Well, they won't get far with this kind of behavior :) When You are creating games, every person who want's them is valuable.
Comment has been collapsed.
You say it as if there was something wrong with it?
Oh, so brave, you deleted your post. GG.
Comment has been collapsed.
Might be worth letting this thread finish soon, most of the drama has dissipated.
Comment has been collapsed.
lol someone actually spent time making this:
Comment has been collapsed.
they should add a seal '' approved by Vladimir Putin''
Comment has been collapsed.
I know the guy. He loves twisting the nipples of people who are being obnoxious, but making images even more
Comment has been collapsed.
Asking someone to go f*ck themselves isn't encouraging to be homosexual? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Dev seems confused, but maybe it's just a phase
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm always astounded when I discover bigotry in any form here. I mean I guess I shouldn't be surprised it is the internet after all.
My personal belief is that people should live and let live and not push their beliefs on others regardless of the belief. However some individuals believe that expressing yourself in public is the same as pushing your belief on others.
Gay, straight, Bi, Trans, whatever, someone is going to be offended by Public displays of affection, just so happens people seem to think they are more justified attacking those they disagree with.
I think we should be striving toward people being free to pursue happiness so long as it doesn't infringe on others rights. Someone pursuing happiness that doesn't actually affect you isn't something I believe people should be attacking others for.
Comment has been collapsed.
My personal belief is that people should live and let live and not push their beliefs on others regardless of the belief. However some individuals believe that expressing yourself in public is the same as pushing your belief on others.
Except this isn't about "live and let live" this is literally a company spokesperson saying "Fuck you we don't like your kind and won't give you this free product that everyone else who isn't like you can obtain."
This demonstrates a wider issue whereby people aren't simply not free to pursue happiness but whose very lives are at stake in different parts of the world simply because of who they want to fuck, to put it bluntly.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's exactly that, the problem is they are violating that very belief. I'm not saying they are okay to do this. Don't get me wrong, I'm merely saying I'm baffled that this crap still exists.
They are doing the opposite of living and let living... They are emotionally, and mentally attacking people.... Which of course leads to those being attacked having less happiness.
Comment has been collapsed.
Alright, it was easy to read like a milquetoast "let's all be friends maaaaan" and the people who say "These problems only happen when people bring up the fact that they're gay/black/whatever." I am glad to know I was wrong:)
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, it is true that these things are only problems when people bring up their race/sexual orientation etc. However, it's generally the bigots that go out of their way to bring it up (as was the case for OP) for no other reason than to be dicks (and possibly because they drank a lot of lead paint as a kid). Both sides do have some blame on this since both are putting a lot of emphasis on distinctions that are just made up an meaningless. There is only one race of humans and those are humans, all of the other distinctions are just made up ways to distinguish people; usually as an excuse to persecute them without looking like a hypocrite. The same holds true for all of these other distinctions; they're completely meaningless. Once people on both sides realize that these distinctions don't actually represent any actual objective difference between people the problem will disappear. Admittedly, that's about as likely as waking up to a unicorn giving you all of the winning lottery tickets for the next 1000 years, but someday people may stop being idiots.
PS: I know the kind of people you were actually referring to and they are terrible. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of looking back at this thread and it pissed me off to the point that I had to post something.
Comment has been collapsed.
Where have all the homophobic people gone the last hours? To finish the elementary school? :B
Comment has been collapsed.
Put a \ before the > so it doesn't show up as a quote.
Comment has been collapsed.
I tried to read through the whole thread to avoid bringing up similar thoughts in my reply, most of them were already voiced by others, so I will just leave some random thoughts.
Apart from it being homophobic, it's simply unprofessional and rude. Talking like this to potential customer is enough to cringe at them >.>
I'd probably ask them how giving me key would help cause they don't support :D Not that I would ever bother trying to get this game, it doesn't look like anything I'd enjoy
It's almost funny how spineless and cowardly they are about their views - if they were really so bent on no lgbt supporter getting a key from them, they should totally write that in giveaway description. Who knows how many LGBT supporters got the game before your interaction and following drama, Niv.
Comment has been collapsed.
Comment has been collapsed.
Developer acted like an ass, but people who think that they're entitled to everything are wrong as well.
I am the developer of ASF, and I'm trying to offer my support in my ASF group to anybody who asks for such. But I also have a right to reject that support, based on whatever reason I come up with, or no reason at all, if I feel like I want to. It's my choice and nobody is entitled to get such support only because I offer it for other people.
