Oklahoma.

A guy breaks into a house where two young women live. He shoots one, and buries her alive. He rapes the other. On Tuesday, he was killed by lethal injection. But. They fucked up. He took 45 minutes to die, and he died in agony. Source

So, what do you think SG? Did he deserve it? Is it barbaric?

10 years ago*

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shit happens.
couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
on the bright side at least he got to be alive right up til he wasn't. just being switched off or put down like a pet seems worse from a psychological angle...like how the idea of dieing in your sleep is scary as hell, (or is that just me?).


the article didn't mention it just "untested coctail" but last time this happened the bit they left off was like a sedative anyway so for all we know maybe it always feels like that and usually they just completely lack the ability to show it. (that happens sometimes with anesthetics for surgery for example, you're awake can't move and you can feel everything while they're cutting on you))


besides it was just a heart attack. not like they guy hemorrhaged from his eyes caught leprosy and then exploded or something.
I can think of tons and tons of worse ways to die. getting eaten alive for example. that happens to lots of things every day, sometimes even humans still. burned/raped is one he knew of, i already mentioned the theoretical ebola/lepracy/bloodsplosion.... most diseases and alot of "war" type deaths seem much messier than this, so do most accidents. people die sucky ways all the time whats he theoretically whining about(posthumously)?

blame europe for hoarding all the good poison for some unknown (likely nefarious) purpose, its the only reason they had to tweak the formula in the first place.

if heartattack was good enough for some random teen od it was more than good enough for this guy, not like it was intentional.

10 years ago
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Leprosy is a skin diseason caused by mostly-extinct bacteria... maybe you're thinking of something else? The content here is just too gruesome to argue with.

10 years ago
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its a skin disease caused by our overzealous immunesystem after curbstomping a mostly-extinct bacteria that would have just given us the flu or something :P

10 years ago
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Barbaric?
No.
It's more, in the typical use of this word, sophisticated, and civilized. But that doesn't mean it's any better.

He didn't deserve it though, most likely, which is why I disagree with all this disgusting lethal injections that happen in the west.
I don't support the death penalty, or really any corporal punishment, however, because people are so stupid and furious and love giving their money and dedication to a crime system, I can't eliminate it. However, rather than lethal injection, they should do something more humane.
If you must be sadistic and furious, like most, either approve of torture as a punishment, or accept a proven killing method, such as firing squad, beheading, etc, etc...

So in conclusion, no, it wasn't barbaric, no he didn't deserve it, but rather the entire system and mind-set of people is barbaric and full of revenge.
Ideally, in my world, everyone who administered and approved the injection should be hung in public. Whoever ordered him to be injected like this should be tortured to death, be it burned alive, given pills to induce a heart attack, or whatever it may be. Why? Well, while I don't approve of these practices, if you practice them, you deserve it inflicted back upon you.

And to the SG community, obviously, as you may suspect if you read my post, the majority of you deserve far worse than he got? Why?
Well you're full of hate, revenge, and sadistic thoughts. You're worse than he likely ever was.

10 years ago
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If its a fear of false positives on convictions thats one thing but that isn't the argument you made.


so whats the alternative sweeden's ridiculous out in 15 no matter the crime or how many repetitions system(a selfserving morally soothing lie anyway, they've got this one serial killer with a functional life sentence cause the judge just keeps stacking another 20 on every time it runs out because its up for review not an actual expiration)? or are you talking about permanent incarceration? life in prison is pointless.
pointless for the guy waking up every day just waiting for his lifespan to tick down, pointless use of resources like food we don't have enough of already, pointless as a punishment(nothing you do brings victims back best you can get is preventing future cases by getting someone dangerous out of circulation), can't even get work out of em cause thats too easy to abuse...but most of all its significantly more pointless than all of that other stuff when done just to soothe a collective conscience. You're taking a man's life either way, may as well be honest about it.

if it weren't for the probability of corruption somewhere(political bro needs a heart and frames a match comes to mind quickly enough) I'd be happy enough with sentencing to braindeath and kept for spare parts... but other than that why keep anybody alive but not living?

10 years ago
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I'm not speaking of any incarceration, especially life.
Sweden's system is better than most, and would probably be almost perfect in reality, as you can't have everything exactly perfect.

I'm saying the majority, of 95% of prisoners, especially in some departments, are in there for no reason other than peoples hatred and sadistic desires. Sure, someone who ties up a baby and tortures them and kills them isn't a very nice fella, and I wouldn't care what comes upon him, however, the guy who pirates something, gets in a fight, possesses a firearm, or even molests a child (without further abuse) doesn't deserve what they're given as a punishment, for in most cases, can be a victimless, or fairly victimless crime where barely any damage was sustained.
What I'm arguing as that the ENTIRE system of punishment is bullshit, as it is a system of punishment. Just as I don't agree with a system of punishment for "criminals," I don't agree with it in any situation, be it with your "rebel" teenage son, or your toddler who won't stop knocking things over on, what you believe, is on purpose.

If you dehumanize anyone, just because of what someone says they did, or what they feel, then I don't care what happens to you. Why?
Well, while you're still a human, I just don't care. You're on a righteous quest that can't be rationed with.

10 years ago
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Oh, and as a note, I didn't even look at the article, I heard of this story, I don't know any details, as it should be irrelevant in my opinion.
That's why I included reasonable doubt that ___ could be worse than him, because in certain cases, very very rare cases, there are exceptions. Sometimes people are truly soulless monsters, but typically, that is not the case. Typically they just acted outside the norm, felt different from the public, or generally did a victimless crime, or had an issue that led to the crime.
Other times however, like I can only assume over the few words of the case I read in this thread, now, they raped a little kid (girl), and showed them no mercy, had no reason to do it, and yada yada, complicated stuff, and therefore, I really don't care what happens to them. They could be tortured till they die for all I care.
However, that still doesn't take away the generality from the case(s). It still doesn't take away that cases, assuming everything I'm assuming is true, is common whatsoever, nor do I promote torture of the individual. I simply don't care about them whatsoever.

10 years ago
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tldr...basically some babyrapist spent a few decades on death row and was finally up for execution rather than draw it out any longer. but just at that moment various european companies(more than happy with selling death anyway) decided to get political and withheld the chemicals we use to put them down clean so somebody had to get creative with what turned out to basically be a syringe full of (not literal)bleach to a predictable end an the family is hoping to make a quick buck while providing a nice feather for the lawyer's cap for kicking it into the media.

10 years ago
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Yes, but as I said, him being a "babyrapist" has nothing to do with it.
Nothing whatsoever.
Sure, they makes it so that I really don't care about him, or what happened to him, if he actually did and they aren't just revving up the moral crusade, but they doesn't take away the fact that just that is happening.
A big moral crusade gets revved up, people dehumanize them, and instead of just removing them from society, or the world, they want them to suffer. Be it through bleach in their veins, or "administered by filling an airtight room with pure nitrogen gas and letting the person suffocate," as KaintukeeBob said, and many others.

