Does the "One man's trash is another man's treasure" quote apply on SG.
I don't get why people care as long as it's done reasonably, from what I've seen only really awful offenders that are harmful to the site by joining hundreds of giveaways in an instant are being hit with these bans. If you're just doing a small wishlist, it's really not that different from clicking, so I don't get why anyone would care.
Already have Risen boo lol
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I usually enter giveaways that were private and presented on the forum, if I ever use the autojoin(it's an extension that helps me surf the website, since I'm super super lazy) I only join max 30 giveaways a day(34 was the highest number I joined in a single day btw). And sorry, that's only I have to offer now.
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Yeah, I don't really care about that personally. Several of the people who've been banned and complaining are joining hundreds of giveaways in seconds, likely multiple times a day if not for the ban, that's a big issue for the site, especially if everyone were doing it.
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If you auto-join and thus miss description requirements/etc, any outcome deriving from that is on you.
It's not a matter of antagonism or being.. (why are you all so obsessed with aching arses, anyway?)- it's just a predictable outcome of an action you yourself decided to take. So putting blame on, and insulting the giveaway creators is the height of entitlement and ungratefulness.
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Did someone mention doing this? I didn't see him say he did that?
I don't even pay attention to that crap and I join giveaways manually. If you gotta make BS to make your giveaway complicated I don't want your crap.
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its made like that to blacklist scripts users, example: the creator says dont type a typical "thanks" in the comments. and u see a lot of people type a normal thanks or thank you and they instantly get blacklisted by a lot of people, since scripts can also post a comment u typed in every GA u enter
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I know what they use it for, I don't care for it, so I just don't do it. Never have.
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Assuming your smart enough not to overdo and avoid a ban the only possible outcome is being blacklisted as none of those requirements are valid.. Most people won't even check how many blacklists they're on and wouldn't notice an increase. Not that it'd matter as there are plenty of other giveaways to enter
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Well, one possibility is that you end up winning a region-restricted game [as is often detailed in a giveaway description] or enter for a game that's currently being affected by a [Change Giveaway Game] ticket, or so forth.
It's still a bit unclear if rerolls are provided for the first circumstance, but it seems unlikely staff'd punish you for being unable to deliver in that instance, and either way, the winner simply can't get the game in that case [or if they own it, after the second circumstance].
Likewise, ignoring descriptions is a fast way to get booted from respectable SG groups, or to get blacklisted in general.
(Or to lose points when people give warning that they're about to delete for one reason or another.)
The issue isn't one of punishments, but of consequences, and of the OP [as he has done in the past, and as many others do] insulting giveaway creators who do blacklist for such reasons, and putting blame fully on them for the outcomes of the action [that they themselves took].
Again, not a matter of punishment or antagonism, just one of action and consequence [with the unfathomable addition of completely irrational, completely misplaced, and extremely entitled blame-throwing].
And no, staff discourages automated entry, and encourages use of blacklist to filter entrants.
So the requirements are 'valid' [albeit not for reroll purposes], they're just not always going to have a favorable outcome for the giveaway creator. Which simply reinforces that the OP and his ilk are assholes, since who would try and force someone to give them something just because they can get away with doing such?
Well, some creators will prefer to take the 3 day suspension in such an instance regardless, so yeah, there's still the chance of losing out on the win even if the creator can't find justifications around the matter.
And props to those creators for having the grit to face the matter head-on.
Better to burn all bridges with the site than to continue encouraging disgustingly entitled people that they can take whatever they want without considering others in the least.
Well, as the OP said, most of us move to specialized groups and private giveaways because of such things. How their strongarming us away from using the site freely is justifiable, I can't see.. and I especially can't see how discouraging people from making public giveaways is good for the site.
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I don't care. You can never be sure if it's human or script entering for a giveaway, regardless of what restrictions you put, how deep you hide your giveaway, and how complex your puzzle will be. If human is capable of doing that, another human is capable of coding entire required logic and automate it for that particular case (or more, if they're similar).
I don't use any auto-join, even though I could in a way that goes beyond any human capabilities, because of one important rule I follow in my life.
With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility
I'm automating things that are helping me, and not providing with unfair advantage. Why should I enter giveaways, potentially cheating compared to other users, when I can automate tasks that I do daily which are NOT involving competitive advantage? Both save time, and by automating second one I'm not making anybody mad, instead, I'm making people happy.
Humans are greedy by nature. Everybody is taught to earn as much as possible, while being as lazy as possible. People are admiring workers that are doing nothing entire day and are earning 2000$ or more, while making fun of hard-working people for 500$. It's only up to one's ethics what in his opinion goes too far. I'm being too kind most of the time, even though I act as an asshole when being angry, that's why instead of doing something that earns me money I prefer to make something that make people happy.
If you're not reading description of the giveaway you're joining - you're disrespecting giveaway creator. Whether you are ignoring what comment states - you're disrespecting giveaway creator. If creator tells you to refrain from joining if you have no intentions of playing a game - and you join regardless, you're disrespecting giveaway creator.
Question should be "how much we should disrespect giveaway creators" - and that is up to everybody's ethics. I tend to refrain from commenting if I think that it's not really needed (such as creator asking me my favourite color or pet), while I always comment when I see that somebody is sad, just to cheer him up. I tend to refrain from joining giveaways if creator states that he'd prefer to give it to somebody interested in the game, while I don't do that otherwise. I tend to say thanks for my EVERY win, even though I know pretty well that I'll never play some of them.
Some of you will consider above inappropriate, other ones will consider above somehow silly regarding some things. This is ethics. If giveaway creator states that he doesn't want bots in his giveaway, by not adding proper logic to your script you're once again disrespecting him. And if you can't add such logic, for example by joining giveaways only without descriptions, you should not be using any auto-join scripts.
That's only my point of view though.
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You have the right to think the way you like and do whatever makes you feel good or better, but that doesn't mean everyone should do the same. If you're here for the community, the lols and the chills, it's your choice, not somebody elses. If another person is here for free games, why would you stop them from wanting that and persuading them to change? It's what this website offers the first place. I understand some are taking it a loot further and must be punished, can't argue with that, I just don't like the idea that people in this community like to generalize the issue to everyone who uses the magical join button. I use an autojoin script, because I joined the website to win games, but doesn't mean I'm a bad a person for wanting free stuff. You can see that I'm 3 years in this community, won 42 games and given 32 games, the Real CV of which is really higher than I won. I only press the button once a day, heck somedays I even forgot I have that button, because I'm mostly busy looking for good puzzles in the forum and viewing discussion threads.
You're mistaken about there will always be a bot that can reach you, that can't be. We're human beings, our intelligence is organic, not mechanic, that itself surpasses all the inventions and discoveries in the enitre universe. Because our intelligence is a loot more complex. You can build Skynet and it wouldn't be able to decipher what's in a human's head, because it's simply not organic. if your measurments are hight enough to make sure whomever enering is a human being making the effort for it, why the butthurt? Just live on and stop thinking about things that won't add or take anything from you, because after all, you already made the choice to give something away.
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I just don't like the idea that people in this community like to generalize the issue to everyone who uses the magical join button
You've just generalized everybody against using scripts, even though I clearly stated that I'm neutral towards that.
If another person is here for free games, why would you stop them from wanting that and persuading them to change?
I'm not stopping anybody neither persuading them to change. I say that you should respect giveaway creator rights to some degree, and if your bot doesn't read description and has no built-in parser which could find out if giveaway creator is fine with your action - you're direspecting him. If I ever was up to taking unfair advantage over other people, I'd firstly make sure that the person who is offering me the opportunity is fine with it in the first place. You're not making sure, because your script is not even bothering with it - so it's fine to state that your script is disrespecting giveaway creator rights.
You're mistaken about there will always be a bot that can reach you, that can't be.