That company has the same right to refuse their product for whatever reason they want to, and nobody but them have something to say in this regard. HOWEVER, they have absolutely no right to insult anybody, even if they don't agree with particular thing and refuse their service/product only because of that. If they simply stated "sorry, we don't support LGBT and we don't want to give you a key", I'd be totally fine with that, and would be against OP (and the review), if such happened. However, they did a mistake of insulting the party, and that indeed is an asshole move and deserves a punishment.
Sadly, I feel like the person involved in this situation is more salty about not getting the key, rather than getting offended. People think that if somebody offers something for free then they're entitled to that thing, and not getting it because of one reason or another is disrespectful or even "racist", even though it has nothing to do with a race. And no, I'm not defending that company, they shouldn't add that second part to their message, but at the same time I'm not really sure if only one part is at fault here, and I don't want to dig deep inside drama to find out either.
Simple rule to follow, don't act like an asshole towards others, and expect that they won't act like assholes towards you.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sadly, I feel like the guy involved in this situation is more salty about not getting the key, rather than getting offended.
Nothing about Niv's response indicated she (and it's a she, not a guy, by the way) was upset about not getting a key for a terrible game but rather that the developer was blatantly rude and insulting to her.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, I've read it in different tone then, can't do much with it I guess.
And yes, I totally agree on developer being rude and insulting, which he should not do, as stated above.
Thanks for gender correction, I'll edit a post to fit better
Comment has been collapsed.
+1,
with just one note, in PL if you offer your products/service on public offering, you cannot refuse the sale under no circumstances [besides restricted products like tobbaco/spirits/guns etc].
Comment has been collapsed.
Really? Could you please point me to the proper paragraph in KK or other official document that states that? I was sure that any private company can do as they please.
Comment has been collapsed.
pierwszy wynik z gugla, są odnośniki do przepisów i wyroków, aczkolwiek teraz nie jestem pewien co do usług.
As a privte company you are entitled to refuse sell only if your company is selling 'privtely', so based on individual offers, not publicly,
that is kinda law against discrimination, but not many people know that. Same thing - it is not allowed by law to sell anything to unsupervised children under 12 years old, even if it's bread or milk.
Comment has been collapsed.
Fajnie wiedzieć, dzięki wielkie bo o tym przepisie nie wiedziałem. Nadal jednak sądzę, że usług się to nie tyczy, a Steam można traktować (stety albo i niestety) jako usługę - subskrypcję danej gry, a nie produkt jako taki (ale to już do rozstrzygnięcia w sądzie). Warto też pamiętać, że tam jest odmowa bez uzasadnionej przyczyny, równie dobrze właściciel mógłby stwierdzić, że zachowanie klienta było skandaliczne czy wymyślić coś na poczekaniu.
Comment has been collapsed.
usług się raczej nie tyczy, ale tak samo nie można odmówić obsługi 'posprzedażnej', jeśli dystrybuujesz produkt, nawet darmowo, ale oficjalnie [czyli dg, oferta publiczna itp] to oferowane wsparcie zapewniasz wszystkim, nawet osobom które wiedzą lepiej [na jakim poziomie trzeba zapewnić to wsparcie to już inna kwestia :)]. Z uzasadnioną przyczyną jest ciężko, chamom niestety produkt trzeba sprzedać (historie ze spożywczaka w małej miejscowości) jeśli znają swoje prawa, nie jest to podstawą odmowy sprzedaży, ale już wyrostkowi ewidentnie próbującemu kupić alko młodszym kolegom można bezkarnie odmówić, inna sprawa, że taki pomimo gróźb na policję po pomoc nie zadzwoni :) tu już jest uzasadniona przyczyna. Tak samo jest z błędami cenowymi w sklepach stacjonarnych (ale nie rażące różnice), jak znajdziesz produkt z ceną ze starej promocji to sklep musi sprzedać, nawet jeżeli promocja się skończyła. Ich wina, że nie usunęli wszystkich cen, albo jak pracownik pomyli modele i źle przypisze cenę i będzie sprzedawał XO z grami w cenie samej konsoli to musi sprzedać :)
Comment has been collapsed.
You can refuse, because you have a hobby project that you offer freely as an individual. That company also can refuse free keys if it was asked, but not if they state that they offer promo keys without any restrictions. Same as they cannot refuse selling to anyone as long as it is legal, just because they don't like the person. One can be the biggest Nazi homophobe on the planet, they still have to say "yes" with a broad smile if a Jewish transvestite comes and says they want to issue an order, otherwise they can prepare for a media shitstorm PR nightmare. (And if it was an already-paid product, even some consumer rights legal actions.)
Comment has been collapsed.
Without a doubt their action was a direct hit in their PR which reached point zero or even negative one, but refusing free key to somebody for one reason or another is not a crime, as they do not pay for the product but receive it for free. Whether that is proper or not is up to company's decision and their business strategy.
