I lost $60 (If the last giveaway get also no count) wtf O.o
Because i got 6 Keys (3x CM and 3x CM 1.5) from friends they have the games and no other friend want them -.-"
Really stupid in my eyes ..... Sorry but i don't buy a bundle more then one time ... So as i see i have now to buy games on Steam (full price) to give them here because if i have a game from a bundle it is worthless to make some from here happy...
Only because some i** buy the bundle 100 times to farm CV..........THX F***
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Yeah where are the difference between i bought the games on steam and an Bundle?
If i had bought the games on steam and don't get the keys from friend, from where did SG know this? ;)
This is stupid if someone buy the games on steam at the time if a bundle have the game in it. Or other way if there is a steam Sale like the Summer sale and many people buy then indie game to make other people happy did they also don't get the CV because someone abuse it?
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But you didn't buy the games. You didn't even the buy the bundle so you lost nothing. Stop being a cry baby.
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"So as i see i have now to buy games on Steam (full price) to give them here because if i have a game from a bundle it is worthless to make some from here happy..."
Who said that users aren't happy about bundle games they win and you NEED to buy games at full price to make other people happy? I am happy about every game I win even if it was bundled or whatever.
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my sentence structure is somewhat confusing because my english is bad :P
But yea i call people who gave away Crazy Machines 100 times f**s because it is a good game series andif i have some keys from friends then i give them away. So now i am one of the crying babys (someone called us) because i am sad i lose CV which i need to enter some giveaways with games i am interessted and there are no other giveaways with this game.
So from now i don't make any giveaway from bundles and post the keys here in the forum and people can grap them if they have the game or not.
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Stahp crying people. Shouldn't have been trying to TRICK the system, ha!
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How would it be considered a "trick"? The rules allowed full value for it, so it was following the rules. Retroactively changing the rules means people will forever be unsure if following the rules right now will turn out to not be so in the future when the rules are change and applied to the past.
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This is my concern about this too. Whats next? Any good sale from greenman, amazon or even steam itself makes the list? This is pretty shady.
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It was easy to see some people were just using those games to boost their CV to enter better giveaways. And it's not fair to people who actually paid very much for the games they gave away. Look at this from this point.
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It was entirely fair. You had the exact same opportunity to buy CM as they did. They had no advantage over you. You just chose to purchase different games at different amounts. By your logic it was unfair of you to purchase any games that were 75% off or on sale by any degree because other users paid full price for the games they gave away.
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There was really someone with 2500$ CV from CM oO? I've seen a 1000$ guy but almost three times this!? Crazy.
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Look up closed giveaways for Crazy Machines, where the person is giving away 10 copies in one go. Then look at their giveaway history. There are a bunch of members that were over $2,000 in CV from mostly this.
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I wouldn't be so sure. These aren't proactive changes to the system, just reactions to put reality in line with it.
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its totally off topic but still : make less private giveaways and more normal ones !!
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Private GA's and puzzles are awesome. But yeah some puzzles are ridiculous.
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The only thing it prooves is that there's someone that shares your opinion, it in no way means that everyone, or even majority agrees with that.
Theres a bunch of ppl that seems to in fact have time to get betetr chances to win a GA.
Again - you don't like puzzles - nobody's forcing you to play them, you have plenty of other ways to win games. I am not forcing you to do anything - you're the one telling that ppl should stop making puzzles.
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I didn't say I don't like all puzzles. I said the asinine ones. Ones that no one can answer, which just waste everyone's time. If you want clarification, next time ask for it instead of going around cursing and starting confrontations.
And who forced anyone to do anything? I can't make you stop going around harassing anyone, just as you can't tell me what to do, just as I can't make anyone stop making puzzles that no one can solve.
