People are always gonna have different opinions about everything, the giveaways are exactly that a give away and people shouldn't expect others to do the same just because they've given something away but it's always nice if they do as everyone loves a giveaway.
Even if people don't give anything back in the form of gifts they are still giving in the form of the points which go towards building a person's contribution level.
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Whats a public giveaway? Is it only open giveaways with no level requirement? Is a giveaway in an public group with 5000 members public? Is a level 10 giveaway public? What about all the invite only giveaways that are posted on the forum and elsewhere?
I've always considered my invite only giveaways that I post in the Sgifts chat to be public but I know a lot of people probably wouldn't.
For me, it's about more than simple gift to win ratio, saying thanks in giveaways and, if the description asks for it, posting something clever or thoughtful always went a long way as far I was concerned.
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I understand that many people don't want to giveaway games for people who only want to get free good games. But it's impossible that everyone have more given games than they got. So it's silly. Make GA's for whitelist or for only invite. Leecher is active human, who loves free staff and must do everything what contributor want.
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If everybody gave away as many games as they won, there would be no need for a giveaway site, we would just buy the games we want and be done with it.
Also ... giveaway =/= trading, if you just wanna trade the keys you have for something else go find a trading site.
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And yet φίλε Κώστα, giveaway =/= leechaway.
We have to consider that all these giveaways are gifts from real users, they're not items from promotion companies that will be donated either way, in order to promote the software studio. You could be right if this was some kind of raffles site where you bid to win a mobile phone or a book. But it is not.
Since It's not obligatory to donate back, this is just a discussion to exchange opinions. But some users simply cannot be eligible for referees on ethics, while having 40:1 win ratio and a $350:$1 worth value ratio. Just saying..
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I am not trying to be referee, a judge or whatever snarky way you want to call me.
I am simply stating my opinion. I am allowed to do that, arent I? (dont answer, its not up to you to decide)
Unless proven otherwise, this site was created to GIFT games not trade them, which is effectively what keeping a good ratio means.
And gift SPARE keys not buy them specifically to gift them.
I appreciate those that do that and thank them for it, but you cannot and will not make me feel bad for not doing the same.
I will however gift any and all spare keys I come across, but evidently I dont have many.
Finally you have every right to add me to your blacklist, it's your prerogative but again... you CANNOT and WILL NOT make me feel bad for not buying keys just to gift them!! Just saying..
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Yeah let's skip politeness. That's free too, right ?
First, as i stated more than twice here in this topic, leeching is not against the rules and i only blacklist someone for constantly breaking SG rules. There's nothing cryptic about it, and i could undestand your anger while trying to defend youself but being provocative on top of being a leech -in this topic's context at least- is not helping your case.
Now, there're opinions and there're comments upon them. And that's called a discussion forum, otherwise there would be people who would come, click on giveaways, take their gifts, and leave. (See what i just did there?). Well, i really don't see why any of us would be prohibited from commenting on your posts, we all have the same rights here.
Anyway, I could continue discussing those giveaways and ethics, but i won't since such blunt arrogance is a trigger point for me.
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mmmmmWAT?
If you have trouble understanding english maybe you should refrain from discussions in it.
I dont know if its my opinion that offends you, but once again stop it with the name calling/labeling.
I was and am not rude to you, I have no anger towards you or any subject and I am not defending myself of anything simply because I have done nothing wrong, no matter how hard you try to accuse me!!
Blunt arrogance though could be one of my traits, but only in the way that I have an opinion and am not afraid to express it.
I can see why you would prefer me to hide behind my finger, feeling guilty and whatnot but sorry, your name calling and pointlessly beating around the bush has no gravity whatsoever...
It's become clear how you like to cover reason in the blanket of ethics and beat the heck out of it so goodbye, I've wasted enough time on you...
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^^ Yeah right, you've proven my points.. :(
You're still rude, arrogant and provocative and i'm 100% sure there's nothing i could say to change your attitude. As far as i know, reason has nothing to do with people who would go to any length trying to beautify their actions. You can keep inventing reasonable arguments to cover your imbalanced ratios, i honestly don't care anymore.
And now, for the sake of the argument:
You've won 40 games where half of them have steam cards, at least. Let's say 20 games * 0,15€ = ~3€. Agreed? Now, if you had sold the cards, you could have bought some cheap steam gifts (at least 15!! of the cheapest low-end games) or a couple decent titles at sale prices. But instead of doing that, you kept the games and the profits for yourself, while you could donate back 3€ worth of games, without paying a cent.
Well done and thank you for clearing things up.
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I didn't see it, so I guess it's up to me: OP is a leecher.
Thanks, I'll be here all week, be sure and tip your waitress.
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None of the above. I wouldn't consider any of the your hypothetical examples to be leechers. In fact, I boggles my mind that anyone here would actually label those two "random thx-comment" members as leechers based solely on that behaviour.
