since when do normalfags kill people most of the time it's the deltas or autists
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Even if it's not that good of a game, the publicity from the news and all the angry mothers will make the game go viral. Even if the gameplay is horrible it will probably still find a large following from people that just play it because it's taboo, not politically correct, or just because there's a lot of people out there that are against it.
I would play it just for that reason, can't wait for it to be released. The more people that fight it the more popular it will be. That's how everything in life is, we want what we can't have or what people try and tell us we shouldn't have.
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Is that why we all here are high on crack all the time and beat 6 years old in front of their school? ^^
Don't want to judge your statement, but I actually do not care so much for taboos. Sometimes its important to break taboos, but seriously? You can't wait for it to get released even if you feel it wont be that good. Just because its a taboo? Isn't that something youngsters would do, but grown up people? As said, not judging you, just really curious.
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I think he's making the point that a fist will be met with a fist. Try to subvert or oppose something like this, and you'll only draw more attention to it, and gain it more notoriety / infamy / coverage / sales.
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While i agree with you about what you think his point is...
I wonder... should we oppose / try to subvert the actual gang-rapes in India that happened not so long ago? :/
(They still happen as far as to my knowledge, they just haven't been getting the same media coverage, but that's a different story - unless someone intends to actually say with a straight face they will happen more often if people talk about it).
Excuse my sarcasm / satire, i know there's a big difference, but... even if his point is right, it just adds insult to injury, not the other way around. ;)
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I just love all the people on high horses in this thread and around the internet. I mean who gives a fuck that we "murder" hundreds/thousands of innocent bystanders in the GTA series or in Saint's Row, Sleeping Dogs and any other sandbox game that lets you go wild. If you make a game about it it's suddenly a sick thing. Have you seen civilians in, for example, Prototype? They run and beg for their lives too, right before you cut them up/skewer them/bash them into the ground. I don't remember anyone starting a scandal over that game.
Who cares that we probably killed millions of "innocent" AI enemies in all the video games we've played over the years, i mean it's not like they deserved it right, not like they had a choice? They were just programmed by some "sick" dev to come at us so we'd kill them. Hell, think of all those innocent mushroom and turtles that murderer Mario has killed over the years. Gotta love hypocrisy.
I'm not defending defending the game, i'm just annoyed by the hypocrisy of the whole scandal.
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"hypocrisy" ... I have been waiting for such a statement.
Saints Row is a satire on games like GTA. The over the top violence is presented in absurd way to show how absurd all this violence is in the end. GTA has a story in which people get killed. Its part of something bigger. Not your ultimate goal.
vs
Hatred. Pure, undisguised hatred. Where your goal is to kill innocents. Your goal. Killing people is not a necessary instrument on your way to the end, it is already your goal. You have to kill people. Nothing more. The fact that it simply celebrates hatred and puts you in the place of a person running amok is a difference to the games you named.
So, Kinja, why is making differences; having the ability to distinguish, make me a hipycrite?
Throwing out the word hypocrite has been a great trend lately. "Being tolerant" and "not giving a shit" are not the same. Some games can be tolerated, even if they contain violence, some are just products of hatred. And somewhere has to be a line. I would not want to support hatred. Hatred is not entertaining to me.
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+1, the same things bugs me, that game's main goal seems to be violence, while in other games it's just an option. Someone mentioned Saint's Row: I play currently the 3rd one. When I'm stealing cards in missions, I only shoot down chasing policeman. When I play assassination, I kill only the target. When I need to pull of a mission against a gang, I kill only members and ocassionally policaman, and try to avoid civilian casualties. I try to play the game as the Saint's leader would, who only cares about his gang's power, not about random massacre. Everyone plays games differently, hence it's great, that SR and GTA has options.
However, everyone plays with games they want to play with. Also don't forget: everyone can have their own thoughts about the game. Mine is simple: "Hatred" makes me feel sick and makes me cringe really hard if I even think about playing it.
But as this is easily avoidable, I'll just stay away from this title. Glorified and centralized violence is just not my thing.
