Funny?
The punchline can be improved by editing it to:
You had to be there.
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Reminds me of God on Trial but isn't Zizek an atheist? That story pretty much loses all meaning if you don't believe in the existence of God, doesn't it?
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Why? I like stories about spider-man, and I don't need to believe in existence of spider-man to like it.
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Why? I like stories about spider-man, and I don't need to believe in existence of spider-man to like it.
I get what you mean but it's not a story about God, it's a story about people talking to God and accusing him of not "being there".
if he doesn't exist.... that pretty much invalidates the joke, doesn't it?
If he wasn't there because he gave up on people, he had to exist in the first place. And if he never existed... who are they talking to?
I'm neither an atheist nor religious. I would consider myself agnostic so this kind of joke is interesting from the point of view or rhetoric.
Hence my comment. I'm not offended or anything.
And the same problem would happen if people were talking about Spiderman not being there... to Spiderman.
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I honestly can't see any inconsistencies here.
For me, meaning of the story - even if god exist, he's ridiculous, because he is supposed to be almighty, all-knowing and kind, and yet he gave up his people.
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It got a single chuckle out of me, but maybe that was because I felt kinda guilty.
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Isn't it rather like "After the sniff Holocaust and Auschwitz and all sniff, most of the Jews are sniff in heaven and two of them are sitting on a park bench sniff and talking about what they've been through sniff."
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Oh, new anecdote in Zizek's repertoire. Hope he's alright after this illness that paralized half of his face. Popularity on saloon just a mess, 25 likes to last article - shame.
thephilosophicalsalon.com/author/sz/
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I believe we should not blame God for the evil done by men.
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Let's say my dog mauls a kid. We're talking emotional and physical scars that will never heal. Can I just shrug that off because I also taught my dog to fetch and shake? Am I not responsible for the bad as well? And what if I actually taught the dog to attack kids and said "It's your choice whether you fetch or attack." What kind of dog owner does that make me?
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Let's say men are dogs...
...I have no idea what your scenario even means.
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You're calling men dogs, and that they're owned by God?
Or are you saying the men don't have a freewill choice in what they do, but are mere robots, poorly programmed by some higher being?
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Well, according to bible, god created men, and did it the way he wanted. And I didn't even created my dog. So, actually, god should be responsible for men MUCH MORE than I'm responsible for my dog, because, you know, I'm not omnipotent, I may try to train my dog, but I can't actually change it. But god can, and he does not. So all the evil done by men was INTENTIONALLY made by god.
Lol, I'm joking. There is no god, so nobody to blame but men.
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Thank you for that. I've never conversed with someone who doesn't understand metaphor and it has been baffling.
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I'm sorry, but comparing different and unrelated things is entirely the point of a metaphor. It's always apples and oranges. I'll make it plain: if God made humanity, then God is responsible for the good AND bad that humanity does.
And if you read what mayanaise wrote, they never made that point it any point for that matter.
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So you understand a metaphor but say owner: dog doesn't relate to God: his creation? If my kid turns out bad then yes, I would wonder what part I had to play. I may not be legally responsible, but I'm not completely removed from the situation.
Seems like you just want to argue though. Have a good one!
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On the other hand, the "argument from evil" has been a central debate in philosophy and theology. Not all religions throughout history have held God to be omnibenevolent and it's been argued that Judaism is one of them. So while the OT is an atheist's joke, it actually could have been a Jewish joke too. Either way, I think the whole point is that it's not possible to explain an evil so overwhelmingly egregious as the wholesale murder of millions as the consequence of free will as bestowed by God - If that's what you meant.
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Read Murder Mysteries by Neil Gaiman (40 something pages maybe) , I'm curious if you would change your statement in any way after doing so.
I don't want to spoil the story and the idea, it's not a "lol how could we blame someone who doesn't exist lololol" story either, and it's adding something new and different to your statement that I think is new for you, but not really against what you said - more of a different view.
If you're not up to it, I'll write the main points in spoiler because I think it would be interesting for you and for whoever else is curious.
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Thanks for indication, Adam. I'll put this book on my list.
