When I think about what EPIC is doing I honestly believe, that there are really no marketing planning going there at all.
Whoever have the word on what goes there normally would sink any company but yeah "Fortnite" money is mainly what covering that person's ass.
Arm twisting tactics through their exclusives accompanied by insane giveaways and discounts.. not just they are not making any profits they must be losing lots of money.
Question is how long can "Fortnite" cover their asses.
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Question is how long can "Fortnite" cover their asses.
When there's a dude making $500k a month just for playing that crap, probably it will last them for a while...
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It's not just Fortnite money. They are almost half owned by Tencent...who had $50 billion+ in revenue last year alone. Combine that with the $1.8 billion of Fortnite...
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Both those points (TenCent and UE) just add to my curiosity what is the true goal behind creating the store ?
Between the 12%, the 10$ coupon and the free games they are definitely losing money on it .. and on the long run really not seeing it making a profit that can compare to "Fortnite", TenCent and UE
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They are definitely trying to increase their market share. And they are very successful in doing that, and over time they will probably stop having such good offers.
I'm just scared about Tencent, but luckily they only have 40% share of Epic..
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They want to destroy competition and become a monopoly.
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how? how is your argument valid when steam has/had the monopoly for the last 20 years?
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Monopoly is when you force a game to be sold in one store, which is what Epic doing by selling some games on their store exclusively unlike steam which lets you sell your game on any platform you want.
The games on steam can be found on uplay, origin, gog, ith.io, bethesda launcher, battlenet, R* launcher, and even Epic store itself. So how is that a monopoly !!??
On steam, it's up to the devs where they want to but their games. On Epic it's on their store and their store alone, so which of them is the monopoly??
Steam was never a monopoly, it didn't and still doesn't force games on its platform. It just does the platform better than anyone else, we should blame other platforms laziness for steams success
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bullshit but you are young enough to educate yourself on whats it need to be to be a monopoly
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Do you know what's really funny?? You calling what I said "bullshit" without providing anything to counteract or prove your point.
A very quick google search would prove what I said is 100% right :)
And if you're going to say "when you are the ONLY ONE" like you mentioned in another comment, here again.
"The games on steam can be found on uplay, origin, gog, ith.io, bethesda launcher, battlenet, R* launcher, and even Epic store itself. So how is that a monopoly !!??"
I'm sure you already know that and already know that my comment is right since you're "old enough" to understand, but the power of free games can't make you admit that.
And since I don't have the power or the money to provide you with free games so I can have a fair conversation without you being biased, I will simply walk away from this one, my point has already been proven.
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Steam wasn't and isn't a monopoly. They didn't monopolize the market. All developers are free to release their games on any other launcher or console. Monopoly is when you control everything and don't let neither customers or developers to choose and you can't buy something you want in more than one place.
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tss are you serious, there was just Steam for the least 15 years at least. you obviously dont know what you are talking about.
monopoly is also when you are the ONLY ONE. you dont need to force anyting....
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It's a best marketing strategy for best launcher for free games
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I might took it wrong way, but was the Thrones of Britannia the best sold Total War of all times? I dont think so, and if i understand it correctly, this will be again just snippet of previous games packed into expansion pack sized game. So not exactly the best seller on market. I might be wrong, but i dont think this game is expected to be more profitable than if Epic just made a deal with Sega to give them assured sum of money, instead of betting on sales numbers. So there is huge marketing value for Epic by having exclusive, AA, free on release game, generating a lot of hype jut by the gesture alone and probably with very little, or without any loss on Segas side, so win win. sry for my english
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hmm, i could be wrong, but this "free" period of TW:Troy is nothing else then a "free weekend" thing on steam.
You can test the new TW Game for 24h and then you have to pay for it.
It won't stay free forever in your library.
And as for "free weekends" or stuff like that part, i don't think thats a "game changer" or anything like that.
Its just something like a demo and done before (even if it took time with other games and they had not a "demo day" on day one).
So, nothing new here.
At least for me.
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Well, could be, although in that case the Epic store will be overrun and most likely not reachable for the time beeing.
Perhaps it will also be that there will only be a certain amount of keys/copies which can be claimed like that and if they run
out then it needs to be bought even if it is still in the first 24h.
Also we should consider even IF it is like that and everyone who wants to get the game for free gets the game,
we don't know how "complete" the game will be.
Will there be 15-25 Dlcs you need to have a good game?
Will there be another "live services"-approach which means that you need to purchase constantly to be able to play the game.
I think its way to early to know what will happen and how this whole approach works out.
Lets see what happens in August and how the whole thing turns out afterwards.
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These are some very unfunded speculations. You almost seem desperate in finding reasons why this would be a disappointment, because it isn't only a "free weekend", as you assumed first.
Have you ever seen them running out of copies for a free game? No.
And if their store should be overrun for the complete 24h, they'll simply add another day. Why? Because they are looking for positive PR and not doing so would be the opposite.
We also do know how "complete" the game is, because so much has already been revealed about it.Not to mention that their "Saga" spin-offs are usually smaller, with fewer DLC.
Btw., the TW games are good without the additional tribes or nations. These add more variety and that's it.
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It can't be. CA will make us pay for every in-game turn, for every unit with non-game money. This can't be that the game will be free and exclusive, and GOOD on a platform that already bought exclusivity for some other games and given some good games for free. This can't... Gaben won't let them to do this. Epic Games is lying, Creative Assembly is lying, Total War: TROY is a lie. Don't you feel it? I feel they are reading this... I think they are looking for... I.. ca-n.. ex..p...
