???
No, this isn't the delusionary vision of a pissed Italian
I don´t believe you xD (and of course Im german ^^)
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Im from Argentina, germany won, Chile won, but...penaltys... is really LEL.... I will never understand that... =P. thats when i play PES i don't use penaltys..is so random xD.
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I don't believe it happened, I'm sure tomorrow when I'll wake up it'll be Saturday again...
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Necessary comment by someone who's not big into sports, has no idea what is going on, and feels the strange need to say so
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It basically goes like this:
- Germany never managed to beat Italy in official matches;
- Germany finally "beat" Italy, but only after the penalty shoot-outs;
- Germans would like to brag about "breaking the curse", but statistics only consider the result until the end of the extra time, so the match is effectively a draw;
- This is why I made this topic a reality check for Germans, and a way to cheer up Italians.
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Oh I think I get it... So the end shoot-out is mainly used in a in a tournament tie game, where one team has to go forward. Because soccer in every other game has the ability to end in a tie with no decisive winner and is recorded as such... right?
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Exactly that.
Allegedly, the penalty shoot-outs were invented by an Israeli man after the Israeli national football team lost in the 1968 Olympics after a coin flip.
Now for a bit of trivia: two World Cup finals were decided by penalty shoot-outs, and Italy was there both times!
We lost in 1994 against Brazil, and won against France in 2006.
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If you're Chilean then you can celebrate the winning of the Copa America, but you didn't win the match...
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Tell that to my grandpa. He would rip you a new one XD
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Let me see what is the point of this thread , technically you lost , theoretically was a tie ... and what is the point of this thread again :V
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The point of this thread?
Letting Germans know that while they're the ones who advanced in the tournament, they didn't beat Italy in a way that would be recorded as such.
And bragging rights about Italy still being technically undefeated by Germany in official matches, that's something more worthy than advancing in a tournament...
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OK ... but how much I disliked that Italy won against France in 06, I really wanted Zidan to win another world cup even if the mach was a tie the cup went to you Italy so ... you can cling to technicalities how much you want but they are still in the cup Italy is not :D
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Good luck with that. I'm Italian, and some sport fans here cling to technicalities harder than politicians... :P
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Sure, the statistic still says we haven't beaten Italy in a big tornament, BUT that doesn't matter to me one bit... seeing as Germany is through to the semi-final. So we didn't beat you, but we got past you all the same... and in a tournament that IMHO is the only thing that counts.
Let's see who wins if / when we meet in Russia 2018.
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I completely agree with that, it's Germany who advanced to the next stage, and that's what matters the most right now...
But at least we have our little win, you can't deny that to us!
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Nah, I don't have a hedgehog. But yesterday I saw someone else use the Audiosurf avatar I had before AND I thought maybe now non-german speakers get what my nickname means. So I took a pic LostSoulVL posted in one of my GAs and installed it as my avatar.
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Just like how Portugal haven't won a single game in 90 mins in the whole tournament. You don't need to win matches just roll the dice and let penalties decide who will be champions. Wales vs. Iceland will be one great final.
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I'm sure many English people will be pissed if the final turns out to be Wales vs Iceland...
I know one that would be extra pissed if Iceland wins, but let's not talk about it...
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This finale, OR Portugal winning the cup NEVER winning a match. Only those two will satisfy me.
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You know that I was thinking the same about the final?
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True. Italy didn't lost to Germany but they didn't win the World cup in 2006 either. :P
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Technically, we won the Cup (someone had to win it), but didn't win the match.
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All the options are potatoes, so you should just choose the German one.
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sounds a bit like racism to potatoes, at least they are just patata, however you name them :D
the same way i see the EM, thats are just few teams playing some games.
im also didnt knew that germany won until i saw your post, and im german... ;)
but im totally understand you, hoping for a good match, and get a bitchfight. :o
+whitelisted you
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You... didn't know?
I'm sure people must've thrown parties to celebrate, especially given that there aren't worthy adversaries left in the tournament, so you've basically just won it.
+ Whitelisted back
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Not really, in germany they celebrate that while driving with their cars and pressing the horn permanently like they have a pregnant woman on the backseats and heading to the hospital...
and here living much italians also other nationalitys ofc where i come from, they celebrate on the same way... no different for me between those horn sounds :D
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Then you're still in the right place!
I selected the best potatoes from Italy, Germany, and all around the world to put in the poll basket.
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So what? Then they maybe didn't "win" by that definition but Germany definitely won in the sense that they got lucky, beat Italy that way, and now are in the semi finale (..because they beat Italy.. by being lucky). I really don't see how that matters...
