Opinions
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"Note: Valve has confirmed to me that publishers/developers get to decide the amount of revenue they take from mods if they choose to let players sell them. Valve, meanwhile, takes “the same share of sales as any other microtransaction sale.” - Kotaku.com
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That is an interesting twist, considering the fee on TF2 items is only about 5% Steam transaction fee and 10% TF2 fee. Potentially, that would mean that its Bethesda, not Valve, demanding a 70% cut of the modder's revenue.
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Or it could mean that in the face of the current mother of all shitstorms Valve is trying to shaft Bethesda and dump all the blame on them. This stuff is likely behind an NDA and Bethesda might not be able to outright deny it anyway.
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Which would soil the relationship between Valve and Bethesda...come on...don't bring the tin foil out ...
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Lol so damage mitigation is tin-foil stuff? Plus i never said that's exactly what they're doing, I just said it could mean anything. I highly doubt Bethesda would be stupid enough to have shafted modders this hard by pulling such a dick move and asking 65% and Valve is innocent and just takes it's tiny cut.
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Looks legit to me. At the end, Valve not need to do a shit. Even if they don't do that modding shit, the company win millions every day.
Not like Bethesda. (The company who "sell" the name of Elder Scrolls to make an online shit for 60 bucks game + suscription )
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Thank you for expressing your opinion in a civil manner. I understand that this is a controversial area and might be grounds for heated debate but please refrain from insulting each other.
Sadly I cannot participate then...
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Gabe must remove this feature ASAP. Simple as that.
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Steam isn't that bad, It's one of my favourite DRM clients and it is one of the reasons I actually started to buy games.
I don't care about Early Access/Green Light, the more games the better. Just don't buy them if you don't like them and before you buy check reviews or check youtube for gameplay video's.
Only part I really agree on is that they need to spend some money on new/more servers, Steam is down/slow way too much.
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well, about the Skyrim payed mods..
Afterall, people were using Steam a long time for making profit, for example, CS:GO, TF2, from these games, you can invest a few dollars into it, and end up with more than that. Paying for mods IS really shitty, but imagine this: You're a great modder, you've created a mod that adds alot of side-missions etc., you've invested alot of time in it, and to just give it away like that, without any profit or something? Only the really good mods, that actually give you something will have a price-tag, the rest will be there for the grabs
(P.S. I'm sorry if my sentences don't make much sense, I don't have time to think it through right now, and I'm just writing something that first comes to my mind)
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The main issue with this is the money that the creator gets... 25% is just ... silly . What if it was 50%? Would be much better and any higher cut for the mod creator would make you much happier as customer.
As long as there are free mods modding wont die(atm can see only 18 paid and 23,555 free mods in skyrim's workshop) . But the fact that we will see a lot of MMO-like mods(1-2 skins and such for prices below a buck) is disturbing especially if the said "mod" is just a replica from other game. Now I personally wont mind paying money on a mod if its decent amount of content but I wont buy a single mod if the creator gets only 25% of the money.
Now saying that Valve/Steam is going down down down its a bit too much unless you dismiss all power users got(and other people are just abusing it but this is the world for you).
- Steam reviews - I think we can all agree that even 70-80% of reviews are just one liners("This game rocks/sucks", " GOTY 2015" and the likes) you can find other reviews talking about the game's content and performance.(yes you can check and YT videos and such but thats up to YOU!)
- Greenlight - Is it filled with shovelware? Yes. Does all of it make it on steam? No . Steam lack quality control thats true and so they use their customers to do it for them. The only thing Steam can use Quality control is just to make sure that the products they put on store are working! Don't like it,Don't buy it! And if the dev behind the product is shady create some awareness to warn other users. Also... I doubt it that there isnt at least one game that came out of GL and you liked it/
- Early Access - It's like a risky pre-order. You pay upfront for unfinished product,play it while in alpha/beta and praying that the game will be finished. So far I paid full price on some EA games and yet to regret any of the purchases. But looking at other games(mainly at price tag and current content) its easy to see how bad things are doing there. Games getting released unfinished and with missing features or simply broken with no content.
- Steam cards - just another way for companies to make money while you show your support(most people love to customize their profiles a bit).
