Hey all!

EDIT: I am now going to run giveaways with help of Playing Appreciated, Actually Playing games and BLAEO groups. I will also make whitelist giveaways and specifically state that my giveaways are not just for getting some free cards. Thank you all for hundred of replies, now I have a clear understanding of what is going on SteamGifts.

I am slightly disappointed in running game giveaways on this site.
I've given away 50 keys of my game several times and usually my game* gets drained of cards through idling bots, with only a few people of those 50 trying to actually play it.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong? Maybe I should some sort of restrictions on my giveaways, so my keys wouldn't go to card farmers?
Or is this website just full of people who just want to sell my game's cards to buy some stupid Rainbow Pony Deluxe CS: GO Butter Knife skins and it's impossible to avoid them?
I don't want to give my game to people who don't plan to play it.

I get it, sometimes you just want to idle cards, because you know you'll never have time to play that game.
O the game is just not interesting to you.

But just idle the game without even trying it for 15 mins? C'mon.
I worked really hard on the game. Then I gave it away for free. Then I want to see people achieve achievements, take screenshots, maybe leave a review or comment, enter leaderboards, anything.
But nope!
After giveaway ends it's dead quiet, I get nothing out of it.

I mean, maybe my game is not good?
But then it doesn't seem like anyone would even try to see if it's bad or good.

So, what the hell?!

End of the vent.


*I am one and only developer of Sector Six. You've probably never heard of it.

7 years ago*

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I wish I could play all the games I have, I really do!

Unfortunately, I don't have the time for it and I have an addiction to DOTA2 (which takes me almost all my free time).

So, I think it's a bad thing to win a game and never play it, but I have a dream about playing every single game I have someday...

7 years ago
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I think I never entered into a giveway made by devs probably because I didn't like the game by the look or it's just not my style but if I ever get interested into a game from a dev, especially if he would appreciate a review or some kind of feedback. I would've definitely play it then

7 years ago
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Maybe make it higher leveled? There are most definitely less "collectors" there. But it's not like there aren't collectors even on level 10... :/

7 years ago
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I would argue that as you get to the really high levels (8-10), the ratio of collectors to non collectors goes up.

7 years ago
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Ah, that's another thing to consider. Thanks!

7 years ago
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Hmm, I don't know.
I once checked all of my winners (I had around 400 different users) and the lower levels almost always hadn't played the game at all while the higher levels played it more. It's not like they always played, but the percentage went from an approximate 10% to a solid 50%.

Why would you argue that the ratio goes up though?

7 years ago
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Well, the libraries of most very high level users, and their number of wins per month, tend to be a lot bigger than that of low-mid level users, with many high level users having & winning far more games than they can possibly play.

7 years ago
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I guess that's true. My evidence is very anecdotal as well, so just because I saw my results as one thing, doesn't mean that it actually isn't the other .)

7 years ago
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Well, there might be truth to both of our statements. While we do get a very high degree of game collectors at the top, we also do get people who don't just collect games for the sake of collecting, but also play some of them.

7 years ago
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All the comments already lectured about how it is and stuff...

[snip]
broke af

7 years ago*
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You should edit your post before support sees it. You're not allowed to ask for games, it counts as begging, and will get you suspended.

7 years ago
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I was saying it as more of a joke, but better safe than sorry I guess :/

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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I definitely will, Jesus.

7 years ago
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may have been mentioned already, but unless you've chugged your game full of DRM, theres a good chance a % of winners may be playing offline, and thus, you arent seeing anything at your end from them in terms of time played etc,

EDIT: i do mean a % - and not a big one, maybe 5-10%

7 years ago
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Offline players are the dark matter.
In theory they should exist, but there's no way to prove it =P

7 years ago
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Well, I exist, and I'm pretty well known for playing offline more than not (though generally I leave Steam open on my laptop- I don't mind having messaging open somewhere, I just hate sudden pop-ups and alerts while gaming). It's pretty easy to prove my habits, the question is whether the proof would be sufficient enough for you. ( As a quick example of that, compare the gametime I have on online-only/multiplayer-based games to that of offline games I own (of which most only have visible gametime due to idling requirements) )

Though, honestly, I've been playing games a lot more in online mode of late. Heck, in replaying Tomb Raider, I actually decided to intentionally play it in online mode, just so I'd show some playtime on it (y'can glance at my profile right quick to figure out what that's a relevant consideration). Pity about the multiplayer achievements, or it might have been the only game I would actually have tried for Steam achievements on.

