Do you think Faith in general is needed to keep up a positive attitude?
What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God Himself." [Blaise Pascal, Pensees #425]
Pascal described it fairly well. Man was indeed created in need of his Creator. While that need is not completely satisfied without a personal relationship with God, that does not preclude mankind from seeking to "fill the void" with other things. Just as a thirsty dog will drink from the ocean, a man who turns away from God must necessarily turn to something else. It is his nature, and you can best believe he will defend his substitute religion tenaciously.
What does this mean in the context of the OP? It means that having faith is in man's nature, whether he acknowledge it or not.
P.S. (I am using the word "religion" here in its general meaning of a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.)
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But the Creator of the universe was an Aythya that laid an egg from where the world was born. So if I want to become religious and serve my Creator, should I now go feed some ducks in Her name?
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What does this mean in the context of the OP? It means that having faith is in man's nature, whether he acknowledge it or not.
well said.
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Man was indeed created in need of his Creator.
Since Man was not created but evolved, this cannot be true. I am sure any desire for purpose that people might have can be explained biologically and psychologically and probably has its origin in the evolutionary process (just like other things, for instance superstition).
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Aythyas have been proven by biology to lay eggs that birth new life. Birds have been proven to have been giant dinos by evolution. So if we extrapolate the size of birds at any given time back enough billion years, it's almost proven by science that our Creator is a cosmic sized duck.
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That couldn't make more sense. I'm convinced. I will start worshipping the giant duck from now on and sacrifice old bread in the pond.
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The only Faith I need is that 1981 album by The Cure, bruh.
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I hope I'm not misunderstanding what you mean. If the point is that our ideas affect quality of our life - I totally understand and agree. I started reading a book yesterday - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28257707-the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-f-ck .. While vulgar and sort of edgy, it really puts into perspective how viewing life and understanding your emotions affect your life.
As in faith - I dont think I have had faith in anything myself. Maybe I'm arrogant towards the concept of faith as such. But spiritually I believe in nothing. I keep open mind towards ideas. But living life I believe that whats there is there. I understand that there is suffering and pain on earth and I dont see a single evidence of there being omniscient, omnipotent being. That said - I understand faith humans have in religion. When a person needs some kind of point of reference that helps them through life, if they choose that to be religion and it helps them on personal level to deal with shit life throws at them - I respect that. But I think having faith in religion is something of a previous century and we, as a species, should concentrate on having different faith into something else. Why ? Not because I dislike religion or religious people - because religion in 21st century is a business and from what it seems the thing it does is segregate and seed hate. I've seen numerous people who have fucked their lives up by being so weak on personal level that they give away everything to churches and pastors.. and god forbid all those sectists. keep in mind I said - I THINK. It doesnt mean I'm saying lets disband religions and kill everyone. just pointing out my opinion for the sake of discussion ;)
I might say I have faith in science. I'm longing about stuff that's out there in the universe, philosophy of how and when we got here and the neverending pursuit of scientific discovery and progress. I think saying that god made universe and us is the lazy way out. What's the point of living if answer to everything is "god made it" ? In the end my life choices are made by my ideals and values. I try to practice humility, compassion and fairness. I try to be friendly and help out a person in need. To improve myself and eventually help as many people as I can while enjoying the time I have with friends and family. Why I mentioned religion at all ? Because I know I'm a wicked sinner and if there is religion I would probably be thrown in hell. So I dont do it for some higher power or salvation of my soul. I do it because thats what good people do. Just because I do fucked up shit and think fucked up thoughts doesnt make me a bad person that deserves to fry in hell (or what other religions have in store for sinners). So to conclude - to improve our lives and quality of our thoughts and eventually grow as persons, I think we should concentrate more on our personal growth and our own values and principles instead of holding on to pre set valued and principles that religions have set for us. in other words - have faith in ourselves.
I just hope it didnt come out as offensive towards religions as that was not my point. Not everyone can be thrown in one bag and people right here in SG forum have proven numerous times that religious people are understanding and respectful. This semi-rant was not about people like you my good fellow citizens :)
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I hope I'm not misunderstanding what you mean. If the point is that our ideas affect quality of our life - I totally understand and agree. I started reading a book yesterday - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28257707-the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-f-ck .. While vulgar and sort of edgy, it really puts into perspective how viewing life and understanding your emotions affect your life.
thanks for sharing that book.
But living life I believe that whats there is there. I understand that there is suffering and pain on earth and I dont see a single evidence of there being omniscient, omnipotent being.
whats there is there isn't enough for me but would also want to know why it's there, and religion was the only thing that gave me logical answers about why we have pain, suffering or cruelty and also have goodness and morality, i wouldn't believe what religions tells me about anything unless i got to know for sure with evidence that said religion is real according to my criteria, reasoning and logic and applying some science also won't harm so it's a long way to go before reaching that point.
if you have failed to see a single evidence of the existence of a supreme being who is omniscient, you'd also be automatically not believing that there is a creator of anything of this world be cause if you believe that there is a creator then you'd at least accept that creator is more intellegent and knowledgeable than humans, tha said, how would you explain DNA for example, is it preprogramed or just random, does is it serve a purpose or completely has no meaning and that's just one example.
Penis has always been a good example (at least for me ๐๐) to debunk the theory that nothing has a reason, why the only thing that stands up thinking about sexual activities is penis? and why it stands to begin with, is it serving any purpose? considering that it's uncontrollable reaction, it can't be nothing put a prebuilt mechanisim that is there for a reason, i see intelligence here and logically can't accept that as a result of randomness, also you can't get same results of anything applying randomness.
It always makes sense to me when someone says "i don't have faith nor i believe in God cuz i don't need either in my life" but when someone say "i don't believe in God nor i have faith cuz God doesn't exist and faith is an illusion" while it's scientifically imposible to prove or disprove those two concepts, that's when confusion starts to kick in.
When a person needs some kind of point of reference that helps them through life, if they choose that to be religion and it helps them on personal level to deal with shit life throws at them.
I always care about the truth and reality about things regardless how far i have to go or how much effort i need to spend to reach that goal, i wouldn't go for faith just as a point of reference but rather for i have learned enough using my own reasoning and logic for this idea to be a real concept that is worth of following.
I've seen numerous people who have fucked their lives up by being so weak on personal level that they give away everything to churches and pastors.
you might see it as a fuck up and you might feel your life is fucked up if you loose everything but doesn't necessarily means it is as said, these people might see this as the best investment according to thier experince in life and personal beliefs that might be tottally different than yours.
So to conclude - to improve our lives and quality of our thoughts and eventually grow as persons, I think we should concentrate more on our personal growth and our own values and principles instead of holding on to pre set valued and principles that religions have set for us.
if i'm created by a higher being, i don't see any reasons why i wouldn't follow instructions set by that creator, an instruction manual makes it easier to deal with a device or a machine than figureing out how it works on our own, we might ruin it in the process.
on the other hand, if i'm tottally convinced and 100% sure that religions is nothing but maybe away of life made by man, i'd agree that i'm not necessarily need to follow that but wouldn't mind learning one thing or two that is good for me.