Humans are very predictable. Even though you won't be able with 100% safety state that you can handle every possible case, you can success in at least 99% of times, which is more than enough for majority companies, including Valve and their likeness factor in VAC (which is around 93% unless they changed something since I was having fun with the system a while back).
And with more data, bot is getting smarter, at some point with intelligence bigger than average human, which is enough to state that one became 100% predictable and even his most stupid actions are kept in code's logic. That's why systems such as VAC have flaws at the beginning, but after some time they're almost flawless because with every flaw they're getting better.
ArchiBoT works the same - he had tough times when I was trying just for fun to invent solution for finding private giveaways, now he's able not to only detect links and go through them, but also solve jigidi and some easier itstoohard puzzles which involve things that any human is capable of googling. And it's not even finished - it's getting smarter with every solution being posted, and my learning code being better.
With one difference, those results are used for AI to get smarter, not to take unfair advantage. And I'm doing it as a hobby project, to learn something new, maybe use in my master thesis
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type type type , you cannot fix brains they are not programmable
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I don't need to fix brains, it's enough to create good enough neural network that will learn and become better on it's own. And that can be done in finite time, and working for eternity.
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JA, you're arguing with a kind of internet troll which is and of itself an illogical argument all on its own. Those of us that love programmers and their logical brains "grok" you but most just don't... they simply can't. So bashing yourself against their walls will only hurt your head - not theirs because no matter how much you try to explain your reasoning, they simply cannot see it. I know it's difficult to understand them but think of it this way... they simply cannot understand you either because their brains just don't work that way. To try and be clearer... a + b = c doesn't mean 1 + 2 = 3 in their language/understanding. Instead they can't figure out what happened to d. To me and you, we're wondering when the cab we called to take us home is going to show up...
Listen, I personally grok that everyone can be a valuable contributor no matter their intelligence quotient - it's all in how we all work together :-)
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I'm trying to avoid disrespecting and insulting everybody regardless of how stupid, irracional or illogical his arguments, person or actions might be. You don't need to be smart, wealthy, from 1st world country or speak English to be a decent human being. It's simply called not being an asshole - taking advantage over somebody else usually will be (but not always) an asshole move.
You know when the discussion is best? When the OP blacklisted you for your point of view, because you know pretty well that he exhausted his last move and he can't do anything else :3.
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Well I hope I join your "esteemed" ranks then :-) personally, I usually just blacklist for not having the common courtesy to say thank-you for a gift - we're all going to hell in a handbasket when we lose the ability to hold basic manners as the key to civilization... but in cases such as this, yeah pure assholery "wins" a spot on mine :-p
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Saying thanks is the least you can do to show your gratitude for the giveaway, even if it doesn't have any big value. And I totally agree that we should never lose ability to hold basic manners. I'm sad myself seeing my winners not even bothering saying thanks under the game they win, but I'm trying hard to believe that they just forgot, or want to do that after they play the game (if ever...)
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Yeah... lazy is probably more like it. I hate to go down the path of "entitled" and the third option of "gimme" starts to piss me off from giving at all... That's when I start adding peeps to my whitelist based on ratio and the inverse. Then I ask if I'm being elitist and well that's another spiral without a good ending. Then I wonder what happened to parental influence and realize that's another dead end. Sigh :-( We're talking a population that hasn't got enough life experience to understand much of anything of real value - but is that my own personal "privilege" or reality?
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You won't make the world perfect all by yourself, no human is capable of doing that. You can only try to improve it by your own limited actions, aka being asshole less, and being polite more. Sadly, it's always that one guy ruining the whole hard-working effect of 99 other people, you can only try to stay calm and keep rebuilding thing called "being kind" from the beginning.
But as long as you try, you're a good person, and I'm happy I'm not the last one in this world :3. Even if I happen to be an asshole myself from time to time.
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I totally agree with you - just try to stay focused on what I can do to make the world a bit better and also recognize and apologize when I've been a complete jerk :-) Thanks, JA for the enlightening and friendly conversation!
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what about those innocent thank givers who thank every time they enter in any GA and people blacklist them for being such a good person,nowadays people make a clear description "no thanks needed" because its more of a business.
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No, nowadays they have notifications counter and while previously (during SGv1 times) it was appreciated (and even stated in the rules that people should thank in comments IIRC), now with SGv2 and notifications it might be unwanted, as people might not want to read every single thank you from every entry, just take a look at entries count and image reading 300+ comments, or even marking them all read every 2-3 minutes.
As a rule of thumb, which I use - unless specified otherwise in giveaway description, you do not post pre-mature thanks, unless you have explicit reason for that thank you (which you should always state. If I see a good giveaway I wanted to get for a while, I). You ALWAYS post thank you if you win, I suggest to post comment first, then marking received, so you never forget and nothing will interrupt you.
It works most of the time. You can never make something that works with every case, because you're not mind-reader and you can't guess how giveaway creator feels if he doesn't state it, so it works good enough to not annoy people, not look like a bot posting same comment everywhere, and still being grateful for the win. You can't really go wrong with this method, and if somebody is blaming you for not making up his mind, you shouldn't bother with such person.
Unless giveaway creator clearly states what is his stance on comments, such as "always comment", "never comment", which should be always respected.
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I disagree. If someone wins a game from me then the least they can do is say thank you. I never expect people to say thank you just for a chance at winning something though and to be honest if every game I gave away had every person writing thank you over and over I'd probably stop giving as I don't have time for all those comments.
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I'm not stopping anybody neither persuading them to change. I say that you should respect giveaway creator rights to some degree, and if your bot doesn't read description and has no built-in parser which could find out if giveaway creator is fine with your action - you're direspecting him. If I ever was up to taking unfair advantage over other people, I'd firstly make sure that the person who is offering me the opportunity is fine with it in the first place. You're not making sure, because your script is not even bothering with it - so it's fine to state that your script is disrespecting giveaway creator rights.
Read my previous reply to you.
You've just generalized everybody against using scripts, even though I clearly stated that I'm neutral towards that.
I'm generalizing everybody, because I read a discussion thread(which you probably seen since it has over 200 comments) and nearly every comment I read is claiming that everyone who uses an autjoined must be banned(some even want it permenant).
Humans are very predictable. Even though you won't be able with 100% safety state that you can handle every possible case, you can success in at least 99% of times, which is more than enough for majority companies, including Valve and their likeness factor in VAC (which is around 93% unless they changed something since I was having fun with the system a while back).
And with more data, bot is getting smarter, at some point with intelligence bigger than average human, which is enough to state that one became 100% predictable and even his most stupid actions are kept in code's logic.
Humans are not predictable, not even a bit. As I said, you can make the most intelligent A.I humanity can ever witness, and it would never be able to take the right decisions, because they will all be based on statistics. Whilst a $0.00001 probability is likely to happen no matter how small it can get.
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Humans are not predictable, not even a bit. As I said, you can make the most intelligent A.I humanity can ever witness, and it would never be able to take the right decisions, because they will all be based on statistics.
Have you ever read about neural networks? Basing algorithm on statistics is a very bad idea and is never used in any advanced AI-like system. I can make a neural network that is able to learn from your actions, and predict them to some degree, and I don't need to know how often you do particular thing. I can even foresee actions you never did in the past, if learning set is good enough.
I kinda proved it seeing if my neural network for average DPRK citizen will properly guess that he should cry when his Great Leader dies, even though it's not being done in any other non-totalitarian society. It turned out that analysis of history and propaganda was enough to guess that properly, even though all learning data came from liberal sources
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You answered your own self sir, you said it. A bot, no matter how smart it gets, will never be dependant of its own, it will always learn from things humans do, it will never be able to take its own decisions. You simply can't compare a bot with a human, we can have low memory capacity, we can have intelligence flaws, but we can always think the way we want, a bot will never have that.