That said, I'm one of only a small handful people I know who intentionally play offline (as a way of excluding the world to focus on a game, or for privacy considerations), and while I know several more than that who regularly play offline 'cause of travel and internet access considerations, overall I think such approaches still fall to a rather small overall minority- enough, at least, that it shouldn't really affect your expectations much (especially with SG winners, where odds are far more highly in favor of users avoiding play altogether).

7 years ago*
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Dang that really sucks. All my suggestions have already been suggested by others. Raising the level might help. There are two groups that may be perfect for you. "Playing Appreciated" groups rule is that whoever wins has to play the game within a month. "Actually playing games" allows you to set a time by which you want your game played. Not sure if the groups are still accepting people or not.

I never idle games since cards are not really important to me. I only enter for games that I will eventually play no matter what.

I wish you luck in finding a solution!

7 years ago
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There's sadly a bit of a "it's free so I should hoard it" mentality here, and with dev giveaways, which are often viewed as completely free (did not cost anything for anyone), it's doubly so. And with the amount of, well, quite frankly trash games that often show up among the dev giveaways, you know the kind that only exists because it has cards, people seem to sadly often view dev giveaways in that light. Your game, sitting at 30 positive and 3 negative, reviews looks like a proper game that you put some effort into, but with dev giveaways, it's a stigma that's hard to shake.

I do hope more people end up playing your game, and that you can find some good way to promote it. Why not do a small forum giveaway for it? Forum goers tend to at least be a bit more keen on at least looking at the game (even if things could still be a lot better here).

7 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 5 years ago.

7 years ago
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Thanks again for the game, Zuurix, and sorry for being a factor of your disappointment. However, at least the GA I won it from is just two weeks ago. While you of course want to get feedback and improve the game fastly, for most users it's right now only +1 for the back log (even if they intend to play it). For me personally I didn't have actually time to play on weekdays last week and the weekend wasn't all about gaming (gladly or sadly? Hmm..), too.

But I've checked serveral games I won here today, and that included yours. It seems to be fun, however, before the next session I really should read that ship building guide. First I had thought that the ship building provides freedom regarding the form, but that parts should stick together. Nonetheless I was able to distribute the parts all over the table leading to a ship that had a really curious hit box.
Also it seemed to me that one could dismantle all parts (even if you need at least one of the part type).

7 years ago
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No need to sorry, I understand that you don't have much time to play games.
The problem is people who don't intend of ever playing my game.

You can do anything with the ship, through it is recommended to keep ship compact.
And you can dismantle everything, but don't do that =P

7 years ago
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Didn't win the game from you, but gave it a quick go today. I quite like the dark silhouette style of the ships. I'm looking forward to playing again later.

7 years ago
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Yes. Slowly.

7 years ago
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There's a play appreciation group where people who join will have the intention of playing the game within a month. Maybe try there.

7 years ago
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Heh, 10 people have launched Sector Six since I created this discussion.

The intention of this discussion was not force winners - who apparently saw this thread somehow - to play Sector Six, but I appreciate it very much!

