Do you blacklist people?
i got blacklisted by probably the quarter of the users on this site. I used to say a simple thank you probably thats why..... People get offended if i say thank you? Idont get it. If i make a giveaway i feel good when somebody say something. I rather have a bit negative feeling about people who join but doesnt comment but still wont blacklist anyone. They will say thank you anyways when i give them the gift. The only thing i did was making a giveaway of a free game but somebody on the giveaway comments warned me and then i removed the giveaway.
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Yes, of course the OP is absolutelly right. No point in denying that.
This site has always had a pretty hostile community, so some unjustified blacklisting is bound to happen. But hey, if it's what people wanted, it's what they get.
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A pretty hostile community? I wouldn't say that.
All the discussions I've participated in, where there were opposing views, were, for the vast part, really friendly and polite and those few who weren't polite were either ignored by everyone and left on their own or got too angry to make any sense and left.
Maybe it was just my good luck?
I do hate impolite discussions.
That's not to say that I haven't noticed some people blacklisting for, what seemed to me, no real reason, but I guess you'll always have some of that in a community this big; especially when there are no rules regulating blacklisting.
Then again, it's not up to me to decide what could have offended or hurt someone so I'm trying not to have strong feelings about those occurrences.
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I would agree with this. Most people come across as friendly and erudite / intellectual. I mean that, as in, people write normal posts, not 'k' or 'well i disagree u nub'.
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I would say you have been 'friendly and erudite / intellectual' - the latter, certainly so - but apparently people found you to be unfriendly in that topic where I only read half of the first page, so, personally, I'd definitely say yes, but I have seen a few people complaining and haven't read those posts.
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I have admittedly been somewhat harsh toward a couple in this thread, though given the context of those instances, I'd like to think they're understandable (if not justified). Given that this entire thread has been constructed over the course of a single day and I have been entertaining the conversations of over a dozen people for hours, it may wear on me a bit.
You'll probably come across a small handful of times where I wasn't the most polite, and I'm sorry for that. I really am trying to keep a level head when people are mocking me and telling me to go drown in my sleep, though.
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I haven't really read all of the posts here so I couldn't say apart from what I gathered from your opening post.
Keeping that in mind, I always enjoy seeing someone express his/her opinion in a polite manner while accepting that his/her opinion is not the ultimate and the only correct one.
I can understand the concerns you've expressed but I hope you can find it in your heart to put some faith in the community- the majority is (as far as I've witnessed) pretty cool :)
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I do have faith in the community, but the harassment I've received in this thread has been thoroughly disheartening. Hopefully these vocals are a minority and I'm just an unlucky fellow because if not, I'm seriously concerned that there are some exigent issues polluting the health of this community.
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Also, I went back to skim through your comments and, in all honesty, you sound a bit "uppity".
Please remember that I'm saying this with all the best intentions.
You might want to bear in mind that people don't like to be lectured and overwhelmed with unnecessarily complicated terms when there are simple ones which would serve the purpose just as well.
I'm an English major and some of your posts gave me a headache xD
Another thing I'd like to add- besides sounding "uppity" it shows that you don't take into account that not everyone here is a native speaker and the complexity of your posts might make it impossible for some people to participate in the discussion. That's a nice thing to remember if you want to be friendly in a setting like this one :)
Also, not everyone will share your opinion or be polite in expressing their opposition (and it's up to you and only you to calm the situation down and continue the conversation or leave). You can't blame others for your own behavior, even though it might have been a reaction to something someone else might have said- I'm speaking in general here.
Getting dragged into ugly arguments benefits no one.
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I suppose you're right. I am aware I have a problem with being too formal, though this is a habit I'm not sure how I could fix. I don't type the way I do, or use the words I use, because I'm trying to impress anyone or to try to sound intelligent (I've been accused as much more times than I could count). This is honestly how I speak, even in-person, and only once I'm familiar with someone do I lax on my formality.
Do you have any advice on how I could improve my conversational and debating abilities, in your opinion? Should I avoid using certain terms or vocabulary, or certain sentence structures? I'm aware that I am rather verbose and lengthy in my replies, but that is primarily due to my desire to be thorough and rigorous in my rebuttal, not to pad my posts with circumlocution.
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I came across that post and decided to respond. I didn't do anything wrong, did I? Anyway, it's not like you haven't been following my discussions, either.
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Just give it your best to keep your expressions as simple as possible.
You are alienating people unnecessarily with your level of formality and I'm not certain that a lot of people would accept your explanation for your choice of words/phrases/sentence structure as the truth.
You sound more like a second language user who has given his best to acquire the most complex way of expressing himself as to avoid seeming uneducated rather than a native speaker. Maybe you sound like that to me as I've never encountered a native speaker dealing with this issue, but then again, my experience is quite limited in this respect ;)
And as for how to fix this...
My best advice would be- don't get into debates on the Web. It's useless ;)
If you're already in the middle of a heated argument- don't think of your ego, apologize just in case you've insulted anyone and take your leave.
Now onto your way of expressing yourself:
"and only once I'm familiar with someone do I lax on my formality." could have been phrased as "only when I get to know a person am I able to stop speaking so formally"
Do you see the difference?
