I feel like at this point and time, there are so many resources to make trades through steam with, that if you are getting scammed its because you almost deserve to. It's really not that difficult to find a reputable trader to make a trade with that you won't have to worry about chargebacks with. There are plenty of russian/south east asia/wherever cheaper market area traders with hundreds of rep over on steamtrades that all have very good prices.
Even now if someone offering a price that seems too good to be true, it probably is. If you are looking to trade with someone who seems shady for a slightly cheaper price than you can find from someone more reputable, kinda feel you are putting that own risk on yourself and should own up to it instead of crying to valve because you got screwed trying to screw people.
I suppose it will be more difficult to get into the trading game, as a seller though. Assuming you are willing to take a slight profit loss to undercut to build credit like you need to do now anyways and you aren't actually trying to scam people, I don't see how that is any issue.
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Stealing in real life is an issue because you are depriving the rightful owner of that item.
Games piracy is different. If you know for a fact that you will not buy the game at that price, then pirating it does not deprive anyone of anything. Issue arises when people who would have purchased the game pirate it instead. But it is for the OP to decide which category he belongs to.
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So as long as it's digital everything is ok? Guess no one that had his mmo account stolen have no right to try and get it back and be mad about it, he only spent 1000 hours playing it, but it's ok they didn't steal anything in real life right?
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Not too sure what you just said. But I did make a clear distinction about no one being deprived or anything in certain cases of pirating games. You seem to be talking about MMO and stolen accounts. Firstly you cannot pirate MMO games, and secondly if you steal someone's account, you are depriving them off it.
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Terrible example.
Piracy = making a copy for yourself without paying. Nothing is taken away from someone else.
Account stealing/hijacking = traditional theft. You are clearly taking the original account away from the other user.
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It amazes me that people are so scumbag, they can truely believe a statement like this. Pirating is straight up stealing up money from a developer. Just because you didn't want to pay whatever price it was set at, doesn't make it ok just to take it for free. If you are going to pirate a game you obviously want to play it, without the option to pirate it, I'd assume at some point most people that pirate it would eventually pay some amount of money to play it. People don't just pirate shit they hate and play it because it's free.
A better example would say be, what do you do for a living? Let's say you are an accountant right. You make your livelyhood doing peoples taxes. You charge some amount of money to do this. A second party comes along, and takes the people that might be on the fence or at some point might consider using you to do their taxes and does them for free. Theoretically no one is getting hurt here right? Those people were "never" going to need you to do their taxes. Only maybe your accounting job relies on some of that fringe work that is now being sniped for free. Sooner or later, you have to shut down your office because you can't support yourself alone on people with moral integrity. Swap accountant with game developer and you now see why so many companies get bought out by EA/Activision/Ubisoft and just push easy to sell franchise shit with DLC garbage stacked on it to make a profit. You can thank yourselves for that.
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I have no idea why you are intentionally only reading half of what I said.
I specifically said that "If you know for a fact that you will not buy the game at that price, then pirating it does not deprive anyone of anything". I have no idea how you can take that to mean "people on the fence."
And in your example someone is clearly getting hurt. The accountant is missing out on work. Here there is no such issue. The work never existed, because the guy is never going to buy the game in the first place.
I have seen plenty of people pirate games they cannot afford. And when they can afford it (cause they got money or see the game on sale). they will buy a steam version of it.
Its not a hard concept to grasp. People who refuse to purchase from you are simply not your customers. The DLCs you seem to be defending are one of the reasons people refuse to purchase the games in the first place. Weather they are potential buyers, on the fence, or definite non buyers is for them to decide. Not you.
Personally I feel worse for the companies when they release games cheaper in certain areas so people with lower income can afford them, and people game the system by buying at those prices in other countries as well. If I were a developer, that is gonna hurt me more than piracy from people who have no intention of buying the game.
Piracy is only stealing if the gamer was on the fence or would otherwise buy. In that case, I would never condone piracy. But there are cases, where the sale is never gonna happen. Like if its a guy in China earning $2 a day or whatever, he isn't gonna buy a $100 game. You might argue that he should probably just not play the game at all, but the fact remains if he decides to pirate a game, he is not taking a sale away from the company, because he was never going to be their customer anyway. And if someday the price for the game comes down, and he enjoyed it, he can pay for the game then.
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Wow, just wow...so less consumer protection, more chances of being scammed. Well done Valve.