That's the issue I have.
Those types of people deserve nothing better than what they wish on him, even if everything is true of what has been said about him. These types of people are far more dangerous than him in my opinion, as he is controllable, while these are everywhere and as the fair majority, uncontrollable.
These types of people, as you mentioned in the other post you made in a reply to my post, connects to what I feel here. While they will not only push for convictions of the innocent just out of this blind hate, and lie, which makes me doubt all the facts of this story, as most, they will go out and take "justice" into their own hands. They'll take their crusade down and burn a man alive, they'll go and spread rumors about someone to ruin their life, or get them fired, or arrested, all because they couldn't get what they wanted originally.
It's disgusting.

10 years ago
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didn't read the answers. i'll just put this url here and go away.
Norway Mass Killer Gets the Maximum: 21 Years

10 years ago
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Just by the way, those sentences can be re-applied as many times as desired.
He'll never get out if the government stays the same, as they'll likely still hate his guts and be too fearful from public outcry, regardless of if he is rehabilitated or not.

10 years ago
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"He'll never get out if the government stays the same"
so norway people need to elect same goverment as long as that dude lives to keep that psychopath behind the bars.

"they'll likely still hate his guts and..."
i know about that five more years thing (but don't know how it's called obviously). but some people will make the decision and people are stupid. so he has a chance to get out every frickin' five years.

btw i don't know if it's true but i read that he lives in a pretty good cell. i'm sure it seems just to those 77 victims' families too.

10 years ago
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The judge will just keep on adding the extra 5 years. Its basically life-imprisonment.

10 years ago
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how can you be 100% sure?

10 years ago
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I can't be. But I do have faith in the good of humanity. Apropos of your reply to Zachary above, it doesn't matter what those 77 victims' families think. They're inherently biased towards the issue.

10 years ago
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my english skilz are not enough to keep up with you. so i'll just finish this with a good wish. i hope your loved ones never suffer such horrible deaths by someone that messed up.

10 years ago
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Right. That we an definitely agree on. You too, friend.

10 years ago
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Unless he'll get good acting lessons, get Oscar for "convincing judges I'm good boy" scene.

And then kill another 70 people.

He has 20 years to practice...

10 years ago
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a selfserving blatant lie that lets them feel morally superior to everybody without actually having to do anything differently. those sentences can be reapplied indefinitely once they run out.

10 years ago
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I don't think they do, except extreme circumstances like this one.

10 years ago
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okay, i already admitted i suck at english but it's disturbing when i can't understand anything. what are you guys talking about?

10 years ago
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i meant they get to say it doesn't ruin lives because sentences are capped without sentences actually being capped(only capped technically not in practice) so you can just carry on as normal.

so you get a 20 year sentence with a dozen 5 year bonus rounds instead of just saying up front it would be life

10 years ago
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do or don't its still troubling they reserve that right(if you're into that sort of thing i mean) can you imagine america trying to pull that? you'd get the aclu or whatever group does prisoners up your ass.

10 years ago
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I don't know how to react to this kind of things ... in a way, can we say someone deserves something like this ? or even death penalty to start with. But then i just can't have an opinion because if someone does something horrible to a member of my family, i'd go crazy and want the person to fucking suffer more than he would in hell. I mean I just know i'd be like this if something like this happened to my family. I'd loose anything that gets close to mercy ... But nothing like this happened and i would be here saying no one deserves this. Wouldn't that be hypocritical ? I think that as long as nothing like this happened to someone close to us we just can't have a "real" opinion ... It will always change depending on the situation.

10 years ago
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"And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe." -Exodus 21:23-25

His life for the first one. His pain for the second.

10 years ago
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Seeing as how it in the "Old Testament" I think, as a well-learned Jew, that I should clarify something for you. This applies only to monetary compensation. The intent was never to gouge out someone's eye for the same act. An eye must be payed in restitution to the man who lost it. What good does a half-blind man have for a worthless piece of flesh?

10 years ago
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I think the death penalty should only be imposed on those convicted especially heinous murderers AND who are a continuing threat to those who would have to be imprisoned with them and those who have to care for them while in prison. In the USA it is used far too often and is mostly used because prosecutors want to appear "tough on crime" which plays well to the voting public. It should not be completely done away with, but should only be used in very special cases. An example would be Ted Bundy, when he escaped while on trial he end up killing more women. Even if he would have been put in a maximum security lockdown prison he still would have posed a fatal threat to anyone having contact with him, he just couldn't stop killing for what ever reason. You also must remember too that someone has to preform the executions, and how negatively is that going to affect those with the responsibility. Personally I think if you are going to convict someone to death you should witness the execution, that requirement alone would reduce the number of death penalties imposed.

10 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 1 year ago.

10 years ago
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+1, sort of. I guess more like +1/2

10 years ago
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I always find it funny that anyone thinks this is a civilized society, I haven't seen one in my life....

10 years ago
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I don't think capital punishment is ever good answer. Most reasonable thing is to get person help to understand what his actions where and possibly redeem him. If not safe for general population keep the person in controlled environment(not a prison necessarily) as long as is needed.

10 years ago
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This wouldn't work ... i don't think you can "fix" people ... maybe there are some rare exceptions out there, but would you take the risk to release a monster like this ?

10 years ago
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Yes if to reasonable degree he can be considered to be safe.

10 years ago
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not like there aren't plenty of other people who haven't already proven they're barely human complete assholes. dude blew his chance. instead of wasting time or resources throwing good money after bad just for a "bite me twice" scenario with some collateral damage(a murderer's relapse means at least one productive citizen wasted on this guy) the hive/society/country/species would be better off just killing the guy and pull some random kid out of somewhere shitty like starvation africa to start over. give that chance at being a productive citizen to a fresh human that probably actually deserves it. all that money and effort on parole officers and jail guards and catching the guy again, feeding in prison ect could do more good elsewhere.

we've got too much fresh renewable human resource rotting on the vine anyway to bother digging through garbage trying to salvage and recycle because maybe one or two can be repurposed somehow. whats the refurbish rate on babyrapists anyway? cant see it being all that high.

10 years ago
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+infinite

10 years ago
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Resocialization in such a case is a sick and disgusting idea. It's basically rewarding someone for destroying someone else's life.

10 years ago
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One question is does the system exist to punish or to correct the problem or prevent some problems?

I believe the correction and prevention is more moral way.

10 years ago
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You can't prevent what already happened. You can't correct someone else's suffering, either. It should be about victims, not criminals.