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The very main object of this website, is giving games for free. So if you actually ask for extra tasks in your giveaway description, I'm sorry, I have all the right to ignore it, because the website already claimed I'm here to claim free games. Of course this can be a bad move for the popularity of the website, that's why the private giveaways and blacklist features were implemented the first place. If you want certain people to enter your giveaway, including people who WILL do the tasks you want, make a thread with a google docs survey and see if they passed the tasks you wanted to be done, it's as simple as that. If it comes to ethics, I'm already consdering them, I'm doing my best to give back to the community as you can see, but I aslo like to take advantage of what SG claims to give me the day I joined.
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You're not entitled to the giveaways. It's giveaway creator who is offering you a game - a human being. While you're true that you can't expect anything more, because site rules clearly specify that, by joining a giveaway you're interacting with giveaway creator through a middle-man - SG service. I can't forbid anyone from being an asshole only because I want him to not be, but I can clearly state that I'm not fine with some utterly lazy people who are seeing the site as giveaway dispenser they're entitled to.
https://www.steamgifts.com/about/faq
SteamGifts may terminate your access to all or any part of the Website at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately.
Whether you're being nice or an asshole doesn't matter for me, because if I wanted to have only one group included in a giveaway, I'm capable of doing that. But what you're doing doesn't have only potential of being seen as dick move (even though I'm neutral), but is also against site rules, and that's why people were banned. That's where arguments end, because we're no longer discussing if it's fine or not, and under what terms, but if it's legal according to the service or not - and cg clearly stated that it's not with his recent actions. What you do next, is up to you, and I'm not in position to enforce one thing or another, neither I feel an urge to blacklist somebody only because I don't agree with his point of view. I'm not admin of the service, I don't give a damn about people respecting rules (or not). In the end it's my decision whether I agree with using the service, or not, and I can stop using service anytime if I think that I can't handle community, bots, auto-join scripts, or people not making enough giveaways.
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cg already said the bans issues were not because they think the use of autojoins are bad. But rather because they're harmful to the server, and they must take actions to prevent potential DDoS attack, whthere it's intended or not.
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I'm pretty sure I've seen cg answering to a support ticket with the opposite of tha somewheret.
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Well, if you find it at least we'll be able to discuss it further, I didn't see anything like that.
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I asked cg about auto-join scripts not too long ago, and his reply was that they were against the site rules, it's just that we haven't done anything about them until now.
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I couldn't find the thread I've seen the image in. But I'm pretty sure the guy who made the thread was banned for 24 hours for this reason and cg responded to his support ticket with something about too many requests causing high traffic, which also caused the server to make the ban automatically.
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That is correct, because that's what those 24 hour bans were about - a flood of traffic from a single user. Users weren't banned specifically for using auto-joiners, but the traffic they generated. That doesn't mean that the auto-joiners are allowed.
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Then, that's the where the miss-understanding is. Could you also define an auto-joiner?
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Any software capable of machine-generated giveaway entries, I believe?
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And I believe extentions are considered softwares? Because I'm using an extension that adds the join button next to a giveaway. It also has a join buton for all giveaways.
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I don't know cg's stance on allowing to join the giveaway without opening it (because that's what the "join all" button and the join button next to a giveaway are for?), but, seeing as he hasn't implemented those, I'm inclined to believe he is against the idea.
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I guess we have to wait for an official word from him?
Can you please confirm this:
You cannot ask users to perform any special action in order for their entry to be considered valid, such as liking a Facebook page, or following a Twitter account.
Does this mean reading the description itself is considered an extra requirement?
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Of course not. Nobody can get a reroll by claiming "He did not read my description."
But again, this does not mean that using special software or scripts to automate entries is allowed.
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Because several people who commented here mixed between those, which confused me a bit.
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I don't think anyone in this thread claimed that not reading the description is against the site rules. You can click the "Enter to win" button without throwing a glance at a description. That would be a shitty thing to do, but it's within the site rules.
Using a script to automatically enter giveaways is against the site rules, however, regardless of whether the script ignores the giveaway descriptions or compiles them into a mosaic and uses it as your desktop background for you to stare at.
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I'm not claiming that people here said reading description is encouraged in the rules. But rather giving that impression indirectly in their replies. For example when you keep saying you should show manners by reading the descriptions, over and over again with a bit harsh language shows like you're being forced to think that's in the rules.
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or compiles them into a mosaic and uses it as your desktop background for you to stare at.
DAMN.
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Thanks for clarifying it once more <3.
I bet konrads6 wrote a nice unsuspend ticket meanwhile ;_;
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A wall of text I read with pleasure! You deserve a beer for that Serio :P
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but if one only makes private GAs, then for most people that's equivalent to none, as most will not be able to enter as they'll never ever see it
while some people may be lazy to enter a GA to press "enter", I'm lazy to go around the forum finding private GAs which I won't enter anyways 99% of the time. I sure would prefer if the last 1% were public so I could easily find them though
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Not really, I mostly get 100+ entires by posting a private GA in the forum. And I'm pretty sure %99.99 of those entries are legit, and I'm satisfied. I'm the opposite of you, I actually dig the forum looking for private giveaways with tasks I can do.
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That why the reason private giveaways are usually longer then public ones. Just because not as many people are going to see them.
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Your stats are calculated in real time. If someone puts up a giveaway and you are the first to enter, you will have a 100% chance of winning on the day that giveaway ends until someone else enters the giveaway. If you see a 100% chance of winning on may 22, you probably entered the giveaway for "30 IMPOSSIBLE LEVELS". This is a 50,000 copy giveaway and there are less than 50,000 people entered, so you have a 100% chance of winning.
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33 out of 42 people so far voted that "One man's trash is another man's treasure" is applied to SG. This very quote means that if you have a game you don't want and consider a trash, it's a treasure for another person. Would you blame a homeless man searching in every trash can he finds for stuff he can use? I bet anyone who has a little common sense can relate the quote to the "auto joining" issue. (People who join hundreds of giveaways a second are bad, I get it. But think of people who only use them because they want free games as the website claimed it can provide and actually are lazy AND are not that crazy and deseprate to join hundreds of giveaways a second).
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For me this quotation isn't suitable at all. Sure, I give away a lot of "trash" games for me (bundle leftovers and stuff), but I also give away great games that I enjoyed and I would like others to enjoy or even games, that I have currently on wishlist. So it's not "trash". This sort of mentality (along with high level users who get their levels creating GAs only for groups) convinced me to create more private/whitelist GAs. Because when someone is not giving you "trash", but perspective of getting a nice gift, it's good to at least read what they have to say. This is also how community works and how some bonds between users are created. At this point, I really don't care about auto joining bots, because games that are "out there" for general public usually is exactly what you describe. BUT. Why is that? Perhaps exactly because of that reason. You have a right to use your auto joiners, GA creators have right to take an issue with it.
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You already have your solution to your own problem, if you're giving a game that you don't consider a trash, then don't treat it like trash. Instead of offering it to the entire community, offer to a certain group of community. It's very simple, but people tend to get butthurt, thus make it complicated the way it isn't. Your answer is the best, if the GA creator doesn't like the winner's method of joining, reroll. That should actually be granted.
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People tend to get butthurt over everything. Over creating GAs for whitelist or private SG Tools protected trains too. You will hear people who say, it's community, so GA should be available for everyone and all sort of limitations are bad. They have right to their opinion, as I have to mine and the same goes for auto joiners. Don't be butthurt over someone being "butthurt" in your opinion, because you pretty much put yourself in the same line as them :P.
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I'm not butthurt at all, I was just bored and wanted to talk about something. And this subject seemed a good one to grab people, and it did.
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But how can you separate those who join hundreds of giveaways a second from people who only use them because they want free games? That's why I think banning the auto join script is reasonable.
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We have a saying in my country: " A rotten fish, will rotten the other fish". But that can't be applied here, because we're not fish apparently, and we don't get roten. Autojoined who were banned so far, were banned by the server's decision because they were considered potential DDoSers. They processed hundreds of requests in seconds, which is considered dangerous by the server's logic.