Also, nice Uni profile pic ^_^
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Statistics.
Or, strictly speaking, bragging rights.
Football fans take these things seriously... (most sports fans do, actually...)
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Exactly. People take things too seriously these days. It may be a competition, but the main goal is to have fun and enjoy the games after all, isn't it?
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Right.
And I actually enjoyed the match, until the penalties, at least...
Watching the penalties made my heart beat faster than when I see a certain girl I like... Okay, probably not as fast, but almost there...
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I know right? I mean the game itself was pretty tense but oh boy, watching the penalties was so nerve-wracking! Simply because it's mostly luck based. I mean, yeah, you can practise that... but can you though?
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Germany being lucky at penalties LOL , If you want to win the game just don't let them go to the penalties because they always win there
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I applaud this sort of delusional optimism.
On a more serious note, I hate penalties. I would rather do golden goal OTs for as long as it takes.
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Did you see how broken some of those players were? Endless extra time would be ridiculous and impractical for some many reasons.
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It isn't practical, but it's fair. Many critics, including players feel the same. I understand why penalties exist, but it's far from a perfect solution.
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I suspect they do. Also suspect that were it ever implemented and they played an hours extra time with a three days turnaround to the next match there would be wistful memories of those long-reviled penalty shootouts.
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I think you misunderstand the situation a bit. It did used to be that way, having only OTs. Penalties were introduced for the exact reason you point out, player fatigue. Not only is it hard for scheduling, but it's a dangerous physical toll on the players. There are still sports that utilize endless OTs and sudden death, such as hockey.
That said, many still recognize that while penalties are a necessary evil, they are a long way from a fair evaluation of skill. There are many examples of teams who arguably had dominant momentum for the entire game are unlucky and lose in PKs. There's nothing wrong with criticizing an imperfect system. It's important to revise, refine, and not shy away from change due to the longevity of a system in place. I'm not arguing against the reason for penalties, I'm simply striving for fair competition.
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I'm willing to be proved wrong but I don't think there was ever endless extra time (non of your Americanisms around football, typlz :P ) to decide games. At least in English cup football it was decided by a coin toss while the game was predominantly amateur and then replays became a thing at some point.
Penalties were essentially a reaction to the sport getting 'bigger' postwar, the impracticality of replays, the shittiness of the random coin toss, problems with policing, congestion, scheduling and frankly people wanting to go home. Much the same reasons they cling on to this day despite no one much enjoying them.
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(non of your Americanisms around football, typlz :P )
Well that was kind of rude, I didn't choose to be born here. I also get enough ridicule from other Americans for preferring the original football over hand-egg, so it's a stinging slight when you push me off talking about the sport just because of my nationality.
I also don't understand exactly what you're trying to argue. We've discussed why they exist, but that wasn't really my original point.
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And for being insanely touchy too I guess. Suppose we're done then, have a magical day o/
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Heh, the kneejerk blacklist-- classy.
I won't be returning the favor back to you, as you're free to speak your mind without fear of petty blacklisting from me.
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Doc is an established football expert here on SG, despite his American heritage ;)
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Since when does someone need to be european to understand a game that's played all around the world, and it's history can be read on internet? Or am I mistaken and I'm forbidden to learn anything that's beyond my country / continent?
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You are right, my friend :)
It was said with a winking eye to the [European] stereotypical of the football-ignorant handegg playing American ;)
They [The Americans] have improved dramatically lately related to beer brewing skills and football (soccer) capabilities!!
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You can't have golden goal for as long as it takes. There's too much money from advertisments to spend them watching some guys running after a ball.
Or it will end like Heidi Game: "The game was notable for its finish, in which Oakland scored two touchdowns in the final minute to win the game 43–32, but was named for a decision by the game's broadcaster, NBC, to break away from its coverage of the game on the east coast to broadcast the television film Heidi, causing many viewers to miss the Raiders' comeback".
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That was also in 1968 when there were far fewer channels and less funding in television. These days, the overrun is simply picked up on a secondary (usually subscription) channel.
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No idea how it is for you, but here Public (aka Government) Television is more-or-less required to get National Matches. If they would dare to cut them short, there's be hell to pay. Or at least public riots until Director of Public Television would be exchanged into new one ;)
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Haha, that sounds like a fun time. That's pretty awesome actually, gotta have the priorities in life!
Here, it's a grab bag of media corporations in open bidding wars to televise any and every live event.