And yes, it would be totally different case if people actually paid for those keys, as in this case legal action should be taken.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, now they learnt that the saying of "any marketing is a good marketing" is so not true…
Although based on that Kotaku article, someone had some sense of business and quickly said they fired the person who wrote that. Even if it is just bullshit, at least there is somebody who knows what "saving face" means…
Comment has been collapsed.
They handled it very wrongly. If they didn't want to give him a key for the rainbow flag, a proper answer would've been. "Sorry we ran out of key" or simply ignoring his request.
They dug themselves up in a hole tho, by both being rude and all the shit they posted on steam afterwards.
Comment has been collapsed.
the game is early access, had several negative reviews, I was not sad for not receive the key, I was surprised by how I was treated, I see people using in the profile, pictures of murderers, serial killers, dictators, and probably if these people were asked a key, they receive. But the reason for my negative, was to respect the love, LOVE, love should not generate war or discussion
Comment has been collapsed.
First of all - you completely misused the word. Homophobia is the fear of homosapiens, aka humans. It's literally impossible for a person to be homophobic, only animals are capable. Plain and simple, the dev(s) don't support homosexuality, it's not a phobia.
Now, the dev is rude as fuck, there's no doubt about that. But why stoop to their level of douchebaggery by posting about it? As I see a few people pointed out, they're not entitled to give anyone a copy of their game. They can pick and choose who gets it, and it needn't be labeled as discrimination. When Kanye West threw a huge ass party for only black people and hired security guards to kick out every white person that came near the door, that wasn't treated as discrimination/racism. But apparently this is discrimination? Why - because his morals are disagreeable in your eyes, while Kanye's weren't?
You didn't get the game, who gives a shit. It has negative reviews, anyways. But you had a friend get ahold of a key just so you can write a negative review - that didn't have anything to do with the game. Again, why are you stooping to his level? It crashed on you, but it's in early access, and that issue happens even with AAA games. But is the game unplayable? Is it poorly made? Does it seem like they put no effort into the game? You need to implement this in your review, or the dev can flag your review. Trust me, the same happened to me, with Blood of Old. I wrote a legit review about how unplayable the game is, described all the issues, and I included how ridiculous it is that the dev openly harassed people who gave him a negative review, and threatened lawsuits on them. Oh, and how the dev is trying to make money by Greenlighting another game, even though the first game is in a completely unfinished state.
Besides all that, it's possible they thrive off of this kind of controversy. Take GTA, for example: if it wasn't so controversial, there would never have been GTA V, or GTA IV for that matter because it would've never become a success. At the time GTA 1 was made, similar titles like POSTAL were already made, so it was technically just some rip-off of a few older games. People will see this thread and your review, and buy the game simply because of the controversy behind the dev. Hell, even if they have no intention of playing it, people will still buy it. So all you're doing is giving them free publicity, people who don't support the devs simply won't buy the game. If they don't buy, they can't review.
Comment has been collapsed.
They're basically asking people to boycott the developer, which the developer should be okay with since they don't want to do business with the LGBT community or their supporters. How would other LGBTs or their supporters know about the developer's beliefs without somebody informing them like OP has?
Comment has been collapsed.
Beliefs shouldn't change one's decision to make a purchase, that only leads to hypocritical behavior. For example: various LGBT communities often shun Christianity (I cannot stress that enough, but I didn't say all or most do, so please don't eat my head off), but then they expect Christians to just kiss their feet and support homosexuality because that's what they believe in. And likewise, there's churches who bash on homosexuality, saying all gays go to Hell, and except them to kneel down and change their ways, because they have a different belief. Personally, I'm a Christian and I think it's just stupid to shun homosexuality. I believe in an all loving God - one who doesn't love gays any less than believers. I believe in freedom of rights. Someone's gay, big deal... at least they're not a murderer.
Point is, it's wrong to shun someone for their beliefs, even if they differ from yours. People should just drop it and let it be. Talking crap doesn't make anything better, that just continues a never ending bogus war on beliefs. Taking the high road is the only way things will get better. The dev doesn't support homosexuality? Kill him with kindness: buy the game (on sale, of course), and write a decent review. Include in the review that the dev refused copies due to being in the LGBT community, but you still decided to buy the game. That would either piss the dev off, or make them reconsider their behavior. Either way, the only winner is the one who takes the high road q:
Comment has been collapsed.