10 out of 1000 are sick, do you kill all the 1000? Or do you quaranteen the 10? (You might say there is a problem of identities here, the server already determines that)
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I'd be upset if I know someone uses a script that joins hundreds of giveaways in a matter of a second. But I wouldn't be upset if I know that persons uses it in a proper way. You should be open to both opinions, yours and whomever uses the autojoin.
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The very main object of this website, is giving games for free.
The very object of the site is making it easier for other users to give away games for free. The site doesn't give anything away. People do.
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They way you said it(which happens to be more true honestly) only changes this a bit. The website is a middle ground, but it has to be neutral between sides.
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The fact that it's people earning those games and giving them away changes everything for me. YMMV.
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I've read your sentence over and over, can't get to your point yet. Probably because I don't understand what YMMV is.
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"Your mileage may vary."
Longer version:
- People earn money, in whatever way.
- People buy games with that money.
- People come here and make giveaways to give those games away.
- People win those games, play and perhaps enjoy them.
This site isn't about bots. It's about people. When I automate something I could easily do myself, I'm removing one half of the people from the equation. Out of respect for the giveaway creators, I won't ever do that. That's the beginning, middle, and end of my reason for not using auto-join. Again, YMMV.
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It's funny how I've been answering a lot and no one got to my point yet. Not even close. I just find it awkward how people answer themselves, unintentionally.
Some autojoiners have bots, bots that join every possible giveaway they can reach. Once won, they might either activate the won games in their own accounts, or in alt accounts for card farming. I agree, these kind of people must be banned. But consider my case, I'm here for free games, and since I'm not really a person with preferences that I can play anything, any game I win is a big wooaah for me. I also don't have all the time in the world to play everything I win(I don't win a lot). Should I be banned for wanting to play some games that I obtained from a website that claims I can get free games? That's the issue I'm putting in the table here, the community generalizes the auto joining thingy, they think anyone who does is a bad person and everyone should be banned for it. That's wrong, so wrong.
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The thing is that if somebody bought a videogame to giveaway to a random stranger out of his big heart (or whatever other reason), that random stranger should at least have the common sense to read the giveaway's description. I don't really like how it's assumed on SG that if you want the winner to be a decent human being, public giveaways are out of question.
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That's it my friend. This isn't a website to teach us ethics and moralities. If you're butthurt about people who don't "thank you" for your generosity, you should then make sure you give to people who would that, just to feed your own ego.
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I've really liked your first comments, the way you actually expalined things. You even made me think of some things I had in mind. Now all that is gone, because you're right now trying to be a dick. Congratulations.
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You keep using the word "butthurt" to refer to anyone who doesn't agree with you. You did it in the OP as well. That speaks volumes.
Undac was being polite and respectful while disagreeing. If you want people to take you seriously and respect your opinion, you'll probably need to do the same.
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Exactly that. But at the same time you say you're not "butthurt" yourself. What makes the other people who create topic against something "butthurt" and not just "bored" as you are? Maybe they just want to discuss something they consider an issue.
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What? O.o
I was merely suggesting an alternative for the OP to being aggressive to make his point is all. Immediately calling everyone who disagrees "butthurt" is going to cause people to reply in the same manner and probably won't accomplish his goal.
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That's an issue I have a long time, people can't understand what I'm actually saying. If I say "If you're butthurt....", the you doesn't neceserally refer to whom I'm talking to, but rather refer to whomever actually did get butthurt of such matter. And it's funny that out of several words, you focused on a single one. I'm not being disrespectful towards anyone, I've been answering everyone here, as you can see, because I respect their opinions and I wantt hem to hear what I have to say. You should also know that being disrespectful doesn't mean the use of harsh words only, there is the hidden content as well, which actually occured several times here, in case you read what other people said.
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Society rule #1 - your words might hurt people even though you're pretty sure they're not offending anybody.
I was offended, same as many users replying here to you. Don't expect polite replies if you can't reply politely either. I'm not the one who takes sh*t on the face and ask for more. The discussion level is as high as you make it to.
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I did not ask you to view the thread, I did not ask you to integrate, if you got offended, that's on you, not me, because obviously I had no intentions to offend anyone.
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You realise that you're the one who started a thread in which you complain about something apparently not allowed on this website? Which kind of means that you're the "butthurt" one here. (that's an ugly word)
I did not say that I blacklist people who don't comment on giveaways, or that I can't sleep well because of them, I only said that from my point of view one should have the common sense to read the description of the giveaway he enters (which is not possible when using autojoin scripts).
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(The word butthurt for me, isn't an ugly word. Because apparently I'm not a native speaker).
You guys have the answer, and you're already working with it. Make private giveaways to people who won't make you upset. That way both sides can be satisfied.
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This isn't a website to teach us ethics and moralities.
You're right.
You should have those learned to begin with.
Pity.
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you know this will possibly end up with lots of blacklists for people that don't comment on giveaways. i might start doing it, like asking a random question in descriptions, then anyone who ignored it goes to my blacklist for being useless.
pity we only have 1.000 slots, i would need like 100.000 if i decide to do it.
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i don't really know if i always read the descriptions of GAs.
sometimes i just rush through stuff to reply to a comment or do something else.
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Does the "One man's trash is another man's treasure" quote apply on SG.
Yes
247(77%)
So this means not everyone is a butthurt like you to blacklist people for their ratio.
it took me to get blessed with some blacklists to prove it.
and my dear you need to clear your way of thinking you ONLY read what you want to read blindly.
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why are you out for trouble?
i'm not butthurt about anything. i blacklist leechers so they don't win my GAs.
as far as i have seen from your group recruitment thread you don't want them either.
you also don't do any public GAs that's like blacklisting everyone who isnt in your group.
"and my dear you need to clear your way of thinking you ONLY read what you want to read blindly."
no i don't. but it is exactly what you do .
i could say, you should think about what you write, because you clearly don't.
you attacked me out of the blue in the other thread because i posted that i blacklisted konrad for his win/sent ratio.
and now you attack me again.
you are the first person whom i blacklist for just being an absolute idiot who doesnt understand simplest concepts(at least that's the conclusion i came to through your poorly written comments)
please don't ever reply to one of my comments again except its something that has actual meaning and isnt just an sloppy attack on my opinions.
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as far as i have seen from your group recruitment thread you don't want them either.
please be more specificyou also don't do any public GAs that's like blacklisting everyone who isnt in your group
its my matter how do i want to GA gamesyou attacked me out of the blue in the other thread because i posted that i blacklisted konrad for his win/sent ratio.
i never blacklists people for this reason not even if they are rudeand now you attack me again.
you are the one cannot understand anything and saying "attacking" you are just being a community typer be more humanplease don't ever reply to one of my comments again except its something that has actual meaning and isnt just an sloppy attack on my opinions.
my pleasure i don't want to waste my time with retards
+i 90 blacklists who blacklists me GL.
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silly kid you need to learn more and stop attacking, yet still you didnt read
as far as i have seen from your group recruitment thread you don't want them either.
you also don't do any public GAs that's like blacklisting everyone who isnt in your group.
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Right, but in fact I do the opposite: I whitelist the people who read the description and did not break the rules. :P
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I've seen this done by others. It was startling to see the number of entrants who did not pay attention even when it was clearly written what the consequences would be.
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There are plenty of threads about this subject. No real need for new ones except to stroke one's ego.
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The more you talk about a problem, the better your approaching to a solution.
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The solution was already implemented in the form of 24 hour bans.
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What else was thread trying to solve? World peace? Blacklists? Bullshit? A million threads of the same subject will not offer a solution to those. Anyways, good luck with your bandwagon.
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I am fine with auto join scripts as long as the person actually plays the game they win, not just some russian bots hoarding games that will never be touched by anything other than Idle Master.