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It's fun finding puzzles, even though I have to google my way through most of them. Not a big fan of the mind-reading type, but sometimes a puzzle only looks like it's one of those. Often I'm overlooking a hint, or it's alluding to something I've never heard of. Tough luck for me, but the people who "get it" have a better chance... :)
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Bump for profile, in case I forgot to do it before... :)
The only downside I can see to this, the crazy machines are actually pretty good games but now nobody will give them away... :(
Same thing with that Red Orchestra & Darksiders bundle, for a minute I was thinking nooooo my precious cv disappeared, but then I remembered - they were good games, and now some people got a chance to play them for free. Life is too short to worry about disappearing contributor value... :)
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So... there are still people who don't have Darksiders? IMPOSSIBRU!
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I was talking about the first one. I don't have the second one either. I'm waiting for the discount of Franchise pack with all DLC's :)
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I'll probably buy some copies of CM to give away next time I can afford to. Crazy Machines is a lot of fun, and would make a great gift to give out to some of my favorite groups. Same with a lot of other bundled games. I've gotten to the point where I no longer get contributor value for them, but I'll still be giving more of 'em away. I even have a couple of bundle games ready to be gifted out pretty soon. ^^
I really couldn't care less about contributor value. At best it gives me a very small boost in my win percentage, which isn't anything compared to the giveaway groups that I'm a member of. And giving away fun games is far more important to me.
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This way of taking action seems to be par for the course on SG. Unpredictable and intransparent. Causes more problems than it solves, but hey, it's all to keep the elite happy, isn't it?
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Hurray! This deserves some celebratory giveaways!
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I understand fully the frustration that it was not considered a bundle game from the day the 95% discount started. I was surprised to find out it was not considered a bundle game initially, given that it's sold at that discount on a site that started off it's existence as a bundle seller.
However, my issue with the application of the decision now is that it was applied retroactively after this much time had passed. Like it or not, given the contribution value system, members will always be influenced to buy games that give them a higher CV than those that give less. It could be by Steam sales, Amazon keys, Steam coupons, various game stores (GG, GMG, GF, et cetera) that have similar sales to Steam's own, buying 4 packs of games, preordering for discounts/free copies of other games, and many other examples.
This brings a few questions to mind:
1 - If you change the rules regarding a bundled game after it was expressly counted as non-bundle value for 6 months, what confidence does anyone have that other non-bundle games they give away today or in the past will not arbitrarily be devalued at some point in the future and their CV be negatively impacted. This discourages people from posting giveaways of all kinds, both bundle and non-bundle games, due to the uncertainty of their sustained CV.
2 - What are the guidelines for what will and won't be put on the bundle games list? Amazon has on a number of occasions sold packages of game keys for what amounted to 90+% discount off of CV. Why weren't/aren't those considered bundle games? Steam has issued 90% off coupons a few times (or stacked coupons on top of sales for a total of 90+% off CV), but those games are not considered bundle value.
3 - For the purists I've seen saying that anything that has ever been on sale anywhere at any % off should be considered bundle games, that would massively curtail the # of giveaways on the site because just about everything in the Steam library has been available at some form of discount at some point in time either on Steam or some other site. Even if you did establish this zero tolerance on games that have been on sale at some point, what about copies of games that people can get completely free when they pre-ordered another game (TL, Poker Night, Bioshock, Magicka, The Ship, and many more)? Would those then automatically be counted as bundle value as well? They were 100% off after all. How would you know someone didn't win the game key at a LAN party or get it as a promotion at a convention? It seems as though this form of all or nothing CV rule would be even more hugely time consuming for the site admins/mods/support, still not catch every giveaway that was not purchased at full price, and only really serve to decrease the number of giveaways created.
Ultimately it's the site owners decision as to what they do with the site, because...well...it's their site and thus theirs to do with as they see fit, but users discussing the decision in the forum I'd assume isn't a problem (unless people of course get obscene and/or personal about it).
Begin firing away if you like or feel compelled to do so.
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Many of your questions have been asked numerous times before. I have yet to see any satisfactory replies or even reactions.
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That's fine. Maybe someone would like to discuss it now though. Even if it's not an admin/mod (as I wouldn't expect they'd have time to anyway), I'm sure there are some folks that wouldn't mind talking about it like adults.
