Are you upset about it?
Missing two, oh well, no big loss there. (Thought I did buy steam gift for one since I had coupon, Sucks that I had to give some cents to them).
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"Valve has stopped doing business with Digital Homicide for being hostile to Steam customers."
So when is Valve going to stop doing business with Valve... I know of several hostities to Steam customers they did, one this very week.
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Don't worry, there are other trash going around. like this one.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/529000/
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Well, we always have the DH fanclub, they're still making games.
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The first thing that came to mind for me was "Nice, that's going to bump up my removed games count" xD
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You're missing an option. I'm upset that it didn't happen earlier, and only when they threatened Valve themselves, because screwing over thousands of customers wasn't bad enough.
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Valve happilly screws over thousands (more) customers themselves (Mobile authenticator anyone?)
And we all know it was a scorched earth approach just because Valve's 3 games; TF2, CS:GO and DOTA2.
It's funny how willing they are to screw over all their customers for their games while they're not even gamemakers anymore to begin with.
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How is a measure put there to protect people from fraud screwing anyone over except scammers?
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Forced protection requiring a smartphone. Not any, you need an apple or android! How does that not screw over people...
Most people need to get around that with emulators, with all the risks attached to that. How is having to use a 3rd party workaround to "fix" the "fix" a sollution?
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How about Educating people not to click suspicious link or trading with people they don't know. Considering the amount of Scam Threads QQing and Ranting that is still ongoing till now.
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That's apparently too costly or timely or something. Also SMAO wasn't "meant again scammers"... what is what meant against. Ehm, singe-point of failure of the PC. Which has shifted entirely to the phone. Since no-one loses their phones and stuff.
Implement phone-activation, make it required, don't even make it 2-way authentication... typical Valve.
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would like to c jim sterling or critical biscuit comments to thatg xD
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http://techraptor.net/content/digital-homicides-games-removed-steam
Update: Valve has responded to our question, confirming that they did delist the games. This was what Doug Lombardi of Valve had to say:
Valve has stopped doing business with Digital Homicide for being hostile to Steam customers.
R.I.P.
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am i dreaming? Is the DH shovelware hell finally..over?
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Indeed, the struggle is over.
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I am not very Happy about it. It was a very cheap, fast garanted way to idle the Games from them for the cards and create badges. Yes All their Games I think was scrap and I would never play them, but there much more very Bad Games on Steam. Will Steam delate them All now? If you Start this One of the scrap Games and See that the game really so Bad how it is described, you would idle the game. ( Meaned only Games that you cant give back). For me isnt any differense between this Games.
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They won't delete the games from your library. They just won't be able to be purchased at all anymore.
I get what where you're coming from, but I can't understand anyone not being positive about this. Digital Homicide produced nothing but complete crap and any sort of criticism levied against them they flipped out about.
Digital Homicide being removed from Steam is a good thing. There needs to be at least a minimal amount of quality control on Steam.
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Quality control is a relative matter. What might be good for you might not be good for me and vice versa. Don't think it's a good thing when they stop selling any type of game [not considering the legal issues here].
If they stop selling a game because you don't like it or the next person doesn't, where does it go? And why do you even care what I buy or not? More important: why does it bother you that it's being sold on steam? I'd care that I'm not able to buy a game anymore if the reason is because you and a bunch of other people think it should not be sold on steam.
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I didn't love them but they didn't bother me. I certainly understand Valve's side on this matter but am not happy that those games are gone. It's freedom of supply and demand. Never paid 1 dime for those games but don't think people should want them gone from Steam as if they should have never been sold there in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are not garbage... still people should be free to buy whatever they want. Just because a game does not interest someone it doesn't mean steam shouldn't sell them. Don't understand why people care really, they are not obliged to buy them. And they must have a lot of free time to even notice, keep track and care that much.
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it's not just about the game quality. the main reason is how they behaved. they censored critism. heavily. they acted against professionals (jim sterling) and hurt their income with youtube dmca claims. and they banned everyone on their steam forum that said anything negative about them. including myself, for a negative review. they are the assholes of the industry, and i am glad they're gone now. they deserve nothing else.
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I get that and I understand the legal issues in this case. I'm not questioning that and I believe that they got what they deserve.
But most people are happy that those games are gone because they were crap and they believe steam shouldn't have sold them in the first place. On every single greenlit page you go there's someone saying that that specific game should not be sold on steam. That's what I don't get, you know... that much hate... why does it bother people. It's like saying I love yellow and hate white, so white should not exist.