I just hope it didnt come out as offensive towards religions as that was not my point. Not everyone can be thrown in one bag and people right here in SG forum have proven numerous times that religious people are understanding and respectful. This semi-rant was not about people like you my good fellow citizens :)
i wouldn't feel offended just for someone showing his own opinion about anything in a respective way that doesn't intentionally degrade anyone, thanks for your contribution to the topic.
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Thanks for answer :) I appreciate when OP actually respond when they create a discussion :D
About the reason we are here and our biological functions (DNA, penis etc).. I personally consider us to be just another animal on this planet that has evolved up to this point. Because to be honest science has gone far enough to disprove the fact that something created us (at least as christianity puts it).. I dont think there is a single proof to not believe in evolution. Millions of years will do this to us.
When we look at human body as a whole it all seems so perfectly balanced and thought out that it might seem its created by someone. But when you look at all the traits individually (the ones we have gained throughout generations, the ones we have lost) it all comes together as failed or successful mutations that adapt to our living conditions. Penis gets erect because we need to reproduce which is debatably the only reason we are here (look at insects and animals - they have no other reason on this earth aside from reproduction.. we have evolved into sentient beings that think and have ambitions and emotions. Animals show us that biologically it's just about the instinct to reproduce and create offsprings). Universe is unimaginably huge and statistically everything could happen and evolve. I think it all happened naturally because the place where earth and life on it formed happened by very logical processes we understand. Science can explain a lot and we know how earth formed, how life formed, even how universe exists and how it became what it is now.
Science has yet to prove or disprove what actually caused this all to happen. I respect and like Stephen Hawkings theories about universe. With conclusion that we have still to find what set off the big bang that created us over millions of years. That could just as well be that some omnipotent being set it off because by far science can just say that before big bang there was no physics hence, something we dont understand yet. And that could be this God. But it could just as well be easily explained with science that everything that happened has logical rules and is understandable to us without giving credit to God.
Religion as reference - what I meant is that people find it reassuring there is something better waiting in afterlife. That there is God that cares about us. I know people who have gone through traumas and religion helps them to get through. But as I explained previously, science has disproven a lot of things religion says happened so I just dont find it very believable when religion states that god created us and earth and animals. World is complex and to me it seems religion simplifies everything. It makes everything easily digestible for people who dont understand something. We didnt know how humans where created - so naturally god made us and the earth. But now we know how human bodies evolve and how we came to happen as we are. So I respect the faith part of religion that helps people. I really dont care for the idea and story of religions. I think it would be natural to evolve religion along with science. Keep the faith but eventually understand that what bible claims is just scientifically impossible.
What I said about fucking life up - I had a family that lived near my apartment when I was younger. The kids couldnt speak properly, wore same clothes in their twenties that they wore in teens. They lived 5 or 6 people in crammed flat. They actually got very good money through social services. But they gave almost everything to churches. They barely had anything to eat, kids where at this point retards and they lived in filth. But religions received hundreds of euros from them alone. Thats why I am saying religion is business in 21st century. There are countless people who simply fuck their lives up.
In the end we come down to either believing or not in god - and it baffles me that despite humanity being evolved to a point where we dont need these "easy" answers, we still ignore the science. So as I said - I do respect faith in religion and what it does. But I dont really care for religion as such.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2094.A_Briefer_History_of_Time?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=kbXPkq5OJo&rank=6 - this is a great book. It shows us what we believed ages ago and how scientific theory evolved. Here he points out about creation of big bang and gods existence in this idea, because we cant explain it at this point. But whats it good for saying god made it and being done with it ? I personally am more excited about learning what other secrets universe holds us. Whats beyond black holes, whats beyond our own observable universe. What happened before big bang. Are there more dimensions ? Are time and place different dimensions that can exist separately ? It all falls to the ground if we accredit it all to god. Thats why I have faith in science. Realizing we are tiny little insects in the vast universe and if there is god that created universe, we are so insignificant that god wouldnt care about us. Can you prove there is god ? It's not a theory if you cant prove it. It's as much of a theory as saying that we are an experiment done by aliens who bread us and released us on earth to see what will come of us (as we do with ant farms etc)
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believe me i answered this one too in depth but for some reason i submitted it and didn't find it later on not sure what happend, maybe because i like opining two pages on the same thing cuz i don't like scrolling a lot, so dissapointed.
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Penis has always been a good example (at least for me ๐๐) to debunk the theory that nothing has a reason, why the only thing that stands up thinking about sexual activities is penis? and why it stands to begin with, is it serving any purpose? considering that it's uncontrollable reaction, it can't be nothing put a prebuilt mechanisim that is there for a reason, i see intelligence here and logically can't accept that as a result of randomness, also you can't get same results of anything applying randomness.
You should educate yourself about evolution (maybe read something from Richard Dawkins). Evolution explains everything, actually. It explains your anatomy and also the many imperfections in your body (which creation myths do not explain). Evolution is not random. Mutation is random, natural selection is not. To give a (simplistic and exemplary) answer to your penis thing: imagine all apes have penises that do not erect. Then thanks to a mutation one of them has a mighty erection when aroused. This ape now has more effective sex and reproduces more than other apes. Meaning that mutation gets added to the shared gene pool more and more, and a million years later every ape has a nice erection. So the natural advantage the ape got through mutation is the reason why this mutation succeeds Other mutations might not. This process of natural selection is not random, but based on advantages that mutations give the creature.
It always makes sense to me when someone says "i don't have faith nor i believe in God cuz i don't need either in my life" but when someone say "i don't believe in God nor i have faith cuz God doesn't exist and faith is an illusion" while it's scientifically imposible to prove or disprove those two concepts, that's when confusion starts to kick in.
Really? I feel it's the other way around. The belief in a supernatural being cannot be justified with the benefits that this belief might have or not have. Meaning the argument "you don't believe in god? But the church does so much good" is nonsense.
Believing in god because you feel you need to believe in it seems very wrong. Just because you feel you need god doesn't make him real. Believing in god because you have proof for his existence seems very correct. But of course that proof is simply not there.
Also, the inability to disprove supernatural beings is not an argument for their existence. If it were, I could claim that the flying spaghetti monster is real and you would have to accept it, if you can't disprove it. Which is nonsense, of course.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
A supernatural, all-knowing and all-powerful being is quite the extraordinary claim. The burden of proof is on the ones claimingit is real, not on everyone else.
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let me know what you think of this:
since Man is the only creature who possess an extraordinary and sometimes unsual intellectual abilities that cleary shows what he is capable of doing such being creative and productive, it's believed that Man was the creator of everything.
following our knowledge of evolution, reversed one, one can confidently say that Man used to possess even greater abilities and knowledge and a great living example for that is the 7 wonders.
going back in time, Man used to be of a supreme power made him capable of creating all what we have today then he went through a process of reversed evolution that caused him to loose most of his abilities, similar to self-destruciton, till he was barely survivng but he kept some intellectual abilities that he could use to relearn some of the lost knowledge form his own creation, even all memories from the ancient times were erased.