Feel free to explain/elaborate on any term (such as "lax") that is not in everyday use and keep in mind that the more you shift the aux.verbs the more stuck-up you sound :)
Moving on... Instead of saying "and only once I'm familiar with someone do I lax on my formality." you could have said "I can only lower my level of formality once I'm..." Also notice how I've used "I can only" and not "Only can I"
Shifting independent sentences like you do can also seem a bit stuck-up.
You'll have to forgive me for not paying much attention to the order of things here but it's almost 1am and I'm way past my "ready to go sleepy-bye" phase :)
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English is the only language I can speak fluently, and it is my native language. I'm not trying to compensate for anything by using big words or anything of the sort. I simply view language as a powerful and fascinating tool with which I can express myself. There are literally millions of words in the English dictionary; why not put my language to good use and employ the most accurate and precise terminology I know? I'm not actively seeking to obfuscate and obscure, only to express myself in as detailed and comprehensive a way possible. And yes, this is how I actually speak. In person, people are actually impressed with my vocabulary, but on the Internet? No, I'm just some pseudo-intellectual charlatan Googling words and synonyms to seem smart, despite how that can't be further from the truth.
You may be right that I'm alienating others with my formality, but I don't have an adequate alternative which achieves the goals I wish while not being so damn uptight. How else am I to use the words I think fit best and still remain "normal" in my speaking? If I dumb down my language or cut out the formal terminology, I compromise on the integrity and clarity of my statements. Yes, people may think they understand me better in doing so, but do they really? Or am I just catering to the vagueness of language? I choose the words I use carefully and thoughtfully; this isn't just a mishmash of bullshit from some hermit who's swallowed one too many a dictionary.
From what you're telling me, the problem seems to be word order and the use of uncommon words. I'm not sure if I can fix the latter, but the former may be a place wherein I can improve. I guess this is what get for having dry, academic literature as my preferred reading material.
Goodnight!
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I don't belittle anyone, and you assuming that only points to the fact that you're too fucking insecure for your own good.
I don't get your reference, but it's probably a poorly constructed joke anyway.
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Dude, whatever, rock your vocabulary! I sometimes write like you do, too. Though for me the switch turns on when I'm having an important discussion and I wish to get my point across as clear as possible. For the most part I type colloquially but I definitely get your style of communication. I feel as though the real problem isn't your vocabulary but the fact that your demeanor comes across as a bit.... intolerant, shall I say? I'm truly not trying to attack you or anything but when you say things like, "you're too fucking insecure for your own good" you're going to give people a negative view of you. I do get that you said that because you feel attacked but attacking back in kind won't get you anywhere.
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For what it's worth, I love such vocabulary and prose.
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I recommend reviewing my interactions with AdamZombie to see why I behaved that way. This belligerent douche has been harassing me through both of my threads. I've tried being courteous to him, but there comes a point at which I simply don't care to show him respect when he continues to give me none.
EDIT: Thanks for your encouragement and advice, though.
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I corrected your grammar courteously and multiple people stated as much. For those of you wondering what happened, you can see the comment chain here. I'd appreciate it if you didn't lie and skew the truth to fit your agenda of trying to make me look like the bad guy, when all I've done is try to treat you respectfully (up until recently, when I finally got tired of your shit).
Stop playing like you're the victim when it's obvious that you caused all this by being an insufferable, bigoted asshole. You even said so yourself that you were drunk when you originally acted that way, but you can't even man up and grow a pair to admit you messed up and apologize for it. You'd rather continue to act like a contemptuous douche and treat me like shit all because I corrected you on your ESL mistake. Get over it, you baby.
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@Nokkenbuer No offense, but there is nothing I hate more in this world then grammar police and I find it to be one of the rudest things anyone can do, online or in real life. I found the comment in question to be a very rude thing to do and I'd be calling you an asshole myself had you done it to me.
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If I wanted to be an asshole, I'd point out that you used "then" when you should have used "than." You should not take corrections in your English so personally, though, because it's typically not done out of spite. This stigma against so-called "grammar police" and "Grammar Nazis" is just a projection of people's unwillingness to accept that they are fallible, flawed, and capable of making mistakes. If you can't accept constructive criticism, then you should reevaluate yourself as an individual and reconsider your priorities because it's pretty damn pathetic to get so worked up over a minor correction.
Your hatred for people who correct you only indicates personal insecurities. Nothing I had said in that original comment was rude and multiple people stated as much. Your hostile reaction to it only betrays your own problems, not the fact that I made a mistake.
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I understand that not everyone is perfect, hell, I was born and raised in the USA, but proper grammar and spelling have never been strong points of mine. When I write something online, I try to correct everything I notice as a mistake and will even go as far as to edit it several times. If someone wants to point something out to me in private (which I know can not be done here, which is a bummer), I don't have much of a problem with that. However, when someone feels the need to point it out publicly, I find it rude and offensive.
Go to any forum and check out users who typically call people out for spelling mistakes, typos, shorthand words, or mistakes with grammar and you will usually find that they feel they are better then those they are correcting. I used to work years ago with a kid who was an English major, he found the need to always correct everyone around him if they made mistakes while talking, be it to other co-workers or customers. He found he was better then everyone he corrected, on the simple fact that he was better at speaking and writing then them, he actually told several of us who worked with him this on a daily basis. The only rude thing he did, was correct them, he would even be polite while doing so, yet customers would find this to be very rude and would just leave, we would received several complaints a week because of his need to correct customers. The owner tried to enplane to him that this was not the place to be giving people English lessons and pissing customers off, asked him a few different times to stop. Even after all that, he refused to stop correcting people, people kept sending in complaints, the kid ended up being fired because of it.
