I am in favor of having something uniform and organized. I loved Rachel charts, and it was my go-to source of information on bundles.
Ideally, we would have some sort of well organized "bundle wiki" which anyone could edit. This way, it is not a lot of work for anyone, but no "monopolizing" takes place (though I really do not understand why anyone is concerned about such "monopoly" -- it is not as if Rachel had any personal gains by doing all that work).
Unhappily, I have no knowledge to help with such an endeavor... Well, if anybody figures out how to do such wiki, I might contribute with info now and then.
And, if no organizing takes place, sure, people posting bundle announcements in the "Deals" section is fine too. No big deal, really. We are all doing great, I love you all, shiny happy people holding hands.
And Kate Pierson... I would marry her just for her voice. :D
Cheers!
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And Kate Pierson... I would marry her just for her voice. :D
I feel old...
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No kidding! I remember this!
I usually do not enjoy singers that scream their songs... But when she screams (CANDY!), my spine goes all tingly. :D
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In my opinion the charts would cost to much effort to make and they aren't that usefull i usually go to the steam page in the first place because i want to see screenshots reviews etc... So all i ever used them for were the actual links to the bundles and/or steam links if the bundle sites doesn't provide them.
I wonder if there is a way to automate this process there probably is but i would be hard to code im just starting to code so no clue about the limitations.
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I'm wondering if the dude who does the charts for GameDeals on Reddit could help with the coding? I believe he has a script that scrapes info from different sites, but I'm not sure. He's also a member of SG:
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Why not think of RaCharts as a standard that bundle thread creators are free to adhere to or not? For instance, you could have your script take effect on any thread that contains the tag [RaCharts], and ignore all the others that don't. And there you have it, it doesn't need to be any more elaborate than that.
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I know, I didn't mean to imply otherwise :)
Also, you can ignore my suggestion. After reading about how your tool works, I see there would be no need for a tag system.
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Just let people do as they please, it really doesn't matter who creates such thread(s), or if there is any thread at all. Favoring specific people for specific task while at the same time discouraging everybody else from doing the same is not only super elitist, toxic and unneeded - it's not even possible because you're not in position to say who should create a thread and who should not. This is not a rat race of creating bundle threads - eventually the "group" as you describe it will form itself, but in non-official form, and will be happy to cooperate, without taking freedom from anybody else who would like to help. I still remember how people jumped on some innocent guy who posted a bundle thread like rachell - it was the most disgusting move I've ever seen here on SG - like rachell was entitled to post those threads and everybody else should stay quiet, even though rachell herself didn't have anything against.
I have no idea why such discussion is even needed, like we're discussing some super important things here, I'm probably the only guy who doesn't really care who creates a thread at all, as long as mentioned person puts effort in it. How your script works and if it works at all is your sandbox and it should in no way affect people creating threads in SG discussions.
I respect rachell work because she did awesome job with helping the community, but you're acting like it was the most important thing on SG and it's crucial decision who continues her work - it's not.
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So far that group hasn't formed, in all the years SG has been online, and I very much doubt it would ever form.
And for some reason nobody complained back then, and there was nobody asking community what we should do either.
there isn't even a group in place, could we stop pretending we know what will that group do or not
It doesn't matter what group will do or not - you want to grant creating bundle thread permission to specific people in a specific group, and take away that permission from everybody outside. Everything else, especially how group will work doesn't change what I said.
As for my script, it affects people who use it, and since it's related to this same topic I was asking for suggestions on how should it work, since up until now it had sort of a whitelist to check for valid authors.
And I wouldn't have anything against if you posted that in your own script thread asking people about their opinion - maybe I'd even suggest something myself. But instead you created an unnecessary thread, created a "problem" that never existed, and asked people what they think about that, like we were discussing a future of SG.
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Of course they like the idea, I also like the idea of people posting bundle threads so I can easily check games without doing it manually. But I don't like your view on current situation and trying to solve an issue that never existed. As you said - just personal opinions on what we consider necessary and unnecessary. Either way:
I just make the tools available.