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You're one of a few my friend, you should see other threads about this issue. People are just hating and hating. I managed to win few games because of autojoin, and I did play few of them actually, but that doesn't mean I can play all of them.
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But what about the people who entered the GA because they genuinely wanted to play that game, to have it won by someone using an auto-join who will never play it? :(
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Something Weird?
Potato?
On the sidenote autojoin bans are good against bots.
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You're the first to ever pay attention to the description, I like you.
Not everyone who uses autojoin means he's using an automated bot. I have an extension that allows me to enter giveaways without having to actually load the entire page, and it's not done automatically, ever. I'm always the one who does it.
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Well... espero que algo de español sea lo suficientemente weird for you... XD
I kinda agreed with you, autojoins are not a real topic for a conversation. I dont feel harm in anyway by them XD
Paz!!
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you will get blacklisted a lot for this thread.
using a script to join GAs is fine for me as long as its not a bot.(i dont use autojoin, just fyi)
but you don't seem to understand how people who love this site see it as a place to share and not something to get as many GAs as possible.
i never ever had a predicted win percentage of 27% or higher. mostly around 10% .
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I don't care about blacklists honestly, I already predicted I'd be blacklisted by many people(11 so far). But meh, I don't know who they are and they already made their choice. I'm entering as much GAs as I can, I've won total of $450.. I've given away a total of $460(not Real CV). People should reconsider their way of thinking and actually expand their cardinal.
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you will get blacklisted a lot for this thread
this guy only cares about getting blacklists he don't care if something is wrong or true,
because everybody loves power everyone wants power.
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congrats, you guys using autojoin and enter buttons are surely making steamgifts a better place for everyone else! \o/
maybe we should also get rid of descriptions and the forum and just have giveaways? isn't what this place is about, winning and leeching?
just don't cry when everyone either leaves or moves onto whitelist/group giveaways, and the public/invite ones are filled with $0.01 bundle games that aren't even worth idling for cards.
good job, i say!
also, funny that you mention butthurt people. the ones i saw getting upset are people using autojoin, which also instantly started posting to defend themselves like their behavior is harmless to the community. on the other hand, the rest of the users here are happy to see that cg is doing something to stop them.
so, butthurt autojoiners, don't try to project your anger on others. the only ones BUTTHURT, are you. :3
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Again, this isn't a website to teach us ethics. If you want people who enter your giveaway to read your description, make sure you actually make the giveaway availalbe to people who would do that and live happily ever after without whining why did my public GA's description was ignored. You guys are forcing people to do what you want, while the solutions are too many and in front of you, and none of them involve hating on other people. Believe it or not, I'm not butthurt, I just like to see people talking with a little sense, and honestly a lot of people who commented here did have sense and made me question what I believe in this matter, unlike you of course, trying to approach this in a "girly" way rather than actually explain why you have such opinion.
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You guys are forcing people to do what you want
Sure, because we're getting those games for free, so we should have no choice who we want to give it to, and instead accept the fact that everybody is an asshole and everybody who is not being an asshole is pathetic loser.
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You decided to give the game away the first place yourself, it's your problem if you the winner isn't as expected him to be, and you can't really blame him.
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I decided to give the game to somebody who obeys the site rules. Your script is against site rules, regardless if you accept that fact or not. Same as I'm eligible for asking a reroll of rule-breaker who wasn't punished yet, it's my right to not give you a game if you took unfair advantage over other users, if I (or anybody else, such as service or staff) can prove that you joined that giveaway through a script.
And everybody will tell you that here.
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Then why are you so mad about this? You're obviously not a part of the supprt, not even a site developer, if I'm deserving a ban and the support has a legitimate reason to issue the ban, then let it be. I'll take it as a man because obviously for them I deserved it.
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I'm not mad, I'm participating in the discussion that you started. But because you see everybody not agreeing with your point of view as "mad", "butthurt" and "can't understand", you can't even accept the fact that you're the one who is wrong here, because you blindly believe that what you're doing is proper.
Lie repeated 100 times is not becoming a truth. I don't want you to see banned, I have no reason to. Same as I don't give a damn whether you use auto-join or not.
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i expect normal human beings to already behave properly on sg, without me telling them how to act on sg. but of course, common sense and etiquette are a rarity these days when greed and selfishness are the #1 factors when it comes to get free stuff.
and no, i'm not forcing people more than they force me to deal with their rude behavior. if users can't spend 30 seconds to enter a ga, read a description and reply, then they should work 8-14 hours per day and pay for their own games.
i'm not giving away free keys i grab from developers or stuff bought with stolen credit cards, we all work for our giveaways, and having selfish peasants enter anything with minimal effort just takes all the fun away from it.
"girly" way, lol. nice way to dismiss anything i said. keep up the condescension and sexism, it makes you look as grown-up as calling others butthurt.
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Are you trying to say the keys I obtained from stealing credit cards aren't as good as yours? >.> I find that insulting.
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Look, I keep telling you. You bribe me with a pony, and you can do whatever you want with the rest of the money, with my approval. But if you're going to steal credit cards and not get me a pony, I don't see why I should approve of it. :|
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It's always a pony with you. Where are you even going to put it? I just don't see it ending well is all.
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- 1. Ponies are awesome, and room will magically be made for them once they arrive.
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- 2. There's always room for more pony!
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If you keep expecting, you'll get dissapointed. And it's non sense to expect something from people in SG, actually not particulary SG, but the Internet in general. However, since we're in this community, I shall keep my words bound to the community.
Since a lot of people who commented tried to bring up ethics and moralities, I should do the same. If you made a public giveaway that received over 1k entires, would you really, realllllyy expect someone to be that polite to actually fullfill your wishes in the description? Nonetheless most of the people in SG are here for free games and don't actually care about descriptions. Of course, since the website is just a middle ground, it already granted you a feature to prevent you from getting upset, you can make a private giveaway to certain people who you definitely know can fullfill whatever tasks you want them to do. That's how you actually solve this problem, I'm butthurt, you're butthurt, everyone is butthurt and nobody gives a damn but the one who got butthurt, so why don't you prevent yourself from getting butthurt by doing something that won't get you butthurt? Which is not making too expectations. I apolgoy for using too much butthurt in this thread, but that's who I am, not a douchebag or just a guy who likes to insult and swear, but rather a person who's flexbile about a lot of things, especially the word butthurt. You see I don't see anything bad about the word butthurt, it's just a word that expresses being upset, sad or irritated. I know it's a bit exagirating, that's why I like to use it, because it expresses the maximum sadness, and nothing related to "butthurt" . It's more like a domestic word for irritated. And the reason I said your comment was "girly", because it only showed your opinion about me, not the subject I'm trying to discuss. And no, saying girly doesn't mean I'm sexim, if you were a male, I'd replace it with childish, same meaning but the words fit with their gender corresponding.
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its not about ethics or morality.( i would not dare to use those words for such trivialities)
its about not being a total ass.(or is it an total ass? i know its an ass.)
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She's been an ass first. I guess an eye for an eye works here.
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but she has seniority as a valued community member of SG over you.
she also has an actual reason to fly off the handle because of your op and comments.
as i said before, many people here see this as an community to share.
not too win as many games as possible without playing them.
you are just on a completely different side of this community.
and therefore you don't have much right to bitch and moan about stuff.(like breaking site rules and then arguing about why you think its your god given right to do so because people just do GAs to get rid of their trash games.)
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Do you see me not being a part of the community? I've done giveaways myself. Or maybe you think being a member in the community isn't about giving but rather about integrating. If so, why do you say she is more valued in the community than me? Is it because she integrates more? Or is it because she gives more? She can be employed? I'm not employed, and I only have $100 a month from my parents..; how can I then be more valued member? Maybe I should become a woman.
