KYIV (Reuters) - Ukraine opposes Canada handing over a turbine to Russia's state-controlled Gazprom for natural gas supplies to Germany as the move would contravene sanctions on Russia, a Ukrainian energy ministry source told Reuters on Thursday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-ukraine-urges-canada-not-hand-over-gas-turbine-russia-2022-07-07/ (if someone does not have full access, then here is the full article) https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-ukraine-urges-canada-not-212731665.html
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Russia-Ukraine war: Moscow politician gets 7 years for denouncing war
Using the term “war” is sabotage in the eyes of the Russian authorities, an elected Moscow councilor will be imprisoned for seven years for calling a war a war.
He held up a note in court stating: "Do you still need this war?"
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and another oligarch died under mysterious circumstances
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-gazprom-executive-dead-gas-energy-b2116135.html
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Yury Voronov, the head of a logistics company that held lucrative contracts with Gazprom, was found dead in a swimming pool at his home in a luxury suburb near St Petersburg.
With global warming, permafrost tends to melt, endangering logistics and infrastructure, as well as gas field reserves.
Major Russian energy producers such as Gazprom, Novatek and Norilsk Nickel could face a significant financial hit because of melting permafrost, according to a Morgan Stanley report obtained by the Russian business daily newspaper Vedomosti. The report noted that around 90 percent of Russia’s gas and diamonds, 30 percent of its oil, and all of its palladium reserves are in areas covered by permafrost.
The Kremlin wants safe resources like the Ukrainian coal mines.
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Major Russian energy producers such as Gazprom, Novatek and Norilsk Nickel could face a significant financial hit because of melting permafrost, according to a Morgan Stanley report obtained by the Russian business daily newspaper Vedomosti. The report noted that around 90 percent of Russia’s gas and diamonds, 30 percent of its oil, and all of its palladium reserves are in areas covered by permafrost.
The Kremlin wants safe resources like the Ukrainian coal mines.
And how is Coal and Palladium connected? Just different materials and they are used in different ways. Here is also Coal and Diamonds can be linked together, there is one element and it is Carbon, but it is difficult to link it with Palladium. Be so kind as to take an excursion into chemistry to understand this connection.
And so there are more increased mining costs with an increase in temperature due to global warming. There is no permafrost, the soils have become not so holding, this is more fuel and lubricants consumption, a higher load on equipment, which leads to a reduction in the repair interval, and these are additional spare parts and if the terrain was impassable before, then it will be necessary to attract additional dumping of the route, and this is the consumption of crushed stone and sand. It's just clear that this is a big expense and a financial blow.
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coal and palladium are both resources, you have to read precisely, he wrote that the Kremlin wants safe resources like...
no one asked about chemistry
increased mining costs are exactly what he was referring to, no need to elaborate this further
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coal and palladium are both resources, you have to read precisely, he wrote that the Kremlin wants safe resources like...
no one asked about chemistry
increased mining costs are exactly what he was referring to, no need to elaborate this further
And then how can Russia and Ukraine be connected here? It's just that if you carry coal, it's from Donbass, and this is the DPR, and even then the one who is engaged in logistics will count for a very long time. Here it is only for smelting ore, and here we need not simple coal (coal, oddly enough, is very different), but coking. For the extraction of gas and oil, this coal is not needed (liquid fuel from coal, this is still rubbish and it is used if there is no alternative), if used here, then to generate electricity, but at the same time there is an example of the floating power plant "Akademik Lomonosov". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akademik_Lomonosov https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/akademik-lomonosov-floating-npp/ https://vk.com/floating_npp (русский язык)
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https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/
https://www.renewablematter.eu/articles/article/ukraine-all-lithium-reserves-and-mineral-resources-in-war-zones
https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/Resources-and-power
this are just the results of a quick google search, there are way more resources than coal
let's assume the DPR will be occupied for a longer period of time, i would assume they will join russia and even if not, they don't have the money to develop these resources, so again russia comes into play
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This is good, but there is no subscription, the article is unavailable.
https://grom-ua.org/node/2165 It's about lithium, it's not that simple there.
this are just the results of a quick google search, there are way more resources than coal
let's assume the DPR will be occupied for a longer period of time, i would assume they will join russia and even if not, they don't have the money to develop these resources, so again russia comes into play
I will not argue, but how it is connected with the development of subsurface resources in the far North zone in Russia, which is what I asked a question about clarification. https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/6U7aghN and https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/NUAdg4h Development in Ukraine and development in Russia is still not very related, but here the topic is about Ukraine.
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i can read the first article just fine without subscription
about lithium, i said it was a quick search
no one asked about the development of resources in russia, it was a simple question and i already answered it with a simple answer, if you don't see the connection, i can't help you any further
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no one asked about the development of resources in russia, it was a simple question and i already answered it with a simple answer, if you don't see the connection, i can't help you any further
The Glorow report first talks about increasing the costs of developing the subsoil for the extraction of Gas, Oil and Palladium, and then comes the conclusion that the Kremlin needs cheap resources in the form of coal. So I asked to connect it somehow to understand the process, due to the fact that it is not very rational.
There was no talk about other resources. Don't take the conversation aside, please.
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The Kremlin wants safe resources like the Ukrainian coal mines.
there was no talk about other resources?
He just gave an example and i already explained the correlation to you, he could also have written, like the Ukrainian salt mines or like the Ukrainian whatever mines. You clearly missed a thing there
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there was no talk about other resources?
Please show me about my question about other resources, I didn’t write, it was your attempt to transfer the conversation to the mineral resources of Ukraine, away from Coal.
He just gave an example and i already explained the correlation to you, he could also have written, like the Ukrainian salt mines or like the Ukrainian whatever mines. You clearly missed a thing there
Here again is an attempt to translate the conversation into something else. Where is the answer about the connection with the murder in Russia and the coal mines?
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And how is Coal and Palladium connected?
you asked about the connection and i explained everything to you, if you don't understand or don't want to, i can't help you any further
Here again is an attempt to translate the conversation into something else. Where is the answer about the connection with the murder in Russia and the coal mines?
don't accuse me of things you do on a regular basis and were already warned about it
it doesn' mean deflecting, when you don't understand the discussion
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you asked about the connection and i explained everything to you, if you don't understand or don't want to, i can't help you any further
I even gave you a hint. "Norilsk Nickel". This holding produces 41% of all palladium raw materials in the world from copper-nickel deposits to obtain Palladium.
https://promzn.ru/metallurgiya/obogashheniya-palladiya.html
And here is even more, at the same time about the processing of enriched ore, and electricity is needed there, that’s the question, why bring Coal if you can put Akademik Lomonosov-2 next to it and get a lot of energy for 10 years?
don't accuse me of things you do on a regular basis and were already warned about it
it doesn' mean deflecting, when you don't understand the discussion
Well, you constantly evade the answer as to how the murder in Russia is connected with the coal mines, if the manager coordinated the actions in the far north. So I want to understand this connection. But there is no answer, and they began to invent other facts, although there is an answer.
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I even gave you a hint. "Norilsk Nickel". This holding produces 41% of all palladium raw materials in the world from copper-nickel deposits to obtain Palladium.
https://promzn.ru/metallurgiya/obogashheniya-palladiya.html
And here is even more, at the same time about the processing of enriched ore, and electricity is needed there, that’s the question, why bring Coal if you can put Akademik Lomonosov-2 next to it and get a lot of energy for 10 years?
i'm not here for solving puzzles, when you talk off-topic about metallurgy, but i will repeat myself:
coal and palladium are both resources, you have to read precisely, he wrote that the Kremlin wants safe resources like...
no one asked about chemistry or metallurgy
no one talked about bringing coal to permafrost, except of you
increased mining costs are exactly what he was referring to, no need to elaborate this further
there may be no alternative with palladium, but Ukraine has other resources, which are easier accessible than russian ressources in the permafrost, that was the crucial point, as i explained before and you still don't get it
Well, you constantly evade the answer as to how the murder in Russia is connected with the coal mines, if the manager coordinated the actions in the far north. So I want to understand this connection. But there is no answer, and they began to invent other facts, although there is an answer.
As i already explained to you, i haven't discussed this topic with you and i think it's my right to not give any answer, if i don't want to discuss this topic with you, also this isn't related in the slightest to deflecting the discussion, but on the other hand you're deflecting AGAIN
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i'm not here for solving puzzles, when you talk off-topic about metallurgy, but i will repeat myself:
coal and palladium are both resources, you have to read precisely, he wrote that the Kremlin wants safe resources like...
no one asked about chemistry or metallurgy
no one talked about bringing coal to permafrost, except of you
No, it was written about the murder of a manager, after a link to his projects, and then just a conclusion about coal, that's just this question so far unanswered. I just don’t see the connection, unless there was a desire to write about the murder, and then drag in any reason related to Ukraine.
As i already explained to you, i haven't discussed this topic with you and i think it's my right to not give any answer, if i don't want to discuss this topic with you, also this isn't related in the slightest to deflecting the discussion, but on the other hand you're deflecting AGAIN
Due to the fact that there is no answer, but it cannot be admitted, then this discussion will be lost immediately and it will be clear that it was just a stuffing about a murder not related to Ukraine.
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don't cite me about one thing and then talk again about the murder, which i've already said i don't want to discuss with you
but, if you really want to know the connection, the connection is how russia is treating it's people, but i doubt you would understand this, as you already had problems in the past with understanding things and then talking about other stuff
funny how you suddenly advocate for not discussing russian matters here, when you were the ones, who introduced it and were told many times to go to RAT
Due to the fact that there is no answer, but it cannot be admitted, then this discussion will be lost immediately and it will be clear that it was just a stuffing about a murder not related to Ukraine.
yeah, sure
and i already answered it above, that's really funny how you suddenly advocate for not discussing russian matters here
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don't cite me about one thing and then talk again about the murder, which i've already said i don't want to discuss with you
but, if you really want to know the connection, the connection is how russia is treating it's people, but i doubt you would understand this, as you already had problems in the past with understanding things and then talking about other stuff
funny how you suddenly vouch for not discussing russian matters here, when you were the ones, who introduced it and were told many times to go to RAT
Everything is clear, the arguments have run out. We switch to SPAM mode, hoping that they will lag behind, but at the same time showing that there is no answer to the question and there will not be one.
yeah, sure
and i already answered it above, that's really funny how you suddenly vouch for not discussing russian matters here
As for the Russian questions, I didn't say that. It was already and there was an answer that it was only about Ukraine. Give a link?
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Everything is clear, the arguments have run out. We switch to SPAM mode, hoping that they will lag behind, but at the same time showing that there is no answer to the question and there will not be one.
what are you talking about? I clearified about the connection and i think i explained it to you before, it's not spam, if you don't understand it, also funny how you accuse me of spam, when you are the one citing me and then suddenly start talking about other things, but i guess it's according to the rule book to accuse the other side of your own crimes, at least this is what russia does
As for the Russian questions, I didn't say that. It was already and there was an answer that it was only about Ukraine. Give a link?
your translator sucks, i don't understand this mumbo jumbo, about what do you want a link?
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your translator sucks, i don't understand this mumbo jumbo, about what do you want a link?
Please https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/8qIkbnc and https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/HvHpSBf
what are you talking about? I clearified about the connection and i think i explained it to you before, it's not spam, if you don't understand it, also funny how you accuse me of spam, when you are the one citing me and then suddenly start talking about other things, but i guess it's according to the rule book to accuse the other side of your own crimes, at least this is what russia does
But there is still no answer to my question, after that there were a lot of diversions to the side of the question, and then another attempt to transfer to SPAM, so I'm waiting for an answer. How is the murder in Russia connected to Ukraine if the manager controlled the development in the far north?
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It's simple, there is no permafrost in Ukraine.
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/7XiL67R
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The question is not just this, how is the increased expenditure of funds during the development of the subsoil from the far North with permafrost connected with Ukraine, as I recalled MSKOTOR https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/HvHpSBf
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https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/7XiL67R
Another Russian oligarch was murdered because the Kremlin wanted to hide something. He was the head of a logistics company that held lucrative contracts with Gazprom. Gazprom is the largest natural gas company in the world and Russia's largest company by revenue.
90 percent of Russia’s gas reserves are in areas covered by permafrost. With global warming, permafrost tends to melt, endangering logistics and infrastructure, as well as gas field reserves. Russian gas exploitation and reserves could be ruined by melting permafrost.
There is no permafrost in Ukraine. The Kremlin wants safe resources like the Ukrainian coal mines.
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Another Russian oligarch was murdered because the Kremlin wanted to hide something. He was the head of a logistics company that held lucrative contracts with Gazprom. Gazprom is the largest natural gas company in the world and Russia's largest company by revenue.
So how is the murder in Russia connected with the topic about Ukraine?
https://www.gazprom.com/ If you really want to give a link to the company, then let's go to their official address on the Internet.
90 percent of Russia’s gas reserves are in areas covered by permafrost. With global warming, permafrost tends to melt, endangering logistics and infrastructure, as well as gas field reserves.
The fact that melting occurs and logistics becomes more complicated, there is no dispute, but at the same time a pipe must be laid for the delivery of Gas and Oil and for this a pipelayer is used that either runs on diesel fuel or a gasoline generator is used for welding polypropylene pipes. And so I repeat my question again - "What does a coal mine with coal have to do with it?"
Russian gas exploitation and reserves could be ruined by melting permafrost.
If there is production, then the extracted resources are transported for processing through a pipe, and not transported by fuel trucks, if they are lucky, it is more economically advantageous to carry by train, and this is a one-time action for laying communication routes.
There is no permafrost in Ukraine. The Kremlin wants safe resources like the Ukrainian coal mines.
If there is a gas thermal power plant, then it is very difficult to convert it to coal, this is a complete replacement of the main unit, there are completely different parameters.
So the question remained open - "How will coal help in the development of the subsoil of the far North".
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If there is a gas thermal power plant, then it is very difficult to convert it to coal, this is a complete replacement of the main unit, there are completely different parameters.
