что конкретно тебе аргументировать, правила экономики? - так иди книги читай
лучше потерять 1 раз, чем терять всё время
стим хочет избавиться от сторонних продавцов, которые снижают продажи в стиме
глянь статистику продаж на распродажах и в остальное время. а потом подумай: где же пользователи покупают игры в остальное время
и если прикроют лавочку с гифтами - то и 90% сторонних магазинов можно будет прикрыть, а соответственно получать прибыть с продаж круглый год.
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немного не верно, стим хочет избавиться от нелегального вывода денег
вся цена скинов и шапок была подкреплена тем что на них можно было купить кучу гифтов и перепродать со скидкой 10-15% за реал
теперь же это сделать адски трудно, нельзя автоматизировать продажу и тп.
ломая вывод денег Гейб хочет нанести удар по рулеткам, ставкам на скинах
при этом он поднимает размер кошелька чтоб люди могли покупать дорогой шмот и платить Гейбу его моржу
Магазины перепродающие бандлы это никак не заденет
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а где ты прочитал о скинах и шапках?
и вообще, при чем тут магазины торгующие бандлами?
да и вообще о чем ты????
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Why don't you buy a Steam Wallet Code (Worldwide)?
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This was the last straw, to kill trading for good - whats left is now bundle and retail keys. (At least from the current looks of it gift trading has been/will be rendered pointless). Thanks volv - won't anyone tell me, that ACTUAL GIFTING shit in steam is a thing lol just buy them the god darn steam wallet code/card or even better gift the money in a way it isn't bound to "vidya-gaems-drm".
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You can gift to Russians and Brazilians as well. From what I understood.
And where ever else the prices are lower
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If gifting downwards has no restrictions then you'd be able to gift to RUS/BR but not get gifts from them while you can't gift to US/EU/JPN etc but be able to get gifts from them
EDIT: tried gifting something to you and I reached the payment screen so I guess you can gift downwards
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Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that the whole idea behind region locks?
This whole shit could easily have been resolved by implementing Region Locks on those areas with regional pricing but ROW gifts and then giving the added option to all regions to pay in US/EU prices for non-restricted copies.
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It was, but they made regional locks, but they are not the same as pricing.
Venezuela is SA locked, but US priced. Ukraine is CIS-RUS locked, but US priced. Sweden (?) is in EU but cheaper than Hungary for example... so the system already was a hot fucking mess, while essentially CIS is catered to THE russian and SA to THE brazilian and others got the lock but not the discounts.
Now we basically have price-locks inside the region locks. Just wonderful :|
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You can win from the US, mostly from the UK (for the next year or so, before the sterling decides to see if it can overtake the ruble's freefall from two years ago), and in some cases from Japan, Canada, and Australia. In extremely rare cases, even from Kiwiland, although normally they have lower prices than Norway. Norway, Japan, Canada, and NZ are the four countries who usually have the lowest ROW prices, but it can change from game to game. And in some cases, continental Europe can be the cheapest ROW by a large margin, meaning even us need to constantly monitor SteamDB now.
It will be a… mess to figure out, and always on a game-by-game basis.
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You misunderstood then, or weren't fully informed.
The cutoff appears to go in both directions.
Someone attempted to gift a game to someone in the US from EU and it told them they couldn't.
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I suspect that the lower NOK prices are due to what game prices were traditionally. The NOK has been stronger, and thus a game costing say 400 SEK would cost 350 NOK to make up for that. But going to SEK prices would likely be a bad thing, as a 50€ game would generally cost 500 SEK in the store. And these are also the prices we see on Origin.
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NOK - not a EU member > less taxes > cheaper steam prices.
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Gotta be one of the other dozen or more of applicable taxes steam passes on to its customers ... which one's - don't know.
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It's the "historical prices" tax exempt in the case of Norway, if my sources are to be believed. Basically, a relic from when the NOK was stronger. You can't just raise prices by a lot, or it will be perceived poorly, even if it "makes sense" in a case like this..
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I see - doesn't ring a bell, but would've been surprised if it were for other reasons than taxation.