- Region gifting/trading - well it was fun while it lasted but it was against the Subscriber Agreement . Valve is greedy but there are also rules to follow by the users. And I'm guilty for breaking it . Just go pirate or dont buy the game at all if you dont like the price tags.
Now I want to ask something about mod creators:
- Does the developer make the modding tools or the modding community?
- What kind of mods do you think would be worth paying for and how much?
Thanks for Skyrim but no thanks for all the greedy practices Valve !!!!
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1) Mod-friendly games develop and release kits that make modding much easier, and tools are often made by modders to make their and others' modding easier. But mod tools in the sense that you are probably asking the question aren't really necessary for modding. They just make life easier.
2) Paying for mods is always iffy, since it is a modification of someone else's work (the original artist's). Modifying the artist's work for profit is rightfully done by the artist or someone the artist hires and pays for the work. The model currently on the table is merely a means of getting free work from the community for company-owned DLC. Which is sucky.
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1) Ty for the info.
2) No surprise,if you like to heavy mod your game, you may end up with broken game and even if there is 24hours refund-no-question-asked options can still lead to such things unless you go for one-day shopping-spree and be done.
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25%, seriously? To be honest, I don't even get why the publisher should get any % at all.
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Is Valve asking you to pay for the mods? No, it's the mod makers.
Do you need to buy the mods? No, you can still use the free ones.
Are you entitled to use mods free? No. If the content creator decides that you need to pay something that he/she has created then you pay up, if they don't then you can use them free.
Does this mean that all mods will cost you? If the modders so decide.
Only bad thing I can see is the 75% that Valve is taking, if they really are taking the hole sum and game publisher isn't involved.
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None of this would have happened if it weren't for that 75% those companies are making from sitting on their asses. (Doesn't matter if Valve is taking 10% or the entire 75% - the mod creator only gets 25%. That is the real outrage.)
This all stems for one thing: GREED. I don't mind a company charging whatever they want for a product that they created, but this is just exploitive. We held Valve at too high of a regard. It's predatory just like all the companies people hate. Looking for any way to make an easy buck. Even if it means getting paid for something it did not create.
If modders had petitioned for this, then so be it. But don't act as if they did.
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I can't see it as exploitive, as making mods is still free, getting them hosted by steam is free, downloading and using them is free. Steam isn't asking anyone to pay anything for using mods. They aren't charging anything.
What they are doing is giving modders an option to ask a price for their product, yes they take a cut and that is a bit too big of a cut in my mind. If modders don't like it they can still use donations and keep mods free. This only gives them one more option.
If all modders are greedy bastards then yes all mods will forever cost a lot, but I don't believe it will happen.
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Why would making mods not be free? Valve would be shooting themselves in the foot if they charged people to make mods.
Of course getting them hosted is free. Once again, Valve would be shooting themselves. Allowing people to host mods brings in more people. Companies like having people use their website. Especially when they sell products on said website. Even more so, when the developer is unwilling to make new content for a game. This harms no one, and brings in more customers.
I agree they aren't asking anyone to pay anything, but that isn't my point. It's the fact that they saw something people enjoyed doing for free and devised a way to make money off of it, while contributing jack squat, while retaining the rights over said mod they did not create, while not taking into account the potential ramifications of their new system (like people hijacking mods from creators and posting them as their own product for sale), and while paying the mod creator very little (mod creators have to make like $100 before they even see a penny).
I am talking about what the mod creators are actually getting, what Valve is actually bringing to the table, and is happening already. I do like that Valve is very transparent about all of this. I will give them that.
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Won't this just make people play less mods? I know that I have like 30-40 mods on Skyrim, and I can guarantee that I would not have nearly that many if I had to pay for each one.
Sigh, I hope Nexus remains a solid base to obtain mods.
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40 mod is barely nothing, i have 130 and hive already saw more pp with more so ...
If you want to use enb real visiom (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/30936/?) u need at least 45 mod, and that only for the environment, if you go with armors and physics you need at least 5 other, then for each dlc (sragonborn, dawngard, etc) you need even more mod, just with the unofficial patch you need , another 7 (if you go with minimal thing )
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I don't understand why people are angry about this? No one is forcing you to use mods. And maybe this will encourage more developers to implement a workshop.