Not sure where you get your information from, but the majority of gays relocate to major cities from the Midwest and South because they were rejected by their families and communities, not the other way around. Religion is very much still present in the LGBT community despite your belief. Research the battles of the LGBT community with the Mormon and Catholic Churches to be able to continue to attend. The Episcopal Church is one of the few churches that welcome the gay community and openly challenges anti-lgbt legislation. Were you aware that the large majority of homeless youth are LGBT-oriented, that were either kicked out by family or ran away for safety?
Why is boycotting wrong? Why should somebody/community support a business that openly rejects them? There are plenty of other game developers that support the LGBT community or at least mind their own business that people can support instead. If you don't like me personally that's one thing, if you don't like me for something I can't change then that's something entirely different and boycotts should be used in those instances.
Comment has been collapsed.
See, this is exactly what I mean. Get off of social media, stop relying on television, and get out of the house every now and again. There's LGBT groups that flood the streets, blocking cars off, and protest religion and those who appose them. Often times, they even get violent. Hell, they've even degraded the American and Confederate flags by turning them into rainbows and saying America should change the flag to rainbow colors for them, and making bullshit claims that the Confederacy was "homophobic," along with the people who still support it.
Pope Francis stepped out and said he's cool with homosexuality. But more so, even said he's down with homosexual marriage and it's not his place to say it's wrong. In case you're unaware, the Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, and is the most inspirational living person to Catholics, and practically every Catholic follows him - some even see him as a saint and would die for him. So I'm not sure where you get your info, but you're far from right. The LGBT community have been mistreated and boycotted, and there's no denying that, but you're full of shit if you're trying to tell me that they're not guilty of doing the same thing. And ever since homosexual marriage has been legalized in all 50 states of America, religion has barely been a concern. The Christians, Catholics, and Mormons stood their ground, even when the LGBT community shoved it down their throats that they won.
Come on, I'm not the one you want to be fighting though. This whole time, I've had a very neutral standpoint on this entire situation. I'm not taking sides with either end of this debate, but you were the one who started off by making claims that your end is completely clean, while the other side is guilty. Truth is, neither side is clean, both are guilty. And until everyone accepts that, this bogus war will go on until the end of time...
Comment has been collapsed.
You're telling a LGBT person what LGBT people do? Considering how embedded I am in four of the major SoCal gay communities, I think I have a better grasp on what we/they do. You are more than welcome to attend any gay-straight alliance club/group and listen to their stories and what they want to do. You can even give them advice on what you feel, as a straight person, is the best way to convince you to change your views/votes. Beyond that, scholar google search will provide you with any evidence you doubt that I provided you.
Comment has been collapsed.
You're telling a Christian what Christians do? You're failing to see both ends of the case. I acknowledged that not all LGBT me members protest against religion, and act violently, but you seem to think I'm saying all are like that. I would never make an such an accusition, because I know that would be a lie. I've even seen LGBT groups that stood up and even admit that many of those claims do happen, but not as often as people would have you believe, and even taking a step further by saying not all religious people act like that.
I'm doubting your "evidence" simply because it's not all true. You're saying Catholic churches shun homosexuality, when that's a lie. Here's one instance where Pope Francis said he's okay with homosexuality. As the head of Catholicism, Catholics respect his words. And what about them degrading the American and Confederate flags? Plus tons of articles about their acts of violence on religious people. If you believe in something, then by all means, continue believing and don't let others belief system shape yours. But likewise, don't make claims and attack one of the world's largest religions because of the acts of a few bad apples. Do you believe all Muslims are terrorists because of 9/11? Do you believe all Buddhists are out to get you, because China forbids the practice of any other religion, punishable by death? Like I said, neither party is perfect, and both need to accept this fact.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's not a reputable news source and there was no desecration of either flag. The Confederate flag was taken down by Bree Newsome in the picture, which was photographed right after the black church shooting. There is no attempt in the gay community to change the American flag and even if there was, so what?
The Pope can't force churches to comply with his rulings and that ruling doesn't change historical facts. I wasn't even attacking religion, I was countering your statement that gays are, when it's the opposite. I never claimed all religious followers are anti-LGBT, and even if they are I don't care. The only thing I was pointing out is gays are shunned away, and those that were once religious tend to stay religious. Gays protest for getting equal rights, and churches are usually the ones fighting those rights, so obviously there will be clashes, but it's not to eradicate religion.