Without a need to overcomplicate things that are supposed to be easy.
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appID is sufficient for me, whether it's contained in the link or not doesn't matter. I have enough of my own tools to check eligibility, calculate actual discount, possible profits from selling cards etc. But remember that I'm exception rather than a rule - most people probably are just looking for a way to tell them how much % of the bundle they have, how many times games were bundled, and how much potential CV they can get, together with info if some games were given away for free.
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You changed the topic from freedom to some chart standard, which has nothing to do with it. If people want to use rachell format, they're free to do so, and if somebody wants to use his own format, I can't see anything wrong in it either. I don't know why you want to force one and the only group idea, together with one and the only permitted layout, I assume it's because you want to keep it compatible with your own script, which once again has nothing to do with the discussion how things should be organized on SG.
Personally I don't care that much, maybe I'd even write a bot that would automate it the same way I automated my giveaway group, but if there is anything that SG taught me, it's endless drama I don't want to contribute to. People get salty over anything, even some poor soul posting a bundle thread on a freaking forum, so whatever you do, there will be people against your decision. That's one of the reasons why I suggested you to stop trying to fix what is not broken and leave people with a choice, instead of participating in that, wasting your time and getting annoyed. In the end it's your choice.
No wonder why Rachel took that decision, I've been two days in Rachel's shoes and I'm already feeling like I want out.
That sums up my negativity towards the whole imaginary problem, pointless discussion and trying to enforce some common sense in this mess. Just think twice if the way you're going to will make you happy in long-run, because judging from your post and my own knowledge + experience, you won't enjoy it, or even deeply regret later.
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So far that group hasn't formed, in all the years SG has been online, and I very much doubt it would ever form.
It seems that MilleW, devotee, InquisitorAles, Drafek (and possibly others) are in practice that group. Not sure how coordinated they are between them, but the result is awesome. Thank you all for spending your time to create these threads.
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I don't want to downplay the dedication she put into these threads but I feel going forward would probably be best done through a bot. Something programmed to scrape the various bundle sites and update posts here on sg. Bot creator could leave thread open to improvements in process separate from the bundle posts and generally make sure the bot doesn't run amuck. This way we can eliminate a lot of the drama that ended up burning rachel out and the in fighting on who gets to take over the thread legacy ect.
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Are you seriously saying that bots don't have feelings!?!?
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Jokes aside, bots also make mistakes, and I'm sure there would be still some tweaks to do to the threads, eventually. Plus all the information users give in the comments and is usually added to the OP (which, as Sighery already said, would be editable only by the bot owner).
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Please note I haven't read all 140+ comments yet.
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I didn't expect all of this to happen, but I guess that's how things work. No wonder why Rachel took that decision, I've been two days in Rachel's shoes and I'm already feeling like I want out.
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Sighery's suggestion of a group of people to do the threads sounds fine to me. In fact, it's quite a nightmare for a single person to manage it in a timely and accurate fashion. Again, I don't understand how Rachel was able to do it.
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And by a group of people I mean "everyone" even, if their thread keeps up to the expectations. Like Sighery said above, Rachel standardized the charts, and what information users expect from a thread. If someone creates a thread with very basic information and another one following the standard is created (by whomever it might be), that should be at least tolerated.
If we assume that everyone can make a bundle thread and then that's the one and only thread and there can't be another then is just a fight about who is first. Time is of the essence. Let's make a new thread, titled "new bundle!" and with a link to the bundle site with a "new bundle from whatever" text.
Rachel's thread were not only a great source of information on current bundles. They are also an incredibly useful source of information on ended bundles, like an archive. Only few sites keep a bundle page after it ends (Groupees, for example, Bundlestars is another one I think). Indiegala and Humble Bundle just send their bundle pages into oblivion once it ends, and all information is lost (that reminds me of something...). Do you need to know which games were featured in a specific bundle? Search for the bundle's title on the Deals category. Do you need information on all recent Humble Bundles? Search for "humble". Or "Indiegala". Or "Otakumaker". You'll find them, and you'll have all the information you might need in those threads. Do you remember that there was an issue with that game (Dropsy, Mafia II) once included in an specific bundle (February 2016 Humble Monthly, 2K Bundle 2) but you can't remember what was that about? It's all in Rachel's OP and in the users' comments. Region locks, restrictions, 1-key-per tier, hints, extra notices... It's all in there.
