.

10 years ago
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10 years ago
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Personally, I'm deeply and truly, beyond anything else in the world, afraid of death. I'm afraid of the nothingness that I know must come with death. I'm afraid that I will cease to exist. My life has value to me. Your life has value to me. That rapist-murderer's life has value to me because I hate death. I despise it for causing me fear and depression, for making my life almost unbearable at times.

10 years ago
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I can't even imagine feeling that way about death. Personally I am looking forward to it, it's just going to be exactly how it was before I was born, and that wasn't scary.

10 years ago
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Death is as natural as birth and I don't see anything horrible about it.

10 years ago
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I don't want to experience it. Sorry if that makes me crazy.

10 years ago
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I think that if people are not willing to respect and act within society's accepted rules, they should not be part of that society. To that end, I would like such criminals to be exiled to a place that they're not part of the aforementioned society. I'm okay with certain crimes being punished with death, but ideally this would be reserved for cases where there is no doubt that the criminal is guilty and there is no chance of reform.

It should be noted that I live in the UK, where the prison system is mostly funded by taxes. The annual cost of our prison system is in excess of £6bn.

10 years ago
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I agree with the part about acting within society's rules. This applies to us as well, and if killing isn't okay in a society it shouldn't perpetrate it either.

Maybe put everyone convicted for murder or other horrendous crimes into a work camp where their needs are taken care of, along with a few luxuries as well. That way these people pay for their imprisonment, don't die, and have a chance to lead happy lives as well.

10 years ago
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I don't agree with the death penalty, and not because I think of it as murder, immoral or anything like that. I just think it is much more of an punishment to rot in a tiny cell for the rest of his life, while the death penalty is an "easy way out".

10 years ago
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10 years ago
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I completely agree with you, I also believe rehabilitation is the key, and I think countries like America is not doing it right. Atleast from what I have learned about their prison systems.
I am proud of the prison system we have here in Norway, wich do focus heavily on rehabilitation instead of punishment. We have a recidivism rate of around 20% while America have around 67%

10 years ago
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we should work out a deal, lets export all our death row inmates to the EU countries for rehabilitation, revoke their citizenship and add them to the no entry list.
then everyone is happy. put up or shut up Norway. ;P

10 years ago
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In law? Definately not, he supposedly only desrve the death sentence.

In common sense, yep and so does the system of death sentence. Tell me why it is immoral.

10 years ago
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I typically believe in equal crime and punishment. I believe a life in prison can be even worse than the death penalty so I would probably go with that.

10 years ago
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Or you could believe in mercy - and let the man live comfortably in prison with plenty of amenities while working for his own food and housing.

10 years ago
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so slavery then. historically(in england i think? i just remember from somewhere) that sort of thing led to a higher conviction rate/harsher sentencing whenever the government had a work project that needed completing, or at least the fear and insinuation of that

10 years ago
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Seeing as how we have juries for these things, I find that highly unlikely. And its not any more slavery than the condition poor blacks and hispanics deal with in the ghettos of America: sell drugs and die young or get a job, be hungry because that job doesn't pay enough, and have kids that to the former.

But technically, yes slavery. Regulated, not harsh, and more forgiving than death or hard jail time. More useful too. All parties come out of this better.

10 years ago
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They should bring back stoning, also death by snu snu.

10 years ago
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I agree with death by snu snu

10 years ago
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Yes, it is barbaric and he deserved it.

However, keep in mind the man's suffering was not intentional.

If it is found that anyone deliberately adjusted (or was negligent) the lethal injection mixture/procedure to cause him to suffer, that party will be tried for murder.

Thanks for the GA. :)

10 years ago
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False. The man was already on death row, anyone who tampered with the cocktail can't be charged with anything other than criminal negligence, I believe. But the grieving family can sue for millions.

10 years ago
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He deserved it, the agony should have lasted longer though.

10 years ago
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And nothing of value was lost that Tuesday

10 years ago
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I couldn't care less. I don't feel sorry for such fucked up people.

10 years ago
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Fuck him, should have lasted longer. Sucks for the people who had to sit through it tho...

10 years ago
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fuck it, who cares. we don't have any proof the injection doesn't feel like your veins are on fire anyway(maybe they just aren't able to speak enough to say anything)

10 years ago
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Serves him right, I say. It's not like HE was asking his victims if they are OK when he was killing/raping them, you know.

IMHO, the society cares too much about the criminals' rights and too little about the rights of their victims.

10 years ago
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Yup. Because torturing another person when sanctioned by a court makes it okay. All manner of cruel punishments are morally allowable when an arbitrary committee says so.

Come on this isn't Iran, it America.

10 years ago
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Now if people in USA just worked for those morals...

10 years ago
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Better than under sharia law still though...

10 years ago
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There are many animals(literally) out there that kill for fun. We are just like them, killing for fun, even the death of this killer is definitely fun for a lot of people.

10 years ago
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i'm against death sentence no matter what. but i just can't feel bad about him sufferring. he deserves even more.

10 years ago
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Closed 10 years ago by taytothief.