The fact you brought up all those nonsense accusations demonstrates you're not as neutral as you believe.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh, it's not reputable? Why's that, because it wasn't written in LGBT Today, or Fox News? Your news sources are ace, while every other source is phony? Funny thing is, I haven't seen you use a single source, yet you're claiming my sources aren't real. And sure, the KKK use the Confederate Flag, but so does the Dukes of Hazard, and people in the south. The situation you mentioned happened in the south, she took the flag down from those poor people's hometown, when they weren't even responsible for what happened. And you're gonna deny the attempt to change the American flag to a Gay Pride flag, even though there's literally a million sources on Google and several petitions for it? What next, are you gonna deny Hitler's existence? I bet you're the same person who bitches about "In God we trust" being on money, and "one nation under God" in the Pledge, yet you shrug off the desecration of the flag like it's nothing. Ridiculous, simply ridiculous.
And no, the Pope can't force them to change, but no real Catholic church would go against the Pope. I'm not gonna lie, I'm starting to feel like I'm talking to a fucking wall right now. Falsely accusing me of saying all gays are against religion? Check my first reply to you, I straight up said that NOT all gays do that. I went a step further and admitted that there are church groups who completely mistreat homosexuals, because there's no denying that, and I agree that it's not right. At least unlike you, I'm willing to fess up to the misdoings of my people.
But since you apparently don't know how to read, I'm just gonna leave this conversation alone. You wanna stare at your screen and falsely accuse people of making bogus statements, be my guest. But I'm gonna get back to my life - ya know, the thing that most people have.
By the way, to the 7 sissies who blacklisted me: that's extremely ironic, that you would exclusively exclude me from entering your giveaways, when you're throwing a hissy fit about a dev excluding you from his. My point has been proven about the hypocritical behavior, when I'm not even going against your beliefs... unless you're all some of the few Christians who protest homosexuality, and think you're doing the right thing. My only wish is that you would man (or woman) up and comment that you blacklisted me, so I can blacklist you back. Not like I want to enter your giveaways. I think blacklisting is childish, but if you wanna exclude me from your giveaways, fine by me, but it's a pussy move when you can still enter mine :D
Comment has been collapsed.
Being neutral only makes you an enemy of both sides, unfortunetly.
Comment has been collapsed.
Not in all cases, but yeah, probably in this one. I simply can't always agree with the members of my own team, because frankly, they're not always right o:
Comment has been collapsed.
In most cases you'll be an enemy to both sides :S we're screwed as a species to side with extremes, rather than be objective
Comment has been collapsed.
So if someone shuns me, for whatever reason, then I am supposed to treat them with kindness? No, absolutely not. I will push back. Things don't get better by sitting idly by and hoping people change their minds. If you think that's how the world works then you need a history lesson.
Comment has been collapsed.
Now, the dev is rude as fuck, there's no doubt about that. But why stoop to their level of douchebaggery by posting about it? As I see a few people pointed out, they're not entitled to give anyone a copy of their game. They can pick and choose who gets it, and it needn't be labeled as discrimination. When Kanye West threw a huge ass party for only black people and hired security guards to kick out every white person that came near the door, that wasn't treated as discrimination/racism. But apparently this is discrimination? Why - because his morals are disagreeable in your eyes, while Kanye's weren't?
The situation you outline is different (though I still would not say it was a particularly good move from Kanye, as while it in itself is not racism, it might be indicative of racism). If Kanye said "Everyone is welcome to my party" and then would throw out white people when they try to get in, that would be more akin to what the dev did. Over here that does count as discrimination, and would be illegal.
Homophobia is the fear of homosapiens, aka humans.
This is flat out incorrect. Let's look at the dictionary definition of homophobe:
a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.
a person who hates or is afraid of homosexuals or treats them badly
Comment has been collapsed.
Argh, now I delete my post instead of editing it like the nice person suggested ._. In case you read this, thank you ^^
I'll repost my text, this ie without accidental quotes ^^"
I can't even begin to describe how awful that is!
Seriously, these guys are the worst! It's one thing not to actively support equal rights, but it's something completely different to insult someone just because he might support or belong to a group you do not actually like.
But I never understood how people could be so hateful. Love is something so pure and precious! Gender doesn't matter and- argh u.u no, I would just start insulting people if I write anything more now...
Later, I'll return, read more of the comments and maybe I'll be able to post something that doesn't include some really nasty wishes for these developers.
And I'll add some more, because I originally planned to do so:
Like I said, love is precious and no one should insult anyone based on his or her decision to love someone.
Sure, we all do have prejudices sometimes, we all might encounter a situation where we are confronted with someone whose decisions we don't like. But does this give me the right to insult them? I dislike racists. What does it say about ME when I suspect someone to be a racist and start insulting him because of my assumption?
Same goes for these devs. They assume and then they insult. That's the same as randomly approaching people on the street just to say something nasty to them. And to be honest? Those homophobes really remind me of racists and others with quite stupid prejudices. Usually these people do not have a reason for disliking someone other that some really twisted believes that lack any kind of logic. And the sad thing is, you can't even try to have a normal discussion with them because they are so overwhelmed with hate that no argument will ever reach them.