So the question remained open - "How will coal help in the development of the subsoil of the far North".
no one asked about this, if he had used salt as an example instead of coal, you would be telling us about industrial uses of salt
If there is production, then the extracted resources are transported for processing through a pipe, and not transported by fuel trucks, if they are lucky, it is more economically advantageous to carry by train, and this is a one-time action for laying communication routes.
you didn't mentioned the crucial point here, if the ground isn't stable, because of melting permafrost, everything above the ground will break, pipelines, tracks, houses, like after an earthquake, it's not about transportation per se, it's about the effects of the melting permafrost on transportation and how it will be difficult and causes a lot ot extra costs
It's also not about the developement of resources in the permafrost and on which fuels a pipelayer runs, it's about the difficulties with a melting ground and Ukraine got no melting ground, so everything about resources would be easier
you should stick to your own requests, and not start talking about chemistry, general transportation or development of resources, when the talk was about how the Kremlin wants safe resources
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no one asked about this, if he had used salt as an example instead of coal, you would be telling us about industrial uses of salt
Good way to translate to another discussion. The question is open - "How is the murder in Russia connected with the mines in the Donbas?" That's what I want to get. So far, all I see is off topic. Otherwise, I’ll start writing all the news here, if Ukraine is at least slightly involved there, and if this is not the case, then I’ll just come up with a reason.
you didn't mentioned the crucial point here, if the ground isn't stable, because of melting permafrost, everything above the ground will break, pipelines, tracks, houses, like after an earthquake, it's not about transportation per se, it's about the effects of the melting permafrost on transportation and how it will be difficult and causes a lot ot extra costs
Sorry, but first clarify how all the buildings are made taking into account the soil, there will be a lot of interesting information.
And what will happen to the pipeline that is lying, just lying.
It's also not about the developement of resources in the permafrost and on which fuels a pipelayer runs, it's about the difficulties with a melting ground and Ukraine got no melting ground, so everything about resources would be easier
Smelting is needed for ores, but not all furnaces can be put all the ore, more special furnaces are needed, it’s easier not to melt aluminum (alumina or bauxite ore for its extraction), but to extract it by electrolysis, then the metal yield is many times greater. And sometimes it's more interesting to smelt on the spot, and not to carry "Norilsk Nickel" doesn't tell you anything?
you should stick to your own requests, and not start talking about chemistry, general transportation or development of resources, when the talk was about how the Kremlin wants safe resources
There is only one request, I constantly highlight it. He is singled out again.
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The question is open - "How is the murder in Russia connected with the mines in the Donbas?"
you ask the wrong guy, i haven't discussed this matter with you, please stop bothering me
Smelting is needed for ores, but not all furnaces can be put all the ore, more special furnaces are needed, it’s easier not to melt aluminum (alumina or bauxite ore for its extraction), but to extract it by electrolysis, then the metal yield is many times greater. And sometimes it's more interesting to smelt on the spot, and not to carry "Norilsk Nickel" doesn't tell you anything?
wow, i talked about melting ground and you start talking about smelting ores, i think i will report this one
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you ask the wrong guy, i haven't discussed this matter with you, please stop bothering me
Well, you wrote to me, so I'm asking you, although such an answer could have been given from the very beginning.
wow, i talked about melting ground and you start about smelting ores, i think i will report this one
Well, actually, Alumina is the earth, it’s true that tomatoes don’t want to grow there, but it’s the earth.
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Here is a 22 minutes report from a very reliable source of german press about the war crimes in Bucha, link from youtube, so you can use subtitles
the footage contains explicit content, viewer discretion is advised
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_AEYHwXT14
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Der Spiegel is a German weekly news magazine published in Hamburg.[1] With a weekly circulation of 695,100 copies, it is the largest such publication in Europe.
Der Spiegel is known in German-speaking countries mostly for its investigative journalism. It has played a key role in uncovering many political scandals...
Der Spiegel has a distinctive reputation for revealing political misconduct and scandals. Online Encyclopædia Britannica emphasizes this quality of the magazine as follows: "The magazine is renowned for its aggressive, vigorous, and well-written exposés of government malpractice and scandals."[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Spiegel
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idk, what's up with the dates, but if you look closely at the footage, there is a guy with a scooter, which can be seen on 18-03 and 19-03, same yellow car in the background only the orientation of the gate changed and the shadows moved a bit
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The work of the surveillance camera is rigidly prescribed and it goes with the indication of time. This is done just for the convenience of monitoring the time of the incident and monitoring by preliminary inspection. Thus, a good security service can detect bad surveillance if there is no change of cars that take part in the surveillance. Or when conducting investigative actions (questioning witnesses and viewing surveillance camera recordings), it is possible to more accurately determine the time of the incident.
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you can also see the guy with the scooter on the sixth snippet, standing near the pillar, so you see the same guy on 18-03 and 19-03, could be a coincidence, but i rather conclude it shows the same meeting and there is just something wrong with the timestamps
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you can see at 18:22 that the van left after 3 minutes at 14:05
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i just told you what i saw, maybe you weren't aware of it, because it came later in the report
When timestamps are broken, why do you use it as proof?
what are you aiming for, because i see no justification to discuss this any further
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Also strikes on schools. But unfortunately this is because the Ukrainian army uses schools, malls, houses of culture as bases for deploying troops and weapons.
https://t.me/ZE_kartel/5524
https://t.me/cherniy_kvartal/5361
https://t.me/ASupersharij/9922
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Fuck russia, and fuck you for rationalizing atrocities it's doing. There would be no casualties if russia didn't start this shit.
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I guess you meant to say that there would have been no casualties if the US had not carried out an armed coup and started killing Russian-speaking Ukrainians on the East using their puppet government.
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Once again, there was no such thing. Nobody died until fucking russia came to Donbass and started the warfare.
So, kindly fuck off with your false narrative, will ya? Get shit right in your own country first.
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Once again, there was no such thing. Nobody died until fucking russia came to Donbass and started the warfare.
So, kindly fuck off with your false narrative, will ya? Get shit right in your own country first.
It's already happened.
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/owCZogi
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How convenient. Send an army against civilians after armed coup d'état, and then say that they themselves are to blame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BByWnEuxCDM&ab_channel=southset
P.S. Very interesting comment what me to do in my own country, which is Ukraine by the way, from bot who even don't know how to write capital of Ukraine correct
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Напишу так, чтобы ты понял. Свои методички можешь в жопу себе засунуть, никого ваши ебанутые выдумки не убедят.
Хватит засорять тред вместе с остальными рашкоботами, их и так хватает.
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What about Ukrainian children? Let me guess, they grow up to be soldiers, that's why the Russian army kills them.
343 children had died as a result of Russia's months-long assault on Ukraine
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And why you didn't count children killed by Ukrainian army on the East? Oh, right, you think that they must die.
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You mean "children of Donbass", the Russian argument. I believe most of them never existed, it's just propaganda work. It's like the "Crucified boy", the name of a false anti-Ukrainian atrocity propaganda story which was disseminated in Russia in July 2014, during the war in Donbas.
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Maybe for you, living in ukrainian propaganda world it is "Crucified boy".
But the first thing that comes to my mind is Kira Zhuk with her mother Christina (WARNING! You can find photos of dead child and women if google it)
Here are more names for you
https://www.5-tv.ru/news/131659/
If you need more, you can just google it. I believe in you, it's not so hard
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Like I said, I believe most of them never existed. But maybe your story about Kira Zhuk and her mother Christina really happened. This is a story from 2014.
With the Russian special military operation, there are a lot of dead children and women (you can google it), you are the one supporting these killings.
343 children had died as a result of Russia's months-long assault on Ukraine
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you are the one supporting these killings.
Are you idiot? Did I say somewhere that I support the killing of children and civilians? I just want to show you that you completely ignore the other side of conflict.
Ukraine killed a lot of civillians and children during her so called Anti Terrorist Operation.
But when Russia started their own operation to stop it, you suddenly didn't like it.
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Putin's sсum seeks for any negligible reason to justify their attack and invasion of the neighboor as always.
They killed thousands of peaceful russian citizens in Donbass!!1 Wait what, where did I got these numbers? Putin's TV is really truthful for me
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Yep, nobody died during last 8 years in DNR and LNR, all these is Putin's propaganda
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Someone died in Crimea during Putin's invasion in 2014 -> that was a good reason to bomb Putin's sсum like you already so your 8 years excuse is just miserable
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You support the Russian special military operation, which is causing thousands of deaths. So, yes, you support the killings.
Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War / 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine
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The main reason that happened - Putin's Russia and vatnicks wanted "to repeat 1941-1945". But this time they play a role of Hitler troops.
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Ukraine Foreign Ministry blasts Rep. Victoria Spartz's ‘cynical’ allegations
https://frontnews.eu/en/news/details/35548
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/09/ukraine-foreign-ministry-blasts-rep-victoria-spartzs-cynical-allegations-00044860 https://www.axios.com/2022/07/09/ukraine-victoria-spartz-zelensky-allegations
A few links to choose who is more comfortable to go and read.
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are ukranians still dying, because of their puppet-president? what a hero selenskyj is. a true rolemodel
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... says the puppet citizen, not allowed to say "war" about the situation in Ukraine.
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i am no russian, dude. in my country there are a lot more words, im not allowed to say.
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Armes Ostdeutschland. Muss verdammt weh tun ein blöder Nazi zu sein.
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du bist in deinem gesammten leben noch keinem nazi begegnet. und hast anscheinend nicht mitbekommen, dass es kein ostdeutschland mehr gibt. aber bei begrenzter hirnaktivität ist das kein wunder. schande überdich und diejenigen, welche dich so kleingeistig erzogen haben
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Lass mich raten, du hörst böhse onkelz und wählst afd? Sagt doch eigentlich schon dein Name und deine selten dämliche Aussage, dass man in deinem Land nichts sagen kann. Nur gut, dass man in deinem Land so dumpfbackige Querdenker-Arschgeigen, die es zu nichts im Leben gebracht haben ausser sich über alles und jeden auszukotzen, um vom eigenen Versagen abzulenken, nicht grundlos in ein Loch sperrt, wie man es in Russland oder sonst wo täte. Noch mal Glück gehabt, dass du sagen und schreiben kannst was du willst, lieber Ricardo aus dem armen Osten.
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naja, er könnte auch nen Linker sein, welcher sich gerne die DDR zurückwünscht
aber eigtl. auch egal, denn beide Enden des politischen Spektrums sind Schmutz
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Du solltest mal sehen was der in der Vergangenheit über Deutschland geschrieben hat.
Aber zumindest muss man sich nicht wundern dass er die Lage in der Ukraine nicht rational einschätzen kann, wo doch schon sein Blick auf das Heimatland komplett gaga ist.
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kann ja nicht jeder blind seinen führer folgen. aber schön, fremdenhass steht dir gur.
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Was hatte mein Beitrag bitte mit Fremdenhass zu tun?
Aber egal, ist nur ein weiteres Beispiel dafür dass du nur kompletten Unsinn wiedergeben kannst. Nicht dass es da noch weiterer Beispiele bedurft hätte.
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Vollkommen am Beitrag des Vorredners vorbei und nebenbei mit reichlich schlechter Grammatik sowie Rechtschreibung. Und so einer will mir was von begrenzter Hirnaktivität erzählen :D
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You are true Putin's tovarisch! Deceiving West tries to rob and use you to attack peacetul Putin's Rodina
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What are you aiming for? The bravery medal of pro-Putin foreign trolls?
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Agreed. How dare he not surrender to a nazi that wants the whole Ukrainian nation eradicated. Truly, what a horrible president he is.
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Yeah, right. Millions of ukrainians have died since Russia started invasion. Or not?
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Peaceful Putin's troops are just trying to demilitarize ukranian cities and homes by their peacemaking bombs (with peace like in a tomb)
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Not even sure if I should answer to some stupid bot or not. But oh well.
Casualties reports highly varies as it is impossible to determine the exact numbers during an ongoing war. Still, Ukraine claims 10'000 to 30'000 civilians have been killed. UN claims at least 5000 have been killed and 6000 have been wounded.
Around 10'000'000 Ukrainians became refugees.
But then again, you don't need to kill anyone to eradicate a 'nation'. You'll just have to apply the same tactics USSR used when conquering new territories - forced relocation. Force natives and anyone opposing you to scatter across vast areas, settle loyal citizens in their stead. Step by step eradicate their culture and history and you're a'll good.
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you guys are the reason, the word "nazi" doesn't have any meaning anymore.
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Hm? Not the Putin and his propaganda? OK.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/07/02/world/europe/ukraine-nazis-russia-media.html
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Yep, there are no nazi in Ukraine. Then explain who is this?
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Where do you dumbasses even getting that 'no nazi in Ukraine'? There are. As well as there are ones in Russia. Or US. Or literally in any other country.
Russia has been almost dead silent about nazis in Ukraine for the past 8 years but as soon as Pootin used 'nazi' as an excuse for his invasion coincidentally every single state media started posting about nazis.
Oh, and should I even bring up that Crimea annex and continuous LDNR separatists funding became the main reasons why Ukrainians started hating Russians?
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The most interesting is that you believe in that bullshit that you wrote.
Russia has been almost dead silent about nazis in Ukraine for the past 8 years but as soon as Pootin used 'nazi' as an excuse for his invasion coincidentally every single state media started posting about nazis.
Quick check shows that you lied.
Russian media wrote about nazi in Ukraine in 2014
https://rg.ru/2014/02/23/ukraina-site.html
in 2015
https://ria.ru/20141025/1030502474.html
in 2016
https://russian.rt.com/article/71986
and so on
https://ria.ru/20171203/1510097378.html
https://russian.rt.com/ussr/article/507532-kongress-ssha-ukraina-antisemitism-obvineniye
https://rg.ru/2021/08/23/po-ulicam-ukrainskih-gorodov-marshiruiut-nacisty.html
if you noticed them just now doesn't mean that everyone else didn't see them before.
Oh, and should I even bring up that Crimea annex and continuous LDNR separatists funding became the main reasons why Ukrainians started hating Russians?