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Don't misunderstand. I've been one of the people who asked some of the questions. The reactions have been... unsatisfactory, to say the least. I am a bit disenchanted with this community and the way admins are 'handling' issues and feedback. Right now I'm just sticking around to see if anything will actually change.
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I ask also the question how Steamgifts see if the game comes from a bundle or if i bought it directly on steam. Link
The answer was: "But you didn't buy the games. You didn't even the buy the bundle so you lost nothing. Stop being a cry baby."
Because i got 3x CM and 3x CM 1.5 from friends they have the games and no other friend want it. So they say here you can have it to give it away on this site.
Should i say no because they are from a bundle?
Who whould say no in this situation?
You never get an answer to your question but be sure in the future every game which was in a bundle will bundled so you will see here less games as before.
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Thats what i say you never get an answer you want you get only answers from **** like him/her who think they are great and rich and get buy all the games they want to give them away. But if they are in the situation like someone self they cry more then other people ;)
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But from where did SG know at the time how i buy or not buy the games?
I can also buy them now on Steam and then? (mentally)
Did i get one CV for them? NO I WILL NEVER SEE ONE CV!
Thats the point Steamgifts can not differ between Steam and a Bundle so they bash all user in one pot
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You still get CV up to $30. If you give away non-bundled games to the tune of 80% or more of your total, you get full CV for CM.
SG may not know how or when you bought the game, but it knows when you make the giveaway. Only giveaways after a game features in a bundle will have bundle status. If you want to make sure you get full CV for a game you didn't buy after a bundle, just make your giveaway early.
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I have GA games here some from my inventory (not keys) the day before a bundle is live and I didnt get credit
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Well if thats the case that sucks. I never opened a ticket about it because well its just one game. I saw this game was gonna be in a bundle and I listed it before that. Ended before as well. Gift was given in inventory from a game I purchased directly in steam in Dec.
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Who are you that you can say what i do or not? You don't know me so please be quiet if you don't know who i am...
I give away games if i want....Also i gave non bundles games but wait for you all games must be bundle games or you are blind idk because if you look in my profile you will see that i do not give away only bundle games....
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One simple difference between a bundle and a pack of games is this:
Afaik reading through the whole thread, all the unsatisfied users are the ones tha gave away lots of copies of CM. Crazy, right?
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There are also a lot of bundles with a minimum ~5 bucks price tag, so at least these bundles are very similar to packs.
I don't get how the duration of an offer matters, most packs are on sale for a few days up to a week, most bundles up to two weeks.
Ofc the THQ bundle was more of a steal than Amazon's THQ pack, but for example a few weeks ago there was a pack of Spec Ops and The Darkness II for $4 at Gamefly. Compare that to the CM pack and the difference in CV in relation to the price isn't that much anymore.
What I really don't get is that so many people bash the guys who gave away a ton of CM. They still gave away tons of (good) games for no immediate return! If you don't like them getting into the 2k CV giveaways, then just create a group for all the guys that have given away that much and don't let the guys in who "gamed" the system. If you look at the numbers of entrants for those giveaways, that group should be in the low three-figure range.
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I don't get what you are trying to say. If your message is as simple as "because one of them gives you full CV while the other doesn't", then what are you trying to say? Very few people argue that the bundle system is bad at its core, just that there is no line drawn. To do this move retroactively after such a long time after saying they are not bundle games over and over is just insane und random.
A much better question for you:
Why does someone who only gives away games in groups have such a strong opinion about things that don't really concern him and even goes so far as saying "I now regained trust in the system!"?
Edit: I agree that a lot of people including me are butthurt because of this move. But why is that worse than people getting butthurt because someone else got to the same amount of CV while paying much less? Bottom line: Giving away games is good, doesn't matter which ones. Especially since there is no immediate benefit for giving away games.
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I'm not butthurt, if I were so I would have bought some copies of that game, or Killing floor indie weekly while it wasn't on the bundle list.