7 years ago
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Back in the days, the market mostly consisted of AAA games. That has changed. It is (well, was) not only Steam Greenlight, but technology. Nowadays every single person has the possibility to create a game. All by themselves. 1 developer can make 1 game.
Due to this, the market is drowning in the sheer number of games that are available out there. It is quantity over quality. And games are cheap. Sometimes, ridiculously cheap.
My game library consists of a ridiculously large number of games that one needs approx. 2 full lifetimes to actually complete all of them. Impossible.
So what I do is: I play every single one of my games. Sometimes, if it is not to my liking, I only play for 10 to 15 minutes. This is the most amount of time a game nowadays has to suck me in. Because if it fails to do this, there are a bazillion of other games waiting to be played.
And with the sheer amount of games, it takes time to even start a game. Full time job, max 2 hours per evening to test games, 10 to 15 minutes per game equals 8 to 12 games per day. At a maximum. With a backlog of over 6000 games... You do the math.
I plan to play all my games when I'm retired, tho ;)

7 years ago
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10-15 minutes is exactly what I ask for from my winners =]

7 years ago
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I recommend this steam group. You have to play the game at least average time.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/playing-appreciated

7 years ago
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I see many people recommended Playing appreciated. It is a good idea, but keep in mind that technically so far that experiment is somewhere between a failure and a colossal failure, because according to their own site stats, they are still, to this day, keep kicking out people for non-played wins—which make up third of the games given out there. For a 500-person group, this is pretty damn abysmal.

Granted, it is still a lot better than the site average. To answer your initial question: yes, most of the user base, regardless of levels, enters giveaways only to win and never actually intends to play the game. Additionally, at least 90% of the people never read your description if you say something there; this percentages goes as high to 99% depending on level (level 0) or location (South-Americans).

This, of course, counts in the at least 11000 users of the AutoJoin bot, the additional thousands using those bots which are not public, and the tens of thousands using some of the many one-click-entry method users (of which several methods were released to the public in these forums). The bots enter anything and everything, and you are lucky if they at least activate the game on their account to card-farm it, instead of selling it instantly.
Then again, in your case, the latter should be better, as the buyer at least may show some inclination to play the game.

Using higher levels rarely pays off, considering level 2 already means 1% of the user base, level 6 means less than 0.1%. I have to add though that so far I show the largest playing rates in the mid-range: level 5-7. Lower levels like to hoard for wins/G2A market material, higher levels hoard for large library.
Groups have been mentioned already.
Whitelist is a thing, but in your case it is, frankly, easier to just send the keys directly to anyone you would put on a whitelist. You cannot gain anything on this site sending them using a giveaway, so why not cut out the middleman?

Still, in the end, if you want feedback, then this site is just barely a step up from doing a public 10k keydrop. This site is only good to promote the game's existence, that is all.

7 years ago
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Thanks for helping me to understand what's going on SteamGifts.

I am still going to try out Playing Appreciated and other methods on SteamGifts, to see what works for me.

I will also try going to places where people don't expect getting games for free. For example, GameJolt forums.
If you know good sites for such experiment, please let me know.

7 years ago
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I am not discouraging you from PlayingAppr, I just want you to know that it only increases your odds a bit, nothing more.

I am also encouraging you to experiment with whatever comes to your mind. This site is actually a fertile ground for gaming-related social experiments (and sometimes for generic social experiments).

Most of my played wins came from directed giveaways, meaning I sent out hidden object games to the dedicated HOG fan group. (It got bigger as people who enter any group with giveaways came, meaning it is now full of bots as well but still, the core works, more or less.) In your game's case, I would look up shmup and maybe bullet hell oriented groups like these:
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/shmups
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/shmupcom

7 years ago*
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First of all, the correct phrasing seems to be that 1/3 of games go to people that get kicked. Considering the prevalence of unplayable bundle trash in IndieGala et al., I don't really see this as a problem.
What predominantly permits so many wins is the use of autojoining as well as insufficiently strict rules, i.e. way too lax and constantly diluted playing requirements. For example, the maximum "min playtime" a game can have is 5 hours, and that's laughable when 2-4 hours of idling are the norm. If this was set to 10 or 15 hours, some bad apples that continually pretend-play could be spotted earlier.
You also don't have to play if you can join via a gibmaker's whitelist and the GA creator doesn't specifically demand the PAers on his WL to play (which promotes autojoining).