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Valve always was a shitty company not caring about their customers at all - it is all about money. They don't even inform you about such changes, you need to use other media like SG. The only thing that changed over the years is the fact that Valve knows they now own a vast majority of the PC video game market and got an army of die-hard fanboys making it impossible to fight with such changes. We need to start the revolution right here, right now! Commies unite! :d
Edit: I find it amazing that some people praise this fat-valve-guy as a Jesus himself and for what? Selling games at a higher price than anyone else? It must be hard to survive with just 30% profit on every sold game by the way :d
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+1
People actually didn't agree with paid mods much enough thus they removed these. Not sure for how long but we are still free from them. I am sure if enough peopole done this again now for this change they would reverse it as well. Doesn't look like many people care in this case though :(
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They came for dumbphone users, but I had a smartphone so I didn't care.
They came for keyreviews, but I don't review, so I don't care.
They came for gifts but I don't buy those, so I don't care.
They came for keys, but I buy from the Steam store, so I don't care.
They came for something I liked... but I'm all alone now...
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Mostly because Steam did manage to break down the old distribution chain and it really was cheap as fuck compared to physical copies for many years. Then the tables turned and digital sales were so high that it adopted the same pricing policy, with ironically sometimes physical copies costing less now.
Also, Newell was the first who left a large company to pursue his own goals independently and it made him big. (The guys at id always had a publisher for them, even if they retained they creative independence, even against a control freak parent like Bethesda.)
What people like to forget that it was around a decade ago the last time when it was true.
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It is weird isn't it?
Picked up a physical copy of Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth 1-3 + all DLC for a mere $22.50.
The same games + DLC on Steam would have cost at least triple that at the time.
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I'm normally buying keys but I think this is a shitty move who will affect sales. Every day steam gets more and more restrictive and fanboyism seems to be okay with this. I'm guessing that some stores will be "destroyed" by this. Some vietnamese guy in reddit says his store will be affected by this shitty move.
I'm the only one who thinks this makes the reseller's site more and more visible and "right"? Valve should be encouraging their store, not fucking it.
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How would these stores be destroyed by this? This change could bring them more revenue and attention I think since people will start looking for alternatives to buy games
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Prudence is always a smart thing to follow, that is for sure.:)
I will say that I had a giveaway end a little while ago, and I sent the gift a couple of hours ago. It was a gift that was already in my Inventory, and I was able to send it to the winner without any issues at all. (From Canada to Germany)
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I fucking knew it! I was always saying it that steam would do that. I was 100% sure. They want to slowly destroy trading. -_- But traders will prevail! :P
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I also always buy steam gifts. Now what will I give away? xD
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I have plenty of steam money, but almost zero of other kinds of e-money. So, that'll be almost impossible, except if I trade my cs:go/tf2 keys for steam keys, but that'll be risky.
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Another user on previous page says it's no more possible to gift a game from EU to US because of price difference between regions.
So it would affect even ROW zone.
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It's not that simple. Steam sales come and go. In order to do what you said, you must make fast giveaways during the time of the sales.
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This can destroy both traders and people that give away games. :/
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we're really gonna need to alter the site rules and allow deletions without permission if a re-roll occurs. first winner would be the only person that is allowed to not give permission for a removal of GA. and re-roll permission would end up additionally being a removal of GA permission if the gifter chooses.
imo that'd be the only way this site can continue to operate efficiently and giveaway actual steam gifts.
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Still wrong. The winner has 7 days to accept a gift. What if the sales have a duration of less than 7 days? :P
I know that this would happen at some point, but I'm still mad as f@ck. I used to get money by trading and most of my giveaways were exclusively steam gifts. Now, I just can't give away games anymore. It'll be so risky. :/
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Valve thinks they'll get more money, but they won't. They'll lose a big bunch of money by grey markets and piracy. Let's hope this will bring some sense to their rotten brains. >:(
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yeah, this was the worst move ever from them.. sure there was a little fuss when regionlocks happened, and a bit of fuss over the 2hour idletime before cards drop, but this change is an extreme issue really. they just took their company backwards over a decade.