In Ukraine, in the western regions, there were calls to cut Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians long before Crimea and the LDNR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzaGC_DsJG4&ab_channel=vgolos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSGqlV65TwI&ab_channel=Patriot2203
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQli5Eo8rGI&ab_channel=UltrasDynamoKyivTV
But when in 2013-2014 they seized weapons at military bases in western Ukraine they moved from words to actions. Then, in Crimea, the Crimean parliament turned to Russia with a request to protect its citizens, and troops were sent there, and Crimea joined Russia following the results of the REFERENDUM. Donetsk and Luhansk regions have a different legal status under the Constitution of Ukraine (unlike the Autonomous Republic of Crimea), and, as far as I understand, according to international law, Russia could not send its troops there directly as in Crimea. They sent many humanitarian convoys there. Here is the news about 102nd(!!!) humanitarian convoy for example ( https://lenta.ru/news/2021/08/12/convoy/ ). If Russia sent there troops before 2022, I think all the media would write about it, but as we can see, there was silence for 8 years. On Feb 19, 2022 Zelensky told that he is going to withdraw from the Budapest Memorandum, which means that Ukraine is going to create nuclear weapon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2xE84Yt1WE&ab_channel=MichaelRossiPoliSci Timecode: 15.10-15.27). I suppose this action triggered Putin to start his military operation (in the same way like in 2003 information about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq triggered the US)
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The most interesting is that you believe in that bullshit that you wrote.
.
Russia has been almost dead silent
You need a pair of glasses or what? Even in NY Times article the graph isn't at zero.
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As for the second part, yeah right, nitpicking convenient cases is a way to go :-)
Should we include Russian authorities here as well like now dead Zhirinovsky who used to call for a nuclear strikes on US? That's a criminal act (several actually) according to Russian laws.
Crimea joined Russia following the results of the REFERENDUM
The question is, what right does Russia have to hold such a referendum and dispatch its troops to ensure referendum's 'safety'. Oh right, it wasn't about Russian territory, that's why it's 'legitimate'. When the referendum about independence takes place inside Russia or its allied countries - should we call them 'satellites'? - the results can been seen in Chechnya (1994) and Karakalpakstan (2022).
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On Feb 19, 2022 Zelensky told that he is going to withdraw from the Budapest Memorandum, which means that Ukraine is going to create nuclear weapon
Yeah, since Russia broke the memorandum already what's the point for Ukraine to keep following it? Memorandum states that Ukraine won't have any nuclear weapon as long as its independence and sovereignty in the existing borders is guaranteed and there is no threat or use of force against it.
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The question is, what right does Russia have to hold such a referendum and dispatch its troops to ensure referendum's 'safety'.
You may not be strong in Ukrainian legislation, but it was carried out by the Crimean authorities, which have the right to do so under the constitution of Ukraine since it was an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine
the results can been seen in Chechnya (1994)
Seems like history realy isn't your strong side. In fact Chechnya was independent since 1991. In 1994, there was an internal political crisis inside, in which the Russian government supported one of the parties
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You may not be strong in Ukrainian legislation, but it was carried out by the Crimean authorities, which have the right to do so under the constitution of Ukraine since it was an Autonomous Republic within Ukraine
So why isn't Wiki telling this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
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https://www.president.gov.ua/ua/documents/constitution/konstituciya-ukrayini-rozdil-h
Here's the constitution of Ukraine. You can study it since you are so interested in this question
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it says Crimea is an integral part of Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_of_the_Republic_of_Crimea
In Ukraine's constitution, the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol are recognised as integral parts of Ukraine, and changes to the territory of Ukraine is possible only after the relevant result of an All-Ukrainian referendum.[4][5]
https://www.cfr.org/interview/why-crimean-referendum-illegitimate
My conclusion after reading all of this is, you lied
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Article 135:
Regulatory acts of the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and decisions of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea cannot contradict the Constitution and laws of Ukraine
maybe they can hold local referenda, but it obviously doesn't count for a referendum for independence, because it would contradict with the constitution of Ukraine
doubling down on debunking
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Again. Read closer Article 138.
Also
Стаття 134. Автономна Республіка Крим є невід'ємною складовою частиною України і в межах повноважень, визначених Конституцією України, вирішує питання, віднесені до її відання.
So nothing contradicts in the constitution of Ukraine
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https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/b3aDiEn
obviously holding a referendum about the independece is not within the limits, because it contradicts with being an integral part of Ukraine
but i'm repeating myself and you don't seem to have any substantial arguments for your claim
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I told you third time, everything about it is written in article 138. This is competention of Crimea. It doesn't contradict Constitution of Ukraine, because it's written in it. For other parts of Ukraine it must be All-Ukrainian referendum. Therefore in DNR and LNR situation is different then in Crimea.
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it won't turn lies into truth, when you tell the same lie a thousand times and it's not just about me, look closely at my links, even 100 states think the same way, the United Nations made a resolution, so who is the one being wrong here?
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Seems like jurisprudence your weak part too.
Стаття 138. До відання Автономної Республіки Крим належить:
2) організація та проведення місцевих референдумів;
7) участь у забезпеченні прав і свобод громадян, національної злагоди, сприяння охороні правопорядку та громадської безпеки;
10) ініціювання введення надзвичайного стану та встановлення зон надзвичайної екологічної ситуації в Автономній Республіці Крим або в окремих її місцевостях.
Законами України Автономній Республіці Крим можуть бути делеговані також інші повноваження.
And this part
Стаття 139. В Автономній Республіці Крим діє Представництво Президента України, статус якого визначається законом України.
In 2014 the President of Ukraine was Yanukovich. Also there was anti-constitutional armed coup d'état in Ukraine. But Yanukovich was steel legal President of Ukraine. Statements about its illegitimacy do not stand up to scrutiny. Read articles 108, 109, 110, 111, 112 of Constitution of Ukraine. So legal President of Ukraine asked Russian President to protect people there
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Letter_from_Yanukovych_to_Putin_%282014-03-01%29_05.jpg/800px-Letter_from_Yanukovych_to_Putin_%282014-03-01%29_05.jpg
Who cares that the unconstitutional government does not recognize this.
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Also, it was not coup d'état, as there was no military intervention
A coup d'état is not necessarily an invasion by third countries. The fact that a gang of bandits seized power with weapons does not make them legal and constitutional
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With that I agree. That is exactly what happened in Donbas.
Also exactly what happend in Kyiv
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Then according to your logic every time when president move to another country we should say that "he relived himself from duties by fleeing the country in a scenario that is not mentioned in the Constitution" and go take government buildings and choose new president from our gang. Very comfortable. Seems like you do not understand how you think and how it suits to your worldview, trying to change reality of things.
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Yanukovych had reached an agreement with the opposition and should have simply waited for results of the vote on article of impeachment that could have ended in his favor.
This is true
But then he fled and declared that he should remain president in any case. It is not just "moving to another country", he literally fled from impeachment and prosecution.
And here you lied. 21 Feb 2014, the day when agreement were singed, at the same day opposition violated the agreements, and captured government buildings.
Hilarious answer. :D
Yeah, your answers are very hilarious ^_^
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Again, after few hours after agreements were singed opposition violated the agreements.
As you mention
Not "opposition", but those dissatisfied among protesters.
Simple question for you. Who led these protesters?
Don't confuse cause and effect. The opposition violated the agreements and therefore Yanukovych fled. And not Yanukovych fled and therefore the opposition opposition violated the agreements and seized power
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Volodymyr Parasyuk and Dmytro Yarosh, who were not signees of the Agreement and were dissatisfied by it because it didn't mention Yanukovych's immediate resignation.
And who led them? Maybe leaders of opposition? Or they were stand alone leaders? Then why in this case weren't they present at the drafting of the agreement? Why didn’t they leave their signatures, since they are such important protest leaders?
Also you completely forgot about this part of agreement
5) The authority will not impose a state of emergency. The government and the opposition will refrain from the use of force
I suppose I answered the question who violated agreements and we can close this discussion
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those were protesters that made their own decisions
And their leaders were Vitali Klitschko (Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform), Arseniy Yatsenyuk (All-Ukrainian Union "Fatherland") and Oleh Tyahnybok (Svoboda).If any of their wards violates the agreement, this means that this party violates the agreement. Seems for you it's hard to understand.
We don't know what would have happened If Yanukovych signed the special law, but most probably the conflict would have eventually dissolved.
Also we know what would happend there. Those "radicals" (but I still prefer to call the Nazis as Nazis) just simply killed Yanukovich that night. Like there friends did the same in Libya with Gaddafi.
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Klitschko, Yatsenyuk, and Tyahnybok became protest leaders in the process and they certainly could not reason with everybody in the crowd.
They represented protesters in those agreements. Maybe word opposition triggered you to much.Then I say in other words.
On 21 Feb 2014, Yanukovich and protesters singed agreements. And later that night protesters violated the agreements.
Is it ok with such words?
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Seems for bot like you is hard to follow the conversation
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Putin's bot and fan like you can't convict free people for their opinion that they allegedly sold out to Biden, Scholz, Macron, etc. simply because democracies do not engage in such sсummy tactics as the Putin liberators
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUAQjKQWIAEwau8.jpg
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here's the UN resolution about Crimea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_68/262
and we already discussed russian mercenary nazis here:
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/g6qqngD
If Russia sent there troops before 2022, I think all the media would write about it, but as we can see, there was silence for 8 years.
cement cited me (https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/BQw9dUL), where we spoke about 4000 dead russians in Donbass between 2014 and 2021, one of you isn't telling the truth, i'm confused
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where we spoke about 4000 dead russians in Donbass between 2014 and 2021
I think it will not be difficult for you to find the number of dead French, Americans, Poles, Georgians etc fighting on the side of the Ukrainian army. So what are we going to consider these countries as parties to the conflict?
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cement cited me (https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/BQw9dUL), where we spoke about 4000 dead russians in Donbass between 2014 and 2021, one of you isn't telling the truth, i'm confused
died in Russia in a Special operation
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special operation between 2014 and 2021?
No, in 2022. Simply, if you want to take my data, then indicate them in full, and without substitution to other numbers.
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no one talked about 2022
you cited me and not the other way round and if you follow the links you would see, that i talked about 2014-2021
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To which I said that I made a mistake and made a correction. And so the loss of Russia from 2014 to February 22, 2022 is 0 people. There was no Russia on the territory of Ukraine. Moreover, the court of Ukraine recognized this.
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To which I said that I made a mistake and made a correction
I'm sorry, i obviously missed that one, can you please give me a link?
And so the loss of Russia from 2014 to February 22, 2022 is 0 people. There was no Russia on the territory of Ukraine.
i see, Buk is obviously not a russian weapon system and it wasn't transfered over the border
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I'm sorry, i obviously missed that one, can you please give me a link?
please https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/8PrR5EO "died in Russia in a Special operation".
i see, Buk is obviously not a russian weapon system and it wasn't transfered over the border
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/G7XsUm4 For a long time I asked for a video on transportation
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please https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/8PrR5EO "died in Russia in a Special operation".
okay, maybe don't inflate everything to hell, when you can't follow discussions and giving spam answers, when the talk was about 2014-2021, but what else should i expect, when you already did it multiple times in the past and was already warned about it
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/G7XsUm4 For a long time I asked for a video on transportation
you could have found it yourself, if you would have read the wiki, but here you go, defending my diploma in debunking russian trolls
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44235402
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/05/24/europe/mh17-plane-netherlands-russia-intl/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/ukraine-sightings-missile-launcher-mh17?CMP=twt_gu
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29109398
https://web.archive.org/web/20141009123439/http://bigstory.ap.org/article/what-happened-day-flight-17-was-downed
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2016/05/03/the_lost_digit/
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you could have found it yourself, if you would have read the wiki, but here you go, defending my diploma in debunking russian trolls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDOEi0aW8jI on the https://youtu.be/L4HJmev5xg0
The distance between the alleged Ukrainian security services place a missile launch and the point of contact with Boeing - more maximum range BUK (SA11) complex lesions. The height at which flew Boeing, was not available for review radar BUK.
When BUK shotdown Boeing? 13.18 UTC - 13.19.56 UTC
We know the coordinates of the last signal transponder aircraft - in 13.18 UTC (16.18 in Kyiv) Boeing flew over Gorlovka position N48.28 E38.08 (source http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0 ) in two minutes Boeing disappeared from radar.
Avherald - the most accurate resource for all aviation accident rates in the world. He points to 13.18 last position - this time span Gorlovki - Yenakievo.
There are also indications Flightradar and decoding of flight recorders on Dutch Safety Board report (no longer available), which are the mark of the last response crew 13.19.56 (time-of-flight Yenakievo- Krasny Kluch, the nearest place Novoorlovka). 48.1767 38.3866 - it geodata site Flightradar, fixed in 13.19.16 UTC - 40 seconds after that, the crew according to the voice recorder stopped responding - it was near the villages Perropavlovka, Novoorlovka and Krasny Kluch.
Place an alleged missile launch complex BUK was established on the picture of the SBU, the entire image is published recently in the Netherlands (sourse removed but still available http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/evanesce_girl/8305736/15322/15322_original.jpg http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/evanesce_girl/8305736/15920/15920_original.jpg). According to the SBU, the launch was made on July 17 in the area of Thorez.
British journalists from the Daily Telegraph found the place where it was burned land – around Pervomayskij, in the field.
Coordinates were later established Ukrainian bloggers. 47.973970, 38.764119
We are aware of the details of the SBU and the testimony of the photographer that the survey was conducted in a minute after the attack on the plane from one of the balconies of houses located on the outskirts of Thorez, in the third district.
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/evanesce_girl/8305736/16135/16135_original.jpg
1- Lutugin Mine 2- Torez 3rd Microdistrict 3- Telman Street 4- Kommunarov Street 5- Kiselyov Central Processing Plant (TsOF)
Would get if the BUK to Boeing?
Calculate the distance between Boeing and beech at the time of the defeat of the rocket. If you put the coordinates of the aircraft from the last position of the transponder 13.18 UTC and coordinates installation BUK on the First at the map, we get the missile range - 61 km.
Assuming that Boeing was struck by a missile in 13.19.56 UTC, after answering crew dispatcher between the aircraft and the Pervomayskij was already 25 km.
Boeing flies in minute 15 kilometers, per second - 250 m. The speed missile 800-850 m / s during the active phase of flight, she flew 25 km to the aircraft for more than 30 seconds. (Hours rocket engine may be, depending on the it kind of from 15 to 20). In the characteristics of a missile system indicated that the reaction of BUK from the moment of capture target before the shot - another 22 seconds. Total 52.
During the time after pressing militias "Start" button and the missile to the target aircraft flew 13.7 km. That is, when the calculation of beech launched a rocket, Boeing was from him in 39 km.
