This is so sad to read. :/
I also lost a good friend of mine who killed himself. I feel you. ;)
You feel guilty of not being able to help enough and this feeling is not supposed to disappear soon.
You do the right thing when you speak about it, I guess it's the only working method to handle these kind of tragedies.
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Don't blame yourself, you did the best you could.
But it's understandable you blame this shitty society and these assholes who answered you and her.
I don't know if there is something or what it is after but i hope she has reached a better place.
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Man, that's so wrong. Even with all the progress humanity has made in the years in an attempt to better ourselves, it's sad that some people have never changed, both "culturally" and in character/kindness. Much respect for your loyalty and kindness to a good friend I am certain will be dearly missed.
Strength and harmony to you, friend.
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There are many things wrong in this story, I'm really upset for this.
I'm sorry for your friend and for your loss, but don't lose your hope and believe in your dream. Now you have another reason to accomplish your dream, you must do it for her too.
Don't lose your expectations, this world is deeply insane but you can do it!
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That's the kind of story that saddens me and angers me at the same time. Let me explain.
Her story and yours are a tragedy. It saddens all of us and I'm glad you shared it. We need more sharing of this kind of story because, if not, it's just a statistic. That is what angers me. Because for each story we hear like hers and yours, there are thousands and thousand, if not millions, more that we will never hear about. People all wants happy endings like in the movie and we tend to not wanting to know all those invividual tragedy. Some will say they are sorry for your loss and they mean it, really. But it's human nature to forget the bad and look for the good, so we forget those tragedy and in the end it becomes a statistic.
This story touched me because I am struggling with depression myself and I've felt the despair you are feeling. It's really not for the same reason, obviously, I'm from Quebec in Canada and everything is peaceful here. You are from a part of the world where there is a power struggle and a religion that strongly influence a lot of people.
Some have said it before me, but find the strength to live on and tell her story in whatever format you can do and share it. Live your dreams and hers too she will be there by your side and you'll feel it. That's the only way, that I see, that you'll be able to tell the whole world that this kind of things must stop. We need to hear more stories like this so we can start to make change. We need to hear the millions tragedy instead of a thousand statistic.
Grieve for now. Then fight for your life. We need more people like that understand that those kind of things must stop.
Thank you for sharing her story. Here at steamgift, we will be there to listen and sympathise.
Martin Desbiens
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I hear about these things all the time in Canada.
We have a growing Muslim Pakistani population here and they make sure that their women get married off by early 20s.
This will happen more often nowadays.
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How unfortunate that there's so much Islamophobia in this thread instead of blaming bad parenting for not recognizing her mental health issues and getting her the help she needed. And* OP's naive "It was up to strangers on the internet to help her! She was fine with me so it was everything and everyone else!" thinking is part of the problem.
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Yes, because Islam is good and everyone is stupid for not seeing just how great a religion it is. Give me a break. Also, while you are giving me a break, go actually read the comments. My comment down here is the closest thing to "islamophobia" in this thread, and even then it's just stating how things are >_<
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I have been reading your statements about Islam, and I have yet to read one that is actually true. Remember that Islam is a text-based religion. If something is not in the Qur'aan and Sunnah, it is not part of Islam. You have had some experience with some Muslims, but you do not seem to have much knowledge of Islam. I will not argue with you about your opinion of those Muslims whom you have met, but I cannot let you lie about Islam and remain silent. Much of what you attribute to Islam is a description of your culture, not Islam.
Also, what I said to Thirteen13 also applies to everyone else in this thread, including you. Consider this your warning.
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What the text says and what the surrounding culture (be it on a larger systematic scale or in repeating pockets) does do not need to correlate absolutely. Human beings are flawed and subject to group mentalities, and religion is a strong catalyst for creatively negative or destructive interpretation. What Razielite experienced may not reflect Islam by its word, but their experiences certainly reflect what Islam is capable of influencing. I doubt their view was born as a total figment of imagination. You may consider their view to be hyperbolic or anecdotal, but they are obviously suffering as a result of their ongoing personal experience with religious or cultural matters, and it came to a head with the death of a friend, and the silence of his grief. Anger at the driving forces behind a suicide is a normal part of this grief.
