Do you blacklist people?
I won't rest until this issue has been fully examined and explored. Perhaps if people applied themselves, progress might be made.
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What do you even mean? Besides expounding on tired arguments, that is.
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I gave up on him and if everybody else will move on he might actually stop. Then again, he might not...
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Why give up on me? You act as if I'm some obstinate bigot who's unwilling to budge, when I have reformed my views throughout this entire thread as a result of the discussions therein. I may be rigorous and relentless, but that does not mean I will defend something I know to be wrong.
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If people took this issue more seriously, examined the issue and at least read the highlighted posts and discussions I mentioned in my update, and gave some considerable thought to it all before responding, perhaps some progress could be made. At this time, people seem bent on stating their opinion based on the original post I made (which is understandable, but unfortunately not helpful), ignoring the updates and discussions below, and express their opinions without even searching to see if the points they make have already been made and discussed. That is the origin of the circular argumentation that's occurring lately: people are stating their opinions and contributing nothing to the thread that hasn't already been discussed. Rather than participating in the discussion themselves, they are adding to it by voicing their own views irrespective of the overall picture.
By progress, I mean that some better understanding of the blacklisting system and its place in the community can be made. Perhaps we can better understand what constitutes justified or appropriate blacklisting, and what is considered an abuse of the system. Maybe we can reconciles the various sides and come to a common agreement so that concerted action can be made. Instead, however, no progress is being made because nobody is putting in any effort. They'd rather add to the quantity of voices in this thread than contribute to the quality of the discussion itself.
No progress can be made if nobody applies themselves and treats this issue more seriously and thoughtfully.
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The reason that people don't take this "seriously" is because they simply don't agree with you. You want to fix something that's working perfectly fine and doesn't need fixing.
There is no such thing as unjustified or inappropriate blacklisting. Anyone should be free to blacklist anyone else for whatever reason they see fit. It's not up to you or anyone else to judge what is a valid reason for me to add anyone to my blacklist. They are the ones spending the money to give something and they should be free to filter out anyone they don't want to give their game to. Just like on the old site, they can add you because you broke a rule, because you insulted their mother, because they don't like your name or avatar, or because they got drunk and decided to blacklist every second person they saw on that particular night. Any reason is valid and what is a good or bad reason will vastly differ from one person to the next.
Having blacklists apply to public giveaways is actually a good thing. It brings people out from private giveaways to offer their games to a larger audience. A lot of people stuck with private giveaways because they couldn't use their blacklist on public ones for the technical challenge that it posed. Whether you don't see the giveaway on the list because it's hidden from you by the blacklist, or because it's private, it won't make you any more able to join.
With 749,266 users and a 1,000 entries limit in the blacklist, you can't block more than 0.1% of the user base. The impact is negligible. (Unless you're the stubborn guy making this kind of thread and beating the dead horse until everyone has enough and decides to put you on their own blacklists) Even if I were to fill out my blacklist completely, 99.9% of Steamgifts users could still join my giveaways. (Assuming I don't put any more filters, like a minimum of level 2)
Having the blacklist work both way (preventing someone who blacklisted me from entering any of my giveaway) could be a good thing for some, but personally I don't care if anyone who blacklisted me enter any of my giveaways. And, honestly, if you want to enter a giveaway from someone you blacklisted, all you need to do is remove the person from your blacklist, join the giveaway, and add him back. This can be done with 3 mouse clicks.
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I've highlighted many posts in my OP update that I didn't agree with precisely because they took the issue seriously and provided some rational argumentation supporting their views. Just because I don't agree with a particular view or post, that doesn't mean I don't consider it a serious post. By "not taking things seriously" I mean many people are unwilling to take the time to construct a serious and thorough post that doesn't reiterate previous posts or arguments. Many just post their opinion and leave, adding to the quantity—but not the quality—of discussions in this thread. For example, I consider your post above to be a serious and constructive contribution to this thread because it analyzes the issue in-depth and provides clear reasoning as to why you hold the position you do, all the while attempting to refute mine. I don't agree with it, but I can nonetheless respect it as a serious contribution.
I don't think the blacklist system is "working perfectly fine and doesn't need fixing." There have been a number of issues about the system itself which demand fixing or tweaking, and potentially many more regarding how the system is treated by the community. The system itself is seriously flawed, though that is only one component of my arguments. The more exigent concern is surrounding how blacklisting is treated by the community and what constitutes as appropriate blacklisting behavior. Now, onto your numbered points:
Thanks for your contribution and hopefully this discussion continues, though it's fine if it does not. Happy SteamGifts Birthday, by the way!
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Your point? Or are you just, like, shitposting, man?
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"... or because they got drunk and decided to blacklist every second person they saw on that particular night."
My God, stop it already. I told you it was a mistake and I wouldn't do it again. Why must you continue to bring this up???
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Did that actually happen? Honestly, I was just making up possible reasons why someone would blacklist others.
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Right ... and then next time you'll start revealing my dark days when I started blacklisting users with screen names in which "i" did not come before "e".