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I think valve intentions were right and Bethesda is the corrupted one here. Of course valve would earn funds by this move, but I guess its 15-30% as usual. As you can see not all games would have this option, so it's developers decision. Valve giving the mechanism which allowed to make some money for modders, but clearly benefits developers.
I want to remember you that bethesda was the first one who create non-free visual dlc for single-player game few years ago, so make conclusions. This is kinda pathetic, cause vanilla version of their game kinda meh, so they decided to monetized the work of others. I dont really care about them, but it may change everything in gaming world, which is far away from being good. My personal black list grew this year, from 2 position (EA, Blizzard) right to 6 (+2k, Ubi, Sony, Bethesda). Quiet a year.
Edited
Maybe I was wrong about percentage part, let's wait for trustworthy resources
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I hate to tell you but Bethesda not the first to charge for dlc,they are the first to try it on consoles and they never done it before so they made a few mistakes like anyone new to DLC for consoles would do,but most of the DLC for Oblivion was worth it,the horse armor was the one black eye,but they did lower the price for 99 cents.
The dlc at that time was new and nobody really knew what to charge for it let a lone what to really create for it.Horse armor was a nice idea jut wrong price point,remember consoles did not and for most part now still do not have access to mods,so how is making your horse look better any different then spending stupid money on CS-GO skins and TF2 that is 10 times worse then what they did.
Either way i do agree they could have gave the horse armor for free.
None the less i do not have an issue with people charging for mods,what i have an issue with is valve doing it just to fill there pockets with more money.I much rather see an option to donate money to them,but they will never do that as then they will not get a cut.
Heaven for bid Gaben looses out on a few more bucks in his billions and another doughnut to keep up his appearance.
I must add that Beth. was the first to charge for small DLC
Where before there was DLC just not in the form it it seems to be now.
Before it was Expansion packs,which Oblivion had 2 of which where great and worth every penny i spent on them.
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And as if Early Access games aren't enough, we now present to you Early Access MODS for an introductory price: http://i.imgur.com/HP895s6.jpg
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LOL!! Better buy now before price increase.
The next step is... Mystery mod bundle preorder!
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I have no problem with the idea of mod creators charging money, but I think that giving them only 25% will prevent this market from becoming really good. 50% (25% to Valve, 25% to devs, 50% to mod creators) would have been better IMO.
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Common...
5% Valve who does nothing.
10% Devs who makes the game.
85% mod creator who do all the fucking job.
Anyway, I prefer all donations only.
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All those saying that this is great for the modders, should check TES V:Skyrim's workshop. From mods adding Lord Gaben so you can kill him, to descriptions of modders protesting against Volvo's move in descriptions, comments of said mods, is the proof that modding is done as a hobby, for a community to enjoy, not to monetize from the same.
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"proof that modding is done as a hobby".
So couple of modders decide that that's how every modder needs to act.
It's up to the individual modder to decide if he wants to get paid of what he has been working on or not, not the cheap as consumers that want everything free or modders that are actually doing them for fun or as a hobby.
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Couple of modders=/=almost every single mod uploaded recently with a complaint against Volvo (You can check it yourself)
And just to burst your bubble, modders get 25% of what they sell it for, and Valve takes away 75% of the cut
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Valve isn't taking 75% cut, that is shared.
It doesn't matter if it is 99% of modders saying that they want their mod to be free, they are then free, but those that want to get paid should have the option.
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Why don't you get it that modders get 25% only? Regardless of how much is split, 75% is taken away
If you're saying it's fair game for modders to get a few cents for a mod they released for a dollar, then I must commend your fantastic thought provoking opinion
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I'm not saying that the 25% of the sell price is fare amount, but it's better then 0% and it might change in the future. All I'm saying that it is good that individual modders get the option to get paid.
I'm against the fact that modders shouldn't get paid at all as it seems most people think.
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as long as trash bag is strong there is no risk for customers.
all Valve-things today are made with smile on their face.