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Well but according to many religions their gods have a great perfect big plan and everything that is happening in the world is part of their big perfect plan so evil done by men is also a part of god perfect plan. And god won't just change his whole great plan because it is a perfect plan so even if people pray they pray for nothing because if something is in god great plan it will happend and if it is not it will never happend so praying is useless as god won't change the world and his perfect plan just for you.
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And according to the Christian religion Jews got exactly what they deserved for killing Jesus. It just took God couple millennia to come up with a revenge brutal enough to suit his reputation so all according to the perfect plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther#Antisemitism
Good thing evolution blessed us with intellect so we can think for ourselves and ignore such silly fairy tales.
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Er… Weren't romans the ones who had him executed? For causing a scene and property damage in a local temple?
And even if that was not the case, why would anyone ever blame a whole ethnic group for the deeds of a few individuals (thousands of years after the death of said individuals, too)?
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Jews were the ones who apprehended him and brought to be judged by the Roman overlords who just did what the angry mob demanded to keep peace.
Because they believe in an angry male wargod who punishes sons for the sins of their fathers generations later and avenges everything 77-fold. Why would anyone want to have an imaginary friend like that is the better question.
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angry male wargod
Oookaaay… I have two questions – or is it two iterations of the same one?
Why do you specifically mention males here, and why do you attribute gender (sex?) to an entity that's not supposed to have sexual reproduction (especially in the context of negative description)?
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Because monotheistic religion replacing the worship of ancestral and natural spirits with always male wargods who gave justification to treating women as animals with no rights and killing everyone who calls the same wargod with a different name is when religion went bad.
And because father, son and holy spirit is the core of that religion, so why would I not mention it to point out more how ridiculous it is.
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"Father and son" are there because stuff like "non-gendered parental figure" is ridiculous and people those days were unable to achieve the level of mental degradation required to come up with such a concept.
As for your "always male wargods" rhetoric, it's highly subjective and most likely based entirely on your personal agenda. Not to mention it has zero relation to the topic at hand. Being male is not a negative trait, and anyone who believes otherwise is a nutcase. And conflating it with idea of mistreatment of people (not to mention your personal beef with your perception of monotheism) is just misuse of arguments. First of all, the idea that a religion has negative ideas in their teaching because it has a male god is clearly based on bias rather than logic. (Also, negative things being characteristic specifically to monotheism is a misnomer at best. Just take a look what romans – the ones who adopted Christianity and basically made it 'mainstream' – had before that. Or do you think Zeus'/Jupiter's habit of tricking and/or raping mortal women on a whim was a good thing? And the number of religions in general who ascribed to peaceful ideas could be counted on one hand, even if you include those which never bother to actually uphold them.)
treating women as animals with no rights
Since when did Islam become the topic of this conversation?
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You asked me why ancient people believed one way or the other, I explained it and now you're trying to make it look like my agenda somehow?
I never claimed there is anything bad in being male, why would I? But if you imagine worshipping Mother Earth and being one with nature is the exact same thing as worshipping an angry male wargod who gives you commands to slaughter others and rape the Earth, you really need to think more.
Then you change the topic to just Islam because you don't seem to know what Abrahamic religions are. Protip: back in the dark ages they were all the exact same.
Stop imagining I believe in this or that, especially things that you make up. You do know that you can understand things and talk about them without some blind belief in them?
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This is exactly what I'm saying. You're attributing the 'bad' parts of religion to the god being male (if you didn't, you wouldn't have specifically mentioned gender, and I wouldn't be responding to it in the first place). If you fail to recognize what I'm saying, my problem with your statements is and had been from the start that you unnecessary bring up gender in negative context for no reason other than to emphasize someone as being bad.
worshipping Mother Earth and being one with nature
That's… Not exactly how polytheism works. Also, druids (the only ones I can think of who worshiped "Mother Earth" specifically as opposed to a host of deities) were perfectly fine doing what you would describe as a bad thing, including to females. Yanno, "dark ages" and everything…
you change the topic to just Islam
You were the one who mentioned "treating women as animals with no rights", and Islam is the only one religion which has such aspirations to such an extent. Unless by "animals with no rights" you mean just someone with fewer rights? Back in the days there weren't that many rights to have in the first place, and it was a generally societal rather than religious thing to discriminate based on gender or class (and really, discrimination on gender was almost nonexistent in comparison with class discrimination).