CONCLUSION: The set us away from Boeing before May horizontally at the time of the missile and the defeat of beech - from 39 to 60 km. A maximum range missiles BUK-M1 - 32 km.
And even if Boeing is even closer to the time of the missile strike - 13.20.03 UTC, the probability of hitting the target at an altitude of 10 km and removal of more than 20 km - only 30-40%.
BUK not seen BOEING
If we start from the rules of a right triangle, then at the height of the aircraft (leg) 10 km and a maximum range of lesions (hypotenuse) 45 km, the angle is 12 degrees, and the ground range to the BUK - 43 km.
However, the radar installation 9А310М1 operating in standalone mode, could not detect aircraft at such parameters.
According to the characteristics of the radar 9S35, mounted on self-propelled units, the detection range at an altitude of 3000m up to 70km, but the radar field of view in elevation of all 6..7 degrees (at the station Tube Arm - 40 degrees).
Apply the formula of a right triangle. Calculate the altitude was supposed to fly Boeing to radar could detect it at a distance of 45 km. Leg is the hypotenuse multiplied by the sine of the opposite angle. 45 km leg angle 7. At this boundary hitting the target aircraft had to fly at a height of not more than 4.5 km, to be visible to radar. Even on the far border 70 km radar sees only at an altitude of 7 km. However, Boeing was flying at an altitude of 10 km.
P.S. The official report by the Dutch Safety Board indicated another point position Boeing - last FDR 13.20.03 UTC - in the area of Petropavlovka.
However, FDR - is the end of the flight, not the beginning of the development of on-board emergency. We know, for example, that in 2001, after being hit by a rocket S-200 in the Tu-154 plane over the Black Sea, flight recorders recorded negotiations between the pilots: "anywhere? ", And it is known that at a height of 6 Km of the pilot of another aircraft have been falling Tu-154 in three minutes after being hit by a rocket.
Breakage parametric recorder records in 13.20.03 UTC, which fixes the operation of the main components and assemblies does not mean instant destruction Boeing. After the rocket hit it continued flight, the destruction of structures began only at a height of 2 thousand m.
And only 25 minutes after the break, in 13.45 UTC - Boeing load warning light, which indicates the crash site. The last point is fixed later flight than the occurrence of an emergency on board, there is no contradiction.
https://evanesce-girl.livejournal.com/77943.html
I'm just too lazy to write if it's been there for a long time. And so TELAR without SOTs 9S18 Kupol has a very small detection range. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Buk-M1-2_9S18M1-1.JPG/800px-Buk-M1-2_9S18M1-1.JPG (9S18 Kupol)
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It is not very clear what you wanted to say with this message, please make a more understandable message.
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i see you cited pretty strong points from very reliable sources, like russian propaganda and some blog from a girl, which are of course way more trusthworthy than BBC, The Guardian, CNN or Bellingcat
thanks, you opened my eyes
/irony off
also funny how they draw these lines, i last saw it in a conspiracy theory about someone who tried to proof, that the earth is flat
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Please, you can not believe it, it's just that there is physics and mechanics, you can't not believe them. And the technical data about the rocket is known with its operating time and maximum range.
You can show the transportation of the launcher as much as you like, but it’s impossible to make the rocket fly over a longer distance, as well as to see it with an existing locator at a great distance, and if the target is not visible, then you can’t aim the rocket very well. But this is not very good for ordinary users. Without the "Kupol" it will not be possible to shoot far, and if you shoot closer, then there will be much less distance between the point of the shot and the point of destruction.
That's just about it, but not in plain text, just there were conversations.
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yeah, like you need a diploma to understand all of this as a normal person
but i guess your blogger is that one prodigy, who understands all of this and the whole bunch of the dutch investigators are just idiots, sounds legit
okay, so you're saying the plane wasn't shot down by a Buk missile, do i get this right? So it just suddenly exploded by itself or what?
also that 39-60km seem to be made up (i didn't expect anything else), when the AP reporter wrote:
According to the account of the rebel official, however, Sapper had been sent that day to inspect three checkpoints — in the towns of Debaltsevo, Chernukhino and Snizhne, all of which are within a 20-mile (30-kilometer) radius of where the plane went down. At some point in these travels, he joined up with the convoy accompanying the missile launch system.
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yeah, like you need a diploma to understand all of this as a normal person
No, a diploma is not required. A school course in physics is enough, as well as mathematics. But for a complete understanding of the whole picture, it will be necessary to have a special military education for the operation and maintenance of the Buk Complex.
okay, so you're saying the plane wasn't shot down by a Buk missile, do i get this right? So it just suddenly exploded by itself or what?
also that 39-60km seem to be made up (i didn't expect anything else), when the AP reporter wrote:
According to the account of the rebel official, however, Sapper had been sent that day to inspect three checkpoints — in the towns of Debaltsevo, Chernukhino and Snizhne, all of which are within a 20-mile (30-kilometer) radius of where the plane went down. At some point in these travels, he joined up with the convoy accompanying the missile launch system.
No, I didn't say that. Read carefully. It’s just not possible to hit a rocket from that point due to the fact that the rocket flies for 25 km in total, but there is data about 32, so we’ll take a maximum of 32. But the radar of the installation itself works for 42 km of everything that is enough to illuminate the target .
So the SBU and the Guardian are lying that they found the launch site. The data is just taken from their sources.
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No, a diploma is not required. A school course in physics is enough, as well as mathematics. But for a complete understanding of the whole picture, it will be necessary to have a special military education for the operation and maintenance of the Buk Complex.
good you didn't cited everything, picked the easy questions to answer and didn't touched the criticism about your blogger.
But again, of course your prodigy blogger has that expertise in military education and the dutch investigators are just a bunch of greenhorns, sounds legit
No, I didn't say that. Read carefully.
i try, but your translator sucks and makes it hard to understand some things, it also seems that you struggle to understand things, which were written by someone who learned english and didn't use a translator. So i conclude you don't care about a real discussion, when you take the lazy approach with a translator and are just here for your 15 rubles
So the SBU and the Guardian are lying that they found the launch site. The data is just taken from their sources.
of course trustworthy and reliable sources are lying and some blogger spreads the truth...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/russia-trolling-ukraine-traction-tiktok
Linvill said the IRA’s strategy was not to cause people to believe something new, but rather to sow doubt and cause distrust in information sources that are usually seen as legitimate, in particular to deter domestic opposition to the Russian president. “If you don’t believe in anything, you’re not going to fight for anything and you are more likely to go along with Putin,” he said.
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good you didn't cited everything, picked the easy questions to answer and didn't touched the criticism about your blogger.
But again, of course your prodigy blogger has that expertise in military education and the dutch investigators are just a bunch of greenhorns, sounds legit
Well, not always a blogger is alone, sometimes there is a team. As for the Dutch, it's not so simple either. They work from the data that they are provided (I hope). What they give, they work with.
i try, but your translator sucks and makes it hard to understand some things, it also seems that you struggle to understand things, which were written by someone who learned english and didn't use a translator. So i conclude you don't care about a real discussion, when you take the lazy approach with a translator and are just here for your 15 rubles
As soon as your arguments disappear, you immediately write about SPAM or RAT or try to show in another way that there is no answer and there will not be one.
of course trustworthy and reliable sources are lying and some blogger spreads the truth...
No need for a link to the photo attached, along with the place. Moreover, these data were taken from the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), and it was precisely on them that Guardian found the launch site, where the grass was still burned out on the field and there were traces of caterpillars nearby. So the blogger didn’t search for it himself, but took it from a ready source.
Linvill said the IRA’s strategy was not to cause people to believe something new, but rather to sow doubt and cause distrust in information sources that are usually seen as legitimate, in particular to deter domestic opposition to the Russian president. “If you don’t believe in anything, you’re not going to fight for anything and you are more likely to go along with Putin,” he said.
This works both ways. Moreover, the information war is going on much more now, although there is a plus from a simple operation, there are fewer calls from the Bank's Security Service (Substitute the right bank) that money is being stolen and it needs to be transferred to a special account. There was at least 1 call a week, but now silence.
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Well, not always a blogger is alone, sometimes there is a team. As for the Dutch, it's not so simple either. They work from the data that they are provided (I hope). What they give, they work with.
I see, your blogger is the far more sophisticated source, thanks, that gave me a good laugh
it's not comprehensible, why some random blogger should have more information on hand, than the official investigation team, but that's the story how conspiracy theroies are made
As soon as your arguments disappear, you immediately write about SPAM or RAT or try to show in another way that there is no answer and there will not be one.
good that you take my struggles so serious and have to point out your far fetched claims about my spam again, when you were the one who was already warned, because of spam. It shows the real interest in the discussion NOT
This works both ways. Moreover, the information war is going on much more now
can you proof your claims about western bot farms?
and what have banks to do with all of this or are you just perfoming the known cementales move, suddenly talking about other things?
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I see, your blogger is the far more sophisticated source, thanks, that gave me a good laugh
Actually, the source is indicated, if you don’t like it, then I can’t do anything about it. Sometimes the truth is much more terrible than a lie, because a lie could not always be fully prepared.
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just more blah blah blah and of course no proof about western bot farms or clarification about the banks
by the way, what source are you talking about, the SBU for the guardian news? what about all the other links i provided?
what source does your random blogger have?
it seems the 15 rubles are worth it to embarras yourself that much
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you guys know that there is video footag of the downing, right? it was published by the separatists and quickly removed when they found out it was a civilian airplane that they were happy to have shot down.
still findable in the net... at least from outside russia
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cementales would find just another shady source as excuse or suddenly start talking about metallurgy, i really should stop wasting my time with him
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you guys know that there is video footag of the downing, right? it was published by the separatists and quickly removed when they found out it was a civilian airplane that they were happy to have shot down.
Well, what about the range of the missile, or is there no answer?
But about the video on the fall, now they will not help, but shoot on the phone. The bus is on fire, they ask to call firefighters, the answer is, go out, I'm filming, I don't want to call. Here the question was that the airliner was shot down. E-3 and E-8 tell you something?
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Well, what about the range of the missile, or is there no answer?
the answer is, it doesn't matter, because remains of a Buk missile were found by the investigators
i further read about the radar guidance of the missle itself
https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/page/3546/crash-mh17-17-july-2014
https://www.prosecutionservice.nl/topics/mh17-plane-crash/criminal-investigation-jit-mh17
debunked again?
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the answer is, it doesn't matter, because remains of a Buk missle were found by the investigators
i further read about the radar guidance of the missle itself
Wonderful. Here's how you can fly another 7 km if there is no inertia (the motor runs for 20 seconds) and there is no fuel either?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system the link leads here https://missilery.info/missile/bukm1 there are already 35, but not 39, and this is the range at which the plane was hit.
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Wonderful. Here's how you can fly another 7 km if there is no inertia (the motor runs for 20 seconds) and there is no fuel either?
maybe take into account that the evidence you presented is wrong, when so much evidence is presented, that MH17 was hit by a Buk missile or do you rely on conspiracy theories now?
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maybe take into account that the evidence you presented is wrong, when so much evidence is presented, that MH17 was hit by a Buk missile or do you rely on conspiracy theories now?
I didn’t say anywhere that they didn’t shoot down from Buk, don’t. I just noticed that some of the data is false and one of them is the place where the rocket was launched, and the Netherlands does not say where the launch was from, they talk about an area of 20,000 square kilometers. That's just what I'm talking about.
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they talk about an area of 20,000 square kilometers.
20k square kilometres, lol
i wonder from which source you got this number from
I didn’t say anywhere that they didn’t shoot down from Buk,
you didn't said it directly, but all the time talking about the radar, which couldn't lock on the plane or the distance the missile can travel, so you said it indirectly with sowing doubt about the facts and that it must have been impossible, that a Buk missile hit the plane
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i wonder from which source you got this number from
https://www.rbc.ru/textonlines/13/10/2015/561bb5559a7947a591fd939d At the same time, 320 km southeast of Grabovo is quite a lot and there are small towns there.
you didn't said it directly, but all the time talking about the radar, which couldn't lock on the plane or the distance the missile can travel, so you said it indirectly with sowing doubt about the facts and that it must have been impossible, that a Bunk missile hit the plane
Yes, I'm talking about math. There is an illumination radar that is on the launcher, but it has limited capabilities due to the fact that it is a system that consists of several components. As well as the range of the rocket. I'm just showing that it was impossible to shoot from that point to hit the plane. But I'm not saying that it wasn't Buk who fired. I'm just showing that the SBU is lying with the indication of the shooting point and nothing more.
A small addition.
The SOU 9A310M1 airborne radar is capable of detecting and tracking targets in azimuth of 120 degrees and in elevation: 7 degrees, with movement in elevation from -10 to +80. Simply put, on its own, the 9A310M1 self-propelled gun can detect and hit targets flying at low and medium altitudes up to 6000 m. Combat targets that threaten ground forces and equipment usually fly at such altitudes.
It follows from this that in order to hit a target similar to a Boeing-777 flying at an altitude of 10,000 m and not being a potential threat, it was necessary to specifically transfer the onboard radar of the SOA to vertical scanning mode along the terrain angle at high altitudes, and deploy in the direction from which the Malaysian Boeing-777 was supposed to fly.
At a Boeing speed of 900 km / h. the combat crew of the JMA will have about a minute to capture and hit a target that is moving at such a height and speed before it leaves the affected area.
Therefore, for a successful defeat, the target had to wait, at least on purpose. Let me remind you that the visibility zone of the radar is 85 km, the Boeing flies 15 km in a minute, and the start button was pressed when it was (according to my minimum possible calculations) 39 km from the BUK
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https://www.rbc.ru/textonlines/13/10/2015/561bb5559a7947a591fd939d At the same time, 320 km southeast of Grabovo is quite a lot and there are small towns there.