Perhaps you could find a common ground in critique of how the actions of those related stood outside of what Islam actually dictates, and how it misrepresents its adherents or harms non-believers? Or perhaps separate non-Islamic behaviors from cultural factors. As you seem familiar with the subject matter, you are in a good position to clarify and separate the actions of family and the like from what the OP claims as religious attributes?
I worry given the nature of the subject, that simply dishing out a warning when such a strong sense of silencing or lack of agency is a key issue in their pain, and will only make things even more bitter to them. Some effort to reconciliation given your familiarity could go a long way. Education or debate may not be the best thing given how sore the subject is, but when the alternate is a "hush" on top of other ongoing "hush"es they dealt with IRL, perhaps it might be the honey that could replace the vinegar?
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What the text says and what the surrounding culture (be it on a larger systematic scale or in repeating pockets) does do not need to correlate absolutely.
You misunderstand. As I mentioned, Islam is a text-based religion. If something is forbidden, it is forbidden, and if something is required, it is required. Everything else is allowed. Islam is a framework within which we Muslims fit our respective cultures, not the other way around. This does not mean that every Muslim is adhering to Islam 100%, but it does mean that learning the religion and attempting to follow it is the foundation of our faith. Unfortunately, too many Muslims assume that their culture---because it is a Muslim culture---is equivalent to Islam, so they do not learn their religion, and they do not necessarily adhere to it.
As you seem familiar with the subject matter, you are in a good position to clarify and separate the actions of family and the like from what the OP claims as religious attributes?
I am in such a position, but this forum is not the place for religious instruction. To give you an idea of "scope" of the subject, I could hope to cover "the basics" within a school year.were I teaching Islam as part of university curriculum. Scholars of the religion spend an entire lifetime in study. More to the point, however, I have already pointed out (without silencing anyone) that discussion and the sharing of opinion is allowed as long as it is kept civil and respectful. I have also pointed out that (any) Muslim culture =/= Islam.
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It was a legitimate question. I had never heard a religion being referred to as a "text-based" religion. I'm guessing it means a religion without sacred writings?
Are there any religions without sacred writings?
Which religions don't have a holy book?
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What would a "non-text" based religion be?
I am not sure your wording is the best choice, but I believe I know what you are asking. Some religions allow a priest class or adherents to the faith to "interpret" the meaning of their texts, leading to different understandings within the religion. Those interpretations come from different people's understandings, and none can say which understanding is correct because none of those people are the authors of the texts and cannot therefore explain what he or she intended when he or she authored the text. In effect, such religions are based on hearsay rather than textual evidence (i.e. "non-text-based" religions). This is quite different from Islam..
In Islam, Muslims are not allowed to add anything to the religion nor take anything away. The texts were dictated by the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him), and explained by him, and all of that was written down while he was still alive and able to correct any misunderstandings. The texts do not change, and any understanding of the texts which differs from that given by the person to whom they were revealed is mistaken. Studying Islam is therefore a matter of learning the texts and learning their meaning. There is no "interpreting," no "adaptation," and no "cultural differences" within Islam. Islam is what it is, and Muslims fit their culture inside the framework of Islam, not vice versa. As far as I am aware, no other religion is approached in this manner, and that is why those who do not know Islam find it difficult to understand. They try to relate to Islam based upon their own ideology, but you cannot do that with Islam.
Despite Islam being solidly grounded in textual evidence, some Muslims (for whatever reason) attempt to interpret the texts using their own intellect (or some other source) and eschew the explanation given by the one who is the source of those texts. In effect, they are claiming to understand what the author was thinking better than the author himself. Such an assertion is ludicrous, but human beings are not always rational. The result is that we, too, have different sects which have sprung up over the course of time. Only one of them continues to cling to the interpretation and implementation of Islam set down by the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).
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I agree, my wording wasn't the best choice, but you understood. Thank you for taking the time to respond and the explanation. I really do appreciate it.
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Which country got the treatment of homosexuals right? Some Muslim countries have death penalty, somewhere it's illegal, or only legal for women, but there are countries where anti-discrimination laws are in place, and same-sex marriage is legally recognized in Albania.
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You are asking the wrong question. If you are talking about within an Islamic State, the answer is "none of the above." If you are talking about non-Islamic states (because there currently is no Islamic State), then the answer is "not applicable." Neither answer increases understanding. I suggest you study Islam if you actually want to know more about it..