I wonder what will happen when bag breaks in half. eventually.
because Valve as a overlord of the almost whole video games market loads in yourself every possible thing, no difference whether it is gold nor thrash, only because of their greed or lust for owning every part of the widely understood PC v-g market.
and now, payments for mods creators. obligatory payments, because which Skyrim mods creator say no to that possibility?
even with so "tidy" cut as 25 for modder/75 for developer and Valve. so ridiculous in my opinion.
there was a time when Microsoft was seen as a "Light side of the Force" of the OS market. then they became aggressive player that captured the most of business. and now? they are the only option for more than 93% of cutomers, I believe than In some parts of the world their market share is larger than 98%. now, the same story happens with Valve. they only should wait to the time when EA and Ubisoft will abandon their efforts for doing business on their own rules.
as I said, everything is just great and running pretty smoothly, but only to the time when trash bag with all of these stuff collapse under its own weight. and weight is increasing all the time. 10 years ago Valve and Steam was just an option to use by players. in 10 years it may become not the one and only option to play video games on PC/MAC, but literally whole market will spin around decisions which they take. And when I say "whole market" then I mean every possible corner.
of course no big drama in my life :) that's only video games. but selling modifications to the games and taking money for ourselves and developers it's just grabbing an independent "market" under own possession.
anyway, I'll leave it here. ;))
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damn, so much words ;/
tl;dr -> View attached image.
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I see a problem here.
You can migrate easily from one OS to another, but you have a lot of games on your Steam account, and throwing all away it's pretty hard.
It's like people who has purchased a lot of App on Android/iOS/WPhone. It's hard to just change OS and lose everything.
I remember the first generation of consoles without retro-compatibility. So much pain!!! Probably a lot of people have a PS2 stored on a box and still using it from time to time because of the money (and feelings) invested. (And you can use emulators for free)
PS: Valve is doing pretty bad job, I'm simply saying I have hope for the change... because I have a lot of games there. xD
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yep, this is whole problem with constant evolution of the Steam. changes taken from time to time are smaller or bigger, sometimes it's good or worse for us, but all we become hostages of Valve and in the end there will be no choice. even now playing video games on personal computers without Steam is very difficult and only EA, Ubi, Blizzard and some other exceptions still stand on the barricade. What worse, that doesn't mean that they play with us more fairly than Valve.
What left for us?
Stockholm syndrome for everyone!
You better praise Gaben. Just think about it, what is problem here. Maybe you are? ;))
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Who can be angry with some lovely chubby with that smiley face?
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PC gaming needs a big and serious company based in EUROPE to develop a new gaming experience of user services/client to hit steam really hard and stop the monopoly.
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My apologies if I don't understand the situation correctly, but just get your mods elsewhere.. For free.. I'm sure a lot of modders will start uploading their content somewhere else so that more people can appreciate their work.
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You can still get free mods from steam, Valve isn't making you pay from them, it's some of the modders that are asking you to pay up for the use of their creation.
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Then I don't get the issue. How dare Valve give mod creators the option of charging for their creations?
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I just read somewhere about some Skyrim mod which still will be available for free but newer versions will be available only for money, by the steam workshop.
so, in the end for example for TES 6 all high-class fan-made modifications will be payable and accessible only via Steam...
whats more, I can imagine situation when pro-modders will be waiting for premiere of the game (TES 6 for example) and when it will be released they will start creating modifications, making this their job. private business created from thing which until now was a mariage of being fanboy of the modding and sandpit for learning programming/coding/amateur games development.
also, I can imagine situation when developers which game will be heavly-moddable do not use their best endeavors to polish game as it should be but will leave that task for modders.
who will do it willingly because the game will be popular and full of holes = many customers for their paid patches/modes.
and in the same time developers will continue to make money because they created not completed product...
strange but not impossible, we've seen many types of developers... ;)
the thing is brand new so we must wait one or two years maybe to evaluate it properly. it may generate a lot of problems including black market, stealing intelectual goods and all that kind of stuff. Reason to be aware about them is easily perceived - the whole deal is no longer about virtual steam-dollars. It is about real money by means of which you can buy real things in the shop around corner.
here is link to some new steamgroup, rebelya is started ! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BoycottSteamWorkshop
not my problem but this point is odd "Modders lose rights to their mod after uploading."
anyway, In Gaben we trust... in Gaben we trust =)
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I feel that only %25 revenue for modders is a scandal, but isn't it Bethesda's fault?