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"Free to claim" says its EGS page
https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/a-total-war-saga-troy/home
So that is free to keep, not just a free weekend
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One of the problems Epic faced when launching their store was steam's customer loyalty to their personal Libraries, which for many of us are well into the hundreds of games, if not thousands. Epic have attempted to reproduce that by giving us a large volume of games in our Epic library so we become attached to it, and would then be more likely to purchase through their store.
I'm not sure it's working though, as personally, I have some 40-50 Epic games but exactly 0 minutes playtime and $0 on purchases. I dislike the exclusivity deals and think they should have tried to compete on the open market with better prices. but that's only my personal opinion.
I think it's a safe bet, profits from Fortnite are boosting the store at the moment, It'll be interesting to see how long they keep giving games away. After GTA V, borderlands & CIV VI, I felt like it was coming to an end, like it was the Finale, but then they dropped a repeat giveaway in Overcooked, which is not quite the AAA game the other 3 were. They have to run out of money at some point, right?
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same, i have tons of games there already, but i never spent a dime on their store. Neither do I plan to. And it's not even just about customer loyalty, it's the fact that they're not addressing the other huge problem that keeps people away from Epic; Their launcher is sh*t! It's just so, so bad especially in comparison to steam. It's slow, hard to manage/not manageable at all, wonky, and last but not least UGLY. I'll keep getting the free deals in case I some day I want to play them, but spending my money there? Eh, not anytime soon.
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But they have better prices. RDR2 Ultimate Edition is $90 on steam.. Last time i checked on Epic store it was $43 with their free $10 coupon. That's more than half the price on steam..
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By that logic then they have worse prices. In my region RDR2 Ultimate is around $83 dollars in steam and on the Epic store it's $93 dollars.
You can't look at just one game in one specific region and then claim it has better prices by default.
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I did not know that. I thought the prices are the same everywhere. Well anyway, in my region pretty much everything is cheaper than on Steam
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but exactly 0 minutes playtime
Not even one game suits you? Even if I don't like Epic, I still play their WWZ and Civilization 6.
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I probably will eventually but I have hitman2 & rocket league on steam to keep me busy.. Plus the 400 unplayed games.
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The people that are complainging about epic are not the maintarget.
Listen to the people today why they don't want to use gog, epic, uplay, origin and co. "I have all my games on steam".
With this many free games the "next generation" will have "all the games on epic".
It's a long term investment and I'm sure it will work in long term.
The kids that startet fortnite with 12-13 are becoming 16 now and in two years they are already 18... A lot of these kids never instaled steam. And they are becoming customers... What you think, where will they buy cyberpunk or any other new game.
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I have a similar thinking. My cousin for example, a teen without credit card or other ways to buy games now, but a Fortnite player who have the brand "Epic" on top, and actually barely know Steam. He will became a young-adult eventually, as many others, the "next generation" of customers.
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Do you think these children will remain stupid even when becoming adults?
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^ This. They are looking at the bigger picture and decided it's worth the gamble.
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Wow, your way of thinking really blow my mind, Super cool
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A long term strategy aiming at players who will have "all their games on Epic" within 3 or 4 years may be sustainable if you make your own games but not if you are throwing money at big studios for exclusive deals.
Besides a lot can happen in even 2 years. New stores with new deals, better technology, new gameplay systems like Geforce Now, Google-sized players getting in the game, etc
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In the "long term" the bigger publishers will release on steam and epic without throwing money (it's already happening with uplay, cyberpunk and the last star wars game). When they will have enough customers they don't need the exclusives anymore.
And yes: it's risky. But that is every investment. Only future can tell.
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MachinesAreHuman is absolutely right.
Its a superb strategy aiming to the long term.
And EPIC is not only making money on Fortnie.
They are also earning so much money on their engine too.
And the sales that now are slowly growing on the EPIC Store will increase more and more over time.
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Finally someone who gets it.
Steam is a multi billion dollar company and growing. They dominate the market. Becoming a viable competitor would be worth billions.
Origin and Uplay failed to compete, mainly only surviving due to exclusives. Epic is taking a long-term gamble, willing to invest hundreds of millions in the hopes of capturing billions.
The free games and steep discounts serve to build a large library and a familiarity with the store. They're less focused on features because they’re not competing for steam’s current users, They’re trying to capture future consumers before they even become a viable demographic.
I’m locked into steam, but someone without my library can easily build a big one in Epic and get locked in there.
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I think I just convinced myself to open an EGS account
Now I regret missing out on the prior freebies
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I'd actually never thought of this, but you're absolutely right. It just the same with publishers and abusive monetization; all they have to do is wait out the rest of us, and it will become the norm. Valve did the same thing with Steam, and all you need is that hot property, and Fortnite is exactly that right now.
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Idk why we need 5000 different launchers, all doing the same.
Trying to get users by giving is pretty cheap move. How about get them by originaliny, functions, idk... Epic is for me launcher to launch free games i got. I played ONCE here WWZ 2 rounds with friend. Its all ever, we simply dont need other launcher.
Also "games only on epic launcher" NO BUY i hate it asf and will NOT support them.
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Unfortunately multiple launchers are for your own benefit. Steam is very close to monopoly, and if a company is in that position there is no incentive for it to innovate or compete with better deals.
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The thing is, whatever money goes on in the gaming industry is nothing but a snippet compared to China's money (Tencent owns 40% of Epic). So yeah, for them, all these deals are nothing but coffee money.
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I am not a fan of their exclusivity deals so I don't really support them. I think that the free games strategy is not bad, probably really expensive though, but could prove worth while in the long run. As some have mentioned, the target audience is building up a library on EPIC and it might become their natural place to get their games.
Personally I have claimed a few games when it all started, before EPIC went rogue with all those exclusives, since then I have claimed just WWZ because my friends were gonna play it and I did not want to be left out.