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Actually it seems we're in agreement. Perhaps my wording was off. My overarching point was more that I was worried their anger originating from grief would earn them a punishment, when they are in a state that doesn't lend itself to behaving in a persons best frame of mind. Their anger at Islam may be better phrased as anger in cultural values if they were in a more lucid state of mind, but grief tends to blur the lines. I'm sure there is a long discussion in this about unspoken rules or behaviors within religion (as it is seldom the core of a religion that is objected to, but how people interpret and then reflect that upon their surroundings), but as you said it's not the best place for it. I was more hoping to point out that while their anger may be misplaced, it may not be entirely unjustified (even if misattributed?).
I was hoping to calm matters that you apparently already have a good handle on. I just didn't want to see a grieving person butt heads with admin unnecessarily, but it seems my concerns were misplaced. Where matters of faith and emotion are concerned, it can be a really explosive mixture. Guess my attempt at mediation was totally unnecessary and wonkily worded at best? Heh.
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I'm sure there is a long discussion in this about unspoken rules or behaviors within religion (as it is seldom the core of a religion that is objected to, but how people interpret and then reflect that upon their surroundings), but as you said it's not the best place for it.
Such things do not apply in Islam, as I mentioned in my response, here. Razeilite would know this if he actually knew Islam. From his description of his social circle, it seems unlikely that anyone in his immediate vicinity would qualify as an actual Scholar (someone knowledgeable in the religion). It is a sad fact that most Muslims are unfamiliar with their religion, these days. We Muslims are billions in number, but we are fortunate if we have even one true Scholar in our entire country. To compound the problem, the Scholars are dying off, one by one, and none from among their students can replace them.
Thank you for your help in keeping things civil, though. )
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I didn't lie about anything on how it is here...
Nor have I claimed otherwise. However, instead of saying "This is how it is here," you have been saying "This is Islam." That is why I took issue with it. The things you have been complaining about are not only not part of Islam, many of them are prohibited in Islam. As much as I would love to discuss the topic with you, you have correctly pointed out that this forum is not the place for it.
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Me when someone insults the soviet union:
However, instead of saying "This is how it was there," you have been saying "This is Communism." That is why I took issue with it. The things you have been complaining about are not only not part of Communism, many of them are prohibited in Communism. As much as I would love to discuss the topic with you, you have correctly pointed out that this forum is not the place for it.
:)
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heh... This sort of highlights why we avoid discussing religion and politics on this site, doesn't it? )
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To elaborate on the point (since it's not a religious argument): You said you hated Islam, but the things you hate are more ingrained into Yemenese culture. It's difficult for Muslims (and outsiders) to separate the religion from the culture because "everyone is a Muslim" and "everyone must follow culture" on top of that so it's just presumed they're both the same thing. You would not feel the same if you were Lebanese or Egyptian for example which don't do those things. Worst case and most honest scenario is that your friend died due to backwards Yemenese culture. Even India has a problem of poor families doing forced marriages, including child marriages, and they're a completely different religion.
But the fact is that you're still an angry, cowardly child and that your country will never change because you all think and do the same nothings that get the same results. You'd rather hide in your room playing games and complain about how powerless and useless you are than have lived a life that would have made you successful enough to have saved her. You complain about online toxicity while being toxic online in "revenge", then on top of that you have the nerve to say you want to commit suicide too when you're not even in a woman's situation over there. You don't have a mental health problem, you just have an immaturity problem. You're in a country ruled by men when you'll never grow out of being a boy and THAT is the real tragedy of this story. You don't need a pat on the back, you need a kick in the ass. You have problems? Everyone does. Welcome to Earth. We find solutions, not escapes. Try it sometime.
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Hey, just wanted to say that I am in the same boat as you and I know exactly how you feel. In fact the idiot you're replying to is factually wrong - "You would not feel the same if you were Lebanese". I AM Lebanese and I feel the same. Westerners have NO idea how it is like to live under Islamic oppression and need to stop talking like they know what that is. MaximumBunny takes it a step way too far though: explicitly bullying someone in the very thread where they explain that their friend killed themself due to bullying??? What the actual hell. This is extreme anti-social behavior that needs to be checked with a psychologist at best.