10 years ago
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Yes, so what's the use in doing fucking nothing for the victim, as you can't correct their suffering, while creating more suffering through victimizing the one who committed the crime, the "criminal."
So why create another victim, but also dread onto the past, as well as make the new victim suffer, causing them to breed more hate and isolation, so that they'll commit worse.

10 years ago
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offing the monster prevents future victims. so all you need is for the guy if left alone to target 2 or more people and you win on the balance even if you assign all suffering equal value with no judgements.

(lets say each killer would need to on average attack 3 to give slack to round off the odd unlikely mistaken identities and wrong convictions.)

10 years ago
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But if you treat someone who wants to do like someone who did ____, regardless, the one who did nothing will become depressed, and dehumanized, and will be more likely to commit .

10 years ago
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oh no I'm not allowed to live near playgrounds, i know what'll cheer me up some little boy ass. damn you society for making me a terrible person with your judgement. I take no responsibilities for my own actions whatsoever

10 years ago
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More like "Oh, well if anyone knew the true me, they'd hate me. When I tried to come out to my friend he told me I was sick and perverted and should be killed, and now he never talks to me. I don't know why I am this way, but I hate it, I hate liking kids this way. I don't love them, I can't love them, people like me can't love, we're sick. I don't want to love them, I just want to hurt them. I want to make them cry, I don't love them. I don't want to play with them, I don't want to make them smile, stop lying, I'm sick. Why do I want to rape kids? Why does everyone call me sick whenever I say who I am anonymously? Why can't people just accept me, I just want a friend, I don't even need sex, I just want a daughter. You don't want anything to do with kids, just to rape them and hurt them, that's it. If I ever do anything I'll have to kill her because if I don't she'll suffer. We'll die together. But I don't want to hurt her...just rape her. I can't be around my cousins anymore, they're having a baby girl, and I know I can't be around them. I know I want to hurt them. Why is being around their baby so fun, I thought I hated babies. They're so fun. I can't go around them anymore, because I'll hurt them. I know I will, I'm a monster."

Then just continue this on slowly fighting their self till they snap at a depressed moment, and commit, and you have a rape/murder again.

TL;DR - You understood nothing of what I said, I spoke of the one who did nothing.
The one who thought to do something, but didn't. Because of this they go insane, and eventually are more likely to commit. Why? They feel they have to, because that's what they are. That everything they feel is a lie, because people like "me" don't exist, none actually love kids, etc etc...

Hopefully I didn't fuck anything up, as I don't proof-read anything, and it seemed a little choppy when I typed it, as it's not something that goes at once, it's more of like one of those videos that go from week to week, showing a few seconds of ones life.

10 years ago
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so pedophiles want to have a coming out party and be accepted for who they are which would help to not molest anybody and just let them play teaparty? but they can't so depression rape happens like a teenage girl on an icecream binge?
theres a difference between liking kids and wanting to hang out with children(in which case you can volunteer at a daycare or cubscouts or teach kindergarden or something) and being sexually attracted to children(in which case definitely do not run a daycare or cubscouts or teach kindergarden or something)

isn't that like saying hetrosexuals (with a sexdrive) would be happy just doing "girlfriend stuff" like handholding and watching movies and never actually getting to the sex because they just love girls and sex is only a way to be close to them? all you need is the disbanding of the "every 7 seconds" myth that pressures them into thinking they want sex(or rape if they can't get any and live with feminazi that call them penismonsters all the time)


i agree enough with the hypothetical saying you might get some legitimately developmentally stalled childlike adult who actually does just want to be around children(like probably michael jackson) get pushed into molesting them because they've stuck on that label to identify as...but i'm pretty sure part of the definition for actual pedophiles would have a lust component despite its literal greek root. otherwise you'd be using the word wrong.

then again i didn't research it much, maybe its a different psychological problem in a different part of the brain than sexual alignment

but how in your theory did this peerpressure type scenario start? some stonage "boylover" had to have raped a kid for people to start treating them as pederasts strongly enough to pressure others to self label and rape kids because they're supposed to now? or did some overprotective parent just decide to be a dick to that friendly neighbor for no reason and it caught on?(i could see that happening actually, but no)


oh yeah, i apparently misread, the baby guy was the one in line behind this one

10 years ago
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Not that "depression rape" happens, but they slowly degrade, they slowly get brainwashed sometimes, and sometimes some slip through the cracks and probably flip out. I can't say for sure, but I know the majority kill their self before becoming what people told them they were.
After they've been dehumanized, hate their self, and have been brainwashed, they'll usually kill their self, or as a coping mechanism, kill their inner self and become what they were told to be, a heartless, soulless, child killer.
None of this is to say it's common, it's just that I know these things happen, and I theorize the ending, that it MAY lead to these things. I've never heard of it happening, and most pedophiles seem to say that they couldn't, so it may not even exist.
I just don't want to be absolute. Regardless, it is bad for their psych, and it's wrong.

Yes, and it seems you haven't even thought that maybe pedophiles experience both. I've never, in my entire life, meeting and speaking to hundreds of pedos, and having a solid 10+ friends that are, have they ever said they didn't love kids deeply.
Never have they not been parental, paternal, maternal, etc etc, whatever you want to call it. If I ever have a child, honestly, if I lived near one of my close friends that are, I wouldn't keep them away from my child. Because like I've said before, they don't care only for sex, and they generally care about the kids. I know my child would be safe and happy, and would certainly not be treated bad like many babysitters seem to do to the kids they "care" for. Of course this assumes my child likes being around them as well, if not, it simply won't work, but typically it seems like kids love pedos just as much they love them, maybe it's because they actually care about their opinion and treat them like humans with opinions. Who knows, I do the same to kids and they usually adore me, that is until they prove me wrong, which some do. Usually they don't though, so that's why I can believe them when they say that kids actually enjoy being around them and they describe _ or __ about how things went.
But anyways, back on topic, lastly, in regards to that paragraph, try finding a male in the daycare field or babysitting field. No one wants to leave their child with one because the pedophilia hysteria that is directed at men, even though over 40% of the pedos I've met were women.
Personally I like playing with kids, and get no sexual things out of it, but I know it's not a likely field for me because I was born with a dick.
But in conclusion, yes, there's a difference, but usually when one likes kids sexually, truly, they truly love kids from what I've found.

In regards to the heterosexual comment, well, theoretically, yes, but I've also never met one that didn't adore their time with the kids in their life. All of them just want to be their friend, then sex if it was possible and no harm would result.
Personally I see anyone who agrees with the 7second stuff or doesn't enjoy doing girl-stuff as a degenerate. But I'm more emotional than sexual just as they usually claim, so there's that. Really I'm almost never sexual to anyone or anything. Maybe that's why I don't hate playing with kids while most men do, because they'd rather be working to fuck someone than to just make someone else smile.