Comment has been collapsed.
I was wondering why you deleted your post, rofl. I though, maybe I was rude telling him to edit? D:
Always glad to help, tho. :3
Comment has been collapsed.
No ^^ I just didn't pay enough attention x.x
And it was very nice of you to point out my mistake so I could correct it. It looked really weird with the unintentional quote ._.
Comment has been collapsed.
"I didn't get a free game, let's fuck up these guys".
Well done OP. Please don't mix politics with this. Damn, too late, already hundreds of posts.
You made a shitstorm because you didn't get something you were not entitled to. This kind of victim card-playing is why people become anti-LGBT.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thanks for making the world a little bit more of a shitty place to live in for me.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm sorry :( I'm trying to be neutral, but that involves calling out the bullshit on both sides.
Comment has been collapsed.
Allthough you have a nice name...
You don't sound very neutral and you certainly don't call out bullshit from both sides....
And no, a post like this won't make people "anti-LGBT" because these days most people in civilised countries don't give a shit about about these kind of labels anymore.
Besides, it was just a copy paste, not a victem card.
Comment has been collapsed.
Of course I don't sound neutral. It's impossible to spread criticism and praise equally when addressing a single post from one of the sides. Now, if you take a slice of my posts... then you'll see.
And you underestimate the stupidity in people. Smallest piece of crap can set someone off.
PS: Labels exist for a reason - they are useful
PS2: Copy-pasting doesn't mean it's not a victim card
PS3: Nice name
Comment has been collapsed.
People seem to forget that if the devs can use the I don't support LGTB excuse, it's open to others: I don't want a woman to play this game, I don't want a Black to play the game, I don't want a Christian to play the game, and insert all skin colors, religions and every other excuse.
Imagine that you buy the game, you're playing and your access get revoked because you're not belonging to their checkboxes.
Jeez, I understand that you want to choose your clients. However, if you're basing it on personal beliefs, at one moment, you have to be fully prepared to answer that and not say to go f* yourself, to post comment like "we're real humans". Or else, you'll appear as really full of yourself, narrow-minded and not open at all to any criticism.
They don't want to support LGTB? Ok, it's their right. They don't want to give the key? Ok. They don't want to give a key to a LGTB or a supporter? There is already a problem there. And insulting people because they're not thinking like them? Thanks to OP's post, it has revealed a larger problem.
Anyway, I wasn't interested in the game, now, even less.
Comment has been collapsed.
Publishers/developers need to be more professional. We live in a ''protected/sheltered'' society which is easily hurt and suddenly everything anyone says has become offensive. To what extent though? Can't people be allowed to express different opinions? (if it was physical attacks/violence it's a different story<-those should be stopped immediately).
Sure the developer is in the wrong for casting you out but as you can see your argument for this has almost 1000 replies (it's also on blogs/websites etc) already which shows that society is more inclined on hearing you out instead of hearing out the developer. Anyway congrats both the editor and the managing director for the game got fired-yes they had it coming, tbh I wouldn't mind they expressed their opinion but they should have given you a key.-just like they gave everyone else.
I am against any form of censorship. I believe name calling should be allowed in society on all sides. Yes hetero people get hate speech all the time but nobody cares-think about that for a second-double standard much? suddenly anyone who doesn't agree with liberal/SJWs/LGBT/etc's opinion they are labelled as a bigot/racist etc. Liberalism today is the biggest form of discrimination, censorship, socialist and general mental illness on this planet.
Comment has been collapsed.
This isn't censorship. This is capitalism.
If I run a company, I want to sell my product to as many people as is possible. If one of my employees, speaking on my company's behalf, makes a statement that angers and alienates a significant number of my potential customers, that costs me sales. Of course I will sack that person, just as I would anyone else whose easily avoidable actions hurt my business.
Freedom of speech allows people to say what they wish without fear of criminal prosecution but it does not otherwise shield them from the consequences of what has been said.
Comment has been collapsed.
(sorry for the TL;DR. I'll understand if you don't want to respond. I suck at editing my posts, haha)
People can absolutely express dissent and opinions, but they have to be ready to discuss those values should they cause offense. In this case, there wasn't even an attempt to resolve the conflict in belief with a respectful or neutral tone, just a 'fuck you'.
While I dislike prejudice as a whole, I appreciate that some values are sadly ingrained into people. People can hold whatever opinions they want to inside their own heads (yes, even backwards or prejudiced ones) BUT the moment you speak them out loud, or the moment you act on those values and are found to be inequal in your dealings, you need to be prepared to be held accountable. If people are unable to temper their gut instincts or unconscious values with maturity and even-handedness, they can't expect people to just brush it off every time.