IMO, a leecher benefits from a community without contrubuting anything "worthwhile" back to that community.
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Why do you care? Our society is based on judging each other daily in order to strengthen the feeling to "belong".
Also the gifter has every damn right to blacklist whomever he chooses. A leecher's private life doesn't concern me, as my private life doesn't concern him at all either.
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Bender is classic leecher and how is it then possible that he is most favorite character on Futurama. But yeah basically exactly what you said, I agree.
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My dear friend you misunderstood me. I do care about leechers leeching and "sucking up" the chance from other honest members to win games. I could care less about is their personal lives, financial difficulties and etc. I have my own personal set of problems to deal with thank you very much.
Also you are a perfect example of a judgmental entitled member of our society. Thank you very much for the illustration.
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I only put on the blacklist people who won my giveaways and don't say even a simple "thanks".
As for the rest, no.
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2 Type of leechers in my eyes tho.
First , the ones who actually legit Cannot afford to buy games , and have to resort to such sites as source of games...
Im cool with them tbh , idc even if they won 1k games and gave away 0 ...
Then there is the second type of people , who just Hoard games for the sake of Reasons ... and moreoften then not never EVER play them , and dont even intend to play them either .
I Despise such people , and would blacklist them if i cared bout blacklisting and stuff .
I guess there is those who gave away 1 game just to get level 1 and open more giveaways to themselves ... but they kinda fit in both categories above .
As for people who lets say gave away 10 games but won 50 ... well RNGeezus likes them , and 10 games is Infinite times more games given to the community compared to the Hoarders ...
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I've only Blacklisted 1 "Leecher". He was lvl0 he had won more then $2000 USD in prizes, and had $0 contributions.
Maybe I over reacted. Would YOU say that the guy I put on my List is a "Leecher"?
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ratio 2000:0!
he's probably the luckiest guy in the world. :)
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I own around 350 games on steam, and it says that I paid around $1800 USD, for my ENTIRE collection!!
This guy opened an account back whenever Steam Gifts 1st started up, and he has an Account that's more Valuable then mine, just from winning GA's!
While I admit that it's impressive, it also means that the people who actually contributed GA's got $2000 USD less prizes, because this guy has just been scraping the bottom of the barrel for a number of years.
Normally I don't Blacklist some one for their win/lose ratio, but I do Whitelist people who have Signifigantly more contributions then Wins.
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he/she has done an impressive work
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Did he at least play the games? I know I lost it when I came across somebody who had won over 200 games and gifted only 1 piece of cheap DLC. And I'd have blacklisted him anyway but it was only when I saw that he only played Dota 2 (2400 hours) and 5 other other games (for a total of 6 hours) that I got really offended.
That was a 'leecher' by the way, if anyone wants to know my definition...
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As a 16 year old, nearly 17, who lives in a shit ass country, where there are no part time jobs for us, it really is hard to contribute.
Some people mentioning here the game count on steam vs contribution here. Well.. most of my games were either from bundle, or free. Only a few of them were actually bought with real money. Others were achieved through TF2, CS:GO tradings or giveaways for items etc..
I don't really have a definition for a leecher. But I guess if I had to settle for one, there are few definitions here that I like. And no, I don't blacklist leechers. I only blacklist people who are intentionally breaking the rules, and keep doing it, without feeling guilt for a second.
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And yet, you're level 3... which makes a point. It may be hard, but you have managed to contribute more than the majority.
I applaud you.
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Well I really am, somehow, not sure how. Nearly level 4 tho. But my contributions are nowhere near the amount I've won.
Thanks.
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Leecher:
Won over 30 GAs
Created 0
has over 500 games on his steam account, including bunch of AAA titles
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I am, by any sense, a leech. I do not GA, as bucks are slim, and I'm rather cheap. On principle, I refuse to attempt to game the system by GAing some tiny DLC or the Merry Payday 2 Christmas soundtrack. I have only ever won one game, out of the 50,000 copy Dwarves!? GA. I am unable to enter any leveled GAs, wherein my odds might be better. I don't even bother throwing in a thanks, but would personally thank whoever I do eventually win off of.
My personal definition of a leech would be anyone with the disingenuous goal of receiving more than they are giving away. As for BLing them, really, the level system provides an easy enough barrier to entry. Just set it to 1 or 2, most of the cheapskates will be unable to join.
Just my two cents.
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If I were to judge how worthy people are of winning based on their behaviour on SG:
Highest tier are those who win games and play them. I don't care how much they gifted and how much they won, if they gifted 0 games and won 200 and played (or at least installed and tried) these 200, they're a lot more deserving of winning than someone who gifted 500 games, won 200 and haven't played any of them.
Below that are people who won few games, again regardless of their gifting behaviour. Someone who won 5 games is more deserving of winning than someone who has won 100 games. (Given a similar gaming behaviour from the games won. If the winner of the 100 games played them, then the previous rule of course holds.)