My point is that this is a community, there's the need of a balance. People that giveaway exploited games, enter in dev giveaways and then don't redeem their keys, regifters, etc... aren't much appreciated. I know what I'm saying 'cuz I was banned long ago for winning multiple copies of Dota. But after that I redeemed myself and started contributing.
As you have already done, I'm a bundle man. I don't get almost any cv for them, but that doesn't stop me. Why? Because I don't need 3 extra copies of Postal, Victoria 2 or whatever. It's true that I belong to many giveaway groups, what's wrong with that?. Being part of groups is one of the ways of increasing winning odds, as resolving puzzles is, or taking part on the forums, etc. Do you wanna say that I've no right to complain about cv boosters just because all my giveaways are for groups? Quite logical this example of democracy.
PS: Sorry for every grammar mistake in the text. I hope someone will be able to understand it (in my spanish head it sounds quite correct) ;)
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Ofc there is nothing wrong with participating in many groups, private giveaways, etc.. My point is that it's hypocritical to feel so strongly about an issue which almost solely concerns the "open" giveaway world, when you mainly participate in group giveaways.
Like I said before, the problem isn't that there are games which are considered exploited, but how and especially when the decision is made that a game is exploited.
Also, a lot of people now are very condescending with a "deal with it"-attitude when they were the ones who couldn't stop whining when the mods still said "Crazy Machines is not an exploited game, deal with it!"
The result of that is that the regulars are pleased while new or not very active users get alienated. Simple solution would have been to announce "From today on, CM is considered a bundle game, so that there is no exploitation from today on."
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I don't get why you say that either new users or not active get alienated.
When Killing Floor, Red Orchestra 2 Goty, Red Faction Guerrilla, and some others (mainly from HIB Weekly) were added to the list retroactively (not sure about the correct english word) there were complains but users really knew that this might happen.
The difference, and the origin of all problems around here, between Galastore "sales" and HIB weekly bundle was that they only needed two weeks to add the second one to the bundle list, not 3 months.
PS: Something that I'm proud of is that thanks to me, you're participating more in the forum ;)
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I'm one of the guys who only posts when they feel, that they really have something important to say ;) So you can't know this, but I know the HIB Weekly story pretty well.
At first (Bastion) the mods said "No bundle", then (Darksiders bundle) they said "we don't like this and might change it in the future, but still no bundle for now" and finally one day after the last one (Killing Floor) started they changed it, which is totally fair, because their reasoning was transparent.
In contrast to that, they said time and time again, that they won't consider the CM pack as exploited games, only to change it now (after months!!) without a warning or announcing it. That's why a lot of users now feel, that they handled this issue very poorly.
As for alienating new and not very active users: Imagine someone who visits this site once a week finding out, that his CV has dropped and he doesn't know why. He will complain and be very unhappy and I think we can at least agree, that he isn't completely unjustified in doing so. And if the regulars' reaction basically consists of "Deal with it!", then this guy won't be a happy member of this community ;)
Edit: One more thought: People, who bought a lot of CM packs are considered pariahs because they gamed the system and got CV for little money... and yet people can have blacklists and are allowed to reroll the giveaway when someone won who once upon a time said sth the gifter didn't like. Wait, what?!?
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At least blacklist are just for private and small groups. So if they want to give away games in their own groups, or puzzles, or whatever, they can set the rules (if admins allow them).
You're right with the announcing and transparent thing, but in a community of over 50.000 active members (those who enter everyday), it must be quite complicate to carry all the things on. In an perfect world Admins would have to worry just about server and stuff like that, but the real thing is that they spend much more time answering support tickets and chasing "bad" users. Sad, but it's true.
About new users and that, you're right again. But I really want to think that no all SG users are here just for the free games, maybe some also want to chat and socialize. Maybe... hahahha
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"When Killing Floor, Red Orchestra 2 Goty, Red Faction Guerrilla, and some others (mainly from HIB Weekly) were added to the list retroactively..."