"I am against any form of censorship"
See attached image.
"Yes hetero people get hate speech all the time but nobody cares"
Plenty of people care, but sadly it seems the majority of people choose to manifest that passion in destructive ways. Rather than stand up for themselves and tell their side of the story, people find it much easier to convert that into counter-prejudice. Yes, this totally applies to all hate speech and the revulsion it generates. There are tons of LGBT and similar groups that indulge in destructive or hateful behaviour as a result of how they were treated too. It forms an ongoing cycle. All people, no matter what colour or creed or genitalia or preference or ANYTHING, they all deserve equality in treatment from the government, and protections against certain forms of disfavorable treatment. An even foundation across the board. People simply find it easier to attack other groups and form lasting anger rather than tackle it like adults, and that's depressing as fuck.
"suddenly anyone who doesn't agree with liberal/SJWs/LGBT/etc's opinion they are labelled as a bigot/racist etc. Liberalism today is the biggest form of discrimination, censorship, socialist and general mental illness on this planet."
You do understand that by painting in such expansively broad strokes, you are behaving much like the demons you see in others, right? I can understand the misgivings towards SJWs, as they are a form of activism that has a well-documented history of ill behaviour (so much so that they sometimes actually damage the reputation of other causes they claim to champion through mere association), but liberals are political group and LGBT are an entire slice of citizens. You may as well say that redheads and people who like vanilla icecream are awful for how far-reaching that goes, heh.
Some generalisations simply don't hold up. Yes there are always trends, but some groups are simply too large to get a singular accurate bead on. Political groups especially have their moderates and their extremes, as I'm sure you're aware not every right-leaning person or Texan has open misgivings about black people, and not every libertarian has a boner for anarchy, and not every gamer unironically screams "get cancer-AIDS and rape-die!" whenever they lose a PVP match. :P
Hell, I might even be subject to a generalisation myself, but it's why I accept that "SJW"s are a force of great toxicity and thinly veiled prejudice, but am far more loathe to say the same about just the Social Justice movement on it's own. I certainly feel that they're misguided and potentially destructive, but the term 'SJW' specifically refers to the publicly combative extremists. Do you see what I'm getting at here?
This is why I refuse to buy into the whole feminism or MRA thing, even if I think both genders still suffer their own oversights and considerations even in modern western culture. Both are far too loaded with undercurrents of aggression, no matter how desperately the rational and mature people try to temper it. The entire thing has turned into a 'Gender War' that uses social media, half-truths and unsubtle slander as a front line. The whole "you're either with us or you're against us" mentality is disgusting to me, because mens rights and womens rights are not naturally opposed, we can have both, if only people sobered up and realised that the benefit of one is not the detriment of the other.
Sorry for the rant-like tangent. I appreciate I probably came off as a self-centered holier-than-thou asshole, and I know you mean well, but I just feel we need to disarm this minefield, not sow it with fresh explosives pointed in new directions, y'know? Getting angry is the first step, a natural step that comes from being wronged or seeing other people being wronged. What we do with that anger is the important part.
Comment has been collapsed.
-There are many things that are contradictory with SJWs. They can't please everyone.
-And yes there are good and bad people in every group.
-You are right and I appreciate your long answer. Check out the Angry Birds movie, it has a lot of subliminal stuff. It's OK to be angry :p
Comment has been collapsed.
Wow these guys took a lesson from Digital Homicides playbook.
Comment has been collapsed.
About LGBT incident
Dream Games @ 01:20PM on June 02, 2016
As we have mentioned in the Operation Caucasus facebook page, we feel very sad about the situation we have been in the last few days.
The truth is we have never supported and will not support LGBT and we feel bad for those people even if they feel happy about themselves. But the actions of our ex-coworkers are unacceptable. We are game developers and we don't make games for certain society, we make it for everyone. Regardless of there personality everyone has the right to buy and play our game.
We are a new team and this is our very first product. We wouldn't have wanted to be in such a situation from the start. But we can't change what is done. We wanted to let you know our opinion about LGBT and current situation. We hope and will try not to get into anymore scandals.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/442180/announcements/detail/932622787939644428
Comment has been collapsed.
They say 'ex-coworkers' but still openly say they don't support LGBT. Not only that, but they 'feel bad' for them even if they're happy with their lives. It's like they just can't wait to dig themselves deeper into that hole. I get language differences, I really do, but they couldn't be any more transparent if they tried. A bit like those positive reviews on their game from fresh accounts with no other games and broken english claiming "Very good, often updates, thank you!".