There is a time and a place for constructive criticism, if I were writing an essay, a story, a review, a description for a game I made, or anything where the writing and spelling would be impotent, that is one thing and I would welcome any and all criticism. A forum that is visited by countless people around the world, many who may or may not be well versed in the English language, commenting about random stuff, that is NOT the place to be critical on how someone is writing.
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Yeah, I only came back because I was told that he actually mentioned my name in his edited OP, I thought maybe he replied to my post about how everyone has different morals, but it turns out he did not. Then I noticed he was calling me out because I said I hated grammar police, so I had to post my two cents.
I think it's time we just all let this thread die already!
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I'm not gonna use the black list at all. I'm here to give stuff to winners, and try to win things myself.
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It's no secret that some people seem to be fond of looking down on "leechers" (aka those who don't have non bundle giveaways), while in reality being not much better (abusing RU/etc)
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does the blacklist work both ways? i mean if person A blacklists person B can person A still join person B:s giveaways.
if he can then its a major flaw in the system.
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I just don't get any of this really. The discussion keeps getting brought back to what is morally acceptable for a blacklisting, yet everyone on this planet has different morals. Who are any of us to judge what one finds morally acceptable? We can not change everyone's opinions on how to use the blacklist system and I feel there really is no need. If someone wants to "abuse" the system, as what has been stated, then so be it, it is in place for them to use however each person wants to use it. If I wanted to, I should be allowed to just randomly add whoever I wanted to my black list, just for fun. Does it make sense? No, but it may make sense to the person who feels the need to do so.
Morality is different to each person and if everyone believed the same things, everyone on this planet would be donating to charities, adopting a child in Africa, giving away food to the homeless, and all kinds of other things, but everyone believes in different things. I just don't see why someone feels that there MUST be a good reason to be added to someone's blacklist or else the system is being abused. I have yet to actually see anyone who fears posting in discussions because they may be blacklisted. If someone blacklisted me for whatever reason they had, I would just move on to another giveaway.
I also voted, Yes, anyone I want. Blacklisted. I have never added a member to my blacklist (not that I really do a lot of giveaways at the moment), but I stand by that everyone should be able to use it however they want to use it.
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Suggestion to reduce spurious blacklisting: Blacklisting should work like it does now, but whenever you blacklist someone, all their posts in the forums show up to you as a dancing monkey gif. The dancing monkey gif would be entertaining if you blacklist a few people, but if you blacklist a bunch of people the entire forum will look like dancing monkeys.
(More serious suggestion if you want people to not blacklist so many people: Blacklists should work both ways. If you blacklist someone, you can't see their giveaways, just like they can't see yours. This makes logical sense -- if you feel someone is a scammer or if you just hate them, why do you want to enter their giveaways?)
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I don't have a lot of people on my blacklist and definitely wouldn't care if I was allowed to enter their future giveaways or not. (Although, in all honesty, if I wanted to enter such a giveaway I'd simply have to get the person off my list, join, then put him back.)
I also have no issue having someone who blacklisted me win one of my giveaway either. I have no idea if I've ever been blacklisted by anyone, nor do I care. I've been conduction myself as a gentleman most of the time but I've had my dumb moments too, so I could very well have offended another member at some point without even knowing it.
Fun fact: even if someone were to use the 1000 slots in their blacklist, they would be blocking only about 0.1% of the users from the site.
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People do what they want with their account soooooooooooooo ...
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Gotta be honest...
First few seconds i was just gonna ignore the thread...
Then after reading a few posts, honestly again... i considered trolling this thread and just say "1 word for you: blacklisted" and then leave never to check it again. I'm willing to wager the thought has crossed more people's minds, but i could be wrong.
On a probably TL;DR serious note though (as humanly possible and one this thread is probably undeserving of):
-
I have a very small blacklist that only started in December (i have a text file list of users added, with corresponding reason and date they were added, because i like being thorough like that).
- 90% are your typical re-gifter, fake key gifter, etc. and even if it may be redundant as said by Rinarin, i do it mostly just out of a "better safe than sorry" sentiment. As in... i'd hate for a user to not be blocked here before they enter a giveaway i create, because of support backlog, which is quite frankly not just real, but very much understandable. Sure, it's an off chance, and sure, there still might be a way around it, but it would require involving support with an extra chore, etc. Not that i'm doubting Rinarin lol, not even sure what i mentioned is a possible scenario, but... in the worst case scenario, it's redundant to blacklist the user, but that's it. In the best case scenario, i spared support of an extra chore. So win-win as far as i'm concerned, and all it takes for me is clicking a button.
- The other 10% are whining ungrateful leechers and alike. No, i don't care if someone has or has not given anything in this site to be eligible to win something. I do however, care if they have not only been here much longer than me, are continuously getting the chance to get stuff for free, have won dozens of games AND still feel entitled to create a thread complaining about the quality of games being given or pull some other similar stupidity, which i honestly don't feel the need to delve deeper to justify as typical entitled leeching behaviour. It's not just blacklisting someone for being merely stupid, it's blacklisting them for entitled stupidity, which i for one, can't stand, nor feel i should. Also to keep things separate and not stray from the point being made, i wrote a side note which i'll leave at the end of my post regarding not just entitled stupidity, but also lame poverty excuses.