The burden of proof is on the ones claimingit is real, not on everyone else.
it's a burden on those who wants to know the truth, like the burden of reseach and experiment is on who wants to advance with science.
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since Man is the only creature who possess an extraordinary and sometimes unsual intellectual abilities that cleary shows what he is capable of doing such being creative and productive, it's believed that Man was the creator of everything.
Who believes that? oO
following our knowledge of evolution, reversed one, one can confidently say that Man used to possess even greater abilities and knowledge and a great living example for that is the 7 wonders.
Ancient times have produced some spectatular monuments. But we still have way, way greater knowledge nowadays than we had back then.
going back in time, Man used to be of a supreme power made him capable of creating all what we have today then he went through a process of reversed evolution that caused him to loose most of his abilities, similar to self-destruciton, till he was barely survivng but he kept some intellectual abilities that he could use to relearn some of the lost knowledge form his own creation, even all memories from the ancient times were erased.
Evolution would never work in reverse. Natural selection in reverse just doesn't make any sense and would not happen. Maybe you could get a scenario like that if suddenly all mutations are a change for the worse. But I am not sure something like that every happened. Also, we know quite well how humans came to be and how we evolved from other apes.
it's a burden on those who wants to know the truth, like the burden of reseach and experiment is on who wants to advance with science.
So you are saying if you tell me the Bigfoot is real, I have to accept it as reality until I somehow disprove your claim? I think it makes way more sense that you have to prove Bigfoot's existence, if you want to be taken seriously.
let me know what you think of this:
I have no idea what you want to tell me with this strange thought experiment or whatever it is (if I misunderstood something completely, please elaborate). And I think it's a shame that you completely avoided a real answer to my statement. For instance, you could have reacted to the part where I explain that evolution is not random, and if you agree with it or not. Because your penis example showed that you believe evolution is random, which it is really not. I was hoping we could maybe make a little progress here. I also was hoping that you say something about what I wrote about reasons for believing in god, and that I think "because it is good for me" is not a good reason (the only good reason to believe in the existence of something is evidence for it). So if you maybe want to say anything about those things now, please go ahead.
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Who believes that? oO
Author of that theory/thoughts was purposely hidden in order to get a neutral opinion about it from you without any other exernal influence.
Ancient times have produced some spectatular monuments. But we still have way, way greater knowledge nowadays than we had back then.
greater knowledge that can't explain the 7 wonders? that is questionable, Ancient times has not produced anything actually or you don't wanna admit that ancient man is the one who did it?
And I think it's a shame that you completely avoided a real answer to my statement [...] I was hoping we could maybe make a little progress here.
you adviced me to learn more about evolution and suggested a book, guess we wouldn't make a progress here unless i get enough knowledge about that matter, yeah?
I also was hoping that you say something about what I wrote about reasons for believing in god.
i see self-contradiction here, you're basically saying that i need valid evidence to believe in God not just because i need him (makes sense so far) then since there is no such evidence (an assumption on you part), no need to believe in God, would be a waste of energy debating that cuz instead of asking for the evidence you're just imposing you're assumption that there is no evidence.
Edit:
So you are saying if you tell me the Bigfoot is real, I have to accept it as reality until I somehow disprove your claim? I think it makes way more sense that you have to prove Bigfoot's existence, if you want to be taken seriously.
i was saying that the burden of proof falls upon shoulders of those needs to proof something and since i'm not preaching nor trying to convert you i don't need to do so and the burden of research falls on shoulders of those who wants to advance with science, that was it.
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faith objectively is not needed in order to keep a positive attitude. there are plenty of atheist / agnostic people that do good things, and plenty of religious people that do bad things. anyone who needs religion to be a good person - basically not being an asshole for the fear of going to hell - is a shitty person.
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Ah yes, reminds me of the time Kirk, Spock, and McCoy met God.
The most important line from that "...a vision you created"
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We know nothing else.
i'd like to know who are you referring to with "we"? cause i know better than that myself and i'm sure everyone has a different take on it as well.
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I would never speak for anyone else. That's why I always keep my faith to myself. And I have my faith, because it was the only thing that helped me in my darkest times. It's literally the reason I am still alive.
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Faith โ religion. People tie those two together though... meh
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Religion requires faith even if not all faith is religious.
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With all the crap I've been through in my life, I have little faith in anything, and I don't rely on faith as a drive for anything. Everyone is different though, and I won't judge how people choose to cope with life, or drive forward, so long as they're actively trying to be better human beings.
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So regardless of stating that you are not necessarily refering to religious faith, but faith in general, a lot of the comments assume religious meaning behind your question.
My take on the topic is that every person is dependant on some kind of faith. Faith of a better futurte, a better tomorrow, a better self, faith of reaching a personal goal, faith in some ultimate meaning of life... literally anything we do, we do that in faith of something.
As a counterpoint, most are bringing up science, saying it does not require faith to work. Fair enough, but how did the discoveries emerge, on which we base our scientific rules and expectations? We had faith, that we can prove something trough experimenting. That we will make progress in a field. That researching a certain aspect of our reality will prove worthwhile sooner or later. Heck, even our assumptions about our basic scientific principles prove incorrect as we make new discoveries!
How else could you explain CERN? A massive, unparalelled, international scientific cooperation, which is aimed at discovering more about the fabric of our reality, trough experimenting with particles. You could say that we had scientifically based theories about it and so its rational to expect results, but theories go only so far. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they dontt, we cant be sure until we try it in practice. You could also say, the possible financial gains may drive the funding of CERN. But that is also a risky deed. One should have faith, that their investment may be fruitful/useful in the long run, to even consider investing.
So in this sense, I think everyone needs at least some kind of faith, in order to have positive outlook.
Edit: I may add, that we did not touch upon the psychological aspect of faith, which is also an interesting subject, worthy of consideration.
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Everybody has faith in something. Some have faith in God, some have faith that there is no God. Because it's true that his existence hasn't been proved by science (because by definition, God is not subject to science); but it's also true that his existence can't be absolutely denied by science. Now, each one of us has to make a decision about what we're going to believe in. It's not even as simple as "God vs No God" because there are many different religions and all claim to be the truth, but truth is exclusive so there must be one that is the only one. Which one is it? I have my belief (which I can share with you if you want), but you have to do your research and seek the truth for yourself.
Responding to your main question: not only do we need faith, but it's part of us no matter what.
I hope you get through whatever is happening in your life. If you ever need to talk to someone and there is no one else, you can count on me man.
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Everybody has faith in something. Some have faith in God, some have faith that there is no God. Because it's true that his existence hasn't been proved by science (because by definition, God is not subject to science); but it's also true that his existence can't be absolutely denied by science. Now, each one of us has to make a decision about what we're going to believe in. It's not even as simple as "God vs No God" because there are many different religions and all claim to be the truth, but truth is exclusive so there must be one that is the only one. Which one is it? I have my belief (which I can share with you if you want), but you have to do your research and seek the truth for yourself.
i haven't faced any problems accepting the idea of God existence using my reasoning, logic and bit of science but it might be tricky to know which way is the way of God and that requires so much effort and research, only those who care of knowing the truth would like to take that burden.