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In fact it wll not lower but drasticly increase waves of scammers and trades will not be secured so valve will not longer help u if u will get scammed, nice.
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traders will still buy games on sale, and with error on the price, and then trade them one month later for more profit.
people will get scammed for thrusting in a shady trader, like it works whit trading game keys, it was always shady and risky.
it is a dick move from valve, yes; but you should not trade outside of the trade window, and if you do, you know that you can get scammed and do nothing about it.
this will get more people scammed? yes, and it will be their fault, maybe steam REP will be useful again.
it's of course a shitty move by valve, if they really care about people not getting scammed, the 30 day thing should not apply to steam wallet purchases, since with that all sales are final, and you can't charge back.
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but you can charge back your purchase of a wallet funds... So what say some not scrupulous person buy, f.e., $100 of Steam Wallet, buy games cheap on all that, "gift" those away for Paypal - and charge back after all is done? Sure that account will be banned - but what say that same person can't make another one? and one more? and again, and so on... After all - all you need to create new account is a working email, and that's quite easy to produce - a dozen on a whim. And if someone operate with stolen CC info to add a cherry on top of that particular s@@t-sundae...
So tell me - how that new "feature" prevents scammers from scamming and protect unfortunate end-buyers? I don't see how, it only adds more hubris to legitimate trades, and leaves "naive folks" (insert your choice word instead) without even a possibility of getting their ticket ever answered and resolved.
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well, i didn't know you can charge back the wallet found purchase. i assumed that was final, and therefore, every purchase made with those founds where final.
but still, the point is, don't trade outside of the trade window. that was always to rule to be 100% sure of not getting scammed, now is clear that you are risking your ass for doing the paypal then "gift" thing, just don't do it.
yes, that is how trades have worked for some time, and yes i have traded thing this way (not with paypal, but using items and game keys), but it always have been risky. now is riskier, but again, do not trade outside the trade window.
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So... They wanted to stop me (us) from trading with russians (other low price regions). I thought that giving 1-2€ less for a game was better than not buying at all. No problem, I 'll just stick to the bundles then.
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No. This is to stop the credit card chargeback scam.
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Maybe not lose more, but it will hit them as well. They hit trading really bad, most of trades are done not game for game but game for marketable items (like keys). From each item (like key) someone purchase at the market to trade it for games they take 15% cut. If trader then sell part of his keys on market to get wallet to purchase more items for trade they get 15% of it again. They hit trading really bad, they vastly reduce number of keys sells and purchases, they reduce number of transactions they take 15% from, they get less monies ;p
but on the other hand they may think that people will buy all these games for more from their own regions if it's that harder to trade for them, and from any store purchase they take 30% ;p
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That's why, from now on, if the price is the same I'll be buying from GMG/Gamersgate/Humble Store/Amazon/wherever else. They don't want my money? I'll gladly give it somewhere else.
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If they couldn't buy giftable copies, there wouldn't be any trading. You can choose to add giftable copy to inventory or instantly send it.
Some games do restricts gifting (esp. multi-packs 4-pack), but there's a trick which let's bypass this, which Valve still hasn't patched after years. (Supposedly buy row-from-russia exploit was recently patched)
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it's not known for how many days as store was just giving the error when they were trying to buy giftable copies - after contacting support they got a response they got trade locked and support doesn't know why it shows error instead of trade lock information.
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probably there are, but I did not dig into it - just happened to be chatting in few chats the day it happened - and there's been quite a few russians talking about it how they got locked as well as other russians they know. Also strangely enough other CIS regions were not affected (at least one Ukrainian checked and confirmed he could still buy giftable copies). I wasn't inducting my own investigation of the matter, especially as these were not some random ppl, but known traders and SG users, like top contributors witk over 10k CV, all people I've traded with dozen times in the past, so yeah - I took what they were discussing on a face value ;)
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I wonder if this is in preparation of steam wallet (money) trading?
It would be trading more accessible and thus add to losses when Valve has to refund wallet funds which scammed has already moved on to Paypal etc.
I guess this can shift trading focus to in-game items. Which might be intended move by Valve.
Valve seems to be working on making it easier for games to have steam tradeable items. Currently they require devs to provide their own itemserver according to steam specs.
This is something that very few games have used, but could be huge thing done right.
My two cents. It still sucks thought.
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Lol @ all the people who are angry because they can no longer make as much profit off pricing errors. "Fuck you Steam! Let me abuse you!"