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oh boy.
your last sentence will get you into trouble again.
she is more valued because she actually adds value with GAs but also positive interaction.
and its not about money(why do people think its always about money?)
why do you try to win alot of shity games you dont actually play.
you could have a win/sent ratio of 10/40 and people will know that you add more value than you subtract.
but you choose to break even for games you don't play.
and therefore took away the chances of somebody else who might have had fun with these games.
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You don't have to become a woman--just become an adult.
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you have $100 from your parents, i have less than $50 from my own pocket after spending on basic stuff to live.
She's been an ass first. I guess an eye for an eye works here.
Maybe I should become a woman.
you are doing a perfect job to replace konrad!
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I live 600km away from my parents' home. The $100 a month covers my rent(My rent is $35), and the rest is supposed to cover my nutrition but I try to make it cover other things, let's suppose I spend $10 a week in food, that's roughly $40 a month, I also need connection, which is $10 a month for 12gb. 35+40+10 is 85.. therefore I am left with $15 that I can spend the way I want.
I'm just stating my opinion, I'm not intending to replace whomever konrad is, probably a troll... that's something I'm not doing here.
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Eeer Rockyy? Being a woman has nothing to do, you know. Money has nothing to do. You can be a valued member without having done a giveaway.
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total ass.(or is it an total ass? i know its an ass.)
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nice,but this doesnt answer my question.
is it a total ass or an total ass?
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"a total ass"
The article changes based on the word that immediately follows it, whether it's a name, an adjective, ...
It's not tied to names, a/an have the same meaning and it's just used because it's easier to pronounce if there's a consonant between the 2 vowels
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e.g., a TempeteJoachim did give an adequate explanation of the matter. :3
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Oh, are you actually asking about the grammar?
"an" is used only if the following word starts with a vowel when vocalized out.
For example "an elephant" (because of the e) but also "an S" because the letter is vocalized (ess), thus starting it with a vowel.
T is a consonant, so it'd be "a total ass" ( or "an ass, totally." ) :P
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thx ,wasn't sure if it only applied to a noun.(dyslexia is a bitch)
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Nah, as TJ mentioned above, it's related to improving sentence flow, since consecutive vowel sounds create stuttering. [Hence why it's tied to the sounds, not the spelling.]
Visual perception issues are indeed a bitch. :X
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its not really a perception issue its more like a different way of thinking.(which has an influence on perception)
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Girly does not have the same meaning as childish. Unless your goal is to offend people you should use childish to refer to both genders. :)
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How come you miss al the words I said, and focus on a certain one that really has no meaning? I'm not being sexim, you can just stop claiming anyone who called a girl girly is being sexim because that's not what happens most of the time.
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I don't know what you want me to discuss with you? You already made it clear in this thread your opinion that this site is just for free stuff and your solution is we should all make private giveaways. Your response to people who disagree is that this site doesn't need manners so there's no point to me disagreeing.
And yes dismissing a woman's words because they were "girly" is 100% being sexist. I get the language barrier and that you didn't mean it like that but it is rude. It's something you should be aware of.
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If calling a donkey a donkey is rude, then I guess calling a girl a girl is also rude.
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If you don't see the reference in what I said, then you can't understand it. I don't consider calling a girly girly rude because calling a donkey, a donkey isn't rude. It's saying your own nature. For example we say human are naive, but we also say humans are intelligent. Now if I tell you you're a human, would you get offended?
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I don't really want to argue over this. I just wanted to make you aware of how people will take what you said in English negatively and that it's fine to use childish to refer to males and females in English.
You never called her a girl. You called her approach girly and later explained you meant it as childish. That's fine but the word girly does not mean childish and people will call you sexist because of it regardless of what you meant by it.
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Some people don't think things all the way through, Mully.
They see that instant gratification and forget about everyone around them,
Let me add +1 to Archi's 9001 for a 9002.
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Then why don't we stop talking about it all the time?
My apologize if it sounds rude, but I have no other way to put it - I personally think that there are too many discussions regarding these kind of things. First it was about blacklists, then this auto-script drama. Nothing "promotes" a topic more than talking about said topic.
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You're not being rude if I don't see your face expression. I'm certainly bringing the autojoin matter, but in a different way that most of the people here missed. I do autojoin, but I don't use a bot to do it, I do it all by myself. That's the difference I want people to understand.
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No, you're trying to prove that you're better because you're not doing A + B + C but A + B only, while user should be doing A alone.
You're not.
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Why should I add the C when the website already does that. I can only add things that don't exist.
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Such as not using wallhack + aimbot in CS:GO, but wallhack only? And your primary argument is "it's not a cheat, it doesn't auto aim for me, and I must manually click here for it to work!"
Yeah. If that feature was built-in, there would be no discussion.
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C for me is something called unfair advantage, exactly the same as B. You're pretty much defending yourself with argument "I'm not the worst, look, I did D and E, and there are people doing C which I don't!"
It's like stealing from wealthy elder couple while trying to prove that you needed that money more than they did (even if it's true). Proving that you're not the worst because there are murderers and robbers everywhere, and there is no harm done if you do that.
I'll ask the other way. If innocent grandma will suddenly offer you 1000$ only because she thinks you're her lost child, will you accept it? Or claim that you're not her lost child? If a guy on the street drops his wallet, will you take it, or bring it back?
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If she ever says the claim, I wouldn't accept it, at least not before I respond with not being her child.
For me, C means the relation between the person who gives the game, and the person who wins the game. It's a 1.n to 1.1 relation with the person who gives the game is 1.n. which means the winner defines the one who gives the game, in terms of conception and analysis of databases. I bet you'll understand my point now ;)
P.S: If you're saying auto joining is bad for people who make descriptions, aren't additional requirements forbidden in the FAQ?
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They are, and I never stated in any above comment that giveaway creator is entitled to put whatever rules he wants. I only stated that giveaway creator can expect winner to pass defined rules, such as region or contributor level, and obey the site rules, because everybody had to accept them prior to using the service.
Using auto-joining script is against the rules, even SleepyCat confirmed that for you above, so I have full right to expect that my winner didn't use it for joining my giveaway, same as I expect my giveaway winner to pass contributor level and region at the time of winning. And to anwer you future question - yes, if somebody had L6 and joined my L6 giveaway, but then dropped back to L5, I have a right to reroll, and support grants it. Same as I have a right to reroll if you own any part of the game bundle I'm giving away, even if it's 1% of the pack. But for obvious reasons, I won't issue a reroll in any of last two cases, because I'm not an asshole. Same as you shouldn't take advantage over users who do not use auto-join scripts, even if they were allowed (they're not).
But that's a matter of ethics, and that's up to everybody's choice. What is mandatory is site rules, and site rules are against that, so it's not a matter of ethics anymore.
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The miss-understanding we had here, is whether the autojoiners were allowed or not, apparently as the support they weren't allowed since quite a long time, but there were no official announcements about that. You can't expect anyone to know that out of thin air. And excuse me, if they were allowed, you have no right to tell me if I should use them or not, it's just not up to you.
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You don't need official announcements for that. You have site ToS which specifies that, and if you're unsure if something is allowed or not, you should ask, and not assume that you know better. I did ask cg personally when I was about to integrate ArchiBoT with SG, and he allowed me to do that, even though many people would say it's not allowed according to ToS.
And I repeat for once again because you apparently missed my last 4 messages regarding that - I don't care if you're using a script or not. It's up to you. I care if you obey site rules though, and I have a right to deny you win if you don't.
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There is no sing of the "Don't use autojoiners" in the guidelines. For a website as big as SG, things must be official, not just words.
Now please answer this honestly, without trying to be the better guy or the guy who knows more. The guidelines say the creator of the GA cannot ask for extra requirements for the entry to become valid, isn't that include reading the description itself?