Well the greek root states it as "child love," which is what most pedos seem to stand by, "child lovers," and it's actually accurate in your situation even with a sexual component, seeing as "love" in western society is usually associated with sex as well.
I find it quite funny that you go directly to a developmentally stalled person, sure does show your true colors. It also shows you have no real bases for anything you speak other than what you see in articles run by big business that just tries to give people what they want.

How it started it the propaganda and scapegoating that they do to pedos now a days, sort of like they did to gays back in the day.
Regardless, I might as well stop speaking to you seeing as you still haven't got it through your head that child molester =/= pedophile, and because of this, you can not understand that it could have been started by someone, who in the case you misread, raped, set a baby (11mo old) on fire, and evidently murdered it.
(s)He's not a pedophile at all. But it seems like you group them as one.

10 years ago
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This thought pattern leads to these issues though.
If someone isn't the normal, then they're sick and disgusting, and you should just throw them away, that they aren't human, that they're just sick.
This'll lead the ones who didn't act, but want to, or haven't wanted to, but will, to think they're just that, sick and disgusting.
Obviously that wouldn't be good for someones psych.

And if you know much about psychology, from here you'll see that all you're doing by following this mindset is making more victims, not only of these "monsters," but the people behind these "monsters."

10 years ago
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"just sick" and "not human" have a pretty big gap in them. the ones you're talking about who don't do anything are sick and need to seek help or some kind of preventative measures. its only the ones who act get treated as not human.
(for one thing nobody really even knows about them til they do something anyway. how can you be a diddler if you never diddle?)

10 years ago
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Sick as in they have a mental illness sure, but most uses of that regarding pedos aren't like that, rather, they're like they're "sick and vile and should be killed." While it's the same word, it has two meanings. One is sympathetic in a way and the other is the being of sick. While one who is sick with an illness can be cured, to BE the sickness is not curable. When someone calls someone else sick in the head among other things and wishes death upon them, it is not the same from someone accessing someone accurately or inaccurately, with a sickness.
In most cases, as a result of these differences, sick does equate to not human, or rather, sub-human.

Whether or not they're sick is not relevant in this instance, and I don't really consider it relevant whatsoever in my relationship with the ones I know, so I'll just avoid that altogether and meerly say that, if one hurts no one, and is happy, how is it an illness? How are they sick? No one is being hurt, not even their self.
Now in regards to them seeking help, I guess you don't realize that because of this crusade against them, in my view, they can't seek help. Not only because as I believe you mentioned before, it's like being gay, but because when someone does "seek help" for pedophilia, they're usually confronted with an attack from whoever it is, be it their friends, the public, their mother, or a therapist. It's not possible to safely seek help, and I honestly don't see how people don't see this. You can't even seek support safely.
Maybe it's because people like you think it's a way to get people to turn their self in, because therapists report them for a simple attraction, ruining their life, and it's just a furthering of the vendetta against them, or y'all honestly can't see it.

Now in regards to "preventive measures," what's to prevent if they aren't a threat? If no one is being hurt, even them their self, then putting "preventive measures" just further dehumanizes them, and obviously you can't see this.
If someone says you can't be around their kids because you happen to like kids emotionally/sexually, isn't that discrimination in a form? Oh, but it's okay because it's just a pedophile.
Dehumanization.

Now for ones who don't act, they're called names, threatened, hated, discriminated against, advocated for tests, and much more, I'm pretty sure that's almost there, almost to being treated like you're non-human.
And lastly, because we aren't discussing "diddlers," we're discussing, now, pedophiles, apparently.

10 years ago
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Assuming from what the other anon said, and he is simply a "babyrapist," then yes.
Why?
Well, if he developes a care, a respect, or rather, a love for kids, and that was his only issue, what threat is he? Of course you couldn't have this sliding bullshit that you have in the news, and the actual facts, but if he wanted to rape/kill a child, but developes a care/love for them, so that he didn't want to see them cry, couldn't stand it, then he's no threat now is he?
I mean, if he ever got the want to do it, even if he tried, he would shut down and stop the second he made them cry, correct?

The only reason why he likely committed such a crime is because either he dehumanized the child, or he himself was dehumanized.

10 years ago
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I imagine there was crying, I think he also set the baby on fire?

but for your "child lover" bit...the recidivism rates are supposed to be something ridiculous on pedaphiles, i read somewhere many have requested chemical castration on release because the compulsion won't go away and they don't want to hurt the kids or something, apparently its like trying to stop being gay(or straight or whatever, don't jump down my throat you know what i meant). i know at least one guy wanted to stay in jail when they wanted to parole him cause i remember that article(he won)..don't have alot of research on the subject though.

10 years ago
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Yes, I figure there was crying if he raped a baby, and killed it.
Surely there was crying, especially if he did set the baby on fire.

As far as "pedaphiles" goes, I wouldn't really consider this fella a pedophile, simply because, from what you speak of, he had no attraction to the child. If he set a baby on fire, or killed it, he certainly didn't feel a real attraction to the child.
That's another subject, but that just follows into what I've been arguing more, that people have this irrational hatred, and therefore a connection to the worst crimes. So if someone said they were a pedophile to you, you'd flip out and associate with them as this guy, while in reality it's nowhere near the same thing. Not that it's you to blame in this case, but it's the general attitude society has to criminals, and these buzzwords, such as "pedophile."

Oh, and just to keep the rest short, and not go into too much detail, lets just say I have some friends who are pedophiles, and from what they say, yes, it's like being gay, but I've never heard any say they want castration, chemical or not. The only ones I've ever met that do are full of self hate to such a degree that you couldn't even picture it.
But to, like I said, keep it short, the recidivism rate for "pedophiles," being what society labels one as, not what one really is, is only around 8-14%, and if you know the statistics on the general population of prisoners, that's insanely good.

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Actually I fact-checked myself on this one just now, apparently for sex-crimes, "pedophiles," it's 5.3percent nation-wide, while other crimes reach beyond 10x that rate.
This is using USA statistics of course, as they're the easiest to find with the largest western population under one country.

10 years ago
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Actually the case in question doesn't deal with infant-rape. That's another guy who's execution was delayed.

10 years ago
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Grinds hands

Yeah, I figured as I didn't hear of anything of such related to the case elsewhere, but I can always argue for the sake of smearing someone against the wall.
All my points still work, that's why I typed them as I did. It's not like I care if I'm made to look like an asshole or worse, it's not like I care about their opinion of me anyways.

10 years ago
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I generally agree with you, but sometimes your opinions go to extremes that I can't morally share. sighs I love the internet.

10 years ago
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Yeah, I've "gotten around" and met many types of people and uncovered many things in the few short years I've been online, so my opinions are never even close to the norm or so it seems.
Really doesn't help when making friends in real life, but hey, they're plentiful online, and you weed out a lot of people who aren't good friends.