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Thats a major point. You always have an option.
You also have the option to buy a gun/knife/whatever and kill people on the streets in real life. As violent as you want to, but you will probably decide not to do that. On the other hand, if anybody stands behind you and encourages you to do so, hes breaking the law. At least in many countries.
So, society already differences whats okay and what not. And most people agree with such laws. Censorship is wrong. In sweden, for example, censorship is not even legal. Still, they do not allow people to hold speeches of hatred, like anti-islam speeches and such.
Also, its one thing to be against censorship, but its a totally different thing to compare a game that simply focuses on "genocide" and "killing those human worms" with a game that gives you the option to "break bad". Some of the named games even punish killing civillians. Other games, like the named Spec Ops, make you view your own actions and make you think about them. I honestly had a really bad feeling in this game. I think, that it delivered the horror of war in very emotional way. In Fallout 2 (uncut) you could massacre a whole map full of kids. You could. Afterwards, the whole city tried to take you down, so you were not encouraged by the game to do so. Also, this scene wasn't present in every version of the game. The german version for example didn't feature this option and the game was not hurt by it.
Also, if you view it from an economical and ethical point, games like this are kind of hurting the industry. If the consumers demand more violence, they will get more violence. So, there will be more and more games that focus on violence. I actually do not need much violence, Id prefer more real content.
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I am ashamed to say I forgot about that part in Fallout 2. What city / place was that, where you could destroy the whole thing?
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I don't remember the exact name of the city, but its kind of Chinatown. At the docks, there was a "beach" where a bunch of shi kids played around. In the old Fallouts you could draw a gun anywhere, anytime. So you were able to butcher them.
Butchering kids would give you the "Childkiller" perk and people would show you their antipathy. If spotted while killing innocents, people tried to flee or kill you.
And talking about bad taste, this is an intresting article about the "Childkiller" perk in FO2.
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Plus fucking one. Lumping stinted and flawed comparisons together to make a skewed and wholly irrelevant point's the dumbs.
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Again, i'm not defending this one game, it's more of a comment on people's reaction to only some cases of violence. You say that in other games it's only an option, no one is forcing you to resort to it. Buying this game is also an option, no one's forcing you to buy, i know i'm not buying it. Even if you try to hide behind the "oh it's only one path you can take" argument, it's still there, the violence does not magically vanish just because you have the option not to use it. You say Saint's Row is a parody of GTA, does that give games like it a free pass? It's still violence, in a game, just like this crappy game that's got everyone's panties in a twist.
It is hypocrisy exactly because you CHOOSE to tolerate it in some games and speak out against it in others. Especially in the case of plenty of people right now who are just going with the herd on this and will forget about it as soon as hating this game stops being popular. It's not a trend. It's reality. Everyone is a hypocrite. You are one even as you are denying it.
You say there's no games that focus on violence? There's also whole genres of games that have the sole goal of killing. Look at FPS or Action games, does the fact that the ones you butcher there have a weapon suddenly make it ok? Look at RTS games, we send countless soldiers to die, in horrible ways most of the time, for our entertainment. Hell in RTS/Strategy games we don't even see them as "people" we see them as chess pieces and never stop to think about that.
And it's not a question about being tolerant or not giving a shit, it's a question about being able to distinguish between computer games and real life. This shit game and the scandal some people are causing over it will only provide more fuel to the imbeciles who blame games for everything, instead of blaming the true problems like mental illness or bad/neglectful parents.
You think these arguments and hate directed at it will help our case? Trust me, it won't, all it's doing is bringing attention to it. I expect to see it even on the news in my shitty country in a week or two tops. It's also hilarious, in a sad way, that all this hatred it's getting will only provide it with free publicity and boost it's sales, if people would have let it go under the radar no one would remember it one month after release.
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" You say Saint's Row is a parody of GTA, does that give games like it a free pass?"