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I expected it. I could see the pattern since a long time ago. They're slowly trying to kill traders. Since they implemented region locks, I knew what would their next moves be. In the future, they'll try to find a way to do something about steam keys, since they're cheaper than steam gifts. Mark my words. ;) They were usually trying to find an excuse though, like "safety" and other shit. But now, they didn't even bother to find an excuse. xD
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The 7 days to accept thing will have to be removed. A giveaway creator should specify how long the winner has to accept the gift, with a minimum of 1 day. That way all giveaway entrants will know in advance how fast they need to be (and not enter if they can't do it), and giveaway creators will be able to make sure their giveaway is accepted before the sale ends.
And if the winner doesn't accept within the time limit, the creator should be allowed to delete the giveaway.
That's the only way I can think of that will work
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1 day? That's a bit hard to do, especially if people autojoin giveaways (who cares though about them?) or if they're too busy with real life (well, we care about them). :P
But anyway, changes have to come to steamgifts too. Maybe expand beyond steam then? Maybe it'll be easy to do this?
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Well, 1 day would be the minimum for really short sales. I assume most people would do longer. And maybe add a big red warning on the main page to such giveaways - "Only 1 day to accept!" or something.
The week thing will surely have to go though, since sales rarely last that long. It's obviously not ideal but we're gonna have to adapt if we want this community to survive
I'll make a proper suggestion post about this later I guess
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Why not expand to gog, even origin and uplay too? It'll be really hard to survive by supporting the steam client exclusively. People mostly give away bundle keys though, so there will still be steam giveaways, but it'll still have a problem surviving. And yeah, please make some suggestions. ;)
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I know, but they should find a way to connect their accounts here somehow, that's what I'm saying.
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I'm really curious as to what Steam's reasoning behind this is. Surely not a clever business decision.
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Maybe they think now users are blocked on steam and forced to buy at shitty discount during sales ?
After region-lock move, the discount % was already no more what it was before, i wonder what it will look like now.
"Buy now and save 20% on ... !!!"
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They want more money. They won't get them though, because people will turn into grey markets and piracy.
They think that, by putting more obstacles, people will still "love" steam and keep buying games from them, even with full price.
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This is likely the first step to kill grey markets. The next step will be to do something about the keys. According to TB's video from his visit to Valve they will be capping the use of key redemption or changing how that works. That, coupled with this, 100% eliminates G2A on Steam.
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Don't look directly into his eyes. All you'll see i--- all glory to Lord Gaben, here's my wallet, no I don't need anything in return.
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Bad news, but this thing is bigger.
System of storing gifts in inventories was creating a situation, when each new 'historical minimum' for the games was bounding (marginally) the lowest market prices because of creating a large supply of cheap game copies in inventories of resellers, thus starting a 'slow bomb' of making lower profits for these discounted games from this moment of time and forever. For Steam and Devs, but not necessarily for users.
What I mean by this - for example if a game was ever sold with discount 80%, there were certainly numerous resellers who got the game copies for future reselling with some income against this new price. Numerous offers of these cheap copies forever pin the market price to a new, lower levels, even if this supply is not unlimited, as 'damage is done'. Anyway, cheap copies (may) end up in libraries of users who would have bought the game paying much more, if there wouldn't exist this supply. Difference in price would bring profit not to some resellers, but to Steam (And devs, but of course Steam is barely playing here a role of justice warrior, they get cut. However if devs will be in loss too much they will not want to work with Steam).
Moreover, for Steam there is only a risk of Not making expected levels of profit in the future. There is barely a question of existence when you don't produce anything and get a quite huge cuts. For the game developers it is much more acute question: Do they earn enough for their work to survive and continue, or their games lose market price and just won't bring much money anymore, [while somebody keep profiting, selling games for still higher price]?