You asked me why ancient people believed one way or the other
Stop imagining I believe in this or that, especially things that you make up. You do know that you can understand things and talk about them without some blind belief in them?
Is this the definition of irony? (If you don't get it, try to re-read the first paragraph)
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No I'm still not, you're the only one imagining that I believe there is something bad about being male. Just stop triggering for some unknown reason please? If you still fail to understand this very clear message, there is very little hope for you.
When did I say that's how polytheism works? I really fail to see how 1 Earth Mother is plural making it a pantheon. You keep on bringing new stuff to the discussion and then claiming I said them.
And you still don't have the faintest of clues of where your apparently beloved Christianity comes from. Protip still: look up Abraham and his God, from where all the 3 religions came. So Islam = Christianity, stupid people just wage wars about calling the same angry male wargod by different names.
No it's the definition of reality and logic, but these concepts seem to be out of your grasp. You seem to imagine I'm Martin Luther from the 1500s and demand that I explain why his stupid religion sucks as much as the next one. Then you get angry when I do what you asked and keep on imagining more stuff I never said as my words. Just stop doing that and maybe try reading what I wrote, then ...thinking... and finally then you could come with an argument that's actually related to what I wrote. Until that time I'm of course happy to keep making fun of you if you still want to continue arguing with your own imagination.
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…
You provide a description of why you consider a specific religion (or a group of religions it belongs to) as being bad, and you mention the deity being male in that list. Which is precisely the point I'm arguing, because the direct implication of that mention is that being male is to be considered a negative thing.
Then when you're confronted about it you claim that all "bad" religions ever have male gods and are male-centered, and oppose them against some made up hippie tribalistic religion that exists in your head (because no, in pretty much any period of time in history only separate small tribes had ever really had any semblance of what you describe and there is completely zero grounds for the claim that they were very good and nice to everyone just because of that, much less that everything vent haywire because someone decided to replace that with a "male" religion or whatnot).
Then you proceed to misrepresent the whole discussion as being about something else entirely, misrepresent my points and views on it by claiming they're something you randomly decided them to be, and insult my intelligence based on your own false representation of the discussion.
But at least this allows me to officially bow out as it's clear that even in an internet discussion you're stuck in a world of your own creation, and no matter what I say it's not going to reach you – thus making any further interaction entirely pointless.
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The point you still keep arguing is that your masculinity is somehow being threatened by me saying God is male and you keep triggering about it. So I'll keep doing it purely for fun.
I wasn't confronted about anything, you still keep on making stuff that I "claimed". Now it's all religions ever, another thing I never said. And now I have some hippie tribalistic religion apparently in my head just because you claim so. Try reading fact books for a change and not just your beloved fiction one.
I'm the one mispresenting what you say? That was actually funny. You're the one who is doing exactly what you accuse me of, so time to look in the mirror maybe?
You're the one stuck inside your puny religion and reading everything from a fairy tale book instead of ever thinking for yourself it seems. I guess it's easy, all the ready answers and no hard thinking. If you had ever actually said something of value we could have had an interaction. Now it has only been you arguing with things you claim I said but never did. So I'll still only keep making fun of you.
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…
Alright, you got me. I actually intended to drop the conversation altogether, but your trolling skill was actually enough to get me to
return for a final post. (At least I hope it's trolling and not genuine stupidity.)
I just want to point out that from the very start I never said anything that would indicate me protecting or liking any religion at all (including the one you believe I'm worshiping). Because I don't. I'm agnostic, in fact.