What I would like to see is EPIC actually finishing their store/launcher (actually what I really wish for would be for them to have it finished before going wild with exclusives and free games, that would silence half the haters), then I might even consider spending some money over there since some of the deals do seem pretty sweet.
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They could have made a good launcher, website and API etc first.
And then throw hundred of millions into marketing.
I'm no expert, but I personally feel like that would have worked better.
Right now it looks like they aren't actually planning to ever improve the launcher (yes I know a roadmap exists, but how come they haven't made any progress in all that time, despite their crapload of budget?).
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Even with Fortnite earning them less than it used to in 2018, their coffers are full enough to keep doing this for quite a while.
There are plenty of sites covering the business aspects at Epic, this one covers Fortnite pretty well.
You can also check games industry blogs such as Gamasutra, market researchers like Superdata etc.
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Thanks for the link. That kind of stuff is what I'm mostrly looking after.
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You are welcome. If you are curious about Epic's data, they released some store related material at the beginning of the year.
https://www.epicgames.com/store/en-US/news/epic-games-store-weekly-free-games-in-2020
My favorite part are coupons representing a value $23 million they refunded. I'd bet that this will become an even bigger cost factor (and store benefit) the more games they get onto their store.
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This marketing strategy is to get as many people to the site as much as possible, then to its launcher, then if you notice when you scroll down to the "free games" page it will showcase you their games, you may or may not care but that's the point of it. You'll most likely get their promotional emails as well when you register on their launcher. I doubt that Epic will continue doing this for much longer, as they have received quite a 'publicity' and 'exposure' from this already.
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If you go back to January 2018, there was a good article on Fortress of Doors titled "So You Want to Compete With Steam" that pretty much described exactly what Epic would have to do to be a contender including "straight up bribe players to use your system". Mountains of Fortnite money made that a possibility. These two links are worth the read if you're trying to understand Epic's strategy.
https://www.fortressofdoors.com/so-you-want-to-compete-with-steam/
https://www.fortressofdoors.com/so-you-want-to-compete-with-steam-2/
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Which are you more likely to enter? An electronics store that just opened, or an electronic store that just opened and is giving a free television to every person who comes in? I mean hell, is there anyone here who wouldn't go in? I would.
EGS has the money for all the freebies, and they've persuaded you (and me) to come in and use their client. Or, at the very least, check it out. I'm a big fan of Steam, and still play a few games on EGS. I'm in the door now. Now they can show me (and maybe you) everything else they have.
We might think it's a "cheap tactic", and perhaps it is, but it's been known to work. Perhaps if Steam had used the same tactic (and would we be questioning it as much if they did?) EGS would send me a pizza every night to go with those free games. :3
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But is it really working ? I did download Epic launcher when they gave AC Syndicate and I'm intending to download GTA V soon.. that being said are many starting to actually spend money in EGS instead of Steam ?
I'm sure EPIC bragging they have millions of accounts these days downloading games from their launcher, but it is probably just a sliver of those accounts that actually spent any money.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but despite not approving of the "exclusives", and having my own opinions of their barebones launcher, I've spent money on a few games on EGS.
But, as someone else mentions in another comment - they had a buttload of potential buyers before we ever rolled in to collect the monthly freebies. If you're a devout DOTA player, you're quite likely to buy your games from Steam, right? Well ... wouldn't the same go for all of those Fortnite players? After all, they already have EGS installed.
Edit: This comment
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For my part I started using Epic launcher when they started to give free good games. I'm not happy with the client, it's a total mess, it lacks many, many functionnalities I like in Steam. I bought some games from them, not because I wanted to support Epic, but because the games I wanted were cheaper there. I always look ITAD before buying any game, and in the end I don't care about the launcher: I care about the price.
With one or maybe two exceptions I'm not even sure of, everything I bought was promoted by the 10$ coupon for any game pricing more than 14,99, during this year sale or last one. So I probably didn't make them earn much, if anything. My personal experience is not enough to proove your point, but it goes in your direction ;-)
Steam is not a white angel, their support is a dice roll for example. What convinced me to stop being Steam-targeted like I was is when they cancelled my Steam controller order, without offering any form of compensation (which is totally illegal In France). Now I've a game launchers shortcuts list with Steam, Gog, Epic, Uplay, Origin, Battle.net, and in the end, I just don't care about the launcher anymore, at all. In fact, I'm dreaming of some open source and ad-free universal launcher, which could list and launch all my games. My two cents :-)
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Pretty sure the 10$ coupon: they pay in your stead to the games publishers, so just like the free games it is a "calculated" loss as part of promoting EGS
But as said many times the insane amount of "fortnite" money will cover them for a long time.
Makes me wonder what is their real goal behind EGS, cause comparing to the amount of money "fortnite" make for them I don't see that store ever making a comparable profit if at all .. even the point stated early about "fortnite" younger audience; frankly once they get out of "fortnite" bubble soon after they will also see beyond EGS
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Once their mood will want them to play other than "fortnite" they will look for other games
New generation are more drawn into watching streamers or youtube and that will expose them to lots of games many of them could very much happen not to be on EGS, or even the vid creator/streamer themselves mention other stores (from what I have seen "somehow" the streamers that talk too much are more appealing to them)
Hell it will even take a simple issue faced in any of the games sold on EGS (game is not launching, black screen ..etc) a simple search will take them beyond EGS.. might even to Steam forums
Oh yeah and there is also the fact that publishers going into "their own launcher" thing, that will outright expose them to other stores
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In fact, I'm dreaming of some open source and ad-free universal launcher, which could list and launch all my games.
I was replying to that part
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Ok, now I see your point.
What I meant is just that I would like to have some kind of universal launcher, so I have only one entry point to all my games, a place where all my library is listed and launchable with one click.