Of course not. Still, satire is a useful instrument to show how absurd something is. And I felt that Saints Row is a satire on modern games/movies and society in general. The GTA parts that I have played were always satiric or parodic. I remember San Andreas, when you stole a car the character might say "Don't blame me, blame society", which is in fact satire in different ways.
"Buying this game is also an option, no one's forcing you to buy, i know i'm not buying it."
Me neither, but as a potential consumer, Id like to see a change in the industry, but not that way. Guns do not kill people, people kill people, still guns are not openly distributed in most western countries. And that has a reason. The reason is that there has to be a line of what is okay and what goes to far. You will probably not see a KZ Simulator in the near future. Why? Because people still have a taste and praising horror and violence is mostly not accepted very well.
" It is hypocrisy exactly because you CHOOSE to tolerate it in some games and speak out against it in others."
There I have to disagree. Not on the choosing part. That is exactly what I do. I choose which violence is acceptable and which is not. That is exactly what I do. And this is called critical thinking. I do not have to tolerate or accept any kind of violence just because I once accepted satiric violence. Why would I? Your argumentation would be the exact thing you named earlier: A free pass. Every or none. Thats thinking in black and white. That would be annulent of all values. Once you accepted one kind of something, you have to accept all. Thats nonsense. If someone punches me in the stomach and Id let it slip, Id have to face stomachpunches my whole life? Well, no. While its common that people watch porn movies, does that mean real rape movies are okay to produce and distribute? Well, no. But you could easily say: Well, you accepted this kind of visual sex, why not that kind? I have to distinguish what is acceptable and what is not. It is my duty as a mature and civilized citizen.
And that is what I said about "tolerance" and "not giving a shit". Tolerance has a limit somewhere and I have to decide where my tolerance ends. That is not hipocrisy. Hipocrisy would be if I tolerate the praise of hatred in one game but not in this. I do not tolerate the praise of hatred at all. And I see a difference in having the option to go nuts or being encouraged to go nuts.
"And it's not a question about being tolerant or not giving a shit, it's a question about being able to distinguish between computer games and real life."
And that is not how I see it. I never spoke about being able to distinguish between computer games and real life. Because its a debate we both will loose. I am not mentally ill and I don't want to shoot people on the street. Though I face a growing willingness of violence in youngsters every day. But as said, everyone states that its all about distinguishing truth from fiction, but its not the one amok runner everyone should fear. Its the growing acceptance of visual violence that is truly a problem. In my own opinion, it is great to be disgusted of several explicit acts of violence, even if they are fictional. Its a good sign if a society rejects harsh violence. Otherwise, the tolerance will grow and grow and we will eventually have to face more harsh violence.
" It's also hilarious, in a sad way, that all this hatred it's getting will only provide it with free publicity and boost it's sales[...]"
It might be publicity, but I believe that it is necessary to talk about a topic such as this. Even if it is publicity. I am sorry that I actually care. But I reject your way of thinking. I reject having to take everything.
Praising hate should simply have no room in a civilized society. Otherwise, there is nothing civilized about it.
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Was wondering why its called sociopath simulator, too. I guess the title should kinda be changed, since sociopathy is not equal to running amok.
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Thank you for noticing... The title is irksome at the very least.
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Eh, nope. I'm not into 2edgy4u tryhard games. Even Postal 2 has a bit of humor to go with its violence. This, however, has nothing. I'll be spending my time and money on other things.
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This is basically what I have to say on the matter. I concur with every point these guys raised. Anything else, everyone's just being a spoiled hypocritical brat. Which is basically every human being on the planet, so don't feel offended by a natural side of yourself, otherwise you just prove the point. Almost every comment here is a walking example of the stereotypes mentioned in the linked video. So you better check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
Good day.
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lol look at you talking from some fictional position of power. I hope you understand that in your post you admitted to being a "spoiled hypocritical brat" yourself.
Good job.
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Ok, I haven't looked up anything myself, but you posted here basically saying you have some sort of problem with the game.