But of course you never paid any attention to that, because in your mind I'm a devout religious fanatic who dared to raise an objection to your statement. Even though the only thing I objected to in your original statement was that, again, while providing a description of why you think the religion in question (I'm not sure if it's Christianity or Judaism, but then again, I don't give a damn) is bad, you specifically mentioned in that list of negative traits maleness of their god. Because yes, it totally doesn't mean that you see it as a negative trait when you specifically mention it as one…
Now, maybe you just have no clue how language works and unable to understand she meaning of statements you're producing, but the way you utterly ignore everything I say to present me as, quote, "stuck inside my puny religion and reading everything from a fairy tale book," shows you're most likely doing this intentionally. I simply refuse to believe that someone able to produce coherent sentences is actually that stupid.
As for whatever "fact books" you're referencing, I'm not sure, because the ones you're apparently quoting seem to be overflowing with some propaganda… I'm not really familiar with any like that because when I was studying the subject of history in school it was based on historical data and not whatever your "fact books" were made up of. Although I'm willing to give them benefit of the doubt if your reading comprehension back then was the same as you've demonstrated so far.
…I should probably comment on the rest of the crap you're spouting but sadly the entertaining potential of your trolling is still too limited to hold my attention any longer. So I'll stop feeding you now.
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This is exactly what I'm saying. You're attributing the 'bad' parts of religion to the god being male
Pretty much most if not all religions up to the Judeo Christian twist were based on polytheist concept or some form of nature shamanism. The Gods were gendered in a off-hand way and were both represented and motherhood was considered sacred.
Then somehow, the creation of life was taken away from women, the very act of giving birth was made punishment for women for... wanting to know things and a big father in the sky was created.
How can you say that gender had nothing to do with religion? It was all about patriarchy imposing itself through mysticism.
If you think it's Starwhite just pushing some agenda, you need to read more about ethno sociology and the foundation of myths in ancient culture.
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…Your entire comment is a claim that creation of male gods is a part of a secret plot to enforce social roles of genders (which were the way they were for practical reasons first and foremost, so your claim betrays your biased view) and that somehow the only state beside that was an idealistic perception of religion centered around making your idea of the ones you're attacking (or rather your perception of them) look bad. So my answer to your question is that you're clearly placing too much emphasis on gender for it to be an unbiased claim. Which is the whole point of the conversation (from my side, at least; I just found out that the other side randomly decided my arguments are something entirely different from what I said).
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Yeah Abrahamic religions are a super secret plot that nobody has ever heard of. That was the funniest thing you said yet. :)
If you would actually say your own arguments instead of only ever attacking what you make up to be the other side's arguments, you would get actual conversation back instead of people getting bored of you and doing the exact same back. Maybe now you finally get how frustrating it feels and stop doing it?
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At least someone bothers to read what was actually said :)
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You should read The Golden Bough. Haha, just kidding - it's pretty long. Short version: the ancient world was pretty much dominated by pagan matriarchal (female centric earth mother worshiping) societies which were eventually overrun and defeated by pagan patriarchal (male dominated sky father worshiping) societies. When those societies merged, female gods were preserved but in diminished capacities and the role of women was also diminished. And yes, women who used to rule, lost their rights, and had no role in government, which is clearly evidenced in Greco-Roman cultures. When the monotheistic religions moved in, the patriarchal model was preserved and the remnants of the pagan religions assimilated - including the concept of deity triads, which were very common in pagan religions, so Father/son/holy ghost which doesn't figure much in the bible, but was a concept likely to be attractive to new converts to Christianity in the ancient world.
It's just history .
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Hypothesis is not a fact, and religion reflecting societal norms doesn't equal societal norms being created by the religion.
Anyway, the whole point of the discussion is that when one provides a list of negative traits of a religion, and mentions the gender of the god being worshiped in it, it exposes judgemental bias of that person based entirely on perception imbalance of genders. Which is insulting, especially to a member of said gender.