I can't find the 20,000 square kilometres in the provided source
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just more blah blah blah and of course no proof about western bot farms
Well, why write about https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/inside-a-ukrainian-troll-farm if everyone already knows this. Like about these https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/72-%D0%B9_%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%80_%D1%96%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D0%BF%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%96%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D0%B9_(%D0%A3%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%97%D0%BD%D0%B0) or about the 83rd Center of the IPSO MTR of the Armed Forces of Ukraine https://asd.news/articles/ukraina/gde-obitayut-divannye-voyska-ukrainy/ It will be interesting, then read https://riafan.ru/1613069-informacionnaya-voina-protiv-rossii-i-donbassa-kak-rabotayut-ukrainskie-fabriki-trollei
clarification about the banks
https://www.pravmir.ru/vam-zvonyat-iz-sluzhby-bezopasnosti-banka-7-ostroumnyh-otvetov-moshennikam/ https://habr.com/ru/company/solarsecurity/blog/540866/ Sorry that in Russian, but what is, is. They don’t really want to advertise it, but not in the case when there were a lot of them, social advertising has already gone on actions in case of calls.
by the way, what source are you talking about, the SBU for the guardian news? what about all the other links i provided?
what source does your random blogger have?
I'm talking about this SBU https://ssu.gov.ua/ Based on their data, the place of the alleged launch was found.
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is Ukraine considered western now as not being a member of EU or NATO?
Riafan seems to be a very trusthworthy site, i saw several reports, how they fabricated stuff
https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1296439823604101124
https://www.pravmir.ru/vam-zvonyat-iz-sluzhby-bezopasnosti-banka-7-ostroumnyh-otvetov-moshennikam/ https://habr.com/ru/company/solarsecurity/blog/540866/ Sorry that in Russian, but what is, is. They don’t really want to advertise it, but not in the case when there were a lot of them, social advertising has already gone on actions in case of calls.
how on earth is this all related to MH17?
you seem a bit lost in all of your inflation of the discussion, i already mentioned it before, don't inflate so much, if you get lost
Actually, the source is indicated, if you don’t like it, then I can’t do anything about it. Sometimes the truth is much more terrible than a lie, because a lie could not always be fully prepared.
is was tlaking about that one, okay the source you were talking about was the SBU, uhm, i don't like them? Your stuff doesn't make any sense
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is Ukraine considered western now as not being a member of EU or NATO?
If this was the case in 2021, then I admit it. Although she is not yet a member in 2022, but only a candidate, at the current time.
Riafan seems to be a very trusthworthy site, i saw several reports, how they fabricated stuff
Believe it or not. MI-6 you can't always trust either. Bellingcat this is their agency for leaking information that is not very good and will not be published in an official way.
how on earth is this all related to MH17?
you seem a bit lost in all of your inflation of the discussion, i already mentioned it before, don't inflate so much, if you get lost
What was the question, so is the answer https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/7IFXbOF
is was tlaking about that one, okay the source you were talking about was the SBU, uhm, i don't like them? Your stuff doesn't make any sense
No need to just distort, it's written wrong. There is data, there were doubts about the location, after the source was indicated (abbreviations are not always clear), now about the fact that the information from the source was not liked.
And that was not what was said. It was said that the truth is much worse than a lie, but it's true.
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What was the question, so is the answer https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/7IFXbOF
you talked about the banks before https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/wChdqqq and i asked how it's related to IRAs strategy
It was said that the truth is much worse than a lie, but it's true.
and if the truth is a lie and a lie the truth, the truth lies on the ground, see i can talk bullshit too
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You will need stop to attack and provoke people:
maybe you should start thinking
.
if it makes you feel better
.
that's cute
.
you guys are the reason, the word "nazi" doesn't have any meaning anymore.
Etc. Argue the points, stop to use ad hominem to derail the discussion.
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as long as everyone,, call people nazi for critizising ukraine or in general for disagreeing on whatever. there is no "discussion". this whole topic only exist to dehumanize russian people. its spreading pure hatered, under the disguise of virtual signaling.
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Oh no, any thoughts why that would happen? I've got a super idea for you, try and NOT invade other countries and try to NOT kill millions in the process, this might help.
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а ципсошнику неприятно? методичка годная и с пруфами же ж))
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На всякий случай свое очко проверь, вдруг и там тоже парочка ципсошников сидит.
Ed. Добавлю, что один в один такую же хуебень с использованием только удобных фактов можно про РФ склепать, было бы желание.
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This is above and beyond hiding it behind 10 "absolutely NSFW" warnings. Not to mention posting it openly in the forum without any warning.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-07-07/stepan-bandera-is-the-wrong-hero-in-ukraine-s-valiant-flight-against-russia
There are more fitting ways to identify with Ukraine’s noble fight for freedom than to honor a partisan who looked up to Hitler.
Does it turn out that this article is a lie?
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its funny that you brought it here while every year this is what happens in moscow: russian march
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Video from 2013. But that's okay, there were later. And now the main question is "What do they want at these marches and chant at the passage?" Or don't you know the answer?
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What they want? The same as other far-right nationalists in their countries. To have ethnicity "pure" nation free of "bad elements" and it's up to them to decide who's good enough.
It's the same all over the world. You have people that admire Hitler or follow other type of far-right ideology everywhere. We have this kind of nazii morons in Poland as well. They were dressing up in SS uniforms and celebrate Hitler birthdays. News journalist managed to slip in, made video material and they face trial now. For some reason prosecutor office was so eager their tried to prosecute journalist as well...
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/poland-drops-prosecution-journalist-who-exposed-nazi-gang
There is small minority of neo-nazii in Poland and quite a lot of far-right nationalists. Fact that some morons in Poland glorify Hitler mean that Poland is run by nazii? I guess not. I do believe our government should finally step down and take care of all this IMO hurtful nationalism, but they bet their election voting on them. So they allow right-wing to flourish.
But because of that no one is allowed to say that whole country is nazii, is controlled by nazii or it's all right to attack them as "pre-emptive move" to get rid of nazii.
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There is a small problem. Small. They are only Nationalists, not Nazis. Yes, they talk a lot about the nation, as well as to remove those from the government that they are not satisfied with the closure of borders. The population of Moscow at the moment is about 12 million, and about 5 thousand people came to this march in 2019 (in 2020, mass events were banned due to Coronavirus, and in 2021 they were not agreed). But if someone goes with the support of Hitler, then you can buy a wreath for the grave in advance, just where to put it.
As for Poland, the "Law and Justice" party is in power, and these are still those Nationalists, because they preach national-conservative ideology, but here I just don't complain, they want good for the Poles and the Poles, so let them do it.
And as I can see, for some reason everyone unites Nationalists and Nazis, although this is absolutely wrong. These are different states, yes they can go together (Germany has been an example of this since 1939), but at the same moment they go separately Armia Krajowa is an example of that.
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A little wrong. Nationalism has always existed, as soon as 2 tribes appeared under the primitive communal system, nationalism immediately appeared. But there were just 2 ways of its manifestation. The first option was that the neighbors got 4 tons of mammoths, and we will get 5 tons of mammoths or 2 mammoths, showing that we are stronger, but the bad option, which is the second, is the option that we will go and select the mammoth. When you see that the team of another country was stronger in football, then there arises a desire to assemble a stronger team and beat the opposing team on the sports field (according to the rules), and not just go and beat them with rebar.
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What do you dislike about nationalism, which was even earlier, before meaningful writing appeared. He already was, that's what they called him later, but this did not stop him from being.
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@cement You tell me bruh, since you probably more acknowledge about this theme than me. Their movement doesn't reminds me anything, im seeing it for the first time, Kappa. All those anthems, symbols and gestures doesn't recall anything in my memory, lmao.
how
inconvenient
it is
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https://sunlight.net/wiki/znachenie-oberega-kolovrat-kak-pravilno-nosit-muzhchinam-i-zhenshhinam.html
https://www.livemaster.ru/topic/860971-kolovrat-interesnye-fakty-o-simvole
Fine, but where else are the leaders and symbols, besides kolovrat?
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I got you dude. It wasn't nazis symbols, it's etnic russian symbolic. They are not giving 'sieg heil' they just praise the sun. They are not publicly demanding to remove all non-slav nations from russia, they are just patriots of the country. It's not war, it's SMO.
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Wow, the answer has finally been given. And it sounds like this: "Remove non-Slavic peoples." And there is nothing more. This is the desire of the nationalists, but not the Nazis with the glorification of Stepan Bandera. This is exactly what they made a more objective reference to when showing. If there is a demand to remove or ban one ethnic group, then this is nationalism, but if political figures are also applied, then this is already a movement with the way these figures called their movement.
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It's actually funny how you trying to justify the actual naZis speech of modern russians and turn it into fluffy looking nationalism which was the main idea, the core of german nacizm.
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Nationalism will always be the core, just don't drag in Nazism, that's not right. Or I will call all the national trends with your submission Nazism.
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I wouldn't call any movement that driven by extreme racism any differently.
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Well, Nationalism and Racism are different, though similar.
But at the same time there is also a different Racism. Nationalism is a nation, and Racism is a race.
https://news.rambler.ru/other/38743048-glavnye-otlichiya-fashizma-ot-natsional-sotsializm/ https://nauka.club/obshchestvoznanie/fashizm-i-natsizm.html https://isralove.org/load/24-1-0-3241 https://halapsis.net/about-fascim
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i already wrote this too you, but i will repeat it:
and on the other side belittle russian nazis as nationalists, who openly show the hitler salute and nazi symbols.
Your links who try to justify the kolovrat on the third image doesn't explain the black sun on the second image, also the kolovrat may be a slavic symbol, if shown alone, but taking the context with hitler salutes into account, it is used as a swastika
but look here for russian nazis:
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/g6qqngD
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i already explained to you, why your subjective opinion article isn't a suitable addition to an objective news article
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/6IVIWcn
and yet you post it again, trying to fabricate a far fetched claim about something happened 80 years ago and bring it into relation with present events, if you would follow this narrative, everyone in Germany would still be a Nazi and this shows that this fabrication couldn't be more wrong
not to mention no one asked about Bandera or Melnyk in the first place, which makes your requests to me, to please not to deflect or derail the discussion even more hilarious, when you're the one always coming up with things no one asked for
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A little higher gave the answer, though not to you. If you need to clarify something, then I will do it.
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i suggest you really read my post, which i conveniently linked
you're trying to stylize Bandera as a second Hitler with the help of a subjective opinion article and no further facts, when it's not even clear, if he was a Nazi and try to fabricate a claim, that all Ukrainians look up to him and are Nazis, because of that
and on the other side belittle russian nazis as nationalists, who openly show the hitler salute and nazi symbols.
Your links who try to justify the kolovrat on the third image doesn't explain the black sun on the second image, also the kolovrat may be a slavic symbol, if shown alone, but taking the context with hitler salutes into account, it is used as a swastika
but look here for russian nazis:
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/g6qqngD
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I do not stylize Bandera as a second Hitler. These are different political figures. Although Poland in 1940 simply adores Bandera, so that even his teeth grind at his mention. If you want to offend a Pole, then say that Bandera is a hero (as you can understand, I’m just against this, although he did some things well for Ukraine, but it’s not terror to do it, but he fought for the independence of Ukraine, at first against Poland and Germany (until 1942), and then with Germany (since 1943) against the USSR).
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I agree with you, this article is not a lie, thanks for the clarification.
"Part of Putin’s web of lies is that Ukraine, a democratic country he attacked without provocation, is allegedly run by Nazis and must therefore be “de-Nazified.” This is absurd, as almost everybody understands — at least outside of Russia and the reality distortion field of Putin’s propaganda."
that's actaully called real, independent journalism, not reporting only one sided things that fit your government's propaganda, as they do in Russia. they can tell the truth about Putin, they can tell the truth about that Bandera is admired by some people in Ukraine, which is basically the same thing like many russkies admire Stalin too and he was a reckless bastard as well.
I guess cement finally understands that his country is doing the wrong thing here? possibly not, his mind is cemented in the pillars of Putins bullshit.
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The problem is that he is admired with the support of the country's leadership, if this was not the case, then there were no banners with him. If you go out in Russia with Bandera, then after that music will play in the house, but the one who went out will not hear it. But if you go out with Dzhugashvilli (Stalin is his underground nickname), then you will still have to prove that you have nothing bad and only in combination with other posters. And so representatives of Ukraine poured a lot of shit on him when they came to power (Khrushchev and his support).
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The problem is that he is admired with the support of the country's leadership
you're just claiming things without proof (aka spam) but it will be an easy debunk for me:
https://time.news/ukraine-news-ukrainian-foreign-ministry-distances-itself-from-melnyks-statement/
And so representatives of Ukraine poured a lot of shit on him when they came to power (Khrushchev and his support).
of course it's all made up, time to get educated again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin
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you're just claiming things without proof (aka spam) but it will be an easy debunk for me:
https://time.news/ukraine-news-ukrainian-foreign-ministry-distances-itself-from-melnyks-statement/
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i7h5Q4j4HnRw/v1/-1x-1.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) There is only one Melnik walking in this demonstration. I just believe that Melnik is already an aged lady and a 16-year-old boy. Stop pinning everything on the ambassador. It's all there in the photo.
of course it's all made up, time to get educated again:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin
"Мы без конца проклинаем товарища Сталина, и, разумеется, за дело. И все же я хочу спросить - кто написал четыре миллиона доносов?"— Довлатов
"We endlessly curse Comrade Stalin, and, of course, for the cause. And yet I want to ask - who wrote four million denunciations?" - Dovlatov (original in Russian, translation here)
Wikipedia has already been discussed. If you believe her, then it will be possible to defend a diploma through her, try it, get an unforgettable experience. And Khrushchev, while he was in power, was able to clean up the archives very well. Read https://stalinism.ru/repressii/kakovyi-masshtabyi-stalinskih-repressiy.html, just don't count political and criminal together. Like the 1.5 million people who were personally shot, if you try to say this, they will laugh at you, like liberals from Ekho Moskvy, they even asked again, and the liberal confirmed, after that the presenter was not very good and was able to broadcast.
Полтора миллиарда посаженных лично Ежовым
8 мая 2010 года в эфире "Эхо Москвы" заместитель председателя общества «Мемориал» Никита Петров, озвучивший Страшную Правду: «Надо же просто учитывать то, что при Ежове в годы большого террора, тех самых массовых операций НКВД было арестовано свыше полутора тысяч миллионов человек», — и несколько раз повторивший цифру по просьбе ошеломленной ведущей:
«Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: Ну, вот тут возникает еще один вопрос. Вот, та самая волна послаблений, которая пошла при нем, это что, была демонстрация того, что его предшественник, так скажем, напортачил? Что его предшественник вел такую контрреволюционную или антигосударственную деятельность? Потому что, ведь, много пишут о том, что когда появился Берия, кого-то повыпускали.