I hope you get through whatever is happening in your life. If you ever need to talk to someone and there is no one else, you can count on me man.
thanks a lot, who would reject that offer, i'd like to send a steam friend request if you allow me.
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Some have reasonable expectations based on available evidence. That's not the same as having faith in the idea that there is no god.
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โHas anyone provided proof of Godโs inexistence? Not even close. Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here? Not even close. Have our sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life? Not even close. Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought? Close enough. Has rationalism and moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral? Not close enough. Has secularism in the terrible 20th century been a force for good? Not even close, to being close. Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy in the sciences? Close enough. Does anything in the sciences or their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational? Not even in the ball park. Is scientific atheism a frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt? Dead on.โ
โ David Berlinski, The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions
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If a person claims that X exists and is real then the burden is on that person to supply some support for that claim, some evidence or proof that others can and should examine before accepting it.
A guy who doesn't understand or accept evolution is probably not a good mouthpeace by the way.
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Well, he's a well recognized scientist and not a theist so I would think his opinion has some value to someone like you. You think evolution has been proven by science, then why are there important scientists that don't accept it? Is your opinion more valid than theirs? Could you convince them of their error? You should be able to convince them with arguments given that you claim evolution is the truth and the burden of proof is on your side... or does that only apply to those that disagree with you? Like he said: frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt...
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I couldn't find a single scientific paper written by him. He is not a biologist, his research is in English and mathematics. As far as I can tell, he has no academic background in biology, his phd was about Wittgenstein. Probably not someone we should listen to when it comes to biology, don't you think?
97% of scientists accept evolution, according to Project Steve. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming at this point, so yes, I think this is possible to convince people, unless they follow an agenda that denies evidence. Is that what you are doing?
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My main point is in my original comment, the very definition of God cannot be grasped by merely scientific evidence because He wouldn't be subject to it. The idea of trying to prove God's existence by the scientific method is a mistake to begin with. The thing is if you think only scientific evidence is valid and you think a completely naturalistic worldview can (eventually, because it hasn't done it yet) answer absolutely everything including questions of origin, meaning, morality, etc, then you won't think outside that box. That's what I mean by faith, because you are putting all your thinking and hopes upon science and nothing else.
Of course the vast majority in the scientific community support evolution, I never denied that. Because of the thinking I just explained, scientists tend to only believe in material evidence with complete disregard (and contempt) for any other train of thought, and that shapes the way they interpret and understand evidence. That's the way they want to live their lives and I respect that, but to treat everyone else like they are just stupid because they try to see beyond just the material answers is a wrong way to see the world.
So no, I don't have an agenda that denies evidence. I have an agenda in which I feel unsatisfied with the modern naturalistic worldview and think there can also be answers in other places other than just science; and I interpret scientific evidence according to this thinking, probably like that 3% of the scientists (by the way a majority doesn't always mean they are right, just that they are a majority). And you follow the agenda of that "narrow and oppressive orthodoxy in the sciences" in which if you disagree you're looked at as a lesser by your peers (probably why there's only a small percentage that dares to disagree on the matter), and in which only science is the answer to everything.
See, our difference is in the way we approach these issues, in our way to understand the world. I think you're narrow minded and probably you think I'm narrow minded, and that's all right. Sometimes there's a complete change of heart and mind that needs to take place if you of me were to change our stances, and that's a very difficult thing. If you believe you're absolutely right and I'm a fool I understand where you're coming from (though I disagree on that hahaha) and I appreciate this conversation regardless. Cheers man.
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Fair enough. You brought up evidence based science in one of your replies, I was mainly responding to that.
I think I understand what you mean. It's an interesting topic, that's for sure.
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Beacuse I don't completely disregard evidence based science, it's just I don't think that's all there is to this reality we live in. I was just trying to say not all "smart people" believe the same thing. Although you rightly pointed out to me Berlinski isn't an expert in biology, may not be the best qualified person to criticize evolution, and may not be accepted as a real scientist by some in that community, I think many of his points in my reply still stand, as I explained before.
I'm glad you understand my point and try to converse in a civilized manner, sometimes that's a hard thing to find on this kind of forums. And yes it's very interesting and very important too; our whole worldview and our opinion about the person and concept of God defines a lot of what we think and do. Blessings to you!
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I have faith that there is such a thing as objective truth, even though no one has ever been able to prove conclusively that such a thing exists - and I doubt anyone ever will. Because without it, life becomes chaos and everything falls apart.
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There is nothing wrong with having faith. Especially if it works for you. For me, faith is a belief an outcome will go the way I want. It in itself isn't directly tied to an outcome. Therefore, I don't use faith. I take actions based on my understanding of facts and past experiences to directly achieve the outcome. I rather do something I "know" can work instead "hoping" something will work.That said, things can and will go wrong and knowing that they will helps be prepared to deal with them.
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If faith gives you hope or courage, then its a good thing to have...but that's just me
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I think faith is an illogical but necessary human trait.
We are weak creatures that are put in difficult positions are whole lives, and due to that we constantly struggle for safety while knowing it will only exist temporarily.
An 8 hour work day is only "safe" when you get home, and for many, not even then. We have to have "faith" that our struggles and sacrifices will lead us to a safer place in life....
One of my favorite authors discusses faith as one of the main 5 splinters of humanity, and writes a rather compelling scifi series about the splintering of the human condition as we colonize the stars and refine our patter of constant specializing.
For those interested the author is Gordon R Dickson and here's the link to the book series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childe_Cycle
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We are weak creatures that are put in difficult positions are whole lives, and due to that we constantly struggle for safety while knowing it will only exist temporarily.
you go without faith and happy without it but that doesn't make it illogical, people smoke cuz they like to do it and that doesn't make it healthy for them.
yes we are weak but we have unique trait that makes us stonger than a physically stronger creatures in terms of survival, we were put to difficult and harsh circumistances and conditions yes but who or what put us to those, would it be logical to say it just happened? and why do we need to follow reasons and causes to achieve safety for example? i think that kinda destroyed the theory of randomness.
One of my favorite authors discusses faith as one of the main 5 splinters of humanity, and writes a rather compelling scifi series about the splintering of the human condition as we colonize the stars and refine our patter of constant specializing.
For those interested the author is Gordon R Dickson and here's the link to the book series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childe_Cycle
thanks for sharing that.
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I think you kinda missed my point.
Being weak creatures physically, when compared to nature and other animals, has forced us to find other ways to be strong.
Like utilizing the temporary illogical act of sacrificing yourself for your tribe, but having faith that others will care for those you leave behind.
Or the illogic of spending time making music and art, instead of something more tangibly useful, yet here too our illogix inspires us to move forward.
My point is that just because something is illogical, doesnt make it wrong. But your reaction to defining faith as such, is a good example of what most anyone would feel who has a strong connection with a religion. I believe faith goes beyond religion, which defines your type of faith, but is not faith itself even if referred to as such.