Then you say the dev has connection to an "anti-Islam" group. Ok, so? I know plenty of people that are anti-Christianity, big deal. Anti-immigration? On what grounds? If it's on the basis of race, that's an issue, if it's merely on the basis of using resources in other manners, who cares?
I'm not even sure how being anti-communist would be a bad thing, but once again I haven't looked up what you are referring to and perhaps you're just really terrible as describing bad things.
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The CEO of this company called Jaroslaw Zielinski is affiliated with the Polska Liga Obrony, a group that is anti islam and anti inmigration.
Another producer of the game can be seen dressed with military clothes from the Żołnierze Wyklęci, they are associated with Freikorps, which is a group of anti communists german volunteers.
and?!
Please die...
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"The Devs also said that if the game is popular it might appear on Xbox One and PS4"
Are they serious? Would Microsoft & Sony even allow a game like that onto their systems? I'm not sure about Sony, but I can sure as hell see Microsoft disallowing it.
I'd play it, but I sure as hell wouldn't buy it.
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Don't copy bullshits that shity page like playerattack says. I'm always amazed when someone call others neo-nazi or shit like that just becouse of some t-shirt. Ppl used to wear t-shirts with controversary contents since ever, i like them, but it doesn't mean nothing. About the game, I can't wait the game in which i don't have to save the world again, i did it so many times, time to bring destruction, suffering and pain^^
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Let's be real here: How many hours have you spent doing the exact same thing in GTA? This was only a very small bit of gameplay but at the same time if it ends up being a decently made game it could be fun. My hopes aren't really high though. The cringey voice acting and monologue kind of turned me off.
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Beating people to death with a dildo in saints row was fun. Imagine that in real life. A naked chick running in the streets killing people with a dildo. My favorite activity in first GTA game was running people over with a car and then run them over again while braking leaving the trail of blood on the street. And i was a kid back then. So why this one is wrong?
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Is it just me or does the protagonist say"my genocide crusade begins here" followed by little cinematic scenes of him executing a string of persons of color? Yes, there are some cops mixed in there, but from the looks of it, they're going out of their way to show him executing dark skinned people, while having the character talk about a genocide crusade.
Is this really what the world of video games needs right now? Is this really what humanity needs right now?
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Erm... just want to point out:
Directly from FAQ. And all I see on last 1.5-2 pages of this thread is political flame war over nazis, not nazis, communists, neo-nazis, leftists, rightists, Żołnierze Wyklęci, UPA, Freikorps and god knoiws what else. That's the exact reason you shoud AVOID making political discussion topics.
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I want it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could kill innocent people; MY DREAM! I hate people :D
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CEO behind Hatred responds to accusations of neo-Nazi, anti-Islamic affiliation
I bet some of you feel pretty stupid now. And well, you should.
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It proves that people love jumping to conclusions. Also it proves that gossip is well and alive on the Internet and not only women indulge in it. And finally it proves that on the Internet truth doesn't matter, just create a thread, write something and to people who barely use their brain cells it'll become a fact in a matter of seconds.
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Well, I think it proves nothing, one way of the other. It's a simple denial. Few people have the guts to say "Yeah, I'm a racist neo-nazi" anyway, especially when they also want to sell something or otherwise appeal to the masses.
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Why would they say they're something they're not? You do the same thing, jump to conclusions. Just because people like a group on Facebook or criticize something that doesn't make them anti-whatever. I think that people are not scared to admit to being anti-something if they truly are.
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Because of the stigma that comes with right-wing views, the same stigma you're seeing here. If you want to be in the mass-market, be it as a political party, as a music band or even as a videogame, you can't afford to be openly racist or a neo-nazi. I think there's plenty of evidence and literature about this, so I will stop here. Think about it for a minuteif you want.
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I meant mass market in a broader way, as opposed to frowned-upon niches in general.
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You can't afford to be racist and neonazi if you actually want to be a good person.
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So your definition is that being racist, nazi or whatever kind of hatemonger makes you good?
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There is no definition of a good person that includes promoting hate and violence.
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Uh what? What does any kind of "pitchfork-driven moron who can't google" have to do with your idea of racism and other kinds of hate being good traits?