-
Even though i personally don't blacklist people on a whim, i honestly don't care about the pseudo-morality of blacklisting someone with a cause vs blacklisting someone without a cause. Sorry, but if there ever was a thread on SG befitting of the done to death label SJW, this is it.
As much as anyone else's blacklist, well, my blacklist, my game being gifted, my criteria. You may not like it, but it's still not wrong.
Not wrong as far as the rules go, nor wrong as far as morality goes (which is a subjective topic by the way, and not one you can claim ownership of, or higher and deeper understanding of, than a vast number of people who happen to disagree with you).
Also, as someone pointed out (and quite rightfully so, imo), i could see much easier grounds for actual abuse in whitelists than in blacklists. Especially in public giveaways. -
No, private/group giveaways are not (nor should be) the exclusive alternative to 100% public giveaways, regardless of CV and so no, that's not what private/group giveaways and CV solely exist for.
I would not only refute your claim that a minority is being unfairly deprived of a public giveaway (sorry, but lol @unfairly, truly :D) due to the existance of built-in and easier to maintain blacklists... but go further and say that there are actually more and better (subjective, so i'd just stick with more non-exploited) public giveaways being created because of newer built-in and easier to maintain blacklists. Heck, if i cared that much about it, i'd run a poll (go ahead if you do care and doubt me) asking users that have blacklists and made frequent group/private giveaways in SGv1 if they started making more public giveaways in SGv2 due to easier blacklists. I could be dead wrong on the money here, because it's just really an educated guess, but i'd wager firmly that yes, they have. Someone has pointed out that a lot of users stockpiled on a few games to give because of the 1-week downtime, but i don't think that's the main reason, considering it was just one week. Could be one of the reasons, but i don't think it's the main one. Again, could be wrong, run a poll if you care (i don't).
So bottom line of this point (proven by polling or not), not only are users not being deprived for no good reason, others that might have been in the past are probably not anymore. Emphasis on the subjectivity of good reason again, i don't feel entitled to enter exclusive group X, Y or Z's giveaways, groups which i don't belong to, and i don't see it as unfair or as something that has no good reason to happen. It happens, because GA creator wants it to be so. Enough reasoning as far as i'm concerned. -
How about you don't even try (it's beyond the point if you succeed or not, which you won't thankfully) to dictate the way someone should or should not make a giveaway, as long as it's guaranteed that he's not exploiting the site for personal benefit? Shouldn't the vast majority of SG's community be more fearful of the alternative to the non-existance of blacklists? Have you for a second taken a look around yourself and considered what i said in point 3?
The sidenote i mentioned above (about entitled stupidity and lame poverty excuses - because i'm just so sick of those, geez):
This is the internet. There is no such thing as being poor on the internet.
And yes, i would brazenly and boldly say that is A FACT. Why?
A) You have internet access, but you can't afford the basics? Please.
B) Errr... this is the internet. Every time someone whines on the internet, must be true.
The fact that there is someone out there richer than you, which therefore makes you poorer than that someone, doesn't make you poor by default, just poorer. There is an absurdly insane difference. For someone who is so keen on formalitys as you yourself admitted, you should review the basics, no offence. :/
-
Just skimming through your steam profile for 30 secs, i can see you have been a member of Steam for roughly 2 and a half years, yet you have 280 games on your steam library, which is almost as much as me on almost 10, and i am in no way poor.
Like myself, the issues of having over 200+ games, make up for a really big backlog (heck, i've won Dark Souls recently here on SG, am eager to try it, but due to my backlog, finishing games i was in the middle of, playing more casual games that require almost no effort unlike Dark Souls, i've to my absolute sadness been unable to touch it yet). Which then means AAA games with 0h played on your Steam Library. Yes, like myself as mentioned, but... one tiny difference though... i don't go around calling myself poor. It takes a special kind of nerve for that, sorry. -
Regardless of the size of your library which you could say it was all gifts from so many generous people all around the globe, gosh, do you even know the meaning of the word poverty? Have you ever starved? Have you ever been deprived of the bare minimum? EVER? I cannot assume that you haven't, but IF you have, then i shouldn't need to tell you there's a big difference in not being able to afford certain luxuries - yes, luxuries! games are a luxury, not a necessity, for crying out loud - and being poor. If you have internet access, you are not poor by default. My own mother actually literally starved in her early teens, many, many years ago. Thankfully, even though i'm far from rich or wealthy, i'm not poor. Not thus far, anyway. So everytime i read someone with internet access say they are poor, it makes me want to peel my eyes out with a fork. :/
So bottom line for this kind of big sidenote...
If you can't afford to gift games, that's just fine, you're not obligated to, just don't use it as a lame excuse to play the "poor card". That's 1 step away from begging in my book, as far as i'm concerned. :/
EDIT:
Sigh TL;DR was an understatement, so you'll excuse me if i more than likely don't bother to check the thread again.
And to think i could've used this time to free up my backlog a bit more...
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So far i only blacklisted Mew2 since he\she has the habit of blacklist a bunch of people with no apparent reason... the steam profile description speaks by itself: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198043771411
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Woah, he can't even fit that many people on the SGv2 blacklist!
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What? I'm on his blacklist?!
I truly can't understand this...