Again, a faulty comparison here. The Humble Bundles have always been added to the bundle list so there was no reasonable expectation that you'd be able to get full CV from that bundle. CM on the other hand was not added to the bundle list for 6 months and the admins/mods explicitly stated that it was not a bundle game. So it was reasonable to expect that, since they said you'd get full CV for it...you'd get full CV for it.
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"People that giveaway exploited games, enter in dev giveaways and then don't redeem their keys, regifters, etc"
That's a faulty comparison. Getting full CV for CM was not against the rules. Regifting and not redeeming keys is against the rules.
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Because if it costs less and you rules said you got the same amount of credit for it...it's fiscally smarter.
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"One simple difference between..."
We're not talking about the THQ bundle. We're talking about CM. By your differentiation the CM keys would be considered a pack because the IndieGalaStore (retailer) set the price. It was not pay whatever you want.
"all the unsatisfied users are the ones tha gave away lots of copies of CM."
Of course they're unsatisfied. They were abiding by the rules and their CV was negatively impacted despite such. That sounds pretty understandable. If the rules said there was some other game that could be bought at 95% discount and counted for full CV and you game some away, it's entirely reasonable to expect that you'd receive full CV for it.
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While I'm happy for the change, I have no hate for the people who were doing this. Finding loopholes in the system is perversely smart, so there's an element of admiration. They benefited for a while and now they don't. Order is restored. No need to rub it in their faces.
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The main problem, and others have said it, is that you never know what might get bundled next. I'm sure lots of people never expected to see all those THQ games end up in bundles. And forget indie games all together. They are the most likely to get bundled. Anyone could buy a bunch of copies of a new indie game for $20 a pop from Steam, only for it to show up in Humble Bundle or Indie Gala and now their giveaways are worthless months down the road. There shouldn't be any retroactive CV decreases. If SG wants to approach bundles this way, then they should be more on top of the bundles. It's not that hard to keep up with the bundles. Indie Gala and Humble Bundle start on Tuesdays. SG could just check them on those days and make adjustments immediately rather than months later.
We all know a majority of games that are given away are discounted whether its Steam sales, coupons, promos with graphics cards, pre-order bonuses, whatever. Amazon has bundles at crazy discounts that SG doesn't seem to care about. Bioshock 1 and 2 are so devalued at this point from cheap bundles on Amazon and Gamefly + being giveaways with Infinite purchase, but they aren't on the bundle list. Indie bundles from the usual outlets lose CV but games bundled at major retailers don't? It's not a consistent system really.
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The bundle rules only apply to giveaways made after the game went in a bundle.
Example: all THQ giveaway made before Humble THQ bundle shouldn't be affected by the bundle rules. All THQ giveaways for games that featured in the bundle made after the bundle started are subject to bundle rules.
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The "real" bundles (IndieGale, Humble Bundle etc) are updated quite fast as it is. These are not the problem; also people know for certain that these will be added to the bundle list so no surprises here.
The other part, Amazon etc, is much more complicated - where to draw the line? And what stores to use?
And as others have said; if you give away something today that becomes available in a bundle next week, your cv will not be affected.
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I gave away dugeons dark lord as a gift here in a GA from my inventory the day before it was available from groupies. I still didnt get "credit" for it.
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Seems unfair. I know it's maybe right but it's more a deal then a bundle. I know that it can't be set as bundle directly but in my opinion this really is too late. They shouldn't change CV in anyway once there always there, Ofc in there is a new bundle it could take a while but this SG is really too late.
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like i read in this topic somewhere.
If Gamefly puts up a deal again for 4$ to get Spec Ops + Darkness 2 or any other similar deals.
Now you have to put all those deals on the bundle list otherwise it is not fair at all.
also all games which can be obtained with -90% Coupons.
and if you go that logic to the end in some time all steam games are on bundle list because there is always a deal at sometime for a game.