TLDR; I don't want any fame or glory, and I definitely would love people to be able to help with the Rachart™ threads.
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Just a general fyi: I'm pretty sure https://isthereanydeal.com/ keeps an archive of the contents of ended bundles.
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True, it keeps an archive of the contents, not of the context, of ended bundles.
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It may be worth making a suggestion in the site suggestions thread to maybe create some sort of standardized bundle wiki or something like that which everyone could contribute to, and then there would be one central / standardized location for bundle deals to be placed that all could contribute too. I don't know how feasible it would be, but it seems that if the bundle deal threads are one of the most popular parts of the site it may be worth the effort to have a standardized section for it.
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making bundle threads a few years
sure feels that way, but it actually was "only" one ;-)
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and gah, the kind of stupid infighting against a coordinated effort for the benefit of the whole community here is exactly what made us lose a valuable member.
So horrible that some want to provide (investing time w/o much if any reward) and many to see quality threads with useful information..
But some are only outz for dramaz...
To the topic:
anybody willing to post threads can team up with Devotee and form an open team (group approach), without any of the "monopolizing" nonsense, as anybody can join.
To organize, especially for notifications about new bundles, a 'master thread' on sg doesn't work well for multiple people.
I suggest making a Steam group for posters and 'notifiers' which provides the advantage that a Steam thread can be subscribed by many. There new bundles can be notified and the next available posters who has time to do it, 'claims' that bundle and makes the thread.
That would allow for maximum flexibility, compared to a per day/site approach, scaling well with any number of people.
All that assuming there actually is anybody else besides Devotee who wants to do it at all.
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Yours are very good suggestions, and the main idea I think Sighery and I have in mind.
The basics: anyone can create a thread (no whitelists in the chart enhancer script), just call dibs on a bundle and use the RaChart format (either by using Sighery's chart creation script or by hand, your choice) to avoid duplicating efforts. The way to call dibs could be like you proposed (a steam discussion). Once you know someone is working on it, there's no need for others to race or rush to do it.
Having several volunteers in different time zones as Sighery suggested would help a lot too. The more we are and the more time zones we cover, the quicker a thread will be created. Again, everyone is welcome to help, and all tools/thread templates would be provided, so you'd only have to create the thread, change a few details, add the chart and you'd be done.
I really have no intention of being the sole creator of bundle threads, or monopolize then. I just would like the format to be a standard, and make it easy for anyone to create a bundle thread.
This is not a sort of closed elite club which requires admission. It's just the opposite. We're just trying to figure a way to organize people.
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It doesn't really need to be standardised in any way, I saw plenty of good bundle post threads in the past there will be plenty in the future.
I mean do we need a standardised "Summer Sale" thread? We get 20 of those a day a week before the sale starts, why stop at bundling?
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i agree it should not be standardized, but there is not really anything wrong with having several different options either.
i would kinda look like it as linux x environment choices. you got your minimalist threads, your medium detailed threads, then your bloaty detailed threads.
the large 3k, 4k, 5k, game collectors and extreme bundle buyers (mostly) very heavily rely on the enhancement script part that was a major time saver. i could simply open up the thread, see that the entire bundle is highlighted and that meant i owned everything in it, close thread and move on. (the bloaty thread)
but i do agree there does not need to be only one standard or poster. i would just miss the enhancement if somebody or a bunch of people (idc there) didnt continue making it work.
ohhhhh & as far as the summer sale part, @Sighery YES!!!! lol thats a great idea... lol not standardized, but the highlighting script on them would be nice ^^
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I can see how useful it could be, but in the current sg climate, trying to take over the duty will cause nothing but issues. The better thread will rise to the top and eventually someone will come out like Rachel as the most useful thread creator.