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I repeat once again (it's 5th time now):
I never stated in any above comment that giveaway creator is entitled to put whatever rules he wants. I only stated that giveaway creator can expect winner to pass defined rules, such as region or contributor level, and obey the site rules, because everybody had to accept them prior to using the service.
Did I mention "reading description" there?
Without limiting any of those representations or warranties, SteamGifts has the right (though not the obligation) to, in SteamGifts' sole discretion (i) refuse or remove any content that, in SteamGifts' reasonable opinion, violates any SteamGifts policy or is in any way harmful or objectionable.
Using script can be harmful and objectionable, and you can't claim that it's allowed only because ToS doesn't clearly state that it's not. Not to mention that:
the Content is not spam, is not machine or randomly-generated
It's really not my fault that we see ToS in two different ways. Again, if you had doubts, you could just ask, even through support ticket in other category. Not reading the rules OR not understanding them doesn't make up for breaking them. If something is not clear, ask first, then make an action, not believe that you know better and everything is allowed. Use common sense - if what you're doing can be considered an asshole move, then probably it is not allowed, right? If so, why not ask first? You can't get punished for asking.
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You didn't mention reading descriptions, but you just kept focusing on the show decensy and thank the creator part.
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Not being an asshole and following site rules are two things you keep confusing.
I can't force you to not being an asshole.
I CAN force you to obey the rules, if you want to join my giveaways.
Not reading description is not against the rules.
Joining through a script is.
If you're an asshole, the most I can do is blacklist you.
If you're a rule-breaker, I can get a reroll approved, and you suspended.
Acting like an asshole is defined by everybody's ethics and morality.
Acting against the rules is defined by site ToS, with interpretation according to site owner, and not your one.
Extra pro tip, actions considered by majority as asshole moves are usually against site rules as well
Let me know if you need further explanation.
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Then if I'm being an asshole, you can just blacklist me and move on with your life? Instead of cracking your head me, because as you can see, I'm a stuburn, and no one can actually prove me wrong while being rude. As I said, you were actually convencing me the first time you replied, then I guess your anger got over you and started being rude.
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Nah, you don't deserve to be rejected only because we have different opinion. You also don't have to be rejected only because you decided to blacklist me. That's a difference between somebody kind enough to try explain to you why you're wrong, even if he fails to do so, and between somebody who takes first one's response as "attack" or "rude" even though nothing was meant to be rude neither impolite, and in worst case was just addressing some issues with more direct words, because asshole has stronger meaning than "rudeness" or "disrespect".
I already had a guy blacklisting me for something as stupid as believing that I reported him and suspended on SG, so your blacklist doesn't even come close to that. I don't need anything from you, and it's not my bussiness to tell you how to use this site - it's up to you, and my ethics are not yours, same as yours are not mine. Why I should move on if I still believe that you understood your mistake, and you're now just too shy to state it? Nobody clearly states on the internet that he did a mistake, a warrior can fight for the lost cause till he's dead, but he won't admit a defeat, even if it's 100 vs 1.
Do your thing, analyze the facts, decide for yourself whether what you're doing is proper or not, and if you want to suddenly wake up with a suspension only because you interpreted rules different than everybody else. I'm just a friendly folk who want to save you from all of that, because it's not a nice feeling, and you don't have to go through this. I've seen much worse people, I have no reason to see you on the same level as them.
I'm not salty about anything, if you have an urge to blacklist me for some reason or another, it's your choice, same as it's your choice to use a script or not. I believe that eventually you'll understand your mistake, and notice why majority of people are against such scripts, even if you can't understand it right now.
And if you don't want to keep conversation anymore, you can simply stop replying.
Have a good day :3.
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I've blacklisted you long ago for the records. And I find it funny that you actually wanted to see if I have you blacklisted. I have nothing to admit here, I already said what I have to say, i you can see the "(I admit)" in my original post that was there for 3 hours or more, yet you just ignored it over and over. I wanted to know something, you answerd it, and along your answere, you started becoming rude, I have the right to fight back, that's what a warrior does as you said.
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tl;dr at the bottom.
The reason people don't like autojoins is because most people fit into one of two buckets--people for whom SG is a community, and people for whom SG is just a place to leech free games.
The former group of people are much more likely to engage in discrimination regarding which giveaways they join as well as heed a request by the giver in the description. An autojoin script necessarily appeals to those who just want a free game--any game--and people who don't care what the giver may have to say in their description.
In order to be part of a community one must engage in effort and consideration of others. You cannot have zero-effort participation. But you know what gets as close as possible to zero-effort participation? A script that allows you to enter a bunch of giveaways without even bothering to see if the giver wants you to just look at a GIF, visit a link, know why they like the game, why they are giving it away, or whatever.
Granted, a person can participate here and use an autojoin, but the reality is that autojoin predominantly appeals to those low-effort participants who just want a free game.
Quite often nowadays part of a criticism of a particular individual or group is that they feel entitled to something. Someone is giving something away. All that is required of you is that you put in the effort to individually and manually enter that giveaway and maybe even give a shit about what the giver may ask in the description. And if you don't like what the description says, then you don't enter. It's simple.
The idea that everyone has to accept that you want to use some script kiddie's end-around and put in near-zero effort because you feel entitled to participate in the giveaway process in any way you wish is knuckleheaded nonsense.
tl;dr People don't like autojoins because that's not the way the site or the givers want you to enter giveaways. All you have to do for a shot at a free game is engage in the very reasonable request that you individually and manually enter each giveaway and maybe even read the description. Anyone whining that they can't use a script needs to get their head out of their ass because this site is not about what you deserve or have earned; it's about what you may receive if you just follow a few easy rules.
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Someone is giving something away. All that is required of you is that you put in the effort to individually enter that giveaway and maybe even give a shit about what the giver may ask in the description. And if you don't like what the description says, then you don't enter. It's simple.
The fact that some people don't understand this or pretend not to, is mind-boggling to me. You are getting something for free, how hard can it be to actually read and maybe reply to what the giver is asking/saying? The people giving the games away, don't get those games for free, they spend their money on something for others to enjoy, doesn't matter if it's a 0,50 cents game or 60 euros game. How entitled does one person have to be that they can't even be bothered to enter the giveaways manually, let alone lose some minutes of their day to read the descriptions? Steam Gifts is just a website, the games come from the users, be respectful by taking some of your time to read the description and maybe just maybe be grateful, after all you are getting something for free that people don't have to give away to begin with.
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It's not a difficult thing to grasp unless a person is blinded by their entitlement.
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Again, SG is just a website, non of us is here to learn about ethics.
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SG is a website but the games don't come from SG, they come from the users. Steam Gifts only acts as middleman, that the givers expect the other users and winners to have some manners isn't unreasonable. The fact that you can't seem to understand this just goes a long way to show your sense of entitlement.
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I do realise SG is just a middle ground, but it also has its rules that both sides must follow. One of which says the creator of the GA can't add extra requirements in his description, and this I believe include reading the description itself to become eligible to win the giveaway.
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You asked why people don't like autojoin, I just answered that. People don't like it because they are giving you something they had to pay for, yet you are taking it for granted by using scripts and autojoins to enter the giveaways. If someone gives you a gift in your birthday or holidays, do you thank them or just take the gift and walk away? Why should it be any different here? The givers aren't requiring for you to read the description but they expect you to do so as a sign of courtesy and manners.
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Why do you keep going back to the ethics? Do you even know what that word means? Ethics and manners ain't the same. Either way, you asked why people don't like autojoins, that's the answer regardless of you liking it or not.
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Ethics aren't manners, but one exists in the other. And I keep repeating it as a general word, because everyone here is saying show some decensy, heck some even claimed if I don't I should be rerolled. You can't tell anyone, and I mean anyone what they should do. I bet you agree with this.