Н.ПЕТРОВ: Нет-нет. Это действительно произошло, но причина-то здесь вовсе не в том, что Лаврентий Павлович оказался добрый или Сталин вдруг внезапно подобрел. Надо же просто учитывать то, что при Ежове в годы большого террора, тех самых массовых операций НКВД было арестовано свыше полутора тысяч миллионов человек.
Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: «Тысяч миллионов»?
Н.ПЕТРОВ: Полторы тысячи миллионов было арестовано с июля 1937 года по ноябрь 1938-го.
Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: Так это же бешеные цифры.
Н.ПЕТРОВ: Да. По 100 тысяч человек в месяц примерно.
Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: Это тоже подтверждено?
Н.ПЕТРОВ: Конечно. Это подтверждено, опубликована статистика.
Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: Просто, после каждой передачи нам же пишут, что «вы все врёте».
Н.ПЕТРОВ: Ну, я понимаю, люди могут врать. Но пусть они тогда читают те документы, которые были изданы хотя бы в Международном фонде демократии.
Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: Полторы тысячи миллионов арестованных?
Н.ПЕТРОВ: Да, полторы тысячи миллионов арестованных.
Н.БОЛТЯНСКАЯ: Фантастика.»
«Полторы тысячи миллионов» — это по-русски полтора миллиарда. Учитывая, что во времена Ежовского террора население планеты Земля составляло 2,2 миллиарда человек, в советских тюрьмах побывало 68% человечества. Ну, или каждый гражданин Советского Союза отсидел в означенный промежуток времени девять сроков. Кроме того, ста тысяч посадок в месяц явно не достаточно: необходимое число — 93 750 000 (девяносто три миллиона семьсот пятьдесят тысяч).
One and a half billion planted personally by Yezhov
On May 8, 2010, on the air of Ekho Moskvy, the deputy chairman of the Memorial society, Nikita Petrov, voiced the Terrible Truth: “You just have to take into account the fact that under Yezhov, during the years of great terror, those very mass operations of the NKVD, more than one and a half thousand million people were arrested ”, and repeating the number several times at the request of the stunned presenter:
“N. BOLTYANSKAYA: Well, here another question arises. Here, that same wave of indulgences that went under him, was it a demonstration that his predecessor, so to speak, screwed up? That his predecessor was engaged in such counter-revolutionary or anti-state activities? Because, after all, they write a lot about the fact that when Beria appeared, someone was let out.
N. PETROV: No, no. This really happened, but the reason here is not at all that Lavrenty Pavlovich turned out to be kind or that Stalin suddenly became kinder. You just have to take into account the fact that under Yezhov during the years of great terror, those very mass operations of the NKVD, more than one and a half thousand million people were arrested.
N. BOLTYANSKAYA: "Thousands of millions"?
N. PETROV: One and a half thousand million were arrested from July 1937 to November 1938.
N. BOLTYANSKAYA: So these are crazy numbers.
N. PETROV: Yes. Approximately 100 thousand people per month.
N. BOLTYANSKAYA: Is this also confirmed?
N. PETROV: Of course. This is confirmed, published statistics.
N. BOLTYANSKAYA: It's just that after each broadcast they write to us that "you are all lying."
N. PETROV: Well, I understand that people can lie. But then let them read those documents that were published at least in the International Endowment for Democracy.
N. BOLTYANSKAYA: One and a half thousand million arrested?
N. PETROV: Yes, one and a half thousand million arrested.
N. BOLTYANSKAYA: Fantastic.”
“One and a half thousand million” is in Russian one and a half billion. Considering that at the time of the Yezhov terror, the population of the planet Earth was 2.2 billion people, 68% of humanity visited Soviet prisons. Well, or every citizen of the Soviet Union served nine terms in the indicated period of time. In addition, one hundred thousand landings per month is clearly not enough: the required number is 93,750,000 (ninety-three million seven hundred and fifty thousand). (the transmission was again in Russian, so again the translation)
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Yes, the image has been dealt a big blow. Not everyone looks at the fact that he fought for the independence of Ukraine first with the Germans, everyone looks at the fact that the struggle was jointly with the Germans. Here political scientists have to think and a lot, but at the same moment some of them let it go by itself and then it became more difficult, and the media are always looking for dirty laundry and put it on public display.
It is obvious that he simply misspoke repeatedly. If you multiply 100,000 a month with 15 months between July 1937 to November 1938, you will get 1,5 mln (not 1,5 thousand mln).
Yes, he later corrected himself, but at the same moment there are documents and according to them, out of 2528146 convicts, 1948228 have criminal offenses, not political ones, but criminal ones (theft, murder, armed robbery, cattle theft and escape). A total of 579918 political. This is about 1/3, but all 2528146 are attributed to the tyranny of the Stali regime. And on Wikipedia they were tied together in one pile. They only wrote a report to Khrushchev.
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Yes, he later corrected himself, but at the same moment there are documents and according to them, out of 2528146 convicts, 1948228 have criminal offenses, not political ones, but criminal ones (theft, murder, armed robbery, cattle theft and escape). A total of 579918 political. This is about 1/3, but all 2528146 are attributed to the tyranny of the Stali regime.
Do you have any proof for your claims, any links?
And on Wikipedia they were tied together in one pile.
I can't see that, deaths are listed as several events.
580k seems a bit low if you read that specific part:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin#Judicial_executions
if you refer to convicts with criminal charges you may read this specific part:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin#Gulag
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Do you have any proof for your claims, any links?
https://stalinism.ru/repressii/kakovyi-masshtabyi-stalinskih-repressiy.html Please.
Примечания (Notes) - are just the sources from which this article was created.
I can't see that, deaths are listed as several events.
580k seems a bit low if you read that specific part:
You can not believe, it's your right.
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You can not believe, it's your right.
it's not what i believe, it's what i read on a reliable source, contrary to your source
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it's not what i believe, it's what i read on a reliable source, contrary to your source
Well, give a link to your source, which has confirmed data. It's from the archives.
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https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i7h5Q4j4HnRw/v1/-1x-1.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party) There is only one Melnik walking in this demonstration. I just believe that Melnik is already an aged lady and a 16-year-old boy. Stop pinning everything on the ambassador. It's all there in the photo.
a picture and a wiki about a political party who got about 2% in last elections is your proof, that Bandera is admired with the support of the country's leadership? What a poor try
Wikipedia has already been discussed. If you believe her, then it will be possible to defend a diploma through her, try it, get an unforgettable experience.
right, i will defend my diploma in debunking russian trolls with citing the sources given by Wiki, easy
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a picture and a wiki about a political party who got about 2% in last elections is your proof, that Bandera is admired with the support of the country's leadership? What a poor try
No, they just show a political party that has nothing to do with the former ambassador Melnik, otherwise you constantly kick at Melnik.
right, i will defend my diploma in debunking russian trolls with citing the sources given by Wiki, easy
Okay, just don't forget to post the result. Links to Wikipedia only.
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No, they just show a political party that has nothing to do with the former ambassador Melnik, otherwise you constantly kick at Melnik.
okay and how is it related to your former claim or are you just spamming again?
Okay, just don't forget to post the result. Links to Wikipedia only.
yeah, you didn't understand my post AGAIN and just spamming bull
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okay and how is it related to your former claim or are you just spamming again?
With your own refutation that this is only the position of Melnik. https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/gvYYW4K
yeah, you didn't understand my post AGAIN and just spamming bull
I understood perfectly. I forgot to add about restrictions.
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With your own refutation that this is only the position of Melnik. https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/gvYYW4K
you're twisting words, no one ever said it's only Melnyk position or do you have any proof for your claim?
also your claim about Bandera is admired with the support of the country's leadership is also wrong
I understood perfectly. I forgot to add about restrictions.
yeah no, you didn't when i talked about citing sources of wiki and you just talked about wiki itself
wow, that sheer amount of misinformation and lies, easy to debunk, aren't you embarrassed of yourself?
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you're twisting words, no one ever said it's only Melnyk position or do you have any proof for your claim?
also your claim about Bandera is admired with the support of the country's leadership is also wrong
So the article is about the former ambassador Melnik, or is this article about everyone, and not just about Melnik? But what about Svoboda, which is on the flags? I'm not saying that everyone supports, it's just that there is this support, although just with this message that the Foreign Ministry does not support Melnik's position, you yourself say that others have such support.
yeah no, you didn't when i talked about citing sources of wiki and you just talked about wiki itself
wow, that sheer amount of misinformation and lies, easy to debunk, aren't you embarrassed of yourself?
We distort, it's good, but I would like to read it carefully. There is about the fact that it is being changed for the sake of the political course, and not about disinformation, although it can be entered according to the rules of Wikipedia itself (one contributes and 5 verified with a reputation confirm it) or did you not know about it?
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you inflated everything so much, i don't want to read all your shit to debunk you again
it should be clear by now, who is embarrasing himself over and over again and got debunked several times
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interesting interview with -
Ukrainian ambassador to Germany Andrey Melnyk
he defends Nazi collaborator and anti-Semite Stepan Bandera
https://youtu.be/JVEGR7apzoI?t=6220
[language - german, have some google subtitles]
read also a comments were
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bruh, your "news" is almost 2 weeks old, i don't see the relevance and how it brings Awareness to Ukraine
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If you're aware of my posts, you should also be aware that MSKOTOR doesn't like personal attacks and several people, me included, already received a warning
There are several facts, which led to WW2, one was the treaty of Versailles, but i never heard something about colonies.
Hitler wanted Lebensraum in the east, not in Africa:
Lebensraum was one of the leading motivations Nazi Germany had in initiating World War II and it would continue this policy until the end of World War II.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum
but i don't know how all of this is relevant to the topic
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You should not post few messages in a row. If you need to add something to written post - edit it. Otherwise it's a spam and on SG it creates multiple notifications with new message to the person you reply to.
You should also divide your message into smaller paragraphs, it makes it easier to read. Otherwise it blends into hard to read mass of text.
Problem of eastern europe region is that it acted as a buffer-colony countries for Russia. Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Ukraine and others were there to just give profits for Russia and shield them from bad capitalism after the WW2. It was easier to give up this land by Germany and US to give them breathing space after the war, than to fight for independence of those nations. Poland and others managed to leave USSR when Russia was weak, Ukraine and Belarus did not. They stayed as those weird satellite countries on paper with their own government, but in fact controlled by Russia. You can compare living conditions in Belarus / Ukraine vs Poland / Lithuania to see what was better for the countries in the region.
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Ukrainian ambassador to Germany Andrey Melnyk
He was hired by Zelensky's predecessor at the end of 2014, but he was fired yesterday by Zelensky: Zelenskiy sacks Ukraine's envoy to Germany
Sergei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister is still doing his lame job. This moron said that Hitler had Jewish origins.
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hahah ep,
so... it a little suspicious, he was dismissed after his 'interview'.
i will refresh definitions to u - ambassador is the highest rank in diplomatic job. all his gestures, speeches and thoughts - are pure will of ukraine and reflect itself.
zelensky lies again about rotations.
what happens to a human rights ambassador in the ukraine (Liudmila Denisova)? was she fall in the rotation too ?))
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He wasn't the only one who was dismissed, there were several diplomats at once, i don't see suspicious activity there
all his gestures, speeches and thoughts - are pure will of ukraine and reflect itself.
https://time.news/ukraine-news-ukrainian-foreign-ministry-distances-itself-from-melnyks-statement/
what happens to a human rights ambassador in the ukraine (Liudmila Denisova)?
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Ukrainian Foreign Ministry distances itself from Melnyk’s statement
precisely.
because if they not - it will be a disaster for ukraine face.
but... making the 'distances' from his statements tells only one thing - they pay a salary to a full-day clown with a doctor degree in law.
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More Russian bravery: Death and devastation as Russian rockets hit Ukraine apartment block
The regional emergency service gave the death toll at 15 on Sunday afternoon, adding that 24 more people could still be under the rubble.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/NKHYASBTTRIOHDSQURF2JXA2HA.jpg "\"death toll at 15 on Sunday afternoon\"")
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/IWZFPFVPZ5KW5BQQSAHL57J4EI.jpg "\"24 more people could still be under the rubble\"")
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/R2RUPHKH2BMGNHEXSKVDWOMFXI.jpg "One more school destroyed, the Russian \"liberation\" is progressing")
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Unfortunately, there are no photos of dead people here, therefore we must believe in the number of victims only relying on the word of honor of this gentleman. But as we know, ukrainian government likes to lie. What are the stories of Ombudsman Denisova about the rape of twins, triplets, 9-month-old children, 90-year-old women and so on worth
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You call it unfortunate that there is no photo of killed people in the article, but I wish you to be fortunate enough to live through something similar, because you probably wouldn't make it.
There is petabytes of doom footage caused by putins war over internet but you're asking for more, what kind of sickness is it?
What difference does it make to you? When publisher have guts to post any - you call it staged footage and the dead body's - paid actors. When there is no footage in article/video you call it a lie or fake news. It's literally mental shit how putins pocket bots are willing to deny anything they are looking at.
Checkout the MapHub which made by digital war investigators such as Benjamin Strick, you probably would enjoy the 'civilian casualties' and 'mass graves' tabs.
And about the rapes: currently there is 124 confirmed by UN episodes of raping during occupation and the numbers will keep growing because it will take years to process all episodes. Link
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And of course that russian soldier arrested by russians for raping few months child and recording it and putting it online, that didnt happen
oh wait...
Like the destruction of civilian infrastructure isnt enough...
How stupid ppl can be ?
Cancel naZi ruSS ? why not
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And of course that russian soldier arrested by russians for raping few months child and recording it and putting it online, that didnt happen
oh wait...
You forgot to put links with proofs. Without it its complete bullshit
Also some videos just for you how civilian infrastructure is used
https://t.me/sheyhtamir1974/22347
https://t.me/ZE_kartel/5524
https://t.me/sheyhtamir1974/22294
https://t.me/sheyhtamir1974/14176
https://t.me/cherniy_kvartal/5361
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If you live in Dnipro as you claim, you can go to any school and look for yourself if there are any soldiers stationed there. What is the problem?
Very funny proposition. But seems you don't understand how math logic works. I'm not saying that the army is in EVERY school / hospital / mall. I said they use them, I mean SOME of them. If I go to an arbitrary school and there are no soldiers, it will not mean that there are no soldiers in ALL other schools. It will only mean that they are not in that particular school at that particular time. But they may have been there earlier, or may be there later, and may never evere be in that particular school.