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That you write not looks funny to me,but what look funny is i know is happen this for real:
One time germany nazi soldiers come to my road where i live,
they say that people live in my road must to give Sex,Food,Drink for FREE because they are "Superior Race",
after 10 minutes grandad of someone go to them and kill all them,
after some days germany send 50 soldiers here and 33 of them all die too,
17 of them survive and ask "What is wrong with this place? is this "Hornet Nest" or what the hell?,
and priest say "I never see god here,but better you back from where you come"
After some years the killer of germany nazi get also prize for:
"Center of the most active and organized anti-fascism, the Quadraro district was the scene of the fiercest mopping up by Nazi troops. A shining testimony of resistance to the oppressor and an admirable example of courage, solidarity and patriotism."
hahahaha yes this is funny story and also true hahaha.
also funny thing is until 2019 wikipedia or also book history write about it hahaha
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fit.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGiuseppe_Albano
very funny ha? hahaha
Bye.
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well now that is just the kind of joke that triggers les gutmenschen to BL you to like over 9000.
but now enough of ze nazi jokes ja? it's making me führious!
since i'm german i'm not allowed to crack any jokes related to the "windmill of friendship" for legal reasons.
instead i'll humor you with something i picked up on 9gag the other day and i've been loving it ever since!
what's the difference between asian people and racism?
racism has many faces!
and now some fresh tanzmusik!
and a little extra for the fans
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I'm not particularly familiar with Mr Žižek's works, yet his The Pervert's Guide documentaries are probably one of my favourite nonfictional movies. His psychoanalytic theoretical perspective is just damn amazing even to witness even if one does not necessarily agree or understand his views.
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Joke is funny and clever :)
Something also funny and clever just for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE
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Really can't believe someone on the support team of this website would stoop so low, with all their supposed rules.
Well, yeah, actually, I do believe it.
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I got the joke, and it produced a small chuckle out of me...in sort of an, "I see what you did there" way instead of a, "oh, that's a good one" way.
That said, there are probably some topics that, well, just don't lend themselves to jokes, IMO. I consider genocide among those topics...especially in a large, international forum where you're certain to encounter people who have ancestors who died in the Holocaust, and perhaps even some who got to experience the pain, loss, and anger first-hand, maybe not themselves, but in a parent or grand-parent.
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It's good on several fronts:
- It's fun 'cause it refers to an inside joke, only known to those who shared the experience, and the emotional turmoil of being there;
- It's fun 'cause it suggests that God was not around, accusing him of leaving humanity at it's darkest in recent time;
- It's fun 'cause it (slightly) suggests that the Jews are perhaps still living through that particular ordeal, and are dreaming, delusional, or hallucinating, again suggesting that God is not only absent at the time, but doesn't exist anywhere but in our imaginations.
However you look at this joke it is hilarious and thought provoking, but at the same time I don't think this is a gag that can be told by anyone, anyhow. It might seriously offend some if delivered by the wrong person, or in the wrong setting.
Holocaust/God/Jew jokes are funny like that.... pun intended
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As a jew, I find the number of offended people in this thread, too damn high and offensive. If you're offended, it's your problem. The are no laws about hurting someone's feelings, except in repressive countries.
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As of your comment, there was barely any indications of 'being offended'. You jumped way too fast into that rhetoric :P
edit : Also on the second page, which only has two comments at this moment
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:P let me be offended by the few that did.
I need to learn to bait better, tho
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Atheists and Theists are all pumped up and arguing, how they are offended is what makes it funnier
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I was at Slavoj Zizek's lecture last week in HNK and during his lecture, he shared a great joke with the audience. So now I'm leaking it to you. Pirating it, in some way even.
After the Holocaust and Auschwitz and all, most of the Jews are in heaven and two of them are sitting on a park bench and talking about what they've been through.
One says to the other: "Ishmael, do you remember when those guards were dragging you across the hall to the gas chamber and you happened to hit your head on the edge there. You cracked your skull open and died even before you got to the chamber haha! It's a bit funny when you think about it!"
The other goes: "heh yeah, I suppose it is kinda funny in some weird way"
Now, as they are talking and laughing, God is nearby and listening to them. He decides to approach them.
God says to them: "I'm sorry but....I'm a bit confused about your story. I mean, your friend would have died anyway so how can you laugh at this? I don't see anything funny in what happened to you. Sorry, but I just don't get it".
One of the Jews stands up, goes up to God, pats him on the shoulder and says: "well, of course you don't get it. You weren't there.
The giveaway is through this link
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