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Deals like that most people buy for themselves, and if they don't they tend to be good games. Not to mention the crazy machines deal has been around THREE times and the bundle has lasted ages each time. Most retailers would run out of keys for games like Darkness 2 and Spec Ops, but Indie Gala have worked out how well it sells and have tons and tons of keys (seemingly)
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You need to give the game , and the winner need to mark as recived:)
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Why not just report and ban/delete giveaway cv those very few that are clearly abusing the system for huge gains? and leave the rest those are kindly passing on their spare keys/gifts?
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Not sure I see your point? People here seem to take a lot of time noticing those that are abusing the system and when see something that appears to be abusing the system for huge gains its only a click away to report...?
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doesn't have to be ban, could delete the cv for those.
Just seems this system gets very complex and causes lot of frustration on these forums when there's a report system available to report anyone so seriously 'abusing' the system.
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still - punish them and report them for what? I may hate what they do, but as long as CM wasn't on bundle list and they had to pay (even a little, but still) for it so it's not "exploited" game there's nothin "legally" wrong in what they're doing. Morally/ethically wrong yes - but you cannot punish someone for things you find ethically offensive.
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Rules have been changed retroactively now so they have been punished for something they thought at time wasn't 'legally' wrong.
But I see what your saying.
I suppose the report method's hardly better than everyone complaining on the forum over a particular loophole and it being closed retroactively.
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Rules haven't been change - still the same rules are applied to all bundle games, and one of the rules is that when game is added to the list it always act retroactively up to the point in time this game became a part of a bundle.
I'll just quote wbarton here:
No. They were bundle games. They just weren't on the bundle list yet. Nobody gave away tons of these games before they were available for next to nothing. They tried to exploit a loophole that common sense should have told them was going to be closed. It's just another example of the fact that giving away games purely to raise your value is stupid and a terrible investment. I have a hard time pitying stupid people, especially when their problems stem from trying to do something sleazy.
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This whole contribution thing should be forget now. The system not works at all. Reaction time is always slow, and they just cannot follow all the sales from around the world. Farmers won't try to take advantages and those who bought a game and it's later on goes to a bundle won't feel bad when giving away. All should go back what it was originally about: generosity. If any want a special giveaway there are many private groups to do those. Sry for my English!
p.s: Till it happens i refuse to give away my dozens of unwanted bundled games. Ppl here are all fighting about virtual money now and that's just plain sad.
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I think the cv system is both a blessing and a curse. I'm 99.9% sure you would see far, far less giveaways if there was no cv system in place. Of course ideally people gift games out of generosity, and I guess many people do just that, but the majority of people around here does care about getting contributor value to increase their chances of winning games. If you get nothing for gifting games in return then many people would simply go to Steamtrades instead of gifting their games. I don't have a problem with that attitude and tbh I never had a problem with CM giveaways either. 90% deals happen all the time and CM is not a bad game. So what's wrong with that? What about all those people who bought Forge with a 75% off coupon for example? They paid a few cents per copy (far better cv/real money ratio than CM) and get 20$ cv for each. Oh no! All that matters to me is that Forge looks like a nice game and I'm happy if people decide to gift it, whatever reasons they may have for it. Evil people gift crap games only because the games may have a good cv/money ratio, but as long as you gift good games I don't mind whether it's a bundle game or whether it gives you 1000$ cv.
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What is a "good game"?
In my opinion CM is a very good game. I remember (and I played) games from Incredible Machine series.
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Yes, that's why I said I never had a problem with CM giveaways. CM is old, but it's still a very good game if you like puzzle games. And that's why I personally never had a problem with those giveaways. If people want to spend 10$ to gift 20 copies of CM/CM 1.5 then I don't see anything wrong with it. There are a lot of other, often worse games that give you 100$ cv for 10 bucks. The only difference is that you can buy CM all the time, while other games need to be on sale first and are only available for a limited time (see Forge madness that happened during the last week, with the coupon you got one Forge copy from a 4-pack worth 20$ cv for ~1$ if I'm not mistaken).
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I just logged in today and checked my profile, now I have ZERO dollars contributor value from CM, WTF SG!
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