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Well you're wrong about everything as usual. You don't upset me, you make me sad because you're unable to accept your responsibilities and are unopen to valid criticisms of you and your ignorant views on the world. You're a child that wants to be right about everything, spews back attacks whenever he gets mad, and then spends the rest of his day hiding in his room hating everything. If you want to bury your head in the sand then that's your choice. Your dead friend and your parents have every right to be ashamed of you.
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Your dead friend and your parents have every right to be ashamed of you.
Holy fucking shit, I've seen a lot of insanity on the internet but this is new levels of messed up.
...Well, thanks at least for confirming my theory that nothing makes people as evil as religion does. I mean, I already had plenty of evidence, but "the world's biggest asshole, the worst scum I've ever seen in years on the internet, was motivated by thinly veiled religious fervor" is definitely up there
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He's also wrong about everything and is as ignorant as you. You would have been better off born as a daughter to your family since you clearly won't ever grow up to be a man.
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Don't let someone else's wrongdoing convince you to do likewise. If you follow his lead, you will end up in the same hole.
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Razielite is literally grieving for the death of a friend and isn't phased by your petty attempts at riling him like the social gutter-parasite you are. I wonder if you consider it "manly" to try inflict yourself upon those who are in distress? Or when you use the newly deceased as convenient ammunition for your petty lashing out? Dress it up and pretend as much as you want, there is no motive behind your actions other than self-indulgence at the expense of someone already in pain. I can only hope for your sake that you are young and have yet to gain perspective or empathy on these matters, because if you do not have the excuse of youthful arrogance then you really are a tragic example of hypocrisy. Regardless, you are in no position to be dictating what a "man" is supposed to be, when you publicly behave like squealing child denied a random whim. Grow up.
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This is supposed to be a public forum where people are free to express their opinions. If you are going to participate, you need to keep things civil. Flaming and insulting other people is out of bounds. I would have suspended you myself, but someone else beat me to it.
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That is unfortunately what good people of all religions say when others of their religion do bad things in its name. If most of those who hold your religion behave a certain way, and back it on an interpretation of that religion, then protest as you will, that's what that religion will be seen as, and that's how it is to be judged. They are as true believers as you are. They likely think you are in the wrong.
I've seen it with Christians and Jews and Muslims. That's a major problem with religion, every religious book has enough inconsistencies and enough interpretations that people can do terrible things in its name and believe they are following it to the letter. Religion can be good and helpful in many ways, but it's also a conservative force, a force for staying backward, and a force to put people into a mold even if that would break them.
Islam isn't what you say Islam is. It may be for some, but it's not for others. Muslims have fought wars about the interpretations, and still do. But few if any religious people will blame their religion. They will still defend the religion and claim that those doing bad things due to it are interpreting it wrongly, even if these bad interpretations rise a thousand times over a thousand years.
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If most of those who hold your religion behave a certain way, and back it on an interpretation of that religion, then protest as you will, that's what that religion will be seen as, and that's how it is to be judged.
Your reasoning in this particular statement is flawed.
First, the number of adherents to an idea does not dictate its veracity, and behavior of a majority of adherents does not define a religion. Taking Christianity as a concrete example, The beliefs held by the majority of Christians today are in juxtaposition to those held by a majority of Christians circa 350 C.E. While you might claim that one of those ideologies was the "authoritative" version, and Christianity should therefore be judged accordingly, you cannot apply that claim to both.
Second, there is only one authoritative interpretation of Islam. I mentioned this, above. While it would be reasonable to judge the quality of the Muslim population based upon their adherence (or lack thereof) to their professed faith, or to judge the practice of the religion by those who actually adhere to it, it is unreasonable to judge a belief system based upon those who do not practicing it.
Third, the manner in which a religion is perceived is determined largely by those doing the perceiving. Depending upon how much a person actually knows about a religion, his or her preconceived notions about what a religion is and should be, and his or her interpretation of past experiences tied to that religion and its followers, his or her assessment of the religion might be 100% factual, 100% fictional, or anything in-between. "Judging" a religion is problematic at best, but fools go where wise men fear to tread.
Islam isn't what you say Islam is.