I wouldn't agree that you could call PA a failure, it made a lot of decent SG users play a lot of decent games. Seems to achieve its goals in that regard.

tl;dr: not failure; too lax rules; many awful games and some hard to track ones (no achievements and especially no statistics); GA creators are at least as much to blame as "the group"

7 years ago
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Sad to hear how people are focused on cards and just enter gibs for a few cents steamwallet... maybe they don't know how to make bitcoin... :P

Good to hear that you don't give up on it and will try it again on Playing Appreciated groups... going to join them in the next weeks, maybe im lucky enough to get hands on your game... :)

7 years ago
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if it's from my wishlist, I'll definitely play it.

7 years ago
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I'll be honest, I'm more of a collector at this point as most games really don't hold my attention anymore. Either they're too long (like the Witcher), or they just aren't well made (like every Digital Homicide game). I find myself playing more older games than anything else, and prefer games I can either play with my gf or pickup and play afew round then put down again and have fun. Sure, I'll run a couple of longer games with story if I'm invested in it already, but with my irl issues right now, I really just don't have the time or energy to do so for every last game. If your game intrigues me, I'll give it a 30 minute test run if I win it in a giveaway or find it in a bundle or good enough of a sale (no money to buy games XP inbetween jobs and about to go off to Uni), but if it's really not something I find interest in, then I'll maybe enter a giveaway for it, but it'll be on my backlog and I might run it if I have nothing else I'm interested in playing at the moment.

I'll be honest, looking at your game, it looks up the alley of the pickup and play for a session or two while I'm waiting on stuff. And if I did enjoy it past 30 minutes of play, then I would even probably stream it on nights my gf is busy or I can't get to sleep and she's already out XD Speaking of which, I really need to make some content for my YouTube and get back to streaming XP been a month since I've done anything, And i'm still getting 5-20 views a day on that stupid Minecraft benchmark parody video I made (I swear, I regret making that thing, it was a joke to get something on my channel and people take it too serious and try to give me crap in the comment @-@).

If you'd like to shoot me a key, I could try out your game and leave you some feedback XD just be warned, I give my own team hell and nitpick a lot on things. Thankfully they are good natured and actually are interested in my thoughts :P

7 years ago
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If you'd like to shoot me a key, I could try out your game and leave you some feedback XD

This is considered begging. Take this as a your first and only warning.

7 years ago
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Soooooo, saying my honest opinion and what I personally do with games I get, then saying I would give a try out on the devs game if they liked, is begging? Considering I honestly don't care regardless if he were to give me a key, but only offered to check out his game if he wanted, I am not begging. But if you want to see it that way, that's your prerogative and choice, but maybe try reading things into context and don't confuse begging with offering in the future?

7 years ago
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Guidelines:

Do not ask users or developers for keys or gifts, whether in comments, chat, or outside the site.

Pretty clear on this. This is not my prerogative nor choice, but the rules of the site.

7 years ago
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Well, I do take issue with SG thinking they can dictate what I can do outside of their site, especially seeing as content creators actively ask devs for keys in email as it is their job, and it's no of SG's business what I do off their site.

And again, I'm not asking, I'm saying "if you'd like to shoot me a key", not "would you shoot me a key". Again, read the context, and the actual sentence, you will find I don't even nearly tread on this rule as asking and offering are opposites. If anything, playing this game would take time out of my day that I could be spending on things I want to do otherwise, so this would be more paperwork than anything else for me.

7 years ago
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Arguing semantics or your interpretation of the rule will not make a difference. The rule still stands, regardless of supposed circumstances. You have keymailer and private e-mails, and I recommend you stick with them for you career as a content creator.

I'm ending this here for we have derailed this thread far enough.

7 years ago
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Nice to see that you found possible solution - hope it's gonna work. But in case if you need more ideas i'll add something.

I added this game to "hide all giveaways for" list because after checking I saw that it's Shoot 'em Up and I simply don't like this genre (tried few of them but I gues it's not for me)..

So maybe there are groups for Shoot 'em Up lovers?

7 years ago
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By banning shoot 'em ups, you miss out of games that aren't traditional shoot 'em ups, e.g.: Sector Six. It's more like Diablo-clone with with a few shoot 'em up mechanics.