I mean Rachel herself left due to hate and drama, passing the responsibility will do nothing but perpetuate that amd give those with an agenda a further reason to feed their wild conspiracy theories. Let it be for a while at least, carry on creating threads like Rachel did, they will soon become the norm as others who make them will have to compete with the popular style.
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yeah, i understand. but i actually do hope this causes a more minimalist version too. and maybe the popularity can be split evenly even among several., i too do not want the drama out of it. in fact i'd probably prefer a slightly more minimalist thread that somebody makes. that may be less desirable for all though so i kinda hope there are several threads on the same bundle even personally (one of each kind to match everyones desires)
edit: sry if i sound very adamant about the cause. the rachart script is the very first script i started to use and it opened me up to start using several scripts since then, and i dont wanna lose any of them now that ive been spoiled with them :D
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But just like you not caring about blacklists and conspiracy theories, there's a portion of people who don't care about the charts. I just don't see why it matters so much that it needs all this fuss, if no one said anything and had carried on making the thread just like Rachel did, this would have been solved, especially if the group creating the thread like Rachel did didn't care about blacklists.
The only thing publicity does is create the chance for people to push weird agenda's.
Do I personally think you guys should take over the posts, yeah, it sounds good. Should this exclude anyone else that wants to, no it shouldn't. If you just carry on as a group making the posts, you'll eventually become the dominant posters through sheer quality of posts, there doesn't need to be a public vote on the matter.
I'm not trying to stir up the pot here, just trying to give legitimate reasoning and preempt what drama it'll cause.
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I personally don't for one second believe you are trying to gain anything from this, I've been around the forums long enough to be able to point out the troublemakers. The problem I find myself having, is recently the people who aren't trouble makers are being dragged into troubling times. Groups are in fighting, friends are hating on each other, the smallest things are triggering huge flame wars. At this current time I can't see anything other than hate coming from narrowing down and becoming more exclusive in regards to ANYTHING.
So whilst I believe your intentions are noble and I believe having a dedicated team would definitely improve quality and streamline the process, I think the timing is awful(which isn't something you couldn't necessarily control).
Also after a brief flick through the other threads, people are certainly making this out to be a bigger deal than it really should be. That's not helping the cause at all.
IMHO if the group that's been suggested to be formed had just gone ahead and posted bundles without any discussion about it, things would have probably gone with them eventually taking over control of running the bundle threads, as it is, I think you're going to find yourself with certain troublemakers needlessly causing you all trouble. Which is a shame as I'm sure a lot of people find it useful and people are doing it to help!
Thanks! Needed to change it I'd had Rena for a long time!
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My vote is for everyone can create the thread.
And if the creator wants their thread to work with the enhancer, they have to make it following Rachel's format.
Better thread will get more attention anyway.
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You can edit the script currently so that any properly edited chart will work, but I haven't reviewed the script to see if it bounces off a third party and I don't want to cause undue spam, but if it really bothers you, it's an easy (temporary) fix.
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I was looking for a picture for something else and found this..
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Will miss Rachel's threads. They were the ones I looked for first when popping into the forum, esp for things like preorder bundles for Groupees, because she kept track of all the hints that had been given and possible games w/in the bundle. That helped me decide if I wanted to preorder or not.