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Yes, and GOG Galaxy 2.0 does exactly that. You can put all our accounts in it and start all your games from a single app.
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More like "You can start all your games by starting their respective launchers from a single app".
One launcher to launch other launchers. While I would love to see GoG Galaxy to skip launchers part I believe it's not technically possible and never will.
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You are correct, that it starts the launcher, but it also starts the game too.
So it's still only one click
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You're probably right, they won't be able to magically remove the launcher dependency. But it is a single click to start a game, the rest happens automatically. Seems alright to me.
I tried Galaxy again yesterday because of this discussion. When I got my beta invite it was pretty unstable for me. And it crashed 4 times I think yesterday, before it finally updated all the game data from all clients. Seems to be stable now. I think it has a problem with large libraries, which is unfortunate. I still think it's a cool app and I can see myself using it for everything but Steam (which is running all day anyway).
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I wasn't aware of that, I'll try it to see how it works. Thanks for the tip !
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Seeing that you also have a big library - in my experience it can be a little unstable until it finishes synchronization. Just wanted to mention that. Tried it yesterday, and it crashed 4 times when I tried to use it while it was still syncing my 10k library. After that it seemed perfectly stable.
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Hi, I've been using Galaxy for a week now, initial sync also crashed a few times before completing. It seems to be a bit unstable, I have often messages about failure / need to click on retry, but it's overall working quite well. Thanks again for the very useful tip ! Have a great weekend
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Steam had pretty good sales where great games where sold -90% and such.
They don’t have that anymore, but I guess it helped get lots of people to buy there and now they don’t need it anymore
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That's not on Steam but the publisher/developers not putting games up at the same discounts they used to. You op in on Steams sales where on Epic you have to op out of the sale.
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Satisfactory is a good example. It is an indie game, and it sold 500k copies within the first few months. So yes, it looks like the EGS actually sells a lot of copies.
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Not aware of this title tbh, but if it is an EGS exclusive then considering how EPIC are too selective with exclusives it probably would have sold way more if it wasn't an exclusive.. and since you said "few months" then probably EGS paid a good part of those copies through the 10$ off coupons in their Mega Sales (on top of whatever they paid to make it exclusive -if it is an exclusive-)
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You know, maybe it would have sold even more on Steam. Definitely possible. And maybe it would have sold less. Also possible. Sold less because of worse visibility, for instance, which is a big, known problem on Steam. Considering that indie devs have been complaining about decreasing sales especially during launch period due to lack of visibility, it is actually possible that this game would not have sold as many copies on Steam.
Regarding the coupon - sure, that might have played a part. We don't know the exact sales graph, we just know that they sold 500k units in under 3 months. But what does it matter? Tzaar's statement was that the freebies lead to potential sales. That people get used to the store and are more likely to buy something there. You said "is it really working?". You were asking if people are actually spending money on Epic. You were assuming that only a tiny fraction actually spends money, and most people do not. What does it matter if some of the copies were sold at a discount with the coupon? The game is 30€. With the discount it's still 20€. That's still quite a bit of money. So, there was obviously a large number of people who were willing to spend 30€ (and some of them 20€) for a game on Epic. It was also Coffee Stains most successful launch up to that point.
500k copies for a indie game in a bit of a niche genre - I would say the answer to your question is yes. People are actually spending money on Epic. Could it have been 600k on Steam? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't really matter for the question, I think. The answer would still be yes.
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Now that I actually searched the game:
I think you downplaying Coffee Stain Studios is not fair for the sake of this argument .. the people developed and/or published Goat Sim/Sanctum/ Deep Rock.. you honestly believe Steam will bury them by obscuring visibility!!! Comeon.. as I said EGS is too selective about which games they make exclusive deals... also again as now I know more about the game and its dev I also think 500k copies are a bit low for them, but since I lack other data (mostly sales numbers for their other titles) I can't be certain.
Ofc not every one spent money on EGS bought that title, but then again as far as I have read the bigger titles didn't explicitly stated how many copies sold on EGS (Metro stated Exodus EGS preorders are 2.5 times that of Last Light on steam but exodes probably cost (developing/marketing..) far more than 2.5 times of Last Light
More importantly I didn't question if anyone will spend money at all on EGS, I said I believe so far only a sliver of created EPIC accounts are spending money in EGS... and considering how many accounts EPIC boasts about (tens if not hundred(s) of millions of accounts) I still think it is just a sliver
Also "is it working ?" I believe for a store to work it has to make profit.. now between freebies, a big unlimited 10$ off coupon (on top of any current sale, they probably has to compensate for that coupon from their "deep" pockets) and the money they pay for exclusivity I think EGS is actually losing big money...
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As others stated, EGS is probably playing the long game.
They are losing money now, so they can make a lot more later.
If that works can only said after a few more years have passed
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I think you downplaying Coffee Stain Studios is not fair for the sake of this argument
I am not downplaying anything. These are their own words:
"This is our best launch ever for Coffee Stain"
And visibility is a problem on Steam even for experienced developers. I have seen several GDG talks where devs of good, successful games complained about it.
More importantly I didn't question if anyone will spend money at all on EGS, I said I believe so far only a sliver of created EPIC accounts are spending money in EGS... and considering how many accounts EPIC boasts about (tens if not hundred(s) of millions of accounts) I still think it is just a sliver
Well on Steam there are also countless account that don't spent money. The question is how do you define a sliver. 1%? 0.1%? You make it sound like there is only a few people spending money, and the games make only money with the exclusivity deals and not with actual sales. Why not look at some numbers we can find with a quick google search and see how much they really sell and how they compare with Steam.