But yes, I'll look for groups that play similar games to Sector Six, it's a good idea.

7 years ago
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Frankly, I think that may actually be a reason why even Shoot 'em Up aficionado may avoid the game- regardless of any other design considerations, the core gameplay is pretty straightforward shoot 'em up- and yet, at the same time, that "diablo-clone" emphasis dilutes the polished, precise design that the best Shmups have (gameplay videos I've watched show players blasting their way through basic opponents in a way that'd never happen in a traditional shmup, and bosses with very bland attack patterns. Gameplay does seem diablo-like, sure- in the sense that there's a lot of repetitive grind against generic enemies). All in all, it gives the impression of being just another discount shmup with some gimmicks thrown in (and Steam is packed with those). Likewise, the graphics are unusual and not unpleasant, but they otherwise don't especially stand out or ever really draw the eye.

The game just thoroughly seems to lack the complexity and refinement that typically marks a good shmup, and lacks the heart or depth of other design components to carry it outside of that. Starwish, for example, is a pretty straightforward, simple shmup, but it has plenty of heart, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. Finally, you lack co-op, which is generally the final option for redeeming a shmup.

Your game may not be bad- that's not the issue here- but it just doesn't have any obvious draw to it, anything which openly stands out and attracts players to wanting to play it. Perhaps that's simply an issue with how you're marketing the game- perhaps all you need to do is put up videos highlighting the more interesting parts of the game.. 'cause currently, those aren't showing through [by my perspective].

7 years ago*
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Current trailer sucks, it doesn't really show anything, aside from spaceship building.

Spaceship building alone has - or will have with future updates - enough complexity. There's also modular difficulty system, which basically gives players ability to balance game to make it have perfect difficulty. There's combat with aiming, timing, shields, mine detonating, piercing lasers, destructible enemy weapons... There's abilities with their varied effects. There's dynamic map. There will be part sets, end game content, more replay-able bosses, concealed regions and so on.

"Oh it's an indie game and it's not popular, so it's probably generic gimmicky game" is not the best attitude to approach Sector Six.

Starwish has heart, Sector Six has everything else >=]
I actually finished Starwish.

7 years ago
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I always do, sooner or later. For example, I ended up playing Brutal Legend two years after getting it as a gift (I didn't win it on steamgifts, it was just a gift). Other games, I play them immediately. It depends on the game and many other factors. But some others, like Black Sails and Life is Feudal: Your Own (that I won here), were completely broken and I couldn't manage to play them, even though I tried. Other games were a complete piece of sh*t and I stopped playing them really fast after starting them, because I thought they were good and I ended up getting bored and angry by them. And other games, I started playing them a bit and then completed them after a long time or will complete them in the future. For example, I had played a bit of Fire (a game that I won here), but I didn't like it in the beginning, so I stopped playing it, but started playing it again after some time and eventually completed it.

7 years ago
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I try to play the ones I win, but admittedly I haven't got through them all.

Your game Sector Six does look pretty interesting though. I genuinely mean that. Wishlisted and I would definitely consider it.

7 years ago
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=]

7 years ago
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I really don't get why (almost?) none of your winners played the game. It looks nice and has a clean interface.
Even if its main gameplay part is a standard sidescroller shootemup (atleast that's what it looks like on the store page) it's nice to look at and I'm sure really worth a try.
Nice to see you found your solution - good luck on getting useful feedback! :3

7 years ago
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Following up on my earlier comment, I played (and streamed) Sector Six. I will play a bit more and write up a review in a few days. I will say that while streaming, I had a few random viewers pop in for a time that are not regular followers. Not sure how much it will impact your game/visibility overall, but there's something!

For now, I will say that I really enjoyed it, though it is quite challenging! There's so much to play around with in terms of customization that my first session was far from enough to see what the game has to offer overall. Good work!

Thanks for venting and bringing attention to this game that I should have paid more attention to in the first place.

7 years ago*
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Cool =]

7 years ago
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