If you are so interested in this question, I can share a video with soldiers that you can easily identify. If you can't identify, I may do it for you
https://t.me/cherniy_kvartal/5370
No soldiers were ever stationed there, because it would have been visible for anyone around and would immediately cause public outcry.
These are just your words. No proofs
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What if civilians were using those places instead of the army? Are you okay with that?
https://t.me/skeptik_21/3829
https://t.me/ZE_kartel/5524
As we can see here, you lied
and uses them in such a manner that nobody around is aware of it (for some reason).
Who told you that nobody is or isn't awared? That's just your supposes
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Some schools might be used
For 5 hours here I am telling about the same thing, but you still continue to argue.
I'm telling you Ukrainian soldiers uses some schools.
You replies, no, they don't. They just use some schools
Don't you see any contradictions? Looks like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing
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If you are so interested in this question, I can share a video with soldiers that you can easily identify. If you can't identify, I may do it for you
https://t.me/cherniy_kvartal/5370
If someone was interested who is that guy and didn't find him, then take this link
https://novynarnia.com/2018/04/03/golova-shtabu-natskorpusu-rodion-kudryashov-te-shho-mi-buduyemo-tse-fenomen/
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are you so desperate, that you even have to reply to yourself?
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If you live in Dnipro as you claim
Of course he is not. There were no proofs of this. But there are multiple proof of him being a kremlin bot.
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I wonder how this crappy sellout bots have levelled up SG and Steam accounts? As their hobby aside from job?
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My best guess they are regular SG users, that have been conscripted in VK or where they also lurk. This way Orc government gets their "trusted, leveled users" to spread their crap around, for some small amount of cash per message.
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Will you donate 1 million $ in BTC if i share the proof? Or are you not responsible for your words?
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I can paypal you 10$, my best offer. Also, quit it with the gopnik rhetoric ("на понт брать"), it's imbeciles' (and russia's) way of thinking.
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I can offer $50 direct to his PrivatBank card or $100 in Steam gift cards for the 30 sec video of his face in any recognizable place of Dnipro where he is admitting that he is HammerFall93 from Steamgifts. Also I remember his hilarious posts where he used google translator to make an vision that he can speak Ukrainian. That was ridiculous, even third-grader can write more authentic.
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manipulated bs
pls dont feed me with naZi ruSS propaganda
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I mean of course, why would civillians bodies be inside a civillian building? Madness! Of course it was an Azov headquarters! Every strike russia does turns the impact site into an Azov headquarters, don't people know?
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This is spam. If you don't have counter argument (that is some verified article, not video posted by someone on telegram) don't reply.
Message is about another Russian strike on civil infrastructure. And you write you don't see bodies so it's fake. This is red herring and casual fallacy.
And you will not find dead bodies in this thread, such content is against our guidelines.
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Під час обстрілу міста Часів Яр загинули воїни з Тернопільщини, – голова ОВА Володимир Труш
Regional media tells that there were ukrainian soldiers
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For the love of god someone ban this clown
Btw don't forget to root about your own heroes - Wagner group. OH, sorry, I forgot - you are paid by Kremlin to only shit on Ukraine. I just wonder how much - is it really over 1000 EUR as some have claimed?
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we should kill all russian's, the goverment said so.
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Or maybe, just maybe, we should deal with stuff politically and diplomatically not by invading another country heh? And I'm all for saving lives on both sides.
It boggles the mind how dense you Rus supporters are - this all began due to the simple fact - Putler invaded a sovereign neighboring country. You can rationalize how much you want. Russia is to blame for every Ukrainian and every Russian killed in this senseless conflict.
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He's not Russian, he's a German "Querdenker". He can read between the lines, he's a mixture of Nostradamus and Ronald McDonald.
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I've read they get 15 rubles per post, 1000 Eur seems a bit high for shitposting.
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Early in the morning of February, peacekeeping troops of Chinese President Vin Sun Hui attacked peaceful St. Petersburg with the intention of liberating the Russian Federation from russian fascists (with auto-generated english subtitles):
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Got severe PTSD during every minute of this episode. Never would have guessed "Masyanya" will have such an effect on me.
Fuck putin, fuck orc soldiers that came here, and fuck everyone who still supports this fucking war. Thank you fof sharing.
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With all the respect to USA for their help to Ukraine, it's pretty sad to see the difference between military support for Afghanistan and for Ukraine. It's like x100 times less. More than that, it's strange to see usa politicians who offer to let Putin grab Ukraine territories. Seems like Putin invested his dirty money to purchase lobby in usa and Western Europe. We can see amazing pro-kremlin politicians in Germany and Austria.
This war is happening not only on the field. This is true war between pro-Ukraine and pro-kremlin lobby in whole Western Europe and USA. After all the evidences of war crimes and terrorism russian government, Putin and his army did in Ukraine - Russia still isn't marked as a State-Sponsor of Terrorism...
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If you are aware of german history, Germany was divided 30 years ago and there are still people and politicians, who mourn the fall of the pro-russian/soviet german democratic republic and we also have people who mourn the fall of the third reich, but both are pests from both far ends of the political spectrum and have nothing to say in politics
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I know what happened to Germany. It's not only Germany. Look at Austria - their highest politicians and analog of CIA is corrupted by Putin's money. Kremlin invested huge amount of money to purchase politicians in whole Europe and USA. I'm not talking about regular people. For regular people there is a local pro-kremlin propaganda tv/radio/youtube channels, magazines and bloggers sponsored by Putin. And if regular people's pro-kremlin opinion can be ignored, pro-kremlin politicians cause a lot of troubles in Europe and USA.
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That's quite rich to complain that spending money in and for Afghanistan was an issue, considering that just the US alone spent at least 1 trillion $. Not to mention that the Taliban aren't Russia's army. You don't fight a guerilla war with the same weapon systems as a war against a regular army.
I can't judge Austria but in Germany even the Left abandoned Russia, with only the absolute fringe still voicing their wish for a "diplomatic solution".
Your complaints about them not being considered terrorists also is absurd. This is a war. And in wars you don't label them terrorists but war criminals. Russia and Putin are being checked by courts in multiple countries and international organizations. And there certainly is no shortage of leaders calling them out as war criminals and sanctioning them already.
So yeah, I don't really get what you are upset about. Sure, Russia is doing its propaganda tricks but besides Trump they fool few and achieve little.
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I can't judge Austria but in Germany even the Left abandoned Russia, with only the absolute fringe still voicing their wish for a "diplomatic solution".
Maybe then it's time to show real support for Ukraine? For example stop blocking money to Ukrain from EU
https://www.corriere.it/esteri/22_luglio_10/germania-aiuti-ucraina-49f30094-ffc2-11ec-a15c-229c03190307.shtml
Or maybe stop sending of old weapons and start sending modern weapons to Ukraine?
Or maybe Germany and the EU should just go ahead and stop buying gas from Putin right now?
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Huh, did you switch sides? IIRC you acted like one of those Russian trolls some months ago and suddenly you demand better support for Ukraine?
Anyway, I don't see why we should let you in charge of our decisions. I'm not aware of us blocking money and your Italian link also doesn't seem to cover that topic.
We do send modern weapons, though I personally would send way more.But it's not really a secret that our own stock isn't in best shape.
We have the established schedule by the EU to drop out of Russia's coal, oil and gas over time. If you have any secret energy reserves you are willing to share to keep our country running, please do. Otherwise maybe mind your own business.
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We have the established schedule by the EU to drop out of Russia's coal, oil and gas over time.
Ok, I understood, you decided continue sponsor and support Putin. Thanks for reply.
If you have any secret energy reserves
You always can buy oil and gas from US
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So you indeed are a troll, as I remembered. And you have no idea what you are talking about.
What a surprising combination! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I'm just showing how contradictory your position is
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you mean contradictory like selling fossil energy sources to us, so we can provide energy to our arms industry, so they can produce weapons to supply Ukraine?
surprise, that's the world in the 21st century, everyone is connected worldwide and it takes time to adjust, if someone is living in the past and will be excluded from worldwide trades, because of warmongering
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I mean contradictory like fight with Russia and supply its gas in transit to EU, and ask to transit more
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You mean contradicting like your own comments four months ago that the government of the Ukraine are Neonazis? And now you demand us to support them even better? Quite some change of mind.
My position meanwhile is pretty consistent. We axed coal and oil imports, gas will require more time. And I won't bother to explain you why, as that should be obvious enough for anyone following the global news in recent months.
And now farewell, little troll.
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My position doesn't changed. I just wanted you to clarify your position, and show contradictions in it. If this were done in too sarcastic way I apologise. Farewell and good luck
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You always can buy oil and gas from US
And that will magically fly over over the sky in no time to cross the ocean, in the masses the it is needed? It took years to establish the gas lines from RU to EU.
At the end of the day dependcy of RU resources will end, it just needs 2 or 3 years. Putin on the other hand can end it anytime.
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And that will magically fly over over the sky in no time to cross the ocean
Just in the same way how it all moves out from the USA to Asia. Just need change the direction. There are also pipes from Middle East. All EU has to do is just simply offer a higher price to suppliers. But apparently Putin is not so evil, since Europe does not want to do this.
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Yeah it's so simple, it just needs to change the direction and everything is fine. Keep on dreaming wet dreams of Putin's juices.
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naZi ruSS doesnt use tochkas anymore
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1546228487085776896
xD
soviet union always lie
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And why did you spam it here? How does this relate to my messege? Or you wanted to hear my opinion about it?
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I'm not complaining about anything =) I'm just analyzing the difference between supporting Afghanistan's army and Ukraine's army. In my opinion western politicians are scared to provide full military support to Ukraine, cuz they don't want Putin to lose this war till the end of this year. A huge amount of reasons behind this. I can't find any other explanation of such weak support in military. No planes, no tanks. Mostly artillery and vehicles for troops.
Btw, Afghanistan was supported and still is by Putin. Is this a secret? )) Month ago Taliban's politicians were invited to Russia to discuss economics :D
I'm upset about western world politicians sitting in expensive suits and discussing 4 months how to help Ukraine by some way that will not harm Putin too much. Let's send military, but not too much to piss off Mr.Putin. Let's send 1 000 000 000$ help, but purchase gas from Mr.Putin for x100 more amount of $. Let's help Ukraine to defend it's territory, but not attack Russia's. Isn't this war? )) I was sure when two countries are at war they both have the right to attack their enemy's territory.
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While there are some political motives in the background I think that to an extent the real reason west is so slow and careful to react because they are in fact afraid from Russia. Exactly what Putin wants - he is sadistic psychotic murderer hungry for power. The fact he is constantly testing NATO and EU and trying to push boundaries further and further is not a secret. Its know that he considers NATO to be weak.
The best and latest proof is Kaliningrad : Lithuania says - fuck Russia, there wont be any transit for goods under sanctions as per EU. What does Russia do? Threaten to fucking invade Lithuania making it sound like they are being oppressed or whatever. What does NATO say ? Oh, maybe lets allow them to transport these goods as not to provoke them completely ignoring sanctions set in place. It is fucking pathetic but it is understandable as NATO doesn't want full blown war on its turf. No one wants that. Basically you cant give in to Russia and you cant let them win either. IMO that is why all this situation has been as you describe.
Can Russia win against war with NATO? Not in a million years - Kremlin would be at the bottom of crater within minutes. But at the cost of countless lives of EU citizens and RUS citizens. west is civilized to an extent. Putin is not. He is ready to murder and murder and murder and murder and murder a bit more to get what he wants. While it definitely applies to US in middle east I think its a bit unfair to compare the two. These are astronomically different political and socioeconomically situations. Russia and US can wage war against each other through proxies like Afghanistan and it will be between them. In Ukraine we are risking of pulling the whole world into the conflict. It is very fragile situation that can't just be handled by throwing weapons. It would help but at the cost of consequences from whimsical choices of a very unstable dictator. I, as citizen of Latvia, don't want orcs leveling my country as it wasn't even here just because Putin has aneurysm and decides to end his last minutes on this world as some soviet union 2.0 restorer.
EDIT: Also adding to this - sanctions are going slow and not providing the effect we want... But that is again due to the fact that we are (thankfully or not) a democracy. And we value the opinion of others. Price cap on RUS oil exports? Would be great, but we have to deal with all of the countries that are not in favor of it. Same goes for putting on embargos etc. Gas imports could be banned.. Oil could be banned. but there is always someone who will struggle the most here and won't accept going full out..... so its a process.. sadly slow and at the cost of lives
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I understand this. But how is it possible to believe Putin will invade Lithuania or Finland, or Poland when his army is stuck in Ukraine for 4 months lol?! The main mistake of western politicians when they face Putin is believing he is another Stalin and today Russia is ussr. It's freaking not! Putin is mafia guy who loves luxury life. Russia is not ussr! Army is completely demoralized, corrupted, they don't believe their commanders. And the main thing - most russian soldiers serving in army only for the money. Not for Putin, Kremlin, Russia. What are you scared for? Do you really believe Putin will use nuclear weapon, while whole his family and his friends, and their families are living in Europe and USA? :D Even if he will decide to do so, his mighty friends will not allow this to happen.
People should stop drawing = symbol between Putin and Stalin, between Russia and ussr. It's completely not the same things. In ussr people didn't believe in God, but in grandpa Lenin and the idea western world is the enemy. In today Russia people are looking how to run away from this corrupted place and believe Putin is the biggest thief in Russia's history and western world isn't enemy, but friendly place for immigration :D
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Do you really believe Putin will use nuclear weapon
No. No, I don't.
But are we ready to risk everything on this idea that he is weak and not ready to risk? I don't think I am
Dont get me wrong - I agree with you. He is pathetic little piece of shit and doesn't hold a candle to stalin and ussr in terms of craziness and disregard for human life (and of course in vastness of his influence)
We consider everything coming out of Russia to be lies and propaganda. For example how he says they haven't even started anything serious in UA. Well, at least we think they have exhausted their army and resources by now. But does anyone really know this for certain? As you yourself pointed out - they are still earning shitload money from exports even with sanctions... Iran allegedly is providing them with hundreds of drones now. The playing field is just complicated and unpredictable. Remember how we thought they will declare war by 9th of May so they can conscript everyone? didn't happen, but somehow he is still pumping out poor russian citizens for his meatgrinder missions.