So, Steam is obviously the big boy with supposedly 4 billion annual revenue. They have also been reported as the most profitable company per employee. So, let's keep that in mind. Valve seems to make a lot more money than would actually be necessary in order to cover expenses and stay in business.
Epic is obviously not as big as Steam yet. I don't think anyone questions that. But how are they doing? They made 680 million dollars in revenue in their first year. That's a lot less than Steam, but it's definitely not a small number. See that in relation to the 108 million accounts at the time. So, on average an Epic customer has spent 6.29$ on the store. If 10% of the customers spent money on the store, that would be 62$ each. Steam has 1 billion accounts and 4 billion dollars revenue, which would be 4$ per customer, or 40$ if only 10% of them spend money.
These are of course not exact numbers or anything, just an attempt to put the figures we know in context. But that 680M revenue with 108M accounts looks to me as if quite a few people actually spend money on the store. Doesn't seem like just a sliver. I can only speculate what you define as a sliver, but let's say you mean something like 1%. That would mean the actually paying customers spend on average 620$, which doesn't seem likely.
Now to the question if Epic is making a profit with the store. Difficult to say. They invest a lot of money in promotion, no doubt. The freebies and the 10€ coupons probably cost them a big pile of money (the exclusivity deals usually don't, actually, since they only guarantee a minimum number of sales; once that number is reached, the exclusivity is basically free for Epic). They also take a smaller fee than Steam. So maybe they are still loosing money, despite an already decent revenue figure. Very possible. But we know this of many others. Many big companies lost money in the first few years (Netflix, Amazon...). As counter-intuitive as it may seem, but being profitable or not is maybe not the best metric to judge a new business in its first 2 years. Growth might be more important. Sadly I couldn't find any Epic sales figures for 2020. I guess we will find out end of the year how much they improved.
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I realize that everyone -including me- see or focus on a single/some of the angles that they are missing the whole picture.. add to that actually the lack of accurate data cause all the data that is being shared by someone it boosts what they try to argue but doesn't actually provide neutrality or transparency... and I don't mean us who simply speculate or argue.. I actually mean those are the sources/directly affected by the whole thing (EPIC representatives, devs/publishers of games sold on EGS, any news site that god knows what their sources are or the angle/stake of both/either those news sites and/or their source..etc)
So time will tell
Stay safe
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So in other words: you don't accept anything I wrote up there, because all the data is potentially boosted and inaccurate? xD
Of course we have to work with incomplete information here. None of these companies report all their numbers. And all of them try to present themselves as successful as possible. Sure. But when they actually release a number like annual revenue or number of accounts, we have no reason to assume that they flatout lied. These are the numbers they have to report to their shareholders. They are are most likely accurate.
And I am aware that I can hardly paint a complete picture. But I don't have to. The question was whether there is actually a substantial number of people spending money on Epic. And I feel the information we have is enough to answer with a confident "yes". Would you not agree with that?
And if I may say one more thing, I feel you are very quick to assume negative things about Epic. Like they don't sell much or not many people buy there. And at the same time you are very hesitant to accept anything positive. Even if evidence is presented (then the evidence is potentially misrepresented and inaccurate). I don't want to attack you or anything, you seem like a very nice guy. I just notice this in so many discussions about Epic. People will often not accept anything but arguments against Epic. If some random guy on reddit posts a faked screenshot about CPU usage of the Epic launcher, they quickly accept the "evidence" as fact and spread the information. But any evidence against Epic gets rejected with some justification. This makes it hard to argue the whole thing, because even if you present evidence to prove your position, it will simply be rejected. And again, I don't want to attack you and I am not saying that you are like those people. This is so far one of the very few discussions about Epic where I have not been insulted yet and I appreciate that. But I still feel like I could present hard proof here and you would still be hesitant to accept it. ;)
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My original question that grabbed your attention and focus on answering from what I see you as not the whole picture
"is it working" and the rest of that post, you want to prove the answer is yes because the numbers you have seen so far suggest it is more than a sliver.
The view I'm more looking into is EG "Store" working ?
I understand a business when it starts has a growth phase where it probably will have investments or calculated loss
But is EGS investments were planned .. the free games iirc was supposed to be for the first year yet that original duration has been expanded and the games later become even more expensive-from EGS "investments" pov- (R* probably got paid a big amount for GTAV and it was the premium edition not just the standard edition like most -if not all- the free games before it) and the OP of this thread a game will be given on its release day
Also as I said on a comment with tzaar, how did they come up with 12% especially if EGS plan is to be on same level and scale as Steam.. I do hope their plans aren't just killing the competition by just operating on a loss... or that they just want to force steam into lowering the standard cut so they come and publish "fortnite" on their own terms and get access to Steam customers..
I do agree Valve should rework their cut thing especially for smaller devs
Another point said here that EGS is playing the long game whoever posted this -no offense- assumed that all PC" fortninte" users are younger audience that are oblivious to steam and will stay like this.. some even gave examples "I have a friend, I have a relative who spend on fortninte/EGS and didn't know about".. now remember the big picture I was talking about, well for those examples they don't realize: "now they know about Steam thanks to u" and non also gave the other side of example like" I have friend(s) who are active users of Steam and also play fortnite"
and lets not ignore the fact that we live in a world everyone -especially gamers- literary has access to internet at their fingertips so how could they stay oblivious to the biggest most established digital game store
As for Satisfactory:
there are simple things that you notice on your own like, you visit their games they have tens of thousands of steam reviews that is the same average as big games like AC Odyssey so the owners of their games must be in the x millions for each game with that number of reviews
Another point I have about 260 friends when 106 of them have GTAV on Steam and 130 payday 2 and oh 80 of them have goat sim (it is coffee stain) then yeah their games are doing damn good jobs on steam
Also as a curtsy that dev is grateful that EGS gave them an exclusive deal I don't think they would say something bad about it.