They do that a lot with VN's for example. But why go to a VN greenlit or community page just to trash it? I hate RPG and yet don't visit a single rpg greenlit page. I don't even vote 'no'... just because I wouldn't buy it, it doen't mean other people wouldn't.
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i agree to a certain point. but that doesn't really account for games that really are objectively bad (as objective as one can be in this matter). and i believe there is a line to cross for that to be true.
my review of slaughtering grounds is my best rated review ever. 98% of nearly 1000 people agree that this is a bad game. the other reviews were also almost all negative. so most of the community agrees it's really, really bad. we can also compare it to other games of that genre and find that it offers nothing new, does everything worse, is in a very bad state from a technical standpoint, and so on. that is very different from your example with the VNs. some people like them, some do not. i personally don't like them (or i didn't find the one i like yet). but just as you i would never actively try tro prevent them from being on steam. i know other people like them. so let them have fun. my subjective opinion doesn't count here. but wouldn't you agree that if almost the entire community has the same opinion about a game, that it's almost an objective one then? and if you admit that, i would say the statement that these games should not be on steam is a very valid one. digital homicide games are a bit like samsung s7 note's. some people still have fun with them right now. but i think most people would agree and we could objectively say that they should not be on the market, since they explode and burn people. ;)
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Well, I think you have described the actual problem in your first sentence: "as objective as one can be in this matter". Personally, I don't really think it is possible at all to be subjective in this matter. We can, of course, judge the technical aspects like performance, bugs, etc. But for the rest? Pure subjectivity.
And the real problem would be something else. The moment you remove something because it is bad (because the community agrees to it) you create a precedent. So you would have to either define a cut-off (when is a game bad enough to be removed? review score? how treat joke reviews? how many reviews necessary? after what time? ....) or you would have to live we an insane amount of discussion (why was game A removed and not game B? developers asking those justified question would be less a problem than the customers loving or hating those games). Even worse, as soon as a cut-off exists groups would be formed with the goal to remove bad games from Steam. You and me know very well that the amount of work people who hate something are doing is ridiculous. To give the userbase power to get something removed from a Store is just a bad idea no matter how you look at it (at least in my opinion). There are of course cases where one would have to act like false advertising, censoring any form of criticism or stolen assets. Still in a lot of cases it is really hard to tell.
Also you have to consider that many games are coming from Greenlight meaning there are people who said they are willing to buy said games. So there exists an interested userbase for most of the games. This is, of course, under the assumption the users are smart enough to understand the actual voting process. So if a "bad game" appears on Steam in most cases you have to blame the community (us included) no one else. I for one think that Valve has choosen one of the better way in NOT doing any kind of quality control to the games it accepts (through Greenlight) and let the community regulate it. Otherwise you would just create more discussion. More than we have right now.
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Well, I think you have described the actual problem in your first sentence: "as objective as one can be in this matter". Personally, I don't really think it is possible at all to be subjective in this matter. We can, of course, judge the technical aspects like performance, bugs, etc. But for the rest? Pure subjectivity.
the question is how we define objectivity. if we say that if almost everyone agrees something is bad, then it's objectively bad - then this is probably the case with slaughtering grounds.
but yeah, i agree with a lot you said. and the basic idea of greenlight is a great one, and maybe it should stay that way without valve interfering in any way (because we could argue that any kind of quality control defeats the purpose of greenlight). the main problem i think is, how greenlight votes are counted. only the upvotes count, the downvotes have no effect. i think that is a big problem, and it heavily supports the other big problem with greenlight - votes are often bought by the developers. they promise free steam keys for every vote. and all that makes it so easy to get on steam. all they need is a certain amount of upvotes - and bam, they're on steam. i bet if downvotes were counted, we would not have had a single DH game in the store. you're right, in a perfect world the community should regulate what comes through greenlight and what does not. but the actual implementation makes it so easy to manipulate that. and that's why we have games on steam that 99% of the gamers would never buy.
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IMO the only things that do not belong on Steam are just free Unity-assets splattered together and sold, no effort put in. Of which there are quite a few now actually.
They are pretty much the definition of scam, and that has nothing to do with the "quality" (which "shockingly" is bad stuffing just assets in and doing nothing else)
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Jim Sterling isn't a professional, that's why he bullies people on YouTube.