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You clearly suggested, that racists and hatemongers are good people since it is only my claim that racism and hate is not a trait of a good person.
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"That's a matter of definition, I think. Also, nobody asked for being a good person anyway." in reply to my statement that it's not good to be racist. That suggests that there is at least one other definition according to which being racist is good.
"So you claim. + unrelated babbling" in reply to my statement that definition of a good person in support of racism, violence and hate simply does not exist. That suggests that it is only me who thinks that racism etc. is not a good trait and therefore the most widely accepted definition of goodness is the one of supporting racism, violence and hate.
So yeah, you pretty much said that you see racism and hate as good.
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So you're saying that everyone who writes books, creates games, directs movies and so on can't deny such accusations because it doesn't mean squat? So no matter what they say - if they like a Facebook page - they surely are lovers of the ideas presented in that page. And if they say they're not - they're lying? Well, I urge you to think about THIS for a minute as the logic presented in your post is flawed as hell. A bit paranoid too.
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In a way, it's like that. Some accusations can't be effectively denied because the general expectation is that they would be denied in any case. I'm not saying it's fair, but I think that's the way things work.
In the specific case, a like on a Facebook page doesn't prove much and a denial from the guy doesn't prove much, either.
I don't see the flaw in my logic; this said, I would illogically bet 10 bucks that they actually are a bunch of racist nationalists.
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What denial? You're acting like you know him better than he knows himself. He explained everything perfectly, you may want to read that article again. And if you really think you know him better than he knows himself then there's a word for it - ignornace.
Besides, even if he WAS anti-Islam and/or anti-communist - so what? It doesn't change anything. We're talking about a developer, not a private person. It's his private business what he believes is right or wrong and no one should be interested in that. But on the internet there are plenty of people who sniff other people's lives and often even more, tell them how to live. I will never understand why people care so much about other people's lives. That's why I never understood those websites where they report every action of every celeb there is. It's pathetic and sad. And those dudes here were going through a private Facebook page to say who liked what, is this even serious? Is this still real life? Laughable.
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If you don't want to call it a denial, let's call it his explaination. My point stands, I don't know that person at all and I don't claim to, but I am free to believe or not believe his words - or anyone else's, obviously. This has nothing to do with ignorance.
About the public vs. private issue, I simply disagree. A developer is a person and a company is also an association of persons. I don't care about celebrity gossip and it's a completely different matter. But I do want to know if the money I spend (in videogames or in anything else) contributes to make richer someone I dislike or despise. And if that's the case, I will use my money differently, when possible. If you do not care about this aspect of society and economy, it's your choice and I'm not trying to teach you how to live. Are you?
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Well, if you don't believe him I sure hope you do have a good reason. Otherwise you may as well not believe anyone and not believing anyone or questioning every word another person says is not healthy. But it's your choice after all, believe what you want. Just don't say he's lying without any proof, that's all.
As to the other case - good luck looking at every developer's Facebook page to see if he deserves your money or not. Sounds hella fun.
And of course I don't tell you how to live your life. It's none of my business whatsoever. I can, however, offer advice from time to time or talk about certain aspects of people's lives if they brought it up in the first place. But I never tell anyone how to live or what to do with their lives.
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Following your paragraph order:
I don't really believe him because I think there are clues (not proof) against him and because I think he has reasons to lie. And yes, I do tend to question every word I hear, especially in public communication. Call me paranoid if you will. I won't be offended.
I don't do that systematically. I might do it occasionally if I had a reason to, but if someone else does the digging, I'll take a look at their findings. Again, this goes beyond gaming.
Fine, then. We can agree that criticism and debate over issues which involve people don't always equal preaching or teaching. Anything and anyone can be discussed.
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Yeah, I don't think I have anything more to add :)
Also, I don't think being paranoid is offensive. I am paranoid when it comes to certain things as well. It's certainly not easy to live with but other than that it's not bad. And yeah, I'm talking about real paranoia ;P
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