I'm not gonna go into "I always try to be as pleasant as possible..." stuff as most of you know me so there's no need (or at least I thought so until now) but really.. Why?!
I talked with the guy on more than one occasion and it was always in very good spirits so I truly do not get this. There's no way I've offended him intentionally as I've never been impolite to anyone here.
I wonder why he did that...
Mostly I'm sad he didn't say anything to me if he ever felt offended as I so take care to be nice to people seeing as there are enough impolite people on the Web :(
Anyway, I'm not gonna blacklist him since he never was anything but nice in out conversations and I'm sure he has his reasons for blacklisting me. I'm pretty sad he didn't tell me what the problem was though.
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i'm also blacklisted by him, i dont think that i ever talked to him before so it should be just another kid that cant read so i will blacklist him back, maybe someday he will cry about it and actually stop, idk :V
btw ironic how he created a whitelist giveaway and no entries, well karma is a B word...
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He seemed like a pretty cool guy every time we spoke.
I think I'll ask him what happened if we talk again.
Its not about being on the blacklist due to GA's, I just hate to think that I've made him feel bad for some reason. :/
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Well I think he just made a huge blacklist to increase is EGO and show off how much badass he is....
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copy/paste blacklists - someone did you on a list and made this public somewhere and all the idiots copy/paste it to have a big list even when they dont know who you are or what you did wrong.
i found me on this list too and list looks identical from this deltabladewhateverX guy which listed me too and i know alot just copy/paste this nonsene and dont even know why
here maby you find you on this list too^^
http://pastebin.com/Z8vy1GYP
i never did anything wrong or broke any rule or whatever but hey ... this is why kids are not allowed to vote^^
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It's not a c/p.
Maybe you're forgetting that both Mew2 and Delta are very active members of the community and interact with other members more than the average member so they get a lot more chances to notice stuff that gets people on their blacklists.
I've spoken with Delta on several occasions and he is a pretty laid back guy, as far as I've seen, so I really have no idea what could have gotten you on his blacklist. Then again, I have no idea what got me on Mew's so we're in the same boat here xD
I've just realized that this discussion (due to some attitudes towards some members mentioned in it and the tone of it) might now be verging on "calling out" so I'd rather everyone calmed their nerves or else you might actually be giving people a reason to blacklist you for breaking the rules.
Also, it's just not polite to talk about others behind their backs, and as they are obviously not following this discussion this might fall under that category and there's no reason to be impolite as what they did or did not do falls 100% within their rights, whether anyone else agrees with it or not :)
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Hihihi, you really have strong feelings about this, don't you? ;)
I agree, as long everyone is polite and obeys the rules there is absolutely no reason for anyone not express his/her opinion.
I just mentioned blacklisting here as, what I believe would be an acceptable option to everyone, means of dealing with rule-breakers. Seeing as this is a discussion about blacklisting and all... Nothing else :)
On the point of freedom of speech... People often abuse the idea. Having freedom to speak is not about being free to say anything to anyone, it's about being free to express your opinion in the appropriate setting and in an appropriate way.
As people have started to get a bit too "free" with their freedom of speech (insults and so on) and calling people out for blacklisting them I just thought it would be nice to remind everyone that there is a rule against it. :)
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Nah, don't worry, I didn't think you said anything to me with bad feelings behind it. :)
It's hard to really capture your feelings when you write so I always assume (except in cases when it is REALLY obvious that that is not the case) that everyone is writing everything I see with a kind smile. It makes life on the web much more pleasant ;)
Thank you, though, for making sure your intentions were clear <3
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i never did anything wrong or broke any rule or whatever but hey ... this is why kids are not allowed to vote^^
It's not because you edited a post that nobody remembers what you wrote at first.
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I don't see the issue here. I mean, if someone doesn't want to give something to me they're entitled to do so. I don't care what their reason are, or if they're still able to enter for any game I give. A blacklist is personal so it can not be "unjustified" or "abusive". I someone wanted to block me from entering they could use a private or group or level giveaway without using a blacklist. This is just another filter.
You say you've been blacklisted without justifiable causes, but that's in your opinion. Just like you think blacklists are wrong, while others think they're good, you're bound to do something that doesn't sit well with another user but is totally harmless in your mind.
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You should preface the lines you're quoting with > so they appear as actual quotes. Much easier to read.
There is no fix to the issue.
Personally, I don't see any issue at all.
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I have some regifters in my blacklist, and some people who are trolls imo.
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After reading through some of your comments I came to a conclusion.
I sincerely doubt you really care about the topic of blacklist and wether they are used "right or wrong" by the members of this site. To me, you just seem to be like one of those stuck up persons who just really love hearing themselves talk and that's sad.
I don't understand why you try to push your agenda and enforce a harsh policing on such a petty matter as blacklisting. Where were you half a year back? Even one month back? The rules haven't changed. Blacklists are not a new thing, they've been around pretty long, the only thing that changed is that now blacklists are an implemented feature of the site.
There is nothing fundamentally or even better yet "morally" wrong if a user decides to use a feature of the site. In a post you said that you refuse rerolling winners on the site you are moderating. That's your right, nobody's arguing about that. On this site it's your right to blacklist users from entering your giveaways or even rerolling and that's fine too, nobody's complaining.