I don't really think I have much of a moral code though, at least in the sense that to most people I wouldn't have morals whatsoever, but they're there.
Just very lose and they depend heavily on situation.

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That's what a true moral code is at heart. Something that feels right at any given moment, but might change depending on the situation.

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"what threat is he?" are you serious there ? Let's take your example. The guy starts to rape the kid and hears the kid crying. He stops. How does that make him harmless ? If the kid didn't cry, what would have he done ? He would have kept raping him and maybe even killed him as it happened in the real case. As long as he tries to rape in the first place, i call him a fucking threat that's all. He should get locked up the first time he tries to do this monstruosity -.- Not because he decides to stop the process or whatever that he's not dangerous anymore suddenly

10 years ago
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Because if you follow what I say, he wouldn't do it, because he knows what happened last time. Furthermore, he would recognize that the child isn't feeling comfortable, as kids don't just burst into treats and emit crying sounds, they give signals, as everyone typically does. This should, theoretically, stop him/her in their tracks.
I put that in as bait. If he actually was coherent, it wouldn't be a possibility.

What are my bases for these claims?
Well, I could use some of my friends that are pedos as an example in the sense that none of them ever do anything "sexual" with the kids they hang out with because they know that it will hurt them, even though it may not be through them, but through the conditioning they'll experience later in life, or so some say. Regardless, they don't act, not because of the potential legal issues, but because they know the one they love could get hurt.
Or if you want a more relatable situation, as I probably would, would you ever do something that could hurt your daughter, your sister, or your friends little brother? I sure hope not, but that would follow the same logic that I have in the previous post: if you love someone, if you care about them, you will not risk hurting them if it's true.

If this fella did have a respect, a care, a love for kids, regardless of his previous crimes, he would regret them, and assuming people didn't hate him, he would never hurt a child again.
He'd likely dedicate himself to helping little ones actually.

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Oh really ? Well that's what i understood, please tell me if i'm wrong : What he/she said, is that instead of execution ( i'm not for it btw ), we should tell them just as we tell to kids "what you did is bad", and then send them to "controlled environments" that aren't prisons ... That's almost releasing them to me. No environment can be better controlled than a prison ( to keep people locked in, of course ), and even in a damn prison they sometimes escape ... So, what did i understand wrong in his post ? I'm not english or american, it causes a lot of misunderstanding sometimes, so i'd really love to know if i got something wrong here instead of your short ass comment that doesn't really tell me where i'm wrong ...

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As i said in my previous answer, that's almost setting them free to me. I mean, how do you guys see this "controlled environment" ? Because i said, sometimes they even escape prisons, where would you want to keep them xD

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I'd figure if you read controlled environment, but not prison, you'd think of something y'know, controlled, not free.
Personally I heavily disagree with that, because really, it wouldn't be much different from prison. People would still be secluded and have no chance to be in a relationship, travel, or really have fun.
They'd just be living a slightly above prison level with people who also committed the crimes like they did. Which could be good and enjoyable, but not when you're in the wrong bunch. Say you got convicted of murder for defending yourself, and all of them enjoy the feeling of killing, and you don't. That won't be nice at all regardless.

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part of the point of jail is it sucks. if you could travel have fun and be in a relationship from prison why not do crimes when they suit you? prison isn't supposed to be "good and enjoyable" if only that jackass who likes to stab people wasn't ruining it.(it sounds like jail in arrested development.) its supposed to be a deterrent.

10 years ago
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You obviously didn't understand anything I've said in this entire thread, especially in that post.
You what?

That's the main issue with jail/prison here. It sucks.
It shouldn't be glorious, but you shouldn't be punishing people. People who advocate for this are sadistic and no better than the murderers. They enjoy seeing others suffer.
You, like most, seemingly can't understand that rehabilitation should be more important than hurting someone.

I promise you this, if I get put into a hellhole jail for 5years for whatever it may be, when I come out, I will not be rehabilitated. I will not care not to recommit.
I will be filled with more hatred, more suffering, and I will likely be dehumanized to such a degree that I would lose and feelings to fellow humans that would prevent me from hurting them.
I'll just be even more pissed at the state, at the world, at the people, than I ever was before. You may have put me behind bars for a weapons charge, but when I come out, I will repay you, likely through a form of terrorism.
Then again, this is all theoretical of course. Y'know that though.

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"They enjoy seeing others suffer." Where is that coming from ? You're just randomly judging EVERY single one of them without knowing each one of them ... Do you know that this is pretty much how racism works ? "they're all like this" <.< Now what they do, isn't making the criminals suffering for their pleasure, and i BET that it's actually hard in some cases to decide what to do with a human life .. it's pretty big. What they do is that they keep NORMAL people SAFE from MONSTERS.

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I don't know, maybe if you read anything, even the majority of what is in this thread, you'd realize that people want to see criminals suffer. They want to see them "pay" for what they have done.
And no, just as I am not racist, I am not prejudice to any group until each individual gives me a reason. He gave me in this thread beyond enough evidence to make a good 5-10+ page report tearing him to shreds regarding him enjoying other peoples suffering, wanting others to suffer, as well as much more, such as advocating for senseless killings just because it would put his/her mind at piece.

If it isn't for their pleasure why are they advocating for the most inhumane, brutal, and disgusting acts, and cheers it when it does happen with no remorse?

And in regards to it being hard for them, I'm assuming this would be the person giving them their sentence for example, the majority of criminals are not human, or sub-human to people who enjoy their suffering. It's not about fair punishment, it's not about justice, it's not about trying to fix things, it's about punishment.
That is wrong. Be it in a high security state-run prison, a terrorist kidnapping camp, or in your home. It shouldn't be happening.

Lastly though, if it was to keep normal people safe from these "monsters," why are so many so harmless, of all groups? Why are people trying to hurt them, punish them, and torture them, when they can just give them a decent quality of life away from "normal people" so that they're "safe?"
Because normal people are typically scum, and don't want that. They want retribution.
Don't believe me?
Look at the world's events, court cases, gang killings, everything. Look at 9/11 for example.

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"majority of what is in this thread, you'd realize that people want to see criminals suffer" yeah, a majority, just this word shows that NOT EVERYONE says that ... "it's about punishment. That is wrong. " It depends, sometimes the way they're punished is wrong, sometimes they just get what they deserve ( and i'm not including death penalty here, i have no opinion on that one because as i said in another post, our opinion changes on the right to give someone death depending on the situation, so i don't really know ... ), we made rules to be able to live in community peacefuly, and people just come here and screw things up. Punishing them IS fixing things. For example, some people who come out of prison can reinsert themeselves in society very well. Someone who stole and went to prison, if he ain't stupid he'll find a job when he gets out because after prison he'll know that he doesn't want to go back there. That's why they're punished. " the majority of criminals are not human" to me it depends on the crime. The crime that was describe for the guy who died in 40 mins or whatever, after what he did i just can't consider him human anymore. Same goes to people who enjoy seeing others suffering, that's nuts. " these "monsters," Now i'm really speaking of cases like the guy we're talking about, it's not like every single criminals are murderers and all, but they still represent a danger to me. "why are so many so harmless" They weren't that harmless when they did their stuff, and some of them are recidivist, which is why i consider them dangerous, now if one can proof that he can be fine when released in society, i won't say the same thing.