I voted on the group suggestion. BUT, I know personally how much a pain in the ass that alone will be and do not envy those that may end up taking up the job if that is what comes into being. When I was more active over on deviantART, I used to help in various groups. If it was a group I really enjoyed, and they needed more help with submissions and keeping things organized (because people do have lives, busy lives, outside of the interwebz) I'd apply. I ended up in over half a dozen groups at one point as an admin/mod on some level. And as other admin/mod would fade off (or many that applied just "for fame" would not do their jobs), I would gradually be stuck with more and more, until I was actually lead admin of a handful of groups. Doing submissions by myself. Trying to bring in more help to have the same results again and again. Post journals updating how things were going in the group. Make polls taking ideas. Start up contests when people voted they wanted them, only to have 2-3 entries, despite extending deadlines many times in hopes of getting more entries. Just over 3 yrs ago, after doing that slog for five years in the largest of the groups I had "inherited", and 2-3 yrs in the others, I was at a point in my life where I did not need or want the stress and the thankless whining. I was in the middle of packing up and moving cross-country with my two children, while also dealing with a very verbally and emotionally abusive ex. So I literally said "Fuck it" and quit all but two the groups. I still go and glance back at those groups, but no one has really noticed the lack of moderation since I set everything to auto accept anything submitted to the group. Those two groups I am still part of and help in, were groups started by friends. One is completely dead (group for fans of her DnD character) since she's basically abandoned it and no one submits anything anymore because she stopped caring. The other is alive, but mostly quiet, with a few submissions a day. Easy to maintain, relaxed group. And while they are two different things: being part of a group of mods that care for an art based group on dA and being part of a team of people doing threads here for bundles... They are at their core the same: two groups of people taking care of something that requires a lot of time and effort, with little gratitude and thanks back. So I feel for those that may take up this mantle, as individual (devotee currently, ty btw) or as a group. Here though, in a forum environment, it is more volatile and stressful. I am amazed Rachel was able to do it as long as she did. The time and effort put in. IF it is a group, it will need to be a group of highly devoted individuals, because burn out and turn over rates will probably be high. It will need to be highly organized and that alone will require a lot of dedication from at least one person to keep the group together and going. I had my time trying to help and putting countless hours in, too many years of it, in some ways. So I will not be putting in my hat for this, but to the individual or group that takes up this mantle, I thank you now. And best of luck. Because you are going to need it.
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I have classes, so I won't be super free certain times of day, but if I see a new bundle that catches my eye and there's no thread I'll try to contribute now and then.
I just hope people won't hate me like they did the two or three times I beat Rachel to the draw. T_T
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Let me suggest the group idea with a group leader. Should work something like this...
Choose a number of trustworthy individuals. Form a Quicktopic so you can avoid redundancy. The first person to post in the Quicktopic saying something like "I got X Bundle" makes the individual threads. This way we don't get doubled and tripled threads as people race to post. The trusted individuals should vote among themselves on whom would have the most time to maintain the Master list since only one person can edit it.
I think a group is better because it can cover all time zones, cover vacations, and let the people involved have a life if they wish. And I think letting it run by a secret group Quicktopic, you should be able to add and remove people when burnout sets in and should keep the dirty laundry among those involved.
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This would be great. Lately "isthereanydeal" doesn't show when a game was bundled, suggesting they also have trouble tracking them.
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Well I think we should just post them whenever someone has time. I Made a thread about the nemesis Bundlestars bundle, Made a simple chart but people complain er that it didn't includes how many times it was bundled or not, in my opinion this is nonsense I buy games for myself, if you want to find out of it includes cards look it up ;P. Dovotee made a chart with the chartscript I replaced that one with mine (only difference was including how many times it was bundled) I thank him for that but we shouldnt Monopoly making bundle threads ;p
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Why is that still a thing? Let anyone do as they please. If they want to post a bundle thread, let them do it the way they want. If they don't want to, then just go search a bundle for yourself, from isthereanydeal for example - it's not nuclear physics. Do you think Rachel wanted this monopoly? Nobody wants a monopoly of bundle threads. Stop being so picky, people!