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I understand a business when it starts has a growth phase where it probably will have investments or calculated loss
But is EGS investments were planned .. the free games iirc was supposed to be for the first year yet that original duration has been expanded and the games later become even more expensive-from EGS "investments" pov- (R* probably got paid a big amount for GTAV and it was the premium edition not just the standard edition like most -if not all- the free games before it) and the OP of this thread a game will be given on its release day
So, what are you saying? That it doesn't seem to work as planned, because they extended the promo? Could be, sure. Could also be that it works so well that they want to continue.
Also as I said on a comment with tzaar, how did they come up with 12% especially if EGS plan is to be on same level and scale as Steam.. I do hope their plans aren't just killing the competition by just operating on a loss...
As I said earlier, Steam takes 30% and that made them the most profitable company in the US. Think about what that means. It means they have a really large profit margin and could easily operate with a lower cut and still make tons of money. I think operating a service like Steam might actually be possible with only 12% cut. I can only speculate, of course, but I think it's pretty clear that 30% is not necessary at all.
or that they just want to force steam into lowering the standard cut so they come and publish "fortnite" on their own terms and get access to Steam customers..
Now that's some wild speculation there. ;)
I do agree Valve should rework their cut thing especially for smaller devs
Yes, absolutely. They lowered the cut for high-profile AAA games, but the smaller indie devs who live from game to game still have to pay the whole 30%. Doesn't seem fair.
Another point said here that EGS is playing the long game whoever posted this -no offense- assumed that all PC" fortninte" users are younger audience that are oblivious to steam and will stay like this.. some even gave examples "I have a friend, I have a relative who spend on fortninte/EGS and didn't know about".. now remember the big picture I was talking about, well for those examples they don't realize: "now they know about Steam thanks to u" and non also gave the other side of example like" I have friend(s) who are active users of Steam and also play fortnite" and lets not ignore the fact that we live in a world everyone -especially gamers- literary has access to internet at their fingertips so how could they stay oblivious to the biggest most established digital game store
I agree, there may be a few single Fortnite players who really don't know about Steam. But the majority will of course know it. I also don't think it really matters. People who play only Fortnite and nothing else are not the target audience right now. And when they stop and start new games, their decision will probably be based on different things, like YT videos and twitch streams. They won't just look at the EGS and nothing else. The world just doesn't work that way.
As for Satisfactory: there are simple things that you notice on your own like, you visit their games they have tens of thousands of steam reviews that is the same average as big games like AC Odyssey so the owners of their games must be in the x millions for each game with that number of reviews
Sure, they are successful. But still, 500k copies is a lot for most games (especially indies), and they said Satisfactory was their biggest launch ever. If the question is whether people spend money on the EGS - then yes, this is a great example.
Sure, Goat Simulator most certainly has more owners right now. But it's also a few years old and was in bundles. Satisfactory sold 500k units in under 3 months, which no Coffe Stain game has ever done. The fact that this was possible despite being on the EGS, is pretty good evidence that people buy games there, if you ask me.
Also as a curtsy that dev is grateful that EGS gave them an exclusive deal I don't think they would say something bad about it.
Probably true, yes. But as far as that info goes (biggest launch, 500k units), they wouldn't flatout lie about it. So the information is certainly correct. It is up to us how we interpret it.
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I do try to offer some insight with the limited data available at least to my point of view but still "maybe maybe not"
So, what are you saying? That it doesn't seem to work as planned, because they extended the promo? Could be, sure. Could also be that it works so well that they want to continue.
,
You know, maybe it would have sold even more on Steam. Definitely possible. And maybe it would have sold less. Also possible.
You felt about me that:
I feel you are very quick to assume negative things about Epic.
So lets see:
- Games I were looking forward to suddenly exclusives, EPIC took away my freedom of choice and wanted to force me into a shitty launcher.. which ironically they claim EGS here so Steam won't turn PC gaming into console games market.
- The 12%: you provided a proof from your point of view and I do agree with it to a degree that 30% is not fair for some of the smaller devs (even though steam offer them free keys to sell outside of steam.. but I don't know the numbers and statistics behind that thing so I can't be certain how good that is)... BUT you only "speculated" that it could be very much working on that Steam scale.. even the source tzaar provided "Tim" said "they chose a number.." so you -EPIC- don't do studies or market researching or whatever just pick a number and roll with it.. ok
- This point might sound extreme to you but it is a big deal to me: we are talking about a company made billions from: 1)exploiting underage through a form of gambling 2) preying on ppl (especially younger audience) needs and impulses; plenty want to show off and be in the spotlight so how they do that buy the latest and "greatest" in "fortnite".. kids are like crows they see anything shiny and they WANT it.. and I seriously don't want to talk about Tencent
- Another point as a customer the roadmap for improving their launcher,, honestly legit question here -no joke no sarcasm- : what has been done so far ?
- Yet another point was in a comment with tzaar: their claims to support devs: they are way too selective for what goes into their store and even more so for which they offer exclusive deal (pretty much all the exclusives are ppl not needing the deal money) .. Coffee Stain the example we are having here turns out "Deep Rock Galactic" was an early access title doing well on Steam.. that game was only published by them.. now I admit I could be 100%
wrong about this next assumption but I think if they actually published a game that others developed(not them) then coffee stain is more formidable than they "claim" to be... also Goat Sim true it is years old but considering how rabidly this market grown in those last few years if goat sim was released today it would have faired even better than back then despite your outlook on the visibility on steam ... now for this whole point tzaar did reply with somewhat understandable response but since they still too selective to this day I will hold this against them till I see otherwise.