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If people "made rules to be able to live in (a) community peacefully" then why do these rules directly result in more conflict, more suffering, and less peace? Is the system broken? Then why not fix it.
Furthermore, if "punishing them IS fixing things," why do the VAST majority of prisoners not only re-offend, but also go back to prison? Why in places where more minor offenses are legalized that major offenses go down?

Assuming that's how criminals think, and you're correct, obviously you're missing a piece of the puzzle.
Do you know criminals?
I do, I certainly do, from all backgrounds as well, from petty theft, murder, organized crime, rape, to molestation.
Okay, but lets assume you're correct. How is he going to get that job? Before you read any further, out of the ones I listed, think about them. What do you feel to them. Lets take petty theft up first.
Would you trust him with your entry level job, as a businessman, typically involving handling goods or money? Certainly not likely, as he could easily steal, not to mention this could break his parole.
The killer? Well, are you comfortable with him working for you? I mean, if they could murder someone aren't they cold? Could they handle your customers? Would you give them equal grounds to work with you as others, and would your employees be okay with it? Can you trust him?
Now for the organized crime. Are you sure you want them to work for you, having possible "clients" finding him, seeking him out, or him using your business as a selling point? Can you trust him to not exploit you?
And finally for the molestation/rape, the sex offender registry, does your business involvement in alone contact with ANYONE? Might they see children or be around them, even with company? Might their co-workers be comfortable with them alone? Is it keeping in their parole/registry terms? Will people boycott you for hiring a known ____?

My point is, well, would you pick a criminal over a normal fellow? Likely no.
Would you even if they were better qualified? Likely no.
Would you respect them, or think lower of them?

Once again, I know criminals, from all backgrounds, and they're my closest friends. They can't get jobs easily, even the ones with a bad driving record from drinking and driving but with no accidents.
They can't find ANY jobs.
Many are homeless, or "leeches" as a result. Many can't live near or , many can't work at , many can't buy ____ or visit , all of which restricts their life. Then combine the prejudice most have to them, and they're a goner. So what will that do? They'll likely re-offend for one reason or another, depression, money issues, whatever it may be. They'll likely NEED to do a crime to just live, to just get rent, to just buy food. Many shelters won't take them, and cops will arrest them on the street, so they barely can even be homeless.

He may not want to go back to jail, prison, but that doesn't mean he won't. That doesn't mean he will be able to live normally, or even remotely normally. His life is ruined, this especially for sex offenders and people who stole something.
Finally though, if that's why they're punished, so that they don't want to go to jail again, why would you want to go there in the first place? Why make their life hell if they ever do get out? Why discriminate so heavily they can barely survive without re-offending? Because you don't want them near you, do you? Because they're not equals, they're sub-human, they're not safe, they're dehumanized, they're worth less, and they're disgusting.

Now in regards to everything you said in that post other than what I directly responded to, see the above, as well as consider, is it really that possible not to re-offend, be a recidivist, easily, and as you just admitted, regardless, you will have a prejudice to them.
They're done in your mind, even if they aren't a murderer.

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"You will have a prejudice to them" -> Yeah, for my own safety ! "They're done in your mind, even if they aren't a murderer" -> my previous post :"now if one can proof that he can be fine when released in society, i won't say the same thing." "Why make their life hell if they ever do get out?" -> not what i said, just that we can't simply trust them as they get out. But if it turns out that they can live without having to kill, rob, rape or anything that hurts people, they're fine for me. "How is he going to get that job?" That's the hard part for them, and i agree, but what i'm saying since the whole conversation started is that, these people made bad stuff that took them to prison. My point is not to make them suffer for eternity. It's just that we have to be sure they won't hurt people anymore, and it's not by refusing them jobs and excluding them from society ... we can't be sure if they will do their stuff again, they have to show us themselves. For getting a job, an employer can be a pure asshole, even if he sees the guy doesn't want to be seen as an inmate anymore but a serious person. I completely agree with you on this part. But if trust every single one of the prisonners that go out of prison and are actually recidivists ... Chaos. To me, they have to be controlled ( and maybe they are i don't even know, i'm just expressing my opinion here ) when they get out of prison, and then they can be trusted. Of course they could fool us. But that'd be bad for everyone, including them so it'd be pretty fucking stupid from them.

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So you're saying you're going discriminate against people who already suffered the punishment you accept as valid, thereby furthering their punishment and suffering?
I think I rest my case.

As far as everything else goes, so if you agree, then why aren't you practicing it and trying to eliminate it? Opening your arms to people who committed a crime in the past, trying to help them out, be their friend, or whatever it may be?
The only way for them to get a job is usually through a friend, and they lose them all when they go to jail, typically. Family often disowns them, or they grew apart, and it's just a broken relationship.

I'm not saying to, as a business owner, hire a child molester, especially a re-offending one, to a daycare you own, if they're good with kids, but if they prove their self, you shouldn't continue to beat them up over it. If they molested, payed their "debt to society," and are acting good and appropriate, if they tell you or you find out, don't disown them. Don't hire them, get to know them, but if so, I wouldn't even go so far to say to not consider a job at your business. Sure, don't let them alone with children at first, or even possibly forever, but if they prove their self, don't keep them in the noose. Don't hang them the moment you find out before they can prove their self.

This applies to ALL criminals. That was just the easiest, and first thing to come into my mind. The way your mind is working seems to say that you won't give them ANY chance. You will hang them. Drunk thief wants to work at your liquor store? Get to know him, is he reasonable clean? Is he a nice guy? Does he steal? Give him a chance. Hire him, part time, while you're there, during the day.

Just adjust the job and the crime and you can fit this into anything. The basics always will remain the same. Give _ a chance if proves that they are good, and not doing ____, but only give them a little, to start, and increase it gradually.

They can't prove they aren't what they used to be, or that they're not horrible monsters if you don't give them the chance. If you look at them and throw them in the trash they'll remain in the trash, rotting, dying, till they re-offend and go back to prison because they had nothing else to survive off of.