The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) told us what Islam is. I agree with him. You do not. I choose his explanation of Islam over yours. It is true, however, that my perception of reality may differ from yours. You may claim a rose is yellow while I say it is red, but we cannot both be correct. I do not trust my own senses or intellect, so I check them on a regular basis to determine if I might be mistaken. Thus far, all indications still show me the rose is red. You are free to disagree.
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Even in the US, it's only been in the past couple of decades where mental health has become a subject that is talked about openly. Prior to that there was a stigma surrounding it and people didn't really know much about it. Maybe there is a good side to all the big pharma commercials during televised sports games. ;)
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this is what its like to live here in a 3rd world Muslim country
Well, that's Islam for you. Women are nothing but slaves by your standards (and also everyone who isn't a muslim should be tortured to death), yet there's an alarmingly large part of population in western countries that claims that Islam is a perfectly innocent and peaceful religion that we should most certainly accept in our western culture. Even some of the women jumped on the "Islam is good" bandwagon, imagine that :/
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Well, that's Islam for you.
No, it is not. Neither you nor Razielite give any indication that you have actual knowledge about the religion, but this is not the place to instruct you. Nor is this the place to bash on a religion, culture, ethnicity, et cetera. You are entitled to your own opinion, but keep things respectful and civil. This is a warning.
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Imgur is a disgusting pile of garbage....
No, Imgur is a site. There are people who use that site who are disgusting piles of garbage, just as there are people who use that site who are good and decent, but the site itself is just a site.
You talk a lot about "absolutes." "Everyone" this... "Nobody" that... "Never," "always," "nothing we can do," "impossible," and so forth. You could be using these words because that is how you feel at the moment, but you might also be using these words because that is exactly how life seems to you. Regardless, these words describe a view of the world which is "walled in" and without possibility. That view of the world is a false one, but one that is very common among young people because they have not lived long enough to learn that there are always alternatives. Always. Those other options must simply be found out.
I hate this because I can't even talk about it with anyone here because then people will know that she used to have an online relationship with a boy and it will ruin her reputation...
Yet you have just done so. There are people in the world with whom you could talk about it, and some of them might even have something helpful to say in response. As you have learned from Imgur, however, you want to determine the "right people" with whom to discuss things. The "wrong people" would simply increase your difficulties. The only thing worse than no guidance is bad guidance.
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It's not easy for people to talk about depression. Many don't understand it. Even those who do, many lack the ability to offer support to them beyond the basic words of encouragement. I don't mean that as disparagement. It's just that few people have the patience and empathy to really listen to someone. Those people who do are special and I wish we had more of them.
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I can't find any words to offer that would meaningfully help lift your grief.
Heartbreak like this is not something I would wish on anyone, but now you have the burden and the privilege of her memory to carry with you. I can only imagine how much it hurts given how you had growing feelings for her, but for all the tragic loss and stifled potential, you got to see the real person behind the mask. You got to hear her real thoughts and feelings, and share the whimsical daydream moments that your environment would frown upon or snuff out. Some small spark of her lives on in your memory. The real human that few others would have glimpsed. She no longer has to endure the suffocating expectations, she can rest, but for now, you have to live on. Try to carry that little spark of her in your heart, and live well so that you might kindle her little brightness inside yourself and share it with others. And when you finally reach a place in your life where you have some small handfuls of happiness and peace of mind, you can think of her, and through your own heart tell her that you're going to make it. And maybe, in your loss, and in her rest, you might be able to pass that spark on. It is sad to think of, but there will be others just like you, and just like she was. If enough people hold that kind of spark inside their hearts, then perhaps something can change.
But for now? Right now?
Give yourself time to come to terms with it all.
Even if you never spoke or wrote a single word on it, your feelings and grief would still be valid. It isn't much coming from just another stranger online, much less someone who has argued with you in these very forums, but all I can do for you here as just another random nobody, is bear witness to the feelings you have. Sorry for your loss. Hang in there.
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Always those brainwashed religious shitheads. Religions are really cancer and Islam is the worst of them all.
However, don't blame yourself. You're already so much better than them, but you won't change them.
Stay strong, maybe you can leave those weak "believers" behind some day. Your hate will probably eat you up otherwise.
There is always a way to start somewhere new 🌼 wishing you the best
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You are entitled to your opinion, but keep your posts civil. You have been warned.
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