I don't want to bring that I'm studying accounting,business and economics(mostly accounting) cause thanks to my gaming addiction I'm a shitty student but I do pay a tiny attention when it is something that reflects on things I see around me .. and still to play it safe I did say "we will wait and see"
Now my turn:
you do seem sympathetic towards indie devs and that steam the big bad for them and EGS is better.. mind to reflect on that
Lastly: we are arguing about -as I mentioned earlier- corporations that makes billions and considering how much greed has plagued the gaming industry .. even if this "competition for the good of PC gaming" managed to make AAA titles sell for just 1$ at launch, we can be damn sure they will come up with other schemes to suck our blood dry.
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Most of us here have sizable Steam libraries so getting games on Epic doesnt seem anything special.... For those who have less then 100 or even 200 games getting a launcher with 100+ games free (most of them AAA and good) is pretty awesome deal. I have 700+ games on steam.... And I still didnt have most of what Epic are giving away. Now consider those who have little Steam libraries - now they have quit a big library on Epic thats only growing - its becoming their main game launcher.... It seems epics target is exactly that - give away games as much as it takes to make Epic launcher be default one for many gamers. Who knows whats their idea with making it bare as hell without any functions, but if they improve the launcher at some point it might just as well become respectable launcher and distributor service.
I suppose we will see the end result when they will stop giving away free games. Theres no point in bragging about naked numbers of users. Lets see what they are when free games end and we have to start actually paying.
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ni regalándome todos los juegos que quiera voy a descargar el cliente ese, aunque me regalen lo que quiera prefiero mil veces comprarlo en steam y apoyar un ecosistema mas sano. La ultima vez que descargue el launcher fue para reclamar no me acuerdo que juego quedo ahi instalado sin mas, y de repente el consumo de cpu que no pasaba del 40% pasaba al 80/90% y me hacia cuello de botella, jugando a los juegos que siempre jugué no había nada nuevo. Comencé a recordar que había instalado y la única chance era el epic lo desinstale y automaticamente me volvió el uso al 40% promedio. Hasta el dia de hoy en el administrador de tareas en la seccion de inicio me sigue aparecion epic launcher el cual ya esta totalmente desintalado, algo que no deberia pasar. Tengo amigos que al decirle esto desintalaron el epic launcher y de la nada ya con el programa desintalado le salto un bug splat del epic (ya desintalado) y obviamente a la hora de desintalarlo no estaba en ejecucion. Asi que puede tener la campaña que quiera que no lo toco ni con un palo, sin contar que los beneficios para un usuario de latam son nulos. chupenme la pija gringos
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Hey, pero viejo, por qué te mandas un párrafo tan bíblico en una página en inglés, acá son todos gringos, nadie te va a seguir xD Jajaja, Igual tienes razón, a los de LATAM no les vale de nada como clientes seguirle el juego a Epic.
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jajajaja con que uno lo lea me alcanza, ademas el que creo el hilo tiene la foto de riquelme jugador de boca juniors asi que imagino que habla español, es una forma de decirle que no hay que ceder nuestro hermoso lenguaje ni en paginas gringas jajaja
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Pues sí, tienes razón en eso. No me había fijado que el OP le va al Boquita, jaja.
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Claro que sí papá xD
En estos momentos, con los precios en pesos argentinos de Steam, para mi no hay competencia. Hasta deje de comprar en Humble Bundle. Los precios regionales para mi país son imbatibles, nunca fue tan barato comprar juegos desde mi punto de vista (aún sumando impuestos).
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y hay algunos...bueno casi todos brasileros que se mudan a la tienda de argentina lo hacen cambiar la cuenta a un amigo radicado aca, eso escuche.
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Tencent don't own only Fortnite, they own other games too as one example PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUND.
That company is on of the biggest in the world, so the money they spend at Epic aren't really much for them.
They can have a competition with steam at that level and they try to build up a user base of longtime players from their games as example Fortnite. This players are mostly young and a lot of them don't know Steam (i know different ones by myself). So they don't have a lot of positive experiences with Steam, they don't have a big library there that "holds them at steam".
And they want to attract new customers that normaly bought their games at steam -or a shop that sold steam keys-. And for all of that goals they need promotions, headlines, clicks and freebies attract a lot of people and spread the word too.
If you look close you see how the riot mob against Epic changed, mostly, to "Epic is a possibility if the prices fit", so i would say they are near the normal competition high.
And now are Steam in the position to do some cool stuff too or loose customers. Not much at the begin but i am sure they start to feel that Epic is not like Origin or Ubisoft that can't attract a lot of customers (too small portfolio for that).
Oh and before someone come around with "epic fanboy", i spend there exactly ZERO money.
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Ten ent only owns part of Epic, which sets its own bidget
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i agree with ''they dont have a big library on steam to hold them here'' because many young people dont and when they start building up a decent library with aaa games and fortnite on the same launcher, they tend to stick with that!
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they own other games too as one example PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUND.
Only 1.5% of the company. Full list:
Full ownership of Riot Games, the American developers of League of Legends[151]
Full ownership of Norwegian publisher Funcom.[152][153]
Full ownership of Swedish developer Sharkmob, founded in 2017 by ex-Ubisoft developers and fully acquired by Tencent in 2019.[154]
80% ownership in the New Zealand company Grinding Gear Games, the developers of the game Path of Exile.[155][156][157]
Approximately 84% ownership in Finnish mobile game developer Supercell[158]
40% ownership of American developers Epic Games, which was used to launch Fortnite[159]
20% ownership of Japanese publisher and developer Marvelous.[160]
17.66% ownership of South Korean mobile developer Netmarble.[161]
Approximately 15% ownership of American mobile game developer Glu Mobile[162]
13.54% ownership of South Korean company Kakao, the parent company of South Korean publisher Kakao Games.[163][164]
9% ownership in UK developer Frontier Developments[165]
5% ownership of American holding company Activision Blizzard, the parent company of Activision, Blizzard and King[162]
5% ownership of Swedish publisher Paradox Interactive[162]
5% ownership in France's Ubisoft, purchased from Vivendi following Vivendi's failed attempt to buy out Ubisoft in March 2018[166][167]
1.5% ownership of South Korean company Bluehole, the publisher of PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds.