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sure he is. he earns his money with his videos. that's the definition of professional.
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He earns his money through advertising and sponsorship, rather than being paid directly for doing a job, that is literally the definition of an amateur.
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no, it's not. he was a professional when he worked for destructoid. now he does the same thing. only his source of income has changed. how does that change him being a professional? by your definition, every single youtuber on the planet is an amateur. a big part of his payment comes from patreon, by the way. so he gets directly paid by his customers. doesn't get more professional than that.
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It only seems like bullying when the developer in question is so bad at EVERYTHING they do. Pointing all that out doesn't mean it's bullying. Also this whole thing started because DH bitterly responded to Sterling's review of Slaughtering Grounds with a lot of nasty comments which made them look like unprofessional dicks.
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He often try's to degrade people because they have created something that he doesn't like, that's bullying. Lots of people don't like TB, but Sterling could learn an awful lot from him.
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i can see how you can see it as bullying, and i can even partially agree. but, it wasnt really that way at first. imo it started out as a typical criticism of a crappy game, but the devs took such offense of it and turned it into a really big deal at which point yes, bullying started happening, from DH.. they started the bullying imo.. calling jim names and directly insulting him.. thats where i'd say the least professionalism came out.. at which point yes, jim stepped up his game and fought back harder which made it look like an even bigger bully fight... attempting to silence your critics with flamatory comments like they did backfired on them, and now we all get a good laugh at their angered tempers.
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They wanted drama they got it in a nutshell. As expected one of the few things working good at Valve are the lawyers coz steam love monnies. And to beat opponent first you have to cut their source of income, good job valve actually :)
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Sad thing though is that Valve probably wouldn't have done shit if their own hides and reputation was not at stake. Good if they take action against abusive devs, but i'm putting this under the "trying to save their own ass"-category for now.
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Valve was only getting subpoenaed to hand over contact information on the users in question so the lawsuit could proceed. They weren't actually on the hook for anything. Now, though, they're probably going to get sued for impairing Digital Homicide's ability to do business.
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Talk about shooting yourself in the foot on the part of Digital Homicide. Not that that is surprising, because they are retarded and will never learn. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Anyway, this is loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong overdue. Dunno wtf Valve was waiting for.
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Before, it was a case of them going after a critic, which Valve decided to stay out of because it doesn't really do anything to Valve's bottom line. Now, it's them going after Valve's customers, which can actually hurt Valve's reputation and income, so they stepped up.
Or in one word: money.
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Yeah well they also did not make actual games, but pieces of shit cobbled together haphazardly and masquerading as games as an excuse to market Steam trading cards, so I have a problem with that just merely based on principle. If you aren't making an earnest effort to actually produce a decent quality game then I say GTFO. No one could possibly develop dozens of games simultaneously and have any of them have any serious quality control without a massive staff and resources, and even then it's a tough thing to pull off. Valve probably didn't do it sooner because they were making money off of all the card sales but I have to condemn them for that and not caring enough about QC or a what a developer like DH was doing behind the curtain. Valve should have stepped up a long time ago, and in my opinion not doing so showed an egregious lack of good judgment and/or gross negligence. It's one thing to have some devs in your store unintentionally producing some bad games, but it's another entirely to have one with an ulterior motive flooding it with trash on purpose.
edit: you blacklisted me for merely expressing my opinion? lol
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You're talking about the company that rather silences 50% of it's customers than going after about 50 devs for boosting reviews.
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As far as Valve stepping up goes, it's exactly what you said. They were making money on the card sales, and if anything, the controversy was probably selling more copies of their games than they would have sold otherwise. A comapny's first obligation is always to the bottom line, so until Digital Homicide did something that would obviously hurt the bottom line, they were tolerated. Nobody was boycotting Steam over Digital Homicide being allowed to sell games there. People would absolutely have stopped using Steam if Valve allowed a dev to bully the userbase.
And no, I've had you blacklisted for quite a while. I never blacklist people for opinions, only rulebreaking.
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And that's why I have a cynical eye and sometimes look at companies wondering whether they are just another soulless corporation.
Not true, but okay...
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Does this mean their games are now worth something?
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Praise the sun.
But still there's a lot more crappy games on Steam to be removed though...
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Thank you for delivering such good news. It's so awesome to start the day with something good.
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It's happened!
http://techraptor.net/content/digital-homicides-games-removed-steam
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