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I was mostly directing my question to the commenters here, not you. Still, so what if the quality and the quantity of the bundle threads decreased? Does it even matter? People just want someone to tell them there's a new bundle in that site, not post every detail these games may have. And who even accused you about donations and whitelists? I'm just saying that people are giving more weight to bundle threads that they should have (not you specifically, that's why I said before "Stop being so picky, people". It's just that most people (not you, I repeat) want everything ready for themselves, but they will freak out if you ask them to do it. It's not that important to make a bundle thread, you must admit it. It's useful, that's obvious, but thing is, if you insist that 1 person or a few people do it, then it be hard work for them. If everyone do as they please, nobody will consider this as hard work. You're saying that you don't want people to do hard work, but you don't care if 1 person does all the hard work for just a simple "thanks". How long will he/she will find this hard work as "fun"? About Rachel, all this fame, that she didn't actually want, brought negativity too. So, all this time, she had a bundle thread monopoly, which was really hard work, did it for free, all she got was "thanks", and she had to deal with a lot of negativity that made her feel that the environment here is unhealthy. So, let's say you give her hard work to someone else. Won't he/she end up feeling like Rachel too? That's why I'm against any kind of monopoly. Please note that I'm supporting Rachel with my comments, that's why I'm against monopoly. Did you understand what I said?
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People just want someone to tell them there's a new bundle in that site, not post every detail these games may have.
im people too, and i want some of that info. personally all i care about is the title and it being highlighted or not with the script, but thats just my opinion.. same as yours is that people only want info that the bundle exists only..
the monopolization was brought up several times already and i think thruout the entire thread there is maybe 2-3x ppl that voted for a direct somebody. everyone else agreed with you, me, sigh, etc. nobody wants it monopolized. we just want the threads to continue is all..
the script was changed so that it can now be done that way. kinda late to the party tbh, cause its kinda alrdy done and overwith and ppl are moving on ;)
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But still, most people just "expect" a person to do all this hard work. Not themselves obviously - they want everything ready. They want someone to do it, the way they like it, but they don't want to help. So, I think it's better to leave anyone do it the way they want, without asking from specific people to do that. Otherwise, just like we have steamtrades and steamgifts, people can make steambundles too. :P Anyway, I'm not buying bundles and such, but I'm really wondering what I'll see in bundle threads in the future. I hope I won't see people saying something like "you didn't make it the way I want - f@cking change it" or any kind of bullying.
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i do fear that example.. i hope if anything people merely suggest it politely like in Drafeks case earlier today. it was made basic at first, someone politely suggested it, and he changed to that formatting. but i can totalllllly agree and see that happening later with someone not so polite and it ending up another sg dramatic event. :S
update: also it was politely suggested here and it even took a cple days but then was updated :D
so far knocks on wood things have been working out imo =)
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yes, ty for that update btw. i did notice it was more friendly to even more basic layouts now =)
sounds good on group, may wanna consider just leaving it public and not invite only so everyone feels like they are more welcomed to join it. (just my opinion, don't actually care if you take it or leave it)
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Btw, you may or may not have noticed, but it was pretty easy to search for Rachel's threads. You didn't need to search for bundle or anything. Just the Heart character.... because Rache'love' it worked with the theme.
Whatever the community does is pretty fine by me, but I absolutely preferred knowing I could get the info on the forums easily, quickly and nearly instantly from the threads she created.
I almost never commented on them in the end, but I used them all the time before I moved. While others may not have, I was a lazy bastard and appreciated the work she put into them.
That being said, if others want to create threads, then create threads. I would still prefer if some people were also making threads in the old style. Whether one person or a group, anyone who followed a format, or whatever. Doesn't really matter to me.
What is important to me is that someone does it and hopefully the information is useful and contains the relevant information I prefer.
However, as I'm not willing to do it myself, I can only state my preferences, because I'm a spoiled brat who never experienced SG without Rachel's threads and I'm unwilling to do the work myself.
If others pick up the torch and make my life easier though, I'll be very happy. If no one does, I'll probably buy less bundles... because I just don't have the time along with everything else I do to really hunt for them the same way that she used to dedicate her time to the task.
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Btw, you may or may not have noticed, but it was pretty easy to search for Rachel's threads. You didn't need to search for bundle or anything. Just the Heart character..
Yep, the ❤ was great! I used that too when searching for only her threads. :)
...Which is why on the 3 threads I've made so far I've included the heart. I noticed Devotee did as well on some of his threads.
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+1 to the idea of having more than 1 person manage the bundles. it's so much easier that way
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