Majority ownership in Switzerland-based mobile game developer Miniclip[168]
Capital Investment in Japanese developer PlatinumGames[169]
Minority share in German developer Yager Development[170]
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Your list is very well done. Thanks for it.
Because nearly each one only know their connection with Fortnite i gave the examples as a small intro into the fact that tencent is much bigger as the most people think and "own" much more games as only Fortnite.
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tencent is much bigger as the most people think
Yes, not only "much bigger" but the biggest gaming company in the world.
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If Sega continued (most likely) with the practices of add lots of DLC for thier TW games (like with TW Warhammer 2) there's no point of getting the base game for free if will never going to buy the future DLC's on EGS, and i hate to have my TW games "uncompleted". Probably i wait for a sale to grab this new TW game ... IF its a good game, not a game like was ROME 2 (sorry but that game was awful, im stick with Rome 1).
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The marketing is psychology as well.
It's easier to break the inhibition, when you say: "I have much games on Epic, now I can buy this or this game" as "I have just 1-2 games there, I don't want a launcher for 2-3 games" So not buy.
And it's to create sympathy, when you think, you get so much for free there.
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Most likely they will release dozens of DLCs for the game over time. But hey the game will be fun for the first few weeks or months before you realise the game is not complete without DLC and they're asking you for money
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Not so long ago i was talking with a 8 years old kid (i was fixing his mom's laptop) and when i mentioned "steam" he has no idea what i was talking aobut.... he only played Fortnite.... and then is when it hit me.... we're not Epic Target customers, they're playing the long game.... in a few years, these kids will be buying games on epic for the same reason we still do it on steam....
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Well, at first I thought it's a great realization but then I can easily compare it to Minecraft, that's all some people play even when they grow up, or CS GO, but then those who don't play only fps games - maybe half of them? - turn to bundles which are still all Steam keys atm. Will there be bundles with Epic keys in the future? Maybe. As people grow up, many can't argue with discounts/money, will Epic still be doing $10 coupons then? If so, they may succeed, although if you want cheaper indie games, coupons don't qualify, and coupons means still at least $5 a game, and it better be good quality indie minimum for many people to buy it. They've at least got a shoe in right now to start competitive though.
Maybe it'll turn into a situation where it's like a console and people have a smaller library on either PC or console.
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No tengo mucho que aportar a la discusion, pero mas alla de ser hincha de River, aguante Román !!
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epic tiene la gran banca de tencent que es basicamente una empresa con la misma guita que google o cercano y probablemente los sobrepaseen lo proximos años. La practica comercial q usa epicse llama dumping y consiste en ir a perdida con el objetivo de eliminar a la competencia., pueden darse el lujo porque tienen a tencent como gran grupo inversor.
Si no logran acabar con la competencia por lo menos logran insertarse en el mercado con una publicidad efectiva.
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At least their investing that fortnite money on the launcher and first party developers, their creating a player base that's not really there, but you own something you may like on EGS now, which is a valid strategy for a company that came in late for a battle valve had already won.. If this was activision that money would go to Bobby Kotick while developer teams are getting cuts. Or take2 or EA.
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I think EGS knows that they have a ton of PR work to go because of their rocky launch. With early exclusive debacles, a limited library compared to Steam and (early on) even some first party platforms, and fewer features than almost any other store, EGS launched in a major underdog position, having only a few first party titles. However, Epic has huge amounts of money to throw at things- not only do they have the massive influx of Fortnite profit, and any cross marketing promotions related to Fortnite, they also have passive income from licensing Unreal Engine, which has been a gold standard for AAA game engines for decades and continues to be one of the most prolific and venerable engines, even with the rise of Unity (which was largely relegated to indie games until rather recently).
So, EGS can afford to toss free stuff at people, and it works. Honestly, I was very much a "I'm not getting another launcher" person until EGS won me over with their spectacular sales and freebies. Growing a loyal customer base is more important to EGS than profit, I think, and I've had no issues with their support (contrasted to often slow and unhelpful responses from Steam), they've backed popular decisions like supporting GeForce Now, and generally speaking done quite well except for those early exclusivity missteps. I have no qualms using EGS, though it's not my main gaming platform, but they do have a lot of vulnerabilities now, especially since Steam has finally started to work on new and improved features after years of stagnation and new games after almost a decade of no new major successes.
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Total War: Troy for free during it's first 24hs on EGS. Since this announcement I have been thinking a lot about the "free games" Epic's policy.
TW Troy, being part of one of the best selling sagas ever on PC, going as an exclusive and free during it's first 24hs on EGS is a big milestone in the industry imo... a "game-changer" maybe.
Have been searching about articles on this marketing strategy, some research or analysis on Epic numbers and long term goals but couldn't actually find anything except ad-news...
Is this just possible through Fortnite money? The engine money? Their investors? I'm sure they paid Rockstar a huge lot of money because everyone seems to have registered GTAV on EGS, even people who cannot run it or even don't care at all about videogames. And now they will deploy another huge ammount for every copy of Troy claimed on their site (anyway I guess they will be a lot less than GTAV)
Thanks in advance if someone can share some links or thoughts about this topic. Hope you are doing well and stay safe.
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