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Faith is like when everything is going wrong, someone saying "Everything's gonna be alright.", you know it has no meaning but it sounds nice and it is what you want to hear...
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i dont believe you can do it by training and it has nothing to do with that .because it comes from understandings maybe bad incidents in your life and when you pull the trigger by watching either movies or being in these situations it reminds you of yourself . it comes from you not what you see or specific characters .
but i believe we should have faith in something atleast doesnt have to be religious but you cant live like you dont believe in nothing ...
also for me personally most important thing that matters is purpose of living ! why do we live ! only to be born have a job marrie and grow old and dying !! its pointless im looking for the answer and im not satisfied only by living like this i think there should be a purpose after being born and after dying because otherwise there is no point of living big question i ask of myself every day what purpose is big enough to satisfies us
..
im not happy with this life looking for the most important purpose and still i cant find it maybe i`m sad or depressed but even if i wasnt i wouldnt be happy only by living without a faith nor purpose of living i always think there is something after dying that only our souls can prove it no one knows what happends after dying no one came back to tell us and thats a big question .
every time i think about this world gets worst and worst cause i think of my self being in the world for nothing its really sad every time i`m happy this thoughts comes back and again i think its not a purpose and its not the point of living ..
for that matter i only find god the answer cause there should be an answer no one can be satisfied with living and dying !! what happends after that if we all are agreed on humans have soul ..
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for that matter i only find god the answer cause there should be an answer no one can be satisfied with living and dying !! what happends after that if we all are agreed on humans have soul ..
there is so many who are happy with the idea of living then dying and back to the nothing they came from and that'd be the end of it and their logic and reasoning is not conflecting with it.
if the only logical answer you've found is God then don't stop and try to learn more and find out what kind of God is that, and for what purpose he created us, i geuss there is no better way to figure out those answer but getting them from God himself, we have so many religions and scriptures that claims to be the word and message of God, surf through them and find the one best compatible with your own logic and reasoning and don't care about what people think as long as it passed your own criteria.
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yeah thats the problem no one can either deny or proves the existense of god cause no one can see him ... only answer for me is god cause i dont see humans life is only to be born grow old and die !! whats the point of it ! so what animals born and they`ll die whats the diffrence between them and us ? there should be one rather than our will and being able to think
but i cant accept it ! born to die and then nothing ! i believe something real is behind this if people believe in humans souls or its proved by
however i do think we are diffrent from animals because we have souls deep down im pretty sure there is an after life and thats why i keep living unfortunately i cannot be happy only by living and dying and thats it !! and i dont believe in that but i guess we`ll eventually find out when we die i wonder what happends next thinking almost every day about this topic good you mentioned it
and those who are satisfied like this theire just running from the fact that theire going to die one day scared so much of death
you cant run from the facts everyone of em tells you i dont believe in god there isnt any life after this one but i believe theire making excuses to forget it
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however i do think we are diffrent from animals because we have souls deep down im pretty sure there is an after life and thats why i keep living unfortunately i cannot be happy only by living and dying and thats it !! and i dont believe in that but i guess we`ll eventually find out when we die i wonder what happends next thinking almost every day about this topic good you mentioned it.
i think no one can answer your questions than God himself, if i were you, i'd rather find those answers before i die and do what it takes than having some regrets in the after life.
and those who are satisfied like this theire just running from the fact that theire going to die one day scared so much of death
you cant run from the facts everyone of em tells you i dont believe in god there isnt any life after this one but i believe theire making excuses to forget it.
excuses or not that doesn't change anything about the fact that truth is one, everybody is just basicly practicing thier rights given by God, to believe or not is not the problem, the thing is are you willing to face the consequenses for own decisions if there would be any? if the answer is yes then i geuss nothing else matters.
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Honestly faith is too close to hope for me before. I've learned to be pessimistic as I've been hurt to much in the past believing in something good.
I had faith in god, it actually pushed me towards suicide when I was younger 'cuase I thought when I died I'd go to heaven and be happy. once I learned suicide is a sin It kept me from killing myself.
but I eventually lost faith, and realized the damage baptism had caused me. I still struggle with the shame and self hatred that was the basis of it's teachings, and seeing how it and the catholic church promote horrible bigotry and just convince people to give them power and money, it's been very hard for me to have any faith. I sometimes wish I had a faith that would give me a purpose in life, to guide me, but the closest thing I have is my hope in death. we don't know what happens after death and what I hope and have forced myself to believe is that it all ends. That the pain and suffering I'm experiencing now won't matter and that I'll cease to exist do I have to suffer no more because I can't imagine an eternity where I'm me and in anyway happy. I have faith in death, and that's all I can convince myself of to comfort me.
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I hope you overcome whatever bad experince with life you have been through.
I sometimes wish I had a faith that would give me a purpose in life, to guide me, but the closest thing I have is my hope in death.
this dude claims to have found his purpose of life throughout some kinda faith, worth checking, The Purpose of Life - Jeffrey Lang
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it never clicked into my mind the idea that everything is for nothing and serving no purpose, it's easy to find the purpose of everything around you and it will be always connected to serving you somehow generally or exclusively as a human being while it gets tricky to find your own specially with all the influence from people around or media.
if you managed to accept the concept of existence fo God but didn't feel right about the way you took trying to connect yourself with him is not a dead end unless you tried every single known way possible that claim to connect you with God, if you truely want to know the truth about him and nothing else is motivating you, he'll guide you through, i strongly believe in that.
I've always looked at life as a video game, a grindy one where people look at the end-game and see if it's worth the grind or not.
for me the end-game of real life is not worth the hassle, many have beaten the end-game and leveled up to some point that they can't go any further so they diverted thier efforts to charity and helping others to fill the gap and keep themselves busy and part of being good in general.
Iternity sounds a good end-game achievement for me, worth the grind, scientists are hoping to beat death by overcoming the causes death but that doesn't make sense to me since i have a different take on it and deffirent way to achieve it that is less grindy and hassle-free, at least i and scientists have common faith that Iternity can be achieved.
we wouldn't reach that far in terms of knowledge and technology unless someone decided to put some effort to experiment and research and i think finding the purpose of life and the reason why we're here deserves the same attention and efforts.
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I've struggled on and off with faith for many years...used to be very devout when i was preteen. then in an admittedly hypocritical flip, i let the over-zealousness of others and teen angst drive me away from God/religion/etc in my high school days... Oddly enough, what eventually brought me back was a very science-heavy curriculum in my later college years / realizing the enormous complexity and interconnectedness of everything. Taking biology, genetic, chemistry, and physics so close together while also reading about sci-fi that got me thinking at least on a small scale about astronomy and especially a lecture on the interconnections of some biological ecosystems. For me personally, it was hard to keep believing that everything simply arose from chaos; I don't completely reject chaos theory but for me, I guess it all reaffirmed my faith.
Fast forward to present day, I still can't say definitively that there is a higher power but I Believe that there is. I still have a hard time with religion; even being raised as a very loosely practicing christian, I have trouble accepting that Christ was anything more than a man. Maybe I'm wrong about that; will probably never know. at least not this side of death.