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You keep going around and around. Again, the givers aren't telling you what to do, but since we humans are a social animal and live in a society, at times certain manners and courtesies are to be expected. Reading the description of the giveaway and maybe reply is one of those times. You still didn't answer, if someone gives you a gift, do you listen and thank the person or just take it and walk away? If you thank them by not doing the same here then you are a hypocrite.
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If someone gives me a gift, I'd listen and thank them, yes. But this isn't the same case, listening isn't reading and reality isn't virtuality. You guys keep saying manners and courtessie to be expected, what if I'm a douchebag and I don't want to thank the creator of the GA, or I don't want to read his description? Does that mean he can reroll me if I ever won? That's what certain people were trying to say in the comments here, you should actually read everything before you judge what I say.
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Why isn't it the same? If you are a douchebag and don't want to thank the gifter then don't, he can't reroll over that but you can't expect people to like it or to not blacklist you. As for the actual reading, you the one that doesn't read, you asked why people don't like autojoins, people have answered again and again but because you don't like the answers they give you, you just ignore or keep giving the same answers.
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In reality you can get shy talking to a person, but you wouldn't be shy talking to a person in virtual reality, would you? That's the difference here. I've been answering people out of respect, because I wouldn't want someone to write a long paragraph without me responding, isn't that rude now? Regradess of the fact, I've been seeking better answers, everyone was answering with what they think, not wha the site says. The only person who actually did it and got a bit rude was JustArchi.
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I think what you meant to say is that in reality you need to have some manners and not be a douchebag because you might get punched in the face. Here, you can be as douche and as much a keyboard warrior as you want because nothing happens...Either way SleepyCat who is a Mod and talks with cg just gave you the definitive answer:
Using a script to automatically enter giveaways is against the site rules, however, regardless of whether the script ignores the giveaway descriptions or compiles them into a mosaic and uses it as your desktop background for you to stare at.
It's against the website rules and that's all there is to it, no more discussion needed.
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This is not a website to teach ethics.
You can't tell anyone, and I mean anyone what they should do. I bet you agree with this.
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I feel confident in saying that you are an obtuse and entitled knucklehead and whatever ill will I engender because of my willingness to be harsh in my criticism it certainly pales in comparison to the enmity the magnificent tone deafness your OP and replies herein have facilitated.
You asked a why people feel the way they do and have received answers yet feel the need to try to dismiss and undermine those who respond to you. You are in the minority on this issue and nothing you say is going to change minds in part because you seem unable to grasp the basics of why people do not like autojoiners. In addition, you are in the minority even amongst those who use autojoiners as most of them are tactful enough or smart enough to realize that there is no benefit to initiating the discussion that you have, especially since you lend little credence to anyone's opinion on the matter other than your own.
Of course, if I wanted to ensure that no one disliked me I could refrain from participating in threads such as these but the thing is I consider this is a community, and part of that is attempting, futile as it may be, to lead the horse from the plain and back onto the farm.
Just neighing.
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I also consider this a community. That's why I brought up this subject with full intentions of honesty, eventhough I knew what the consequences would be, probably because I also don't care about what the consequences can be. If you're having a different opinion in your family, does it mean they should hate you? Or you hate them? And even if you do, does it mean they're no longer your family?
You can call me whatever you want, because whatever you say, reflects you, not me.
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You did not create this thread to foster discussion. You initially described people who are against autojoiners as "butthurt", then talked about what they could do (create private giveaways) instead of what entrants should do (enter manually and read the description). You have felt the need to respond in the comments negating all the opinions that disagree with your own with insipid dismissals like "this isn't a website to teach ethics" that you fancy pithy witticisms.
What I say certainly does reflect on you. You are entitled and obtuse. You prove it with every post.
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I made a discussion thread not to foster discussion. Sounds very illogical to me. I beleive you're the one being obtuse here, because you're not really seeing this from every angle, just the one your eye sees. Maybe if you understand what was this all about and what I was trying to say from the very beginning, you might actually reconsider all of your words.
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When you make a discussion and solicit the opinion of others but then deny the validity of their opinions, especially through dismissals, yes, it means you didn't create this thread with the intention to foster discussion, or as you put it, "with full intentions of honesty."
I understood what you asked. You asked why people disliked autojoiners. You said some other stuff, but my post addressed why people dislike autojoiners. I made a bunch of statements in support of people's dislike of autojoiners and in response did you address my points? No. You threw out an anecdote about your own behavior--irrelevant to my post--and then you tried to be dismissive, saying this is not a website to teach ethics.
If you want to persuade people that you are right you need to counter their argument with a logical argument of your own. You haven't being doing that with me. After all this time I can only conclude that you are unwilling or unable to do so. I have chose to think you unable which is why I have characterized you herein as obtuse.
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Or maybe you don't want to understand what I'm saying? That could also be a possibility? Right? Whether you're intending not to understand, or doing it unporposly.
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The failure to comprehend is not what I or any of the myriad of others who have responded to you are lacking. it is your own failure to comprehend in kind that is the obstacle here.
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But did you consider the possibility? Because I've considered all the possibilities I have.
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I already knew why people like to use autojoiners. That's why I haven't created a thread asking people why they used them.
You created the thread where you asked why people didn't like autojoiners--not me. I didn't need that perspective explained to me--you did.
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It's because I was rude and you're rude and he would totally agree with us except we were rude.
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True, you should have learned that BEFORE you started using the site. That's just common human decency.
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Where in the rules did it say he needed that, huh?
Point out the exact line, and the exact time and place it was added!
( But really.. )
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%80 of the giveaways I joined in the past few months were private, meaning I did make an effort to join them and I did do what the creators wanted from me.
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Yet you asked about why people don't like autojoining. I answered that.
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Very well said and more or less what I was implying with my initial reply to the OP.
IMHO people should be the most important thing on this site, not free games. :)
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Most people come here for the free games initially. But that's not what makes this site so good for those of us that like it.
Similarly, when people first meet a potential mate, usually physical attraction dominates. But physical attraction isn't what makes a relationship thrive or sustain over the long run.
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That pretty much nailed it for me. The allure of free games brought me here, and the community keeps me here.
I love you guys. ;_;
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more likely to engage in discrimination
May wanna change that to "more likely to be discriminating", since "discrimination" is almost always synonymous with "discriminating against".
That is to say, "a(n unfair) judgement based on perception rather than merit" versus "a carefully considered judgement".
It sorta confuses what your thoughts on the matter are, imo.
That aside-
needs to get their head out of their ass
v
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I expect people to be as smart as you my dear friend Sooth and discriminate between discrimination... and discrimination.
:p
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Are you making a discrimination about me? =O That's.. discriminatory! :|
People like you are fond of vulgarity!
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I am supremely disappointed by the lack of vulgarity underneath the spoiler.
I thought you were gonna bring the sass but instead you brought the sassafras.
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No, just people complaining that they got suspended for breaking the TOS and that they should be allowed to break the rules as they see fit.
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Remember, social interaction is about give and take.
...we should give, so they can take.
How do we not get this? :/
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I hatting members who using autojoin scrypt. and thirdly what you say isn't true :D I get one time 100% chance, but I not winning anything :D good luck for you,
good luck for all potatoes :)
and last good luck for me :D
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regardless of what i think of autojoin features.
- they are against the sites rules. so...
- you CANNOT!!! state unique actions the winner has to do for a reroll. if i would have won it and not posted anything it's your problem not mine. support won't ever approve such a reroll. it say so on the FAQ.
have a good day
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First of all, I wonder why people are so butthurt about people who use autojoin scripts while they have all the means to stop that from happening, I mean, you could just make private giveaways the whole time and you're fine, gooosh. Second of all, I do use an autojoin script(I admit), but only when I feel like I need a button to smash, and when I actually have 300p(which is rare since I joined forum gibs lasting for weeks and weeks the whole time). Third of all, SG says my win percentage is at %100 tomorrow and it was already %100 today and I already won twice, is that legit. Fourth of all, a lousy gib(s)
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