I get the aggregation for people who trade a lot, because this does seem like it will slow things down dramatically, but this is a good thing for a lot of people. You won't have to worry about doing a legitimate trade and having your game revoked.
The argument that this is a bad thing solely because now you have to use the gift window and get scammed makes no sense, because you do not in any way have to use the gift window to trade. If you lack patience, and choose to take the risk of gift-trading, then you must accept the chances of being scammed.
That being said, 30 days seems kind of long.
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This probably leads to MORE profit from price mistakes, since there's no big flood. That assumes you live in affected regions.
This doesn't kill trading, since you can still send as gifts, but makes rep more important as Valve doesn't support trading outside Window.
Probably some traders gonna quit and thus margins increase.
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Now look at it from a buyers perspective. Most people buy games during the sales when sellers sell them cheaper. I doubt anyone is gonna wait 30 days to buy them at full price after the sales have ended and the price has gone back up.
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I got a high rep too, but that won't help me in getting my games cheap during sales. I have to build myself a network of trusted friends with access to cheap games.
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So every single RU game forever is now region locked?
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not every, only new ones - games that came before this change and were not locked before are still not locked now. But what changed is that before any new game was by default region free and publisher could choose to region lock it, now everything added to steam is region locked by default and publisher MAY contact Valve to ask them to lift region block. So we will see some games region free from publishers that dirtectly wish for them to be region free, but yeah - most of new games will be locked.
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Well, to be honest, most of my trades involve me paying first in paypal and sometimes even keys, so it doesn´t change much. But one has to be more careful now.
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If anything, I could see ST gaining a 'intermediary' feature that can be trusted.
That is: both person A & B give their items to be traded to a neutral trustworthy party and then the intermediary will make sure the trade is guaranteed and happens.
BUT! This whole idea would again be shot to hell with people charging back gift purchases...
... I am glad I do not trade in giftables or keys and I stick with trading bundled games.
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That won't work despite it being a good plan, here's why:
Other sites have tried the "middleman" function as well but in the end the only person who keeps getting in trouble despite not profiting from the trades is the middleman, if something goes wrong that person can easily waste a couple of hours.
ST is broken and abandoned, I did have some hope for STv2 (the upcoming update) but despite multiple functions still missing from the beta the only thing the community keeps crying about is CV, i've seen a few ST related suggestions come by and noone cared/commented not even staff yet the frontpage of suggestion is filled with people bitching and moaning about keeping CV in place and how to replace it, so yeah no hope that STv2 will be improved even in the slightest.
ST has no real mods, there's only 1 person around who handles ST related tickets, since all 3 of my tickets haven't been resolved despite being 4-6 months old you can assume there's no way new middlemen can be identified/verified.
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as for tickets - few months old ticket is burried so many pages below current ones that there's 0% chance for it to ever get resolved. if you don't get a response in a month feel free to bump any ticket, then do so monthly as well - if you really wish for them to even get resolved. Suggested a long while ago by one of the mods. It's not a solution to not enough number of mods, but it gives you the slightest chance to get the matters ever resolved.
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Thanks for taking the effort but I'm already aware of that, I've bumped it multiple times after the 4 month mark as suggested by rinarin yet it seems to be useless, I've checked her SG profile a few times this past month and everytime she's been offline for about a day or so so i'm guessing she's rather busy and can't keep up with the tickets as well.
Worst thing is that the -rep tickets aren't that big of a deal at least i'm not being impersonated while i have it yet I do have an open ticket regarding a rather well known SG/ST user that has been permabanned from other trading sites due to being a middleman for known scammers and he can keep doing his thing on ST as long as that ticket is open.
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That could quickly go downhill as well. Weren't some bundles not separable? I think there was at least one bundle from Humble Bundle where you only got one steam key that unlocked a bunch of games instead of multiple keys that unlocked multiple games.
If people don't complain about this, I foresee a slippery slope incoming.
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Yet another BS restriction, which wouldn't even exist, if we could finally let go the 20. century business model with all the physical regional borders, which doesn't exist in the Internet.
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So gift trading is as dangerous as key trading now. GG valve
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"All new games purchased as a gift and placed in the purchaser's inventory will be untradable for 30 days. The gift may still be gifted at any time. The only change is to trading.
We've made this change to make trading gifts a better experience for those receiving the gifts. We're hoping this lowers the number of people who trade for a game only to have the game revoked later due to issues with the purchaser's payment method."
Source
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