I mean, not that any normal company couldn't wouldn't fire you for randomly saying "fuck you" to a potential customer / reviewer over nothing, but still...
Comment has been collapsed.
Orthodox societies morals is crazy sheet indeed! They are just psychologically handicapped.
Comment has been collapsed.
Heeyyyy, my country is an Orthodox country too, but we are not psychologically handicapped. xD
Comment has been collapsed.
but still openly say they don't support LGBT.
Well... what are they supposed to say if they don't?
But if they are indeed lying about firing people in an attempt to somehow save their faces, then that's quite pathetic.
Comment has been collapsed.
They could try not touching the subject, given that their selling games has nothing to do with the issue.
Even if they don't support LGBT stuff, confirming that they as an entire company stand behind that sentiment expressed by the person they fired? That only cements the damage done by that one exchange, and it sours any possible way they could smooth things over.
Trying to have a heartfelt and honest discussion on the issue (no matter how backwards their values are) would be a good step to at least brokering some form of empathy, but sadly they can't grasp what went wrong, and even in an ideal world where they would be willing to open dialog beyond "you are raised wrong, this is an american thing, and if you support this part of equality you're abnormal", there would still be a crippling language barrier that would shoot it down before it could even start.
Comment has been collapsed.
Hey OP, you should maybe update the thread: they released an official statement on Steam and on FB:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/442180/discussions/0/364042703867077368/?ctp=2
https://www.facebook.com/operationcaucasus/?fref=nf
Comment has been collapsed.
Interesting update. Well, they did the right thing in firing the managing editor, but then shot themselves in the foot again by the comments they make on their steam discussion.
"As we have mentioned in the Operation Caucasus facebook page, we feel very sad about the situation we have been in the last few days.
The truth is we have never supported and will not support LGBT and we feel bad for those people even if they feel happy about themselves. But the actions of our ex-coworkers are unacceptable. We are game developers and we don't make games for certain society, we make it for everyone. Regardless of there personality everyone has the right to buy and play our game.
We are a new team and this is our very first product. We wouldn't have wanted to be in such a situation from the start. But we can't change what is done. We wanted to let you know our opinion about LGBT and current situation. We hope and will try not to get into anymore scandals."
As one user put it on Facebook, "As an educator, I appreciate the publicity that you guys are getting, it gives me a lot of lecture material to show my students what not to do with your gamedev public relations." I think this can be taken as a GREAT learning opportunity for any future game developers of what not to do.
EDIT: Also, congrats on level 9 my friend! :D
Comment has been collapsed.
Thanks.
Yes, I agree with that post.
However, I like the fact that they recognize that everyone has a right to play their game. I don't know if they felt forced to do it or not though. But that's another story.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thank you for a very nice giveaway BigBadGoat! ^^
Just wat this thread needs! :D
Comment has been collapsed.
Great game, and some good humour to lighten the subject. I already own it but that's a good choice, whoever gets it will be lucky!
Comment has been collapsed.
sure, as soon as I take a break from the drama, I miss something nice :'(
Comment has been collapsed.
Being homophobic isn't good but that may be hard to change.. but bringing it over/into your business life.. lol that ruin your career.
Comment has been collapsed.
I believe that's all in how you conduct yourself, only. Slander/libel, threats, violence, murder etc against anyone are wrong; if you speak the truth in love it's not homophobia. I have friends who consider themselves in the LGBT group and they're very kind people. Problem is, people are just giving into their anger against LGBT people (thus where the bad name homophobics come from; the bad apple spoiling the bunch) and not being patient enough to show LGBT people they actually care, and want to help them change their lifestyles, which through studies has been found to cause serious physical health issues, and people in this group tend not to live past their 50s, even in places like The Netherlands that are most welcoming to people with these sorts of lifestyles.
Comment has been collapsed.
Hi everyone, I always participate in sweepstakes of games that the own developers offers, as many of you.
This week the publishing Dream Games distributes keys to the game Operation Caucasus pre-released on May 23 this year.
The scheme was to go to their facebook page and ask for a key, that's what I did ...
The answer was negative, because I use the colors of the rainbow on my profile picture and they said they did not support LGBT and "kindly" asked me to go f*ck myself. Then they blocked me, preventing me from posting the print on their facebook page.
Follows the print: http://imgur.com/tru0YgE
Anyone who wants to help, can mark as a useful analysis to stay on top.
Link the publishing page on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?developer=Dream%20Games
Link of the game on Steam: http://store.steampowered.com/app/442180
I had already warned that in the post on the given keys https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/JMwgGKR but with a own topic, the message reaches more people
Comment has been collapsed.