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Oh, it happens here too. But when it comes to National Events, especially football*, if you win rights to televise it, you practically have to do it in free canal or you'll lose all popularity among people - so if they don't have their own nation-wide free canal, they usually split it with Public Television.
*And with football it is especially funny, because AFAIK for last 25 years at every big event we only played 3 matches: "first match", "all-or-nothing match", "honor match", then going home :P
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please no more golden goal. it was utter bullshit to lose a match by receiving a golden goal. losing at penalties also sucks, but less than golden goal by orders of magnitude. imho
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golden goal doesn't grant any chance of answer. you receive it and you're out, and have no time to enmend, not even a couple seconds. you are killed in that very moment, sportwise. penalties are shot one to one, if you score yours, you are still alive, you depend on yourself in each step.
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Well, it could be argued that regulation time and normal OTs are plenty of time for answer goals. I guess my beef with PKs is that they are so different from the standard makeup of what it takes to score a goal and win a game. It feels like an abrupt, jarring change of pace that isn't reflective of what it took to get there.
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Well, it could be argued that regulation time and normal OTs are plenty of time for answer goals.
In other words, 90 minutes of regular time and 2 Extra (not Over) times are enough for a stronger team to come out victorious before a penalty shootout.
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You sports people made your games wrong. You can't have people DRAW during tournaments! How are people supposed to play a game while creating art?!
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Grasping for semantics is always desperate stuff :P
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No thread would be complete without a blunt comment from you ^_^
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A "Penalty Kick" and "Penalty Shootout" are two different things, Germany won the "Penalty Shootout" not a Penalty Kick" so yes they won the match. :D
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No because a Penatly Kick is awarded for an infringement within the normal/extra time of the game, a Penalty Shootout is just extra extra time to decide a winner. Years ago they'd play until someone scored which I think was more fun but because of how long the match could go on they introduced the penalty shootout after extra time if there was no clear winner.
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Don't get in details ... I don't think they care :V
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"A penalty shoot-out (officially kicks from the penalty mark) is a method of determining the winner of an association football (soccer) match that is drawn after the regulation as well as extra playing time."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_shoot-out_(association_football)
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But also:
A shoot-out is usually considered for statistical purposes to be separate from the match which preceded it.
in the case of a single match, it is still considered as a draw.
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But also:
In the calculation of UEFA coefficients, shoot-outs are ignored for club coefficients, but not national team coefficients, where the shoot-out winner gets 20,000 points: more than the shoot-out loser, who gets 10,000 (the same as for a draw) but less than the 30,000 points for winning a match outright. In the FIFA World Rankings, the base value of a win is three points; a win on penalties is two; a draw and a loss on penalties are one; a loss is zero. The more complicated ranking system FIFA used from 1999 to 2006 gave a shoot-out winner the same points as for a normal win and a shoot-out loser the same points as for a draw; goals in the match proper, but not the shoot-out, were factored into the calculation.
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the match was bad. no team was clearly able to win. i don't remember other match reaching the 9th penalty. ofc Germany scored at the end and was to semis. anyway a much bigger team was unable to win a weak Italy, whose only strengths were the tactical plan and the defense subteam from Juve.
i guess out of Italy it cannot be understood, but we really feel (at least some) like germany was not able to overcome us. a small satisfaction, but still it is there.
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Germany scored a goal. Italy just happened to be lucky to hit the hand and get the penalty.
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Pretty much this. Germany scored a regular goal in that match, Italy did not.
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But if you ride on semantics: the one who advanced in the tournament has to be the winner and the one who is now heading home, being eliminated, has to be the loser. You cannot say "it was a draw where we were eliminated". It's like "i passed the final exam and failed the subject"—an oxymoron.
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I thought that was general knowledge, guess I was wrong. :D
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So, the UEFA Euro 2016's quarter final between Italy and Germany was won by Germany... or was it?
Sorry German folks, you might be the ones who advanced to the semi-finals, but you DIDN'T win.
No, this isn't the delusionary vision of a pissed Italian, it's all written in the rules:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_14_the_penalty_kick_en_47369.pdf
On page 17, it says:
What that means, is that the penalties shot after the extra time are just a tie-breaker to decide who will advance to the next stage of a knock-out tournament, but the match will be considered a draw for statistical purposes.
Sorry for breaking the mood, but at least we can say that both teams won:
You can at least let us have that little satisfaction, right?
No hidden giveaways, I'll just eagerly await for responses from Germans and Italians (please write in English).
Please don't shoot the messenger, I'm just shedding light over the truth...
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