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So we should risk Ukraine army, Ukraine people and Ukraine territory? What's next? )) Should we risk Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Poland? Where is the line for western people and politicians?
If you are asking me in what I believe - I do believe western people have no idea how corrupted and destroyed is Russia today. It's army, it's economics, it's spirit of nation. I've been in Russia a lot of times and seen what's happening irl. Their government in expensive suits isn't connected to any politics - they are cosplaying western politicians and democracy. I have a lot of friends and clients from Russia. 99.9% of them are against the war and already left Russia. More than that, guys with pretty solid military experience from Russia I know didn't join Putin's army. Three guys of that experienced group of soldiers are almost each week getting calls for contracts. Russian army today is packed by non-educated soldiers, who will not be able to show Ukraine or Lithuania on map.
This fake-country is collapsing here and right now. And this war is a final nail in the coffin of Putin's cleptocratic government. It can't even be called "government" it's just mafia family ruling huge country, stealing all what they can steal and purchasing luxury yachts and apartment in Europe and USA, sending their child to study and live in Western World, but in the same time calling Western World to be ugliest place to live, full of gays and pedophiles via TV for their own civilians :D
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So we should risk Ukraine army, Ukraine people and Ukraine territory?
No, definitely not. That wasn't my point. IMO we shouldn't give in to any of their ultimatums. Instead isolate the country and make them bleed. I do wholeheartedly hope we will outright ban any oil and gas from Russia and become self sustainable in west. And I of course support giving Ukraine modern weapons so they can absolutely humiliate Russian army there. Preferably to a point another conflict doesn't even come to mind for Kremlin. The war is unjustifiable and I hope Russia will be held accountable throughout history just like nazi germany was. All the war criminals sentenced and money repaid for destruction committed.
I agree with everything else you are stating here. My point was about why wests response has been slow - basically its not due to hidden agendas or political games of not wanting to end the war, but due to the fact that west is still kowtowing to Russian demands which feeds the aggression even more as Putin thinks they can pressure west with fear only. The question is as you state - where is the line. I don't know, but I hope that west will grow a spine and say enough is enough. Just like with Kaliningrad. Lithuania is stating this as well, so hopefully NATO will not pressure them to let transit through. As far as I have noticed seems like RUS idea of retaliation is banning transit through Baltics themselves. If that is all they can do, I hope it will open eyes for the west as well that they are all bark and no bite.
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The fact he is constantly testing NATO and EU and trying to push boundaries further and further is not a secret.
Oh, this Russia, its territory is getting closer to NATO military bases. First it approached to Hungary, Poland and Czech Republic. After that come closer to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia. Wanted to get closer and approach to Ukraine. Vaughn now approached to Finland and Sweden
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Oh how dare they. Countries joining a defensive alliance. That truly is a risk for Russia.
Invading a country really helped that didn't it? Now they will see - oh how they will see. The defensive alliance will respect Russia now, no doubt. If you wouldn't fuck everything up wherever you go and would stop bullying every neighbor you have, maybe we wouldn't need a defensive alliance against you.
As I've already stated - maybe instead of waging wars and constantly threatening everyone you should have made friends around the world huh? USA came to EU, made friends with countries, made pacts, helped everyone out. EU became modern concept of united business, economy, culture. Russia on the other hand continued to belittle and bully everyone. Maybe instead of being a pain in the ass for everyone Russia should have kept friendly relations with Baltics, Scandinavia, Poland etc.? It is solely on the shoulders of arrogance and corruption of your government on why Russia is so widely disliked and why everyone wants to join against you.
I mean Finland and Sweden joining NATO is literally the most funny shit that could have happened. You invade a country thinking it would intimidate everyone - instead your receive heightened readiness for defense. And you still have the nerve to pull surprised pikachu face?
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Oh how dare they.
Every country has an obligation to protect its citizens. This is their right. But the security of some countries should not threaten the security of other countries. If you constantly move military bases to the east, then sooner or later you will get the opposite effect from the opposite side.
Countries joining a defensive alliance.
Could you explain then why NATO invaded in Libya? Does Libya wanted to attack NATO? Or maybe NATO isn't defensive alliance as you trying to tell here?
And I suppose there are no needs to explain about lots of US interventions. But seems like you don't care about that, because of course Russia is the biggest evil.
The world isn't just black and white. Before you blame someone, you should at least look in the mirror
USA came to EU, made friends with countries, made pacts, helped everyone out. EU became modern concept of united business, economy, culture. Russia on the other hand continued to belittle and bully everyone.
Yep, Russia bully EU with all her pipes and other economic projects, like this one
P.S. If you didn't mention, I'm from Ukraine. Yes, I'm Russian speaking and Russian thinking(meaning Russian is my native language, and in my head I think in Russian language). But I'm a citizien of another country. Think wider and try at least to understand motives of the opposite side.
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Think wider and try at least to understand motives of the opposite side.
All I will say to you is - you don't invade a sovereign country and kill civilians there. And this whatabaoutism wont justify what Russia has done in Ukraine over these months. My view is - I condemn actions that are done by USA and NATO as well. My stance against Russia doesn't mean I think what has been done around the world at other times is somehow justifiable. So maybe heed your own advice - think wider.
Sorry that I even started talking about general politics, so I will not answer more as not to turn this into another empty bullshit discussion about nothing as we will disagree either way. And I suggest you do the same. Support has been quit vocal in keeping this discussion on point.
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But the security of some countries should not threaten the security of other countries.
Exactly. As a Finn, having such a peaceful neighbor this close is making me feel safer already.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-arctic-base-miles-from-finnish-border-2015-1?r=US&IR=T
Could you explain then why NATO invaded in Libya? Does Libya wanted to attack NATO? Or maybe NATO isn't defensive alliance as you trying to tell here?
The answer is right there, if you would have bothered to read the first sentence.
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you mistaken intervention with invasion, it was all planes and ships, no full scale war like in Ukraine with ground units invading
and again using whataboutism about the US interventions, when people already explained, how the US got backlash for it and people protested against it, take Vietnam as the most prominent one
You don't need to rake up old discussions, we already had several pages before and just inflate the topic
Before you blame someone, you should at least look in the mirror
good advice, maybe you should follow it yourself
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Then, according to your logic, if Putin hit Ukraine only with missiles without "ground units invading", then everything would be ok?
take Vietnam as the most prominent one
It's not the most. It's the only one. Or you could name something else for the last 40 years?
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you twist my words, i never said anything like it would be okay, just pointed out you were wrong
It's not the most. It's the only one. Or you could name something else for the last 40 years?
here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
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here you go:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
Thank you
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In general, they did not voice what would be for the termination of transit, they were not named. They simply voiced wishes, but the rest was done by the bureaucrats in Brussels, they themselves did not know what to expect, since this was not said.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/russia-trolling-ukraine-traction-tiktok
Linvill said the IRA’s strategy was not to cause people to believe something new, but rather to sow doubt and cause distrust in information sources that are usually seen as legitimate, in particular to deter domestic opposition to the Russian president. “If you don’t believe in anything, you’re not going to fight for anything and you are more likely to go along with Putin,” he said.
does this sound familiar to anyone?
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Linvill said the IRA’s strategy was
UK government
The Irish Republican Army (IRA).
lel
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thanks for your spam, read the article and you would see it doesn't refer to the Irish Republican Army, but here, have a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
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You remember that train station hit by naZi ruSS with tochka ?
First they said they hit it, it turned out it was civilians that got hit so they lied it wasnt them. They even lied they dont use tochkas anymore.
Guess what. Well, you dont need to guess. Everybody knew it was a lie from the beginning.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1546228487085776896
Clearly naZi V is visible.
So new lie will be that they freshly captured them ?
poor orcs and their worshipers trolls
Of course there were obvious multiple tochkas use since then.
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Same story as when russian army hit malaysian boeing and killed 300 civilians. But... nothing happened after. Western world is too scared of Putin and too much needs his gas. It's just a 300 civilians. Casual damage.
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A little higher is painted, please post the correct video of the transportation, and not made from a photograph. Why they don’t go to court very much, they also don’t take on faith what they give.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/01/russia-trolling-ukraine-traction-tiktok
Linvill said the IRA’s strategy was not to cause people to believe something new, but rather to sow doubt and cause distrust in information sources that are usually seen as legitimate, in particular to deter domestic opposition to the Russian president. “If you don’t believe in anything, you’re not going to fight for anything and you are more likely to go along with Putin,” he said.
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This is what they do. They lie, and lie, and lie again. No remorse, no reason, just pure evilness.
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Do you want me to post a video of a Ukrainian soldier throwing a white paint balloon into the fire? And he was, unless removed.
And so this missile system was written off a long time ago (Belarus does not count, it is there) and the Iskander is used instead.
Yes, and thanks to the Italian journalists, who made a report indicating the number of the rocket, without its disguise, and there is a very interesting number.
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https://pikabu.ru/story/tochka_u_v_kramatorske__podrobnyiy_razbor_9016142#comments
Honestly, too lazy to rewrite. Here is an attempt to make the Russian Federation guilty, but there are 5 "possible" for 5 reasons, and some of them immediately show that it is impossible to accept. Not the message itself, but just the comments.
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Yes, it's always fun to see death and destruction. /s
I do hope you will get to experience all of this yourself, personally.
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Ah yes, classic reply. Don't forget to wish for slow and painful death for all my family and friends, mister peace walker :Ь
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Wonder what other reaction you expected when you ridiculed our misery.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Enjoy your orkistan, until you get drafted.
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For schizo-fascists, food for thought:
(from an Israeli online newspaper)
Israel to send new batch of defensive equipment to Ukraine
The latest aid package will include 1,500 helmets, 1,500 protective vests, hundreds of mine protection suits, 1,000 gas masks and dozens of hazmat filtration systems, according to Gantz’s office.
I doubt Israel gives neo-Nazis helmets and protective vests. Israel does not believe Ukraine is run by neo-Nazis.
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Информация для размышления:
Россия доставила на Украину и в Донбасс 42,5 тысячи тонн гумпомощи
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Ты что, об этом же написали не в BBC и не в Washington Post, значит такого события просто никогда не существовало.
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Как это благородно, доставлять гумпомощь в регионы, где она не понадобилась бы если бы Россия не развязала войну. Если кто-то выбьет тебе глаз отвёрткой а потом предложит пластырь - ты наверное будешь считать его благороднейшим из людей.
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Just here to show my support for Russia and Putin. Enjoy your day.
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From the bottom of my heart, fuck you for supporting the cuntry (sic) that does this: https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1547147444080836608
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You forgot to mention your biggest hero, Hitler. You support his doings too, right? Because it would be hypocritical if you don't.
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Never heard of Hitler. I have heard of Bandera though.
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are you sure you're in the right topic and your post wouldn't be better suited in RAT (russian awareness thread)?
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At last i found a person with his brain functioning right. W Richard
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у вас тут сплошные фэйки и ни капли правды))) смешно читать коменты укропов выдающих себя за Русских)) укропы и тут побираются,вечно с протянутой рукой))
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О, вата из бана вернулась. Ты там в офисе чтоль сидишь? Постишь говно вместе с другими дебилами
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скоро у тебя инета не будет))жди эскандер в гости))
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Waiting on the other paid trolls to also use the tactic of provoking outrage.
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i wonder where this sudden influx of new trolls is coming from or are they just second accounts?
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Most of them I've seen before - they're muted in my settings.
Like I mused before, I think the accounts and maybe even people behind them are real, just recruited to do this smearing and spamming, to blur the line of truth and make everyone else quection every news they see. russian cuntry knows a lot about gaslighting their own people, now they're paying others to do it for them.
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idk, i hear the same arguments from them over and over again, so it could be second accounts or their state-funded propaganda is that plain and they parroting the same things over and over again
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Yup, that's because they get handed a rulebook, a set of guidelines on how to start and continue the conversation, along with main themes to touch, and tons and tons of pre-approved links they can spam. So in essence, all of the trolls are the tentacles of a single organism, single mind behind their every move.
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i see, i conclude they're all brainless propaganda zombies
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Maybe not brainless, since there are real people behind the accounts, but yes, zombies/bots 100%. There is no point to argue with them, it only helps them to spam more messages.
Disengaging as soon as possible ruins their plans, so that's a viable strategy of handling them.
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i recognized this, even debunking them over and over again with links from valid sources doesn't stop them
sad to see this thread taken over by russian trolls
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There is no changing their minds, they know fully that they are helping a bloody dictator to commit genocide. The best we can do is try to shut them up with proof, but even that fails, because they go off-topic immediately.
Best not engage at all if possible, or do it as rarely as you can.
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Time for some cheering fireworks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrxSbu9lZSE
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I just found an interesting project that automatically translates and archives telegram messages related to this war.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPC6ssTQqHk
(Not so) fresh kremlin's fakes
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"THOUSAND BAYRAKTARS WERE DESTROYED" although there are only 300 Bayraktars drones in the world. The Russian army is impressive, but less than the Russians who swallow bullshit day after day.
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I wish you know the meaning of > symbol... Glorow, at least try to read source of information that you are posting here (not the first time you are posting such "correct" information).
On July, 13th official information - 1522 UCAVs were destroyed (not only Bayraktars...).
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Where you saw that I wrote about that?
Your message was
although there are only 300
but correct is "more than 300" (so it could be 700 or 453, wiki article you've mentioned doesn't contain that info).
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so then u hear "Bayraktars" ur lazy brain automatically complete sequence to "Bayraktar TB2".
but normally, then ppl saying "Bayraktars" - they means whole Bayraktars family. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baykar#Products
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So you say Ukraine had a thousand bayraktars... That's just absolute bullshit.
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You seem to have a fan club following you around. :D
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What a fan club, I feel like I walked on dog shit. I guess Russian bots have to keep trolling otherwise they are forced to go to the battlefield.
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u can count top15 message post contributors in the current discussion.
here we are... top5 or top3 will be pay-bots.
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cementales, Bazilies and who's the third one?
you can easily figure out the paid trolls by looking for talking about russian matters and spreading propaganda from government-funded media
But if you have proof about western bot farms i would be happy to see a link, which can proof your claim
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