Regarding the number of gifts, that depends on the gaming behaviour. People who gift a lot probably could buy the games they want, but on the other hand do deserve some credit for their generosity. Therefore if two people don't play their wins, the one who gifts more deserves to win more. If two people play their won games, and one doesn't gift a lot while another gifts expensive games, I'd lean towards the one who gifts less being more worthy of winning.
Lowest tier are those who don't play by the rules, in particular those who don't activate their wins. They should just be dealt with by Support, IMO.
By the way. the only rule I ever used (by participating in a group to that effect) was the number of wins one, and I've advocated for a while adding such a condition to SG. The first rule is something I'd never check, and I've never done a CV based giveaway, nor do I plan to.
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Yeah I just went through the games I won and looked at the links, only to find one of them had now blacklisted me. I think it's more to do with the fact I don't want many people on my friend's list and thus I was probably blacklisted for unfriending them. Nevertheless I do agree that winners should at least try to play the games that they win; something I will attempt to rectify in spite of the fact I don't get much time to play games anyway.
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I would label somebody a leecher only because they give less (or none) - maybe they can't buy games to give away. But when somebody has massive hundreds of games (3-4-5 etc) so they have some means to get games, yet they don't do any giveaways...maybe them. Rhought still could be exception
. Also low number of GAs with lots of exploited/free games - it looks like they want to get come CV to have more chances by level-restricted GAs, it's also a warning for me
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I definitely wouldn't blacklist someone for leeching, although i would avoid creating GAs that could target him/her. Blacklisting is strictly for people who constantly don't follow the rules, imho.
On the other hand, most leechers own a boundless stock of cheap arguments which could drive a sane person nuts. I mean, when you win 20-30-40 games, at least half of them drop steam cards which you can sell, you can buy steam gifts and donate them back. (#Fact). When your library consists of 20-30% AAA games, there's no f* way you can't buy and donate a $2 bundle. (#Fact). Also, there's no way you can be active in trades and have a long list of games to trade/sell (some of them are dupli-triple-quadruplicates!) but you claim you cannot afform a bunch of games for the community, while actively participating in GAs. (#Fact).
I strongly believe that there's no distinction between an online commnunity and a real flesh-and-blood one. And that is very reassuring, to the point that real life has a strange way to balance everything. ;)
Funny note: As a nerdy and strictly-for-fun(?) sideproject, I started sketching a math formula which calculates a "leecher" attribute for a specific user. It's like a point system with a long list of variables, still working how much every variable should weigh... Quite nerdy, as i've already admitted :p
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Some giveaways that are marked private could be public in reality. Like open for anybody reading some forum etc.
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To me, someone who is a leecher is someone who doesn't contribute to the "SG community" at all, wins and does not give anything back.
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probably been said by not- but not to be confused with a 'lecher'
lecher
noun
a lecherous man.
"a vile drunken lecher"
synonyms: lecherous man, libertine, womanizer, seducer, adulterer, debauchee, rake, roué, profligate, wanton, loose-liver, sensualist, sybarite, voluptuary, Don Juan, Casanova, Lothario, Romeo;
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Kudos to OP. I think pretty much the same.
This site is named SteamGifts, not SteamTrades for a reason.
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Inspired by http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/D5CPJ/blacklisting-botsleechers
I've seen tons of definition of "leecher", some of them are hilarious, some are just senseless...
according to you, what is a leecher ?
Let's discuss about the behavior of the random users X and Y.
X gifted 100 and received 150, is X a leecher ?
Y gifted 250 ONLY in private gift-exchange groups and received 200 (he won some public GA too), is Y a leecher ?
X has a script that posts a random thx-comment in every GA he joins, is X a leecher ?
Y sometimes post a random thx-comment, but if Y wins, he always posts a thx, is Y a leecher ?
X gifted 100 and received 200, is X a leecher ?
Y gifted 400 (Y is american\european but has gifted a lot of russian\brazilian non bundled stuff - a lot of IGN free games of the month - whatever; TL-DR Y has spent less money than X to reach 400) and received 300, is Y a leecher ?
X is 14 years old, has 5$/per-month, X gifted 50 and received 200, is X a leecher ?
Y is 30 years old, has a work, Y gifted 200 and received 200, is Y a leecher ?
TL;DR:
How do you judge people you don't know ? I mean, I'm aware that the world is dark and full of jerks but... things are not quite so simple always as black and white.
I have more than 100 users in my blacklist, (anyway most of them are scammers that don't even use SG) but I've never blacklisted someone just because "ZOMG he won 200 and gifted the ship !!!!" I cannot know what's going on in his life, probably he's a jerk, or maybe he can barely afford a PC, I don't see why I should blacklist him, we have levels for that.
I usually blacklist people who break rules or rude guys. Now, my profile will probably be inspected and blacklisted by someone, like I give a shit about that.
So... what is a leecher for you ? do you blacklist them ?
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