In the end, the best thing you could do is to just close this thread already. It's okay if you felt like discussing a matter that seemed urgent for you. Discussions are generally a good thing, but there's always a point you should just stop. You are not trying to argument here anymore, you are just trying to enforce your views and believs as fundamentally right.
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How common is it actually that people just randomly blacklist people for no major reason? While there probably are a handful of people who does this, I would honestly be surprised if it was a widespread problem. Most blacklistings will probably be due to someone being really rude and/or breaking the rules.
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+1
The single largest fallacy on this thread can be attributed to the person who seems keenest to use the word.
In practical terms, it's a complete non-issue, but the saddest thing on this thread - even sadder than the continual condescension and lack of faith in the people who come here to give away gifts - is that some [mainly newer] users are being sucked in, and now labour under the impression that the forums are a place to be feared.
It's nonsense, it's misinformation, and it's entirely toxic. Regardless, you wonder whether all of this may work to the benefit of a certain rival site?
¬_¬
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Haha, sabotage you say? ;)
Intriguing!
I have quite a bit I could add to the general discussion of this thread (and many of the minor discussions), but alas, I'm far too lazy for that right now. lol
Back to playing Hearthstone for me!
(Oh, you've been on my whitelist since 3 minutes after I logged into the site for the first time)
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Haha! Sounds like a wise choice...
I'm not sure this discussion is really worthy of anyone's energy at this point. Genuine dialogue pretty much died an eternity ago, and the aftermath is a few people running around in circles, attempting to beat the last vestiges of mortality out of an equine skeleton that even the maggots have abandoned...
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Yeah, I missed all the fun while playing Hearthstone. lol
I think it was time well spent though, I tend to get heated in discussions like this, that's why I've been avoiding posting and just lurking the forum since the upgrade.
Do you play Hearthstone by chance? It's a fun little game! :D
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I've actually never given it a try, although I understand it's the digital equivalent of crack cocaine :)
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It's only crack if you have large sums of money to spend. lol
I've been on the F2P patch since the beta and I play maybe a dozen matches a day (usual match lasts around 6 minutes) and I'm doing just fine.
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I can help you if you like. :D
Not spend money. o_O But learn the game. lol
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In case it hasn't been mentioned, Hearthstone is owned, developed, and published by Blizzard Entertainment. Despite how it's a moderately entertaining game, I'd rather not support such a company. So long as you're fine with it being a Blizzard product, then go for it. It's a very enjoyable game, assuming you like animated, turn-based virtual card games.
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First games free, I'll have to charge you after that though. o_O
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Until I see someone doing something that I think is inappropriate, I have no blacklist.
I guess I'm probably on some blacklists because I don't feel the need to spam a "thank you" every time I enter a giveaway though. Which I think is dumb, but whatever.
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Before I come to my point of view, I just want to clarify that I didn't read all the comments. In fact I just read the main posting and Lina's comment.
Honestly I don't understand many people's problem with the blacklists. As far as I can see, there are 3 types of users here:
- Those that use the blacklist "excessively"
- Those that blacklist users that break whatever rules
- Those that don't use the blacklist at all or just in exceptional cases.
For me it's simple: 2 and 3 are no problem, neither for the vast majority of users nor the community itself. And about the first group: Do you really want to win or even take part in a giveaway of a person that blacklisted you for no justifiable cause? I know I won't. That's clearly a person you can't talk to in a normal manner and therefore I don't want to have anything to do with them.
I don't think the mentioned impact on the community would be noticeable at all. Not with the blacklist. On the other hand I would see more potential of abusing the whitelist system which could impact the community far heavier. As Zomby2D said in his reply to the answer of Lifedreamer to Lina's post (yeah, I read those too): After blacklisting a thousand of users there are still over 700k left. The other way round, if people would start to fill their whitelists instead and solely start making whitelist giveaways, most of the users would be left out from participating in those giveaways. And that may have an impact on the community. (I really hope I won't start another discussion about whitelists now.)
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Very short, personal opinion: I don't like the blacklist option, I don't have a reason to use is and I'm sure that I will never, ever use it.
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I've given away quite a lot of games (more than 100 games) on other websites. Some of those websites have a blacklist, some of those websites don't a have a blacklist. I never had the need to blacklist an user and never had the need to have a blacklist.
Even though I dislike some users on SteamGifts and on other websites, I won't blacklist them. Every user should have the same chance to win a giveaway. I don't care if an user who I dislike is going to win my giveaway. I don't care if a scammer or an user who breaks rules is going to win my giveaway. I just want to get rid of games and give every user a chance to win a game.
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Indeed, that's my personal opinion and that's what my post is meant to be. I felt like sharing my personal opinion and I don't really want to join the debate. However, here's my final contribution to this topic:
Everyone has the right to blacklist whoever they want, for whatever reason. My personal opinion is that a blacklist is not useful, even though I understand why some users make use of the blacklist. After all, it's a personal thing and everyone is able to decide if they want to use the blacklist or not. Summary: Don't remove or change the blacklist. Let users decide if they want to use it or not. Removing it may cause mayhem.
Edit: This thread has way too many posts, considering that this is a petty matter. Why do people even debate about this? Sadly, I've spent way too much time on this thread. Also, I'm curious how many people are going to blacklist me for my posts, but to be honest, I don't care as I don't really join giveaways anymore. Anyways, time to move on.
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Yeah - nail on head.