According to Supplemental Workshop Terms – Revenue Sharing:
"The percentage of Adjusted Gross Revenue that you are entitled to receive will be determined by the developer/publisher of the Application associated with the Workshop to which you have submitted your Contribution (“Publisher”), and will be described on the applicable Workshop page"
I hope other publishers will be more generous with modders, because it's a clear no buy for now.
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I feel like this reddit post sums up the whole situation nicely.
I wasn't aware that mod creators don't get paid if they don't earn at least 100$. Also i can't believe anybody is actually supporting and using this being that valve takes 75% of the profit.
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+100
This entire deal is rigged in favor of Valve and the publisher while giving pennies on the dollar to the mod creator to screw over mod users. If a mod creator wants to charge a ton for these mods, then good for him/her. But don't act as if he is getting what he is charging--that goes to someone who created nothing. I'm just tired of people trying to make up reasons to support this crap.
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And the paid mods are gone!!!!!
"Sorry!
An error was encountered while processing your request:
This item is no longer for sale, but if you have purchased it, you will still have access to it."
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No not all. Only the mods by chesko. Here is his explanation:
http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/
edit: Ok, I see it now. apparantly you can't buy any of the mods at the moment. They are stil listed , but when you click on them you get that error message. Interesting
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The first mod has been removed for not having proper permission to use the mod or parts of it.
This is why i said to start with this will be a big mess who has claim to what and who is to profit and who is to get part of those profits?
http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-for-skyrim-mod-removed-in-a-matter-of-hours/
As i said before anyone who buys these mods and gives valve a cut should punch themselves in the face,instead find out how to donate to the actual author and give them 100% not what valve thinks they deserve
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Yep my favorite modder who's like a family member to me, creator of the best mods for Skyrim has been threatened, exploited, accused and dragged around in public and got pretty much ruined reputation-wise. He might not even continue modding.
This is exactly the kind of damage I was afraid of. So much devastation in so little time.
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On that side topic, what the hell is happening to TF2?
At one point buds were going for $26 in the market (like in February), and now they are only going for $12.
Not only that, but steam traders don't really want TF2 keys anymore. And if they do accept them, they always charge you more than if you had DOTA2 or CS:GO keys (ex: only accepting 10 CS:GO keys or 11 Tf2 keys). They all cost the same in store.
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Discuss.
[UPDATE]
Seems like the mod authors themselves are really enjoying the new system. This is all so good for modders/players alike huh? Nuff said.
[IMPORTANT PART]
So yeah RIP Skyrim modding pretty much, trading is dead/dying, region locks are getting crazier every day and heck even the TF2 economy is pretty much gone (I just throw it in the pile). Fear not we still have a shitty, laggy slow client, inconsistent download speeds and Steam servers collapsing during bigger events/sales or just whenever they feel like it. Outrageously bad support, big profile Early Access scams and failures (Spacebase df-9, WarZ, Stomping Land). Complete lack of quality control and responsibility over Greenlight (and in turn store content).
[TL;DR PART]
To tell the truth, I'd be fine with the rest of the issues, I could live with region restrictions, Early Access, Greenlight etc as they do not directly affect my personal gaming experience (although I do disapprove of them and I happily express my opinion)
Introducing paid modding is the last straw and it is way over the line. It directly kills off the most loved aspect of gaming for me. I am one of those special people who prefer modding games to playing them. I am already supporting modders over at the Nexus, but I will not pay £400-500/game to get all the 100+ mods I love to configure, test and use. I don't think it is unreasonable. If you don't have a clue about modding in general, or you are not a mod user then I'd recommend that you refrain from repeating popular comments like "finally modders get paid for their hard work" etc. it'll just make you look silly, you obviously have no clue.
More on modding (Skyrim Specific)
Thank you for expressing your opinion in a civil manner. I understand that this is a controversial area and might be grounds for heated debate but please refrain from insulting each other.
Also the poll is just a joke.
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