There should be rules for games having achievements on the store?
Why what?
Achievements are just an extra and they will never hurt anyone, also there are people that like to complete these games with more than 1k achievs. Like Sa6peto said, this is just a marketing strategy even if it is ridiculous in this case and people will buy this game just because of that, thats why i said that Valve should moderate these games/devs.
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Yes, definitely. Maximum of 200 achievements would be good, and no tolerance for those achievements that are unachievable just for the sake of messing with completionists. Also no achievements that require you to play the game at a certain time and then later becomes impossible to achieve (example achievement: Played the game during Early Access). Those are just to name a few I've always been thinking about.
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Also no achievements that require you to play the game at a certain time and then later becomes impossible to achieve (example achievement: Played the game during Early Access).
Yeah, those are so stupid. "Oh, you're a completionist but didn't find this game in early access? Too bad for you..."
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Nah, the devs should be able to decide how many achievements their game deserves.
The achievements are not obligatory, you can choose not to do them. The OP's image could be a joke that the devs thought it was intrinsic to the enjoyment or the experience of the game.
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There was that other game that did literally the same few months ago .
Zup 3 /4 ... one of those .
I do think that this is a Brilliant marketing strategy , targeted towards the people who want to write stupid shit in their profiles on steam .
I voted yes on your poll , even tho i dont really care about achievements .
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They could do something like 15 achievements per dollar, so if a game will cost 10$ it can have 150 achievements max, this can prevent abuse, and if your game is long enough to feature a lot of achivemeents I guess it should worth more than 1 or 2 bucks.
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I gave up on Steam Achievements the moment they introduced Greenlight. The Store is infested with trash games. I don't even bother launching Steam anymore. I used to have it in my start up, not anymore. Instead of going forward with their client, they are killing it.
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Honestly - who cares?
Achievements are useless anyway.
And some people feel better if they have +1k achievements more and one more game 100% ed. This increases their e-penis or just make them feel better. Who am I to judge - If achievements are the only selling point for that games and it's working - so why not.
Also some of that games simply help to customise your profile. I remember when I tried to write something with letters from achievements and found out that I have only one needed letter xD Some of those games have all letters + numbers as achievements.
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It's for the fun if you know what I'm talking about
I'm ex-achievement hunter and what can I say - achievements have nothing to do with fun. Maybe some of them. But when I remember my way to get 100% in rabbit hole... I think that it was heavier job than my actual job. Or achievements that needed useless 100h long grind... I was more and more focused on getting 100% completion than actual having fun... to the point when I quit gaming for some time xD
And when I see as my friends in activity get more achievements in 2 hours then I got in 4-5 years of gaming... well - it's really enlightening.
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And I think that watching 22 people running after a ball for 90 minutes whilst occasionally pretending to be in pain is the most boring thing ever, yet football (or soccer if you will) is the most popular sport in the world. Your obsession with achievements which resulted in bad experience doesn't mean it's not fun for other people. I think it's for people to decide what they like.
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lol
playing game that gives you 1000 achievements for 1h of playing is most boring thing ever, yet those games are quite popular. Your obsession with "legit" achievements doesn't mean it's not fun for other people. I think it's for people to decide what they like.
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Nice canned response not connected with what I said in any way... I almost feel like I was talking with steam support xD
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Yeah I'm sorry about that, I really wanted to continue this enlightening conversation in which you are so skillfully dodging my point but I