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It's crazy how you're turning things i'm saying to a different way to shut me up, like seriously. How many times will i have to repeat myself x) "you're saying you're going discriminate" -> "now if one can proof that he can be fine when released in society, i won't say the same thing." What i'm saying, is that i won't trust until they show me they can be trusted, it's that simple. I don't want anyone to suffer as long as they try to be accepted by people again." Get to know him, is he reasonable clean? Is he a nice guy? Does he steal? Give him a chance Get to know him, is he reasonable clean? Is he a nice guy? Does he steal? Give him a chance " i'm all for this if you read what i just said again, as long as they show me they're fine, i'm cool with them x) "but if they prove their self, don't keep them in the noose. Don't hang them the moment you find out before they can prove their self.", "They can't prove they aren't what they used to be, or that they're not horrible monsters if you don't give them the chance." that's what i just said again ... "If you look at them and throw them in the trash they'll remain in the trash, rotting, dying, till they re-offend and go back to prison because they had nothing else to survive off of." -> agreed.

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Well, to me, you're saying that you won't trust them or give them a chance till they give you a reason to, so in my view, you aren't giving them a chance until someone else does, which is unlikely.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but to me when someone says "I won't trust until they show me they can be trusted," I see that you're saying you won't trust them whatsoever until you are shown they can be trusted.
By this, I mean you can't trust them unless they've proven they can be trustworthy.
That follows into, you won't hire them for a job till you see proof they won't steal from you from a previous job or something, where they didn't steal.

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"That follows into, you won't hire them for a job till you see proof they won't steal from you from a previous job or something, where they didn't steal." well, not necessarily, i'm not an employer but what i'd do first is really asking the right questions at the interview. Not to make them uncomfortable during the interview, just to see if they're right in their mind, and if they SEEM to be, hire them and see what happens. There's not much else to do anyway, we can't just throw them away.

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Not what i said, i'm speaking of security here. And do they even deserve to have more space ? They're being locked up for a reason ... as someone said before, prison isn't a vacation camp or something. It's where we put monsters to protect people who can live in society without hurting the others in any possible way.

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Oh, so because they MAY have done something, anything at all, they're a threat, so fuck'em.
Go directly to dehumanization.

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If we have the proof that they have done something, then yeah fuck'em.

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But a large portion of criminals are put away for baseless claims. A woman can put a man away, as can a child, easily, if they claim "rape."
A therapist may consider _ a threat, so off to jail they go.
Someone is expected of being a __
? We can always plant evidence, or file some bullshit charge from a broad law that covers everything.

Oh, and go directly to dehumanization.
Oh, and you just threw your entire previous post out the window. Why? Well, you basically said if someone ever does anything against the law, "fuck'em," and they can suffer as much as someone desires. You don't care about them.
Once again, worse than murderers.

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Now you're speaking of injustice, the topic was just not about that, of course i know about this, it's unfair and all but that wasn't our topic <.< And i said fuck'em because the way you just keep insisting is getting me crazy x) And when i say fuck'em it doesn't mean make them suffer necessarily, i meant more, too bad for them but it's their own fault, they made their own decision. Which is go to prison.

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Even if they did something, the point still stands, "fuck'em."

While you may not want them to suffer, you're actively doing nothing to prevent it, or stop it, or stand out against it. You don't advocate it, but you don't mind it.
I don't care what happens to someone who tortures, rapes, and kills a little kid either, however, someone who does a little crime, or even a medium level one, I do care.

The least you could do is advocate for fair treatment and no discrimination/abuse to them, but you don't. You don't care, as you said. "Fuck'em."

Just because you don't want to inflict the suffering upon others doesn't mean you're any, or at least much, better than the ones who are. You're watching them doing it, and not having a care of the pain and suffering they go through.
The only way for this to be possible is if you're either a sociopath, or if you dehumanized them.

I don't care about the crime one may have committed within reason, if I was trapped in a room with a criminal, be it a petty thief, a child molester, a (decent) gangster, a drug dealer, someone who beat their girlfriend, or someone who illegally possessed a ____, and a "moral" person, if they lay a hand on the other fella un-warrented, like many would because of the hate they have to the criminal, I would defend them with my life.
If you see someone being hurt for no significant reason, discriminated against, or mistreated, then you should defend them. Even if they did something in the past, you should still treat them as if they didn't until they do something again.

If you wouldn't defend any of the criminals I mentioned, at-least assuming that was all they did and not more on top of that, then go directly to dehumanizing them, being a sociopath, and in my personal opinion, being just as bad as those who get pleasure off handing people, innocent or not, with max sentences, with death sentences, and with extra abuse and mistreatment. You're one in the same in my eyes.

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"however, someone who does a little crime, or even a medium level one, I do care." i agree, but i was mostly speaking of similar cases as the guy who suffered for 40 minutes ... So i was being a bit general and more on "big" criminals. "The least you could do is advocate for fair treatment and no discrimination/abuse to them, but you don't. You don't care, as you said" like it would change anything XD of course i'm not for torture and all, it's bad. It's just getting down to the same level as a "monster" to me x) " If you see someone being hurt for no significant reason, discriminated against, or mistreated, then you should defend them. " of course, even if they used to be criminals, they should be defended as anyone else. "You're one in the same in my eyes." Wow. Really. You just twisted all the shit i said, started to speak of, if we can call these "small" crimes, and now you're insulting of sociopath because i don't want to directly trust someone with a bad past, for people's safety because you just fucking never know if they are recidivists or not until they proove it. That's all i said. And in your two last posts you repeated that. Yet now you call me these things ... I'm done here. It's getting stupid and i don't accept being insulted like that either.

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I think the only reason either of us are disagreeing at this point is because while I don't treat criminals any differently, especially worse, you do.

Not to say it's intentional, or not normal, but you do.
If you think they're more of a threat, and are more careful with them as a result, then you're still doing exactly what I have been arguing against.

To the extent, all the way up to enjoying their suffering is how far the rope climbs, which you may not in fact be all the way up to that, however, you're still on it, and I dislike that.

The same treatment I described I'd give anyone, if I had a daycare and was hiring someone, I'd keep them restricted unless an emergency happens, in which case, in both cases, rules would be off.

I only entertain the idea of sociopathy because you act as if they don't matter whatsoever, and are neutral to their unneeded suffering. Unless it's an especially brutal case, less than 0.5% of convictions, you should feel some sympathy or disgust in the current system in my opinion.

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"To the extent, all the way up to enjoying their suffering is how far the rope climbs, which you may not in fact be all the way up to that, however, you're still on it, and I dislike that." i'm not enjoying their suffering FFS <.< "I only entertain the idea of sociopathy because you act as if they don't matter whatsoever" where did i say something like that ? If they didn't matter they'd be completely ignored. Which isn't the case. All i'm saying is that we have to make sure they aren't recidivists. And if they're not they can't be considered as threats. I never said "i wanna see them in a cage for the rest of their lives because they stole an apple because they had no other choice" or "they're criminals, not humans" ...

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It's like trying to ask which tastes worse : Horsecrap or maggot anuses. They're both bad, there's no need to measure the inches.