As a result, all of this jeopardizes the whole idea of sales in store - Steam surely cuts some profits buy selling a lot of cheap copies instantly, when setting new historical minima, but then they can forget of doing much profit until the next, bigger sale. Because of previous system, they not only caged themselves in getting most of profits during the sales (which is not a healthy model for any business, as they lose who knows how much potential profit), but their actions put game developers and publishers in loss because of dropping global market prices for their games forever, to Steam historical minima (that is why some devs try to avoid Steam or try not to agree on low sale prices, but this is not a solution as most of users will likely just buy another, cheaper games), and of course they are accountable for existing of a huge grey market (Trade of Steam valuables outside of Steam, which harms users as they are taking risks, devs and store as they don't get profit from it, and benefits obviously only resellers. It is almost a piracy, which was let to be).
No wonder they want to revert, but there is always a chance that they will make it only worse. Somebody will always find exploits.
I mean, people are greedy. Everybody is simply and lowly greedy. Users will use grey markets as long as they can save a cent and will get scummed by greedy resellers (which are ultimately unneeded and exist because of users' greed or problems/restrictions created by greedy stores), official stores (especially of reselling nature) are only thinking of how to make profits from any interaction with them, a lot of devs and publishers last years are a greedy abominations who either create scum products to get easy buck from fools, or who try to sell their games overpriced not providing at the same time corresponding quality/support.
For now these news completely harm users who were buying presents for future gifting or giveaways; but frankly speaking gifters are so rare oddities that Steam wouldn't give a F, and if somebody truly wants to give a gift, they can find a way - by paying more, for example! "Yeah, let's make extra on these foolish freaks, gifters, why not. Let's exploit these alien generous motives and make them pay more straight to us, and not necessarily the cheap price."
Next natural steps include restricting small devs to generate steam keys as they please, because this is also a feature that decreases the market prices and someone else is getting profit with no cut for steam (dev, bundle sites, resellers etc.)
We will certainly see here less unbundled good games, that were discounted on Steam. But this is not the end as there is so many retailers.
Taking wrong measures would only harm Steam. I wish greed to eventually backfire, but speaking of Steam, there is too much money already invested by people all around the world. Would be disastrous if they went bankrupt at some point, for example. Who would maintain everything we bought? Meh, if only everything in the world was managed by clever and honest people, this would be a paradise T_T
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too long 3--- who's going to read this
read between the lines - to my understanding the average user (the 95%+)
will buy a bucket of shit, if thats the official shit bucket store
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i don't, not for steam related content - rather find out the hard way lol .i.
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You are genuinely right!
But 'this' is not meant for every reader! I expect anyway quite a rare type of monsterinterlocutor, and appreciate others being 'filtered out'.
About bucket - it is easy to say that everyone (e.g. average user) is a fool, but this is not a discussion. Moreover, this is often said by these same people who may be fools, but in some another aspect. "Enough Stupidity in Every Wise Man", true. And in a not so wise.. plenty ;3
I just try to understand the processes I see. I noticed a fundamental problem with cheap copies provoking grey market years before, and wondered how they are [not] fighting it. To some extent I agree that this measure is a right direction of movement, but so much depends on what would be next.
Even fighting with piracy nowadays is a very hypocrite thing. We have 'global' prices and want to support developers.. but people are living under different governments, in different conditions.
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I see, unfortunately all the changes towards the current state haven't been a bother for most users as they don't even care or made use of those features. About the bucket is just a reference ... you can't care and be best informed about everything. If i'd buy a car i'd rather get it straight from the manufacturer or their official partners than from some greasy salesman - disregarding minor price differences. As for games i think the attitude is even more easy-going - "ah right thats teh gaems-shoppe-steam/origin here i buy ze games" ... "wait there's greasy-salesman-G2A ouf curse i buyz". The way its going is that all the crap in steam becomes irrelevant and worthless sooner than later. Much like downloading an entire library of a game-system for emulators.
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Don't let the others bother you, I read it. But your point is made simply because we keep track of pricing. Unlike food,
digital distribution doesn't go bad and people can always wait until the price hits a new historical low, or matches the old one.