But there's a lot we humans don't really understand and we think we're more clever than we really are. I love science and it is practically my bible. And maybe it's because I've read too many sci-fi and fantasy books but in the grand scheme of things, I feel like there is so much we can't even scratch the surface of even with the help of decades and decades of knowledge and the best and brightest of our species. No doubt that we've had some accomplishments and I don't mean to detract from them but we're nowhere near being able to (have commoners) regrow body parts, transfer consciousness, scan the body for every know disease, explore the stars beyond our solar system, or so much more. And as great as science is, it still can't explain some phenomenon ... have you ever had a sensation where you're thinking about someone and as you are thinking of them, they call you? Sure, one occurrence could be coincidence. But what about when it has happened multiple times with the same person who lives many miles away, at random and unscheduled times of day, and you never have the same sensation as a false positive? What about dreams? Are they really just the cleaning cycle on our brain's dishwasher or are they something more? You might not think it from reading this, but I actually tend to be a pretty big skeptic to the point where I can get on my friends nerves sometimes. And yet, I think there's still room for a lot of the metaphysical things like Faith that science can't explain... (but I still think Sylvia Brown and John Edward are frauds)
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I have trouble accepting that Christ was anything more than a man. Maybe I'm wrong about that; will probably never know. at least not this side of death.
what's your take on this? what makes you believe the Christ is a man (i have a reason to use "is" insead of "was")?
i believe everybody would know what reality is after server wipe and finding our who is the real GM.
I love science and it is practically my bible.
If there is an ancient book that contains a 100% accurate scientific things that has been only discovered or proven as a fact recently that no way in the world such technology were available back then and also contains things that no one has able to prove it true or false yet, claiming to be the word of God, would you consider reading that book?
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what makes you believe the Christ is a man (i have a reason to use "is" insead of "was")?
i believe everybody would know what reality is after server wipe and finding our who is the real GM.
I like to be open minded. To clarify what I was saying before: from historical record, I think even the most skeptical can agree that someone named or going by the name "Jesus Christ" existed at some time approximately 2020 years ago, give or take. I am good up to this point. And what I describe as my college epiphany / divine moment where I just "felt" that all the incredible things in the world simply could not exist as they are now without some sort of higher power / Creator / God / The Force / whatever you want to call it. All I meant about Christ, is that I personally have not have any equivalent sort of epiphany for the existence of a "son of God" in the way that I did for the existence of God. My only other reference points to Christ are from the Christian bible...
While I am more spiritual now, I'm still not very religious and I am still a bit skeptical of the bible for many reasons (e.g. reasons of translation inaccuracies from Hebrew to English, the long time span from original writing to present, control of the church/bible text during the Middle Ages, potential biases/etc of the men writing/recording it to paper). So I guess you could say my Faith in God is based in a form of rationalism rather than religion whereas since the concept of Christ derives mostly from a religious background, I have a harder time relating. I am open to revising my views based on new information but I basically consider the bible the be a tainted source for getting scientifically accurate or at least rational information (not that it is bad or immoral; it is fine as a moral guide, but I'm not talking morals). So any rationalization of Christ as more than a person who lived ~2020 years ago would need to have some basis completely independent of and unrelated to the bible for me personally to truly buy into and accept it completely.
Talking about server wipes and knowing who the GM is, sure. Same could be said for "we're living in the matrix" / "alien VR" / etc. Just hope the GM doesn't get a kick out of TPK's ... TWK's?
If there is an ancient book [..] would you consider reading that book?
Assuming iI have access to it and it is in a language I can read, sure. I like reading so that's not much of a hard sell lol. But believing in it's authenticity. Well, all I can say it that I'd burn that bridge when I come to it. I'm open minded enough that I think God could make me believe if he wants me to believe... To quote Stephen King: "There will be water if God wills it."
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I think even the most skeptical can agree that someone named or going by the name "Jesus Christ" existed at some time approximately 2020 years ago.
Although we have some common thoughts about "the existence of son of God and its necessity", i tend to disagree with you about the idea that "Jesus Christ" didn't exist 2020 years ago just because it's not historically proven, assuming that i understood you right, it might refer to a person whose name is not necessary pronounced the same in its original form or language.
some people mistakenly translate proper nouns while they shouldn't even if it has a meaning in targeted language, just a general note.
Assuming iI have access to it and it is in a language I can read, sure. I like reading so that's not much of a hard sell lol. But believing in it's authenticity. Well, all I can say it that I'd burn that bridge when I come to it. I'm open minded enough that I think God could make me believe if he wants me to believe... To quote Stephen King: "There will be water if God wills it."
since reading is your thing, i assume that you wouldn't have a problem applying some objective criticism to any book you read nor you'd have a problem noticing the difference
i have a free electronic copy for you in your preferred language and format (PDF, Ebook, webpage, OS or Android App) also it's fairly easy to obtain a hard copy, i may also point out those scientific findings first for you to figure out yourself if it's worth the time, the book is fairly big.
while it's a no secret, i'd prefer elaborating more on this over steam to keep the general idea of Faith without limiting it to religious aspect of it so if you allow me, i'd send a steam friend request.
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Assuming that book is any form of the bible, the quran, the tanakh/torah, the gita or any other religious text, I'll pass. I'm spiritual but not religious.. That's not a stab at those religions so much as me not following a religious system and not having any desired to be "converted" to one. I am happy to Believe what I Believe without needing any set of pre-ordained set of practices/rituals/eating habits to follow. If I had to pick a religious text to read with zero commitment to join a religion, I'd probably go with Scientology's purely because I understand it would really just be science fiction ;-P ... That said, if were to seriously consider joining a religion, I think the strongest factor that would draw me to one would be the actions of the practitioners (both present and over the course of history). The ones that currently rank highest with me based on the actions of people I have personally interacted with and come to respect are actually Methodists and Mormons (who in my mind I jokingly refer to as M&Ms). I understand it's a completely subjective measure based largely on serendipity and my own reactions, but it's also a personal choice so meh.
On the other hand, if that book is NOT related to any religion, then sure. Just let me know the author/title. I am sure can find it at my library if its as easy to obtain as you say.
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Edit:
Assuming that book is any form of the bible, the quran, the tanakh/torah, the gita or any other religious text, I'll pass. I'm spiritual but not religious.. That's not a stab at those religions so much as me not following a religious system and not having any desired to be "converted" to one. I am happy to Believe what I Believe without needing any set of pre-ordained set of practices/rituals/eating habits to follow.
that wasn't an attempt to convert anybody actually, i asked you if you would read it after knowing the information i gave you although it claims to be the word of God, "would you consider reading it?" is different than "would you consider following it?"
ููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููู
yea no worries i was just making sure you really mean it when saying i like to be open minded and reading is my thing, so basically you accept facts or truth as long as it's not religious, totally undersandable
I am happy to Believe what I Believe without needing any set of pre-ordained set of practices/rituals/eating habits to follow.
this is really interesting, never met any body who believes in God but at the same time he doesn't wanna any pre-set orders from him as if it's something customizable, geuss no need to share that book because unfortunaly, it's another book of God.
let me know what you think of this:
since Man is the only creature who possess an extraordinary and sometimes unsual intellectual abilities that cleary shows what he is capable of doing such being creative and productive, it's believed that Man was the creator of everything.
following our knowledge of evolution, reversed one, one can confidently say that Man used to possess even greater abilities and knowledge and a great living example for that is the 7 wonders.
going back in time, Man used to be of a supreme power made him capable of creating all what we have today then he went through a process of reversed evolution that caused him to loose most of his abilities, similar to self-destruciton, till he was barely survivng but he kept some intellectual abilities that he could use to relearn some of the lost knowledge form his own creation, even all memories from the ancient times were erased.
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If there is an ancient book that contains a 100% accurate scientific things that has been only discovered or proven as a fact recently that no way in the world such technology were available back then and also contains things that no one has able to prove it true or false yet, claiming to be the word of God, would you consider reading that book?
I definitely would, but since there is no such book, I guess I don't have to. ^^
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I definitely would, but since there is no such book, I guess I don't have to. ^^
what made you so sure that there is no such book? isn't there any fraction of a tiny possibilty that i might've laid my hand on a book that survived the Mongolian invasion? or fire of the great liberary of Alexandria? or even a book from Ancient Egypt?
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Well, I think we both know you are talking about the quran. And I have looked at the evidence years ago. Like the embryo thing. It's supposedly described as something chewed. And muslim websites love to post images from chewing gum that has the shape of an embryo (no doubt formed to match the embryo shape). But let's be real. This is not an accurate description of an embryo. Not at all. Also, this passage also says we are formed out of clay, which I am sure we'll agree that we are not. If a book says 10 wrong things and then a right one (sometimes by chance), I will not suddenly declare it the word of god. This is always the case with these old and supposedly holy books. They get a lot of science stuff wrong, and what they supposedly get right is so vague it just doesn't pass as real evidence.
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so you ignored the three possibilties i gave you and decided to go with what you believed to be the case assuming that i'm taking about Quran, fair enough ๐๐.
First of all, let me try to explain something here, if i was to study religions or anything actually, i would never depend on un authenticated unknown website to be my source of information but rather would use the original scripture then apply objective criticism, the chewing gum thing doesn't look like an evidence to me but rather a diversion, the thing is Quran explained that embryo evolve into bite-sized morsel of flesh that looks like a bite-sized piece of meat that you can easily chew.
Considering that Quran is not a book of science or at least that isn't the purpose of its existance, it described the stages of human embryo evaluation in an incredibily accurate and most comprehensive way to anyone who reads it without getting into a lot of complicated details and that was just one thing Quran has to reveal for you when it wasn't possible by any means to discover that back then.
now the question is, what does the Quran say about the embryo and what does the modern science say, let me quot some translated
relative verses from Quran.
Sura- Al-Muminoon (12-14)
(12) And certainly did- We create man from an extract of clay
(13) Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging [i.e., the womb].
(14) Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allฤh, the best of creators.
about man was first created from clay, will just use same basic way that many theories use except for this one is supported with practical science, we all know that the five major minerals in the human body are calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, and magnesium ( Mineral nutrient - Wikipedia )and those is considered inorganic minerals that represents about 40 to 45 percent of Soil volume.
Although chemical reaction is a great example for one or more substances can be converted to one or more different substances applying some reactants, it's not known yet what was the process that converted first Man from clay to whatever he came to be after that and that doesn't deny the whole thing unless you think the Man has reached the cap of maximum knowledge.
about human embryo stages that is mentioned above, you can rely on this for more elaboration or you can find a more neutral but science-based source yourself.
But let's be real. This is not an accurate description of an embryo. Not at all.
let's see if you'd still have the same opinion after getting into what i've presented to you, if you will.
If a book says 10 wrong things and then a right one (sometimes by chance), I will not suddenly declare it the word of god.
totally agree with that, if a book says even 1 thing wrong and 10 right i wouldn't recognise it as a word of God but rather a nice try, it's different when a book says something wrong than people claims said book to say so.
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about human embryo stages that is mentioned above, you can rely on this for more elaboration or you can find a more neutral but science-based source yourself.
Well, thank you for the link, I will indeed rely on the information provided there. Let me quote from your own source:
The author of the Quran described a sequence of stages, which when examined without the false definitions and arbitrary assumptions made by apologists, clearly has no resemblance to the actual development process of a child in the womb, according to critics.
let's see if you'd still have the same opinion after getting into what i've presented to you, if you will.
Oh, absolutely. Your link confirmed my view on the matter. Thanks again! :)
it's not known yet what was the process that converted first Man from clay to whatever he came to be after that and that doesn't deny the whole thing unless you think the Man has reached the cap of maximum knowledge.
Just to be sure that I don't misunderstand you, you are saying you believe the first Man was literally made out of actual clay, as described in scripture?
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while you might be still celebrating the joy of victory, let me ruin your moment of entertainment by saying this, congratulation, you've fallen victim to reverse psychology ๐ ๐ ๐
when you denied my possession of a book the way I described instead of maybe trying to get more information about it, it clearly showed that this discussion is not going to be of any benefit to neither you nor me because when I decide to go on with such intellectual discussions I bare in mind two potential conclusions, either I am as solid as a rock so is my faith or there is something skeptic about the whole thing and I need to reconsider it, and that is based on how strong the opposite argument is.
Since I found that you donโt embrace the same concept (at least that was what I felt), I decided to give you what you wanna hear to see if you really care about evidence or you only care about what you wanna hear or impose.
Now that you didnโt assume that i mightโve sent you the wrong source (notice that I told you you can find a more neutral source cuz the source I provided wasnโt neutral on purpose), it clearly shows that you donโt care about the whole thing.
Also, you were speaking about some chewing gum stuff relating it to Quran which I never heard of form defenders nor even attackers, it clearly showed that you depends on a before-bed-stories-like when you try to verify an evidence.
That said, I still wonโt replace the source I provided you, I quoted verses stating the sequence of human embryo growth, if you have enough knowledge and evidence that it doesnโt work that way then youโre good, I guess.
Oh, absolutely. Your link confirmed my view on the matter. Thanks again! :)
Youโre welcome, I appreciate youโre time ๐ ๐
Just to be sure that I don't misunderstand you, you are saying you believe the first Man was literally made out of actual clay, as described in scripture?
You ignored the theory that explained the possibility of Man creation of clay supported with an example that elemental substance or compounds can be altered to become a totally different substance using chemical reaction, shame of fame? Guess who cares if I believe that or not.
ูููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููู
At the end i have to say that i've never expected this post to go this far, thanks a lot for your time, it started to get more time and energy consuming on my part, i started to crave for a cigarette and a cup of coffee now (quit smoking few months ago) ๐
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Faith is the reason people give when they have no good reason to believe something.
It is not needed, and often harmful.
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would like to learn more about how Faith is harmful historically.