This really is a non-issue. A bump in the lawn that's been Photoshopped to the size of Mount Kilimanjaro.
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It would be nice to be able to check who blacklisted you.
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I'm not the kinda guy who would harass someone. But since I give away a lot I would consider returning the favour.
Ofcourse they will not implement this, for me personally this would be a nice addition though.
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As if that's any worse than the current abuse that's rampant among blacklisters? It would only be fair, if anything.
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What evidence do you have of this? At the heart of this thread, there seems to be a lot of fear and scaremongering, but previous little real evidence.
Many of the "blacklisted" comments in the forums appear to be jokes or intended ironically. Mine certainly have been.. If you can't see who is on the blacklists, how can you tell if anything is being "abused"?
Just chill. You can trust the overwhelming majority of the community to do the right thing. Relax :)
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I don't see any fear or scaremongering occurring anywhere in this thread.
It's possible that the "blacklisted" comments were posted ironically, but unless it's completely obvious or explicitly stated as much, I can't determine whether that is the case (cf. Poe's Law), nor do I believe it would be right to assume the intentions of a user without sufficient evidence. Therefore, the only reasonable stances I could take for these indeterminable cases would either be ambivalence or treating it as potentially serious. I opted for the latter because I believe serious instances of impetuous blacklisting do occur, so I might as well address the issue anyway, of only to ward off future instances of it.
My belief that it is being abused it due to my observations of how users claim to use the blacklisting system, and from my own personal experiences with it. There isn't really any credible way I can measure such activities at this time, though I've tried to poll the community on their blacklisting habits (as is evident by the poll above). So far, I'm basing my claims on my observations and experiences, and from the theoretical susceptibility for abuse that is inherent in the blacklisting system.
I do believe the majority of the community is appropriately using the blacklisting system, and the poll above suggests as much, but I believe it's nevertheless a worthwhile discussion to have, even if the problem is relatively marginal.
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That's ok, as long as it is recognised that the problem IS marginal.
To call it "rampant", as you did in your earlier post does your argument a disservice, and causes unnecessary worry for inexperienced users, and forum newbies.
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Well, if I were to assume all the indeterminable posts were actually serious, it would seem like a significant problem in the community. It may simply be a vocal minority, and probably is, but they're nevertheless setting an unhealthy precedent for newcomers which may lead to an increase in this sort of abuse. It may be marginal now, but if it is not discussed or addressed, people may begin to assume this is normal behavior, which will only lead to abusive blacklisting habits going from marginal to majorly problematic.
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Meh.
I still don't really follow the concept of "abuse" but each to their own.
In my opinion, the weakest reason for blacklisting is probably a difference of opinion, or dislike of a user's posting style. If someone doesn't like me, and blacklists me for these reasons, they clearly feel strongly about it. I'm totally comfortable with that. It's their game. It's their money. If they think I'm a ballbag, and don't want to run the risk of me winning it, I think it's actually a rather good feature that they can do something to make sure this doesn't happen.
Most people on the forums are responsible and reasonable, so I don't see any problem with treating them as adults.
Still, we're re-treading old ground on that old "freedom of choice" chestnut, and we're not going to meet in the middle :)
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Agreed. Coming from someone who has spent the thread banging on about the importance of doing the right thing, and considering the wider effects of one's actions on the community, the thread title might easily be viewed as alarmist, divisive and grossly irresponsible.
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I've blacklisted a few on basis that they felt the need to start a thread complaining about how this site is a scam because they've entered #blah blah# entries but haven't won. If everyone was inclined to do likewise then I'd have thousands blacklisted by now, but luckily most think rationally and come to terms with how the system works. The thing I constantly ask myself is "was I impatient enough to start a topic on the subject?" and the simple answer is no; I was prepared to give it a chance.
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IMO there's no such a problem. People can blacklist as much as they want.
Personally, my reasons to blacklist someone are either personal offenses against me or someone I like, or people who confirmedly hack online games in a way it ruins other people's experience.
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What would you classify as a "personal offense" against you or someone you like?
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Well, it depends a lot on the context :p
One could call me a motherf*cker and I wouldn't care if I knew he was joking.
There was a situation, however, where this random internet person started calling me names, calling me "typical brazillian" and sending me "back to my favela". That was racist and dickish, so I blocked him on steam :o
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So, basically, it's not so much that it offends you that is the impetus for your decision, but the fact that such behavior is considered wrong or immoral to you. Do you distinguish between what offends you and what is wrong? Or is the fact that something offends you reason to qualify it as wrong?
I guess what I'm asking is: why is a "personal offense" against you or someone you like reason to blacklist them? What makes this offense such a big deal that it causes you to blacklist the person?
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You're overthinking it :)
Basically, if I'm giving a game away, I'll won't give it away for someone I don't want to. If someone is a dick with me I won't give that person a game. Yes, it is subjective, but again, it's MY giveaway, I won't follow any specific guidelines other than my personal biased reasons to decide who deserves to get a game from me :v
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Well, I suppose that's your decision. Thanks for explaining your reasoning behind it.
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No problem :)
I know they may be selfish reasons, but I swear I try to avoid blacklisting as much as possible, and I try not to mix up offenses with opinions different than mine :p
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It's ultimately your decision on how you use the blacklisting system, but at least it's good to know you are aware on how to properly use it (in my opinion). Whatever the case, I appreciate your willingness to explain.