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No, I won't talk about that one, Your secret is safe. (Just like I never told anyone about the time you blacklisted everyone who had green avatars)
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I was blacklisted for not making an account with what looked like a referral link (saying I couldn't as a passing comment and not entering the giveaway) on some music streaming site that wasn't available in my country.... fun times.
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Really? I know I've been arguing that many blacklistings are frivolous, but this seems almost too absurd. Could you cite where this occurred in particular?
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http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/p8htt/what-colour-is-the-dress/search?page=2 I'm not angry, but I just think its a poor reason, the blacklist is supposed to be used in another way :/
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Technically, one could check whether he or she has been blacklisted by another user by going to their profile and clicking on any giveaway which is not "Invite Only" or "Whitelist Only". Even on giveaways for Contributor Levels above yours, it will tell you that you cannot access the giveaway because you have been blacklisted by the giveaway creator. (If there are no giveaways which can be used to check, though, then there's no way of telling.)
That's how I found out about a number of instances wherein I was blacklisted, even when the user didn't tell me he or she was blacklisting me. Oftentimes, it's one of my interlocutors after a rather schismatic argument, though sometimes it'd be a random user.
EDIT (March 01, 2015): Even on whitelist-only giveaways, you can still check.
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I'm assuming it's this comment chain and subsequent posts therein? Sorry to hear that, but yeah that sucks. I agree that the blacklisting system shouldn't be used in such a way, though. You may find the rest of the thread interesting; feel free to join in wherever.
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lol :D It's an intresting question tbh. At first I did see the dress to be white and gold, scrolled down, read 3 lines of the article (It was a little hungarian article) then I thought "How the fuck can people see this as black and blue?" Scrolled up, and by that time it was black and blue for me as well :D So because of my own example I do know that it can be seen in any of the two way :)
Also, take a whitelisting, hopefully it will counterbalance the blacklist :)
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Considering how much of a non-issue it is, it just seems petty to keep going on and on about his.
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Well, I'd consider it an issue and arguably more important than some others which are more widely accepted.
By the way, I'll reply to your post sometime tomorrow, when I get the chance.
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TL;DR – What is your reasoning for blacklisting people and what is your opinion on blacklisting someone for their posts? Do you think "excessive blacklisting" is a problem, or whether there is such a thing as an "unjustified blacklisting," and how do you think this impacts the community? What could be done to fix this issue besides removing blacklists or enforcing rules which prohibit unjustified blacklisting?
I'm initiating this discussion after seeing multiple frivolous and unwarranted blacklistings occur. Even I have been blacklisted without justifiable cause (I won't name names, but you know who you are), and I've come across a number of times wherein I cannot view the giveaway due to being blacklisted by the contributor, despite how I don't recall ever encountering or interacting with that person in my life. It appears to me that many people are abusing the blacklisting system, which is really only intended for rule breakers and those who share puzzle answers, by blacklisting anyone and everyone who doesn't completely flatter them. I'll probably be blacklisted for this very thread, and it's a concerning thought.
This is ultimately a giveaway site and blacklisting seriously restricts the user's ability to use it. The site has a forum, but I feel discussion and conversation is being stifled out of fear of being blacklisted for anything one might say. I usually voice my opinions and speak my mind even at the risk of negative consequences, yet even I have given a second thought to posting even the most innocuous of things out of fear that I'll be blacklisted from giveaways for it. Is this the sort of community we wish to foster? One in which users are afraid to converse due to idiots who treat blacklisting as the same as blocking, while only really restricting their chances to enter into certain giveaways? Even once blacklisted, you can still see the user's posts, so why are people blacklisting based on posts? What is the rationale?
Feel free to weigh in and voice your opinion below. For what it's worth, I won't blacklist you regardless of how much I disagree with your post. I encourage discussion, not stifle it.
Important Update (February 3, 2015)
This thread has sparked a lot of debate (which is a good thing!), but has also led to some rather distasteful arguments between users (which is a bad thing), and I'm guilty of this as well. Although it may be wise to lock this thread in order to prevent more conflict, and so that I don't get blacklisted even more than I probably have by now, I've made the decision to keep this thread open in order to provide a place of discourse about the topic of blacklisting for the SteamGifts community.
I will continue to monitor this thread and do my best to respond to everyone over time, though I'll be posting less frequently from hereon out. For those of you who'd rather not sift through all the shit and spats below, here is a highlight of notable posts and comment chains throughout the thread:
(This list is by no means exhaustive and there were many worthwhile contributions throughout. This list simply summarizes notable exchanges in this thread that incoming users may wish to peruse. For those of you who'd like to see the full range of opinions and arguments, feel free to scroll down and read them all below.)
Other notable posts: EViLiSLuRKiNG, Pizzaice, omnitau, Zomby2D, Lifedreamer, TheCyberDruid, Sinovera, nlspeed911, GauRocks, Rhahael, jbondguy007, Thexder, naps420, Aquillion, ZooZoV, SSteve, RedCoats, Jekaterina
Thank you to everyone who's participated! The above lists may be updated as more posts are made.
Changelog:
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