However there is a vital difference between the two acts : One was accidental, the other was intentional.

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He should've been raped and buried alive, obviously.

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Hammurabi's Code FTW

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Yeah! Woo! Law code from thousands of years ago! We definitely haven't improved at all in that long! Woo! Yeah!

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We really have not.

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The sad truth is that some of us have, just not enough to make a difference. People like mrczoko and Goofysoccer are the reasons why.

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nope. in some ways we're probably worse :) our capacity for violence as individuals may be slightly reduced by a more comfortable environment and changing social factors but with forcemultipliers it swings the other way regardless. If we set our minds to it and all worked together we could probably scrape away a good chunk of the crust, or at least melt some of it. no spear could even make the attempt

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Just interesting expansion to this question. Does this expands to larger populations? Even to nations? Or just individuals?

That is if someone hurts you it's reasonable to hurt in worse or similar way?

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worked well enough for our species so far. most animals don't bother tiring to eat us at any rate.

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So 9/11 and any terrorist attack are reasonable and moral answers to invasions and attacks against enemy you can't fight against?

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I said it works on a species level.

now as far as a country/tribal level it could use some fine tuning but biology is still rooting for genocide. its only incomplete genocides that are punished. biology says don't spare the baby he'll grow into a man and avenge his father's death(likely with collateral against your own sons in the process which is why biology hates vendettas) if it benefits you or your probably equally predatory spawn then you should kill whoever you like as long as you get all the witnesses and anybody who'd seek revenge.

now on a society/"the internal matters of humans as a whole" level it needs TONS of work. but some future iteration of that instinct can probably be made useful once sufficiently watered down. (the fact we can pull off extinction level events was never part of evolution's plan so this could get bad before it gets better)

10 years ago
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Well in the case of 9/11, personally, I think the attackers, if they were truly "terrorists" and it wasn't a big joke, were heroes.
Far more than our soldiers are.

While they didn't fight on "our" side, they did a great deed for theirs, and they hurt no innocence in my view as the enemy was America. The Americans invaded. The Americans killed my daughter, my mother, my sister, and my wife, and now I have nothing left but a pile of rubble and my tormented soul.
While not everyone who died in the attacks deserved it, I don't think any of the alleged hijackers really did anything wrong, as "we" took their lives away, we caused them to become what they did. "We" continue to do this, and that is why, while I don't support the killings, I do not condone any killing of soldiers, or attacks on our civilians.

I doubt this really answered the question, but that's what I think of it in regards to wrong/right in the case of 9/11.
It's sad all around, however, the man took the first step and set a fire in the forest, and once all the forest was burned to the ground, the former forest's inhabitant's had nothing to live for, as they had no home, and most of their family and friends died in the fire. So when they came over and attacked the man, they did nothing wrong.

10 years ago
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Sure, well thinking like that, let's just wipe out America from earth, because you know SOME assholes decided to do BAD stuff to other countries because they had the power to do it, LET'S JUST KILL ALL OF THE INNOCENTS WITH THEM YAY ! best idea ever. Saying that killers are heroes almost made me laugh ... Do you think it's okay to take revenge of something that has been done to you to random people who never did anything wrong or aren't even close to what happened to you ? Man we'd all be dead if we all thought like you do x)

10 years ago
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I never said I promote such attacks on what you believe to be "innocents," however, I do not condone them. For the "terrorists," they were just simply replying to what was done to them and their families/friends.

Funny thing about your post, I bet you consider the soldiers that go over there hero's, correct?
They're killing innocent people.
They're killers too.

10 years ago
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Where did i say that i agreed with soldier doing these kind of things ? I have my own definition on what a hero is, and it's most of the time, to me, certainly not a soldier.

10 years ago
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"I bet."

10 years ago
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I don't get it.

10 years ago
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I literally said "I bet."
"I bet" indicates that I could make the assumption, that you could, just maybe, think that, or if I was speaking generally, anyone could think, while thinking the previous was evil and wrong (terroristsm).

10 years ago
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In Spain, he will only take 16 years in the jail.

10 years ago
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thats usually the case here as well with murder. deathpenalty(or life sentencing) is more of a sometimes thing. usually only if the media blows it up. apparently we're more worried about budgets, jails filling up or europe making snippy remarks(as if they don't have any problems) than we are with keeping killers locked up.

10 years ago
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Ha, so true! We really need to overhaul the justice system.

10 years ago
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If there was be no consequence, I would enjoy killing him myself. It's retribution.

The wicked must be punished, period.

10 years ago
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Karma

10 years ago
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Did he deserve it? Yes (probably).
Is it barbaric? Yes.

Not happy about it, no one should be killed in any way, even the ones who deserve it.

10 years ago
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Bad things happen to bad people.

10 years ago
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It's an interesting question. What he and his friends did to those people was uncalled for, unfair and unforgiveable. Maybe he did deserve it, I can't say - it's not going to bring his victim back though - that's the real tragedy.

10 years ago
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Only 45 minutes? That's a shame!

10 years ago
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The end result was the same.

10 years ago
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No he kinda did not deserve it... I mean he could have had a pschological problem or something.

10 years ago
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So, It's okay to shoot people, bury them alive and rape people as long as you say you have psychological problems or something?

10 years ago
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Death penalty is part of justice and torture is hate crime agains whole humanity. Every living being -no matter what it did- deserve clean and painless death.

10 years ago
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When talking about crime and punishment, it is best to deal with the different factors individually.

  • The punishment for murder is death.
  • When killing someone or something is necessary, it should be done in as humane a manner as possible.
  • In cases where there are other crimes tied to a murder, additional punishment is usually at the discretion of the judicial system.

For the case mentioned in the OP, the execution was botched. There was apparently no intention of torturing the condemned, but humans make mistakes.

P.S. (In case anyone was wondering, the most humane form of execution is either instantaneous beheading (if the condemned is cognizant) or bloodletting (if the condemned is not cognizant).)

10 years ago
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don't make the blade too sharp though, some tearing and bloodletting is necessary(sends the brain into shock or something and knocks them out for those 12 seconds or so) otherwise you get the guillotine problem where the heads make faces.

10 years ago
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I dunno, I see the death sentence as quite a quick way out. I'm not sure if I'd rather see someone like him stay in one of the worst jails for the rest of his life.

10 years ago
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Sure they fucked up......but yeah he does, he deserves worse actually.

10 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 6 years ago.

10 years ago
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I don't agree with the death penalty what so ever.

Murder is never justified, under any circumstances, by a criminal or by the people judging the criminal.

The cost should be life, but not instantly taken, the criminal should have to spend his/her life in prison, which actually costs less than carrying out a death sentence.

No one has the right to kill another person, regardless of that persons actions.

10 years ago
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Closed 10 years ago by taytothief.