Thanks for contributing to the thread!
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No, I'm not writing any such essay or paper, nor am I in any such class at this time. You'd be surprised at just how little formal education I actually have. The reason why I keep asking all these questions is because I find learning the perspectives and reasoning of others to be fascinating and enlightening. I have an insatiable appetite for learning and I find debates and discussions to be very enjoyable. Even a simple exchange like the one above is more enjoyable to me than, say, my favorite candy bar because I delight in talking to others and picking their brains. In learning about the thoughts and feelings of others, I can better learn about myself.
I also have ulterior motives to my conduct. For example, I try to be contentious and argumentative not to just be an asshole, but to spark debate and encourage people to use their brains. I try to encourage people to examine their beliefs and opinions, explore their views, and hone their understanding of themselves and the world around them, and I do so by asking questions, sparking debates, and inciting discourse. Many times, I intentionally take up contrary opinions for the sake of argument, whether arguendo or as a Devil's advocate, sometimes even ones with which I vehemently disagree against people who actually agree with me, for the sole purpose of stimulating debate. It may be contrarian and irritating, but some people have accomplished great things through their pesky goading.
Basically, I argue because I value argumentation and I think it's healthy for the mind. I want to encourage a more examined understanding among people of both themselves and the world around them because I believe doing so is my duty as someone who deeply cares for the welfare and wellbeing of humanity. Yes, I'm eccentric and yes I'm annoying, but there is a method to my madness and a purpose to my pugnacity: I want to help people (and help myself) and I try to do so by arguing.
I do analyze SteamCompanion as well and I do so within my own circles, especially among the other moderators and administrator. Why not here as well? Anyway, this is what I do in my spare time. Contrary to what you may believe, I'm not on a messianic, one-man crusade to change the world. Believe it or not, I actually find this enjoyable—that is, until people start being assholes.
Again, sorry for the wall of text. It's a bad habit of mine and I don't mean to be so wordy.
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Well, I tried to set a precedent for this thread, an atmosphere of civil discussion among its participants. Yes, I may seem haughty and "uppity" (as Lucy described me before), but I created this thread with the intent of seriously discussing this issue in rigorous detail. (I now realize people on SteamGifts don't give a shit about marginal and trivial things like I do.) If we met in a different thread or in a different place on the Internet, I would have probably behaved differently and we might have even become friends.
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TL;DR – What is your reasoning for blacklisting people and what is your opinion on blacklisting someone for their posts? Do you think "excessive blacklisting" is a problem, or whether there is such a thing as an "unjustified blacklisting," and how do you think this impacts the community? What could be done to fix this issue besides removing blacklists or enforcing rules which prohibit unjustified blacklisting?
I'm initiating this discussion after seeing multiple frivolous and unwarranted blacklistings occur. Even I have been blacklisted without justifiable cause (I won't name names, but you know who you are), and I've come across a number of times wherein I cannot view the giveaway due to being blacklisted by the contributor, despite how I don't recall ever encountering or interacting with that person in my life. It appears to me that many people are abusing the blacklisting system, which is really only intended for rule breakers and those who share puzzle answers, by blacklisting anyone and everyone who doesn't completely flatter them. I'll probably be blacklisted for this very thread, and it's a concerning thought.
This is ultimately a giveaway site and blacklisting seriously restricts the user's ability to use it. The site has a forum, but I feel discussion and conversation is being stifled out of fear of being blacklisted for anything one might say. I usually voice my opinions and speak my mind even at the risk of negative consequences, yet even I have given a second thought to posting even the most innocuous of things out of fear that I'll be blacklisted from giveaways for it. Is this the sort of community we wish to foster? One in which users are afraid to converse due to idiots who treat blacklisting as the same as blocking, while only really restricting their chances to enter into certain giveaways? Even once blacklisted, you can still see the user's posts, so why are people blacklisting based on posts? What is the rationale?
Feel free to weigh in and voice your opinion below. For what it's worth, I won't blacklist you regardless of how much I disagree with your post. I encourage discussion, not stifle it.
Important Update (February 3, 2015)
This thread has sparked a lot of debate (which is a good thing!), but has also led to some rather distasteful arguments between users (which is a bad thing), and I'm guilty of this as well. Although it may be wise to lock this thread in order to prevent more conflict, and so that I don't get blacklisted even more than I probably have by now, I've made the decision to keep this thread open in order to provide a place of discourse about the topic of blacklisting for the SteamGifts community.
I will continue to monitor this thread and do my best to respond to everyone over time, though I'll be posting less frequently from hereon out. For those of you who'd rather not sift through all the shit and spats below, here is a highlight of notable posts and comment chains throughout the thread:
(This list is by no means exhaustive and there were many worthwhile contributions throughout. This list simply summarizes notable exchanges in this thread that incoming users may wish to peruse. For those of you who'd like to see the full range of opinions and arguments, feel free to scroll down and read them all below.)
Other notable posts: EViLiSLuRKiNG, Pizzaice, omnitau, Zomby2D, Lifedreamer, TheCyberDruid, Sinovera, nlspeed911, GauRocks, Rhahael, jbondguy007, Thexder, naps420, Aquillion, ZooZoV, SSteve, RedCoats, Jekaterina
Thank you to everyone who's participated! The above lists may be updated as more posts are made.
Changelog:
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