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the reasons that people are unable to live in harmony is not just differentiations when it comes to religious faith, there is also other factors to consider, would people live in harmony is religions are no more? are you telling me that the world has been in conflict just because of religions? now who's being silly?
people will never live in harmony for a variety of reasons and that is a fact.
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Life is not made up of 100% religion (Thank God)
That was so funny. xD
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Of course there are other factors. Who said there wasn't? Life is not made up of 100% religion (Thank God)
Have you changed the subject completely, or are you just slightly off course? You sir, are still being 1000% silly. And every time you reply with something this mind-numbingly stubborn, those percentages go up.
that said, one can undoubtedly affirm that War is impossible to avoid with or without the existence religions, as for me, i'd rather find a religion (if there is any) that regulate War to the most fair and just use rather than blaming religions for war.
Pick a side, and study their wars, in the name of GOD[of the day]...
directly to the point and that what i actually did studying the motives behind religious wars and how negative or positive it affected the course of history and civilization, was it destructive or productive, was it for the sake of bloodsheding, ulterior motives or for a noble cause .
reviewing numbers and results, i came to a conclusion that the less destructive religious war has led to the most productive and beneficial civilzation (if i'm not exaggerating), that was the side i picked to join.
A dodgy prick that changes name depending on where you were born on this planet.
A manly man-God that needs us to hide the faces of all female humans? That one's great. Lucky women.
An invisible force that needs to convert the mind, or cleanse the life of it's naysayers.
These are just 3 quick examples from a /random 100
that sounds like typical stereotyping to me rather than an actual objective criticism.
If you need any of these fucks to live your life - You are just disrespecting the life you have already been given.
i totally respect the fact that words behind the hyphen is representing your own opinion and wouldn't try to change that but about what comes after, following a religion or having faith or not is a choice that everone has to make and you have no right to judge my choice for myself as i don't give myself the right to judge your own choice or thoughts.
BTW, if my life was given to me that means someone or something has given it to me and since the action or the verb "to give" has never been a result of occurrence but rather will (water doesn't give life nor diseases gives death but rather causes either of them), i can safely say that my life was given to my purposely, i hope this wasn't that mind numbing.
Life itself should be all the wonder you need.
exactly, Life should be whatever i believe it to be and happy with.
If Life was a person, she would be very upset with you.
Fantasy is real and that's an interesting way of addressing Life as a She, i assume there was similarities based on logic? or just some sort of fuck ups that one can bring to life sometimes that you were talking about ealier maybe?
I'm not trying to ruin your day here: But the stupidity of blind Faith - I can't help but tear at the scab that it is, and the sheep that still follow. It has caused more damage and divide to mankind's development than anything else.
Quite the contrary, you don't know how much i'm enjoying this, thanks for everything actually.
blind Faith is certainly some sort of not putting our intellect to a proper use, if i was told that i need to follow X religion cause i need or have to because it is what it is and God works in a mysterious way, this definitely would've had the opposite affect on me but the thing is, no body told me anything actually and that whole thing was out of my own desire of knowing the truth, geuss i've to a conclusion that led me to what i believe in today.
i believe my attitude is healthy enough, doesn't help divide anything or anyone, i still accept everyone regardless and that doesn't contradict with what i believe in, i can't speak for the list of religions/faith/thoughts you mentioned earlier.
Those lovely times when scientists and critical thinkers were silenced through torture, or simply executed. Their work burned and discarded as "Blasphemy" (which is just a splendid concept, bursting at the seams with freedom, and legroom for advancement, right).. in order to keep the "peace" of whatever Faith is in proximity.
i can't deny that, it happened, Faith doesn't contradict with science otherwise it's fake one, my belief always incourage me to think, reason and use my own abilities to be creative and more productive.
And all the My God vs Your God bullshittery that ranges from Twitter Beefs to Genocide. I'm fucking fed up with it all.
i hope you're not getting emotional because of this discussion.
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Faith doesn't contradict with science otherwise it's fake one
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It's not just any book, it's the book he believes in. His faith is based on this book. And he believes it to be scientifically accurate (which is probably a little clearer in the discussion I have with him elsewhere in this thread). So there is a direct correlation between his faith and this particular religion, and there is the premise that this book contains scientific knowledge that was not known by Man at the time. He said in our discussion that a book that gets 10 things right and 1 thing wrong is not the word of god, but merely a nice try. So I think with that in mind it is actually pretty relevant whether this book is completely right about everything or not, because it is a direct source for his faith.
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any time, it was a pleasure having such privilege.
sure there wouldn't be any other source that'd give you more satisfaction than this one ๐๐๐
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i started to miss you already, allow me to tease you a bit,
"A little knowledge of science make a man an atheist, but an in depth study of science makes him a believer in God."
- Sir Francis Bacon
let me know what you think of This and whether one can rely on Keith L. Moore's opinion.
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I know what you're thinking, another religious post, no it's not but rather spiriutal and intellectual, rick-rolled? ๐๐
Without a doubt, all kinda thoughts or ideas that comes to our minds has a physical impact on our bodies, even a sad scene in movie would make us cry although we know it's not real or a male would get his tent up fantasizing about some sexual activities (whiskey penis doesn't count), physical impact includes hormonal production depending on how negative or positive the imapct is, think we can make a good use of that?
That said, one could keep up a positive attitude even if things is going wrong but requires training and good control on the flow of ideas or thoughts getting into our minds, it is absouloty time to start developing that ability.
As per my personal experince, having faith in God was one thing which helped me a lot to overcome a life-threatening situations and keep up a positive attitude when nothing else helped to serve that purpose. Faith is not necessarly to be a religious aspect but can vary according to personal use of Faith, some people have faith in thier own abilities to overcome hard times, some others have faith in people no matter how bad thier social experince was and that helped them to move on.
Although i believe that i'm experincing one of the darkest times ever, i know the worst is yet to come therefor developing and learning new ways to keep up a positive attitude is crucial and that is the purpose of this post, to share my own experince and learn from others, i've been told that meditation can also help keep up a positive attitude but hasn't tried it yet.
Now it's your turn to share what helped you keep up a positive attitude and what your thoughts is about general idea of Faith.
Thanks for your time,,,,,,
ููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููููู
Edit:
ismight be needed to keep up a positive attitude?" saddly not editable.Gifted with Cancer - Ali Banat, worth watching.
It looks like the post has been infested with some people who is rather rude and lack of manners who is trying to ruin the moderate atmosphere of the post, a report were made and now I have no option but to wait for support, i will certainly not respond to those in the same fashon for i have manners and i respect SG guidlines, discussion is to be resumed after action is made, thanks
It looks like itโs gonna take some time before that hands of justice arrive therefore I have to warn everybody that there is a dude โor duda or maybe both- who is trying to poison the thread and taking it into some negative direction, letโs stick to the topic of the post please which is the general idea of โFaithโ
Religious discussions was a reply to comments regarding religious faith, if you are not okay with Faith in general nor religions in particular, I advice you to leave the post at once or participate in a decent way, thanks.
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