IsThereAnyDeal and SteamDB.info would have to shut down permanently or be forced to if Valve was truly intent on making money.
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There are other ways to deal with this though. They could, for example, let you store gifts for a maximum of a month. If they are not activated or gifted within the month, they're refunded. If you want to gift to a friend at a specific later date then gift scheduling will do the trick. Accepted gifts will automatically be activated.
Boom, no more reselling at a lower price forever, and gifting properly remains an option.
And that's just off the top of my head, without being a senior developer and one of the most successful gaming companies in the world
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Do they earn enough for their work to survive and continue, or their games lose market price and just won't bring much money anymore, [while somebody keep profiting, selling games for still higher price]?
Physical goods can be purchased and sold again. Digital goods are already restricted to not being re-sold after usage. Thus developers and Valve are already profiting by using account binding.
Regional pricing: the developers/publish may outsource work to lower the costs, but the players may not buy it from a region where it's cheaper?
I mean, I don't want to ruin any developer, especcially since I'm a programmer myself and I appreciate good work/artists, but other branches of industry also have to consider re-selling into their price building.
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Yes, binding of goods to account (a certain person) is not a fair move. Now everything in digital goods retailing has happened during last ten years or a bit more - too quickly; but in the future there will be more cases when person would want to leave licenses to somebody else, or inherit a license library from someone (in case of other's death for example, why not). This is easy for physical goods and rules for digital goods shall be changed in future.
But I wouldn't agree that it is a big money-maker. It is rather another quick measure against grey markets, which will need more consideration in future with growing demand.
About regional prising - there is more depth. People are working spending similar efforts and time, living in too different conditions, getting very different amount of money compared to each other worldwide. Anything 'global for the whole world' when it comes to prices is not fair (games, travel or healthcare worldwide - anything). If prices would be global, it would end in rich minority buyers' demand pushing prices higher than most of the poorer world can afford.
Isn't this insane? We would need a fair unite world government to fix this and it looks we are far away from any, but worldwide [profit] organisations are already everywhere; such a discrepancy
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Regarding regional:
I don't envy the lower prices in regions where the income is lower. But i think it's a hypocrisy of big companies enforcing regional pricing on one hand, but outsourcing to low-income regions for production/support and then blaming customers who want to use the advantages of globalization, too.
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This could have been circumvented at many other ways. Like disabling gift purchase over a certain percentage of a discount. Time-limiting gift purchases and auto-refund them after a given time.
Additionally, many games are sold at other stores in key format, where you can stock up on any amount of keys during sales.
No, this will reduce their ticket number stats so they can state their support has improved. It is obvious now that sales income is too low for them to really bother with this any more.
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You're 100% right. I think that this is just the first step to eliminate resellers and grey markets. There is no sense in doing that without changing how keys work. I'm willing to bet that's what they are gonna do next. According to TotalBiscuit they'll probably start capping the use of key redemption or changing how that works. That + this, 100% eliminates resellers and grey markets like G2A.
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each new 'historical minimum' for the games was bounding (marginally) the lowest market prices
Yes and no.
Good/popular games rebound easily. Only undesired junk loses value, and not from sales but mostly bundles. Basically nobody would buy that crap for any more either.
Also many resold units stem from boxed copies, nothing to do with Steam(-store) at all.
But very many never touch resellers or even authorized shops. Those who do are unlikely to give in to worse deals. The loss of revenue is mostly imagination.
It's those devs-of-crap who think their stuff is gold and they deserve billions who then blame everyone but themself and force that nonsense on us.
But yes, keys are next, road to full control aka consumer stranglehold ahead.
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https://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791457287600/announcements/detail/1301948399254001159
You can now only buy something directly for another steam user and if they decline, your money gets refunded.
"Steam Gifting will now be a system of direct exchange from gift buyer to gift receiver, and we will be retiring the Gift to E-mail and Gift to Inventory options."
"Note: Pre-existing gifts will be unaffected by this change."
here's a change.org petition created by another user in the thread,
https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporation-valve-please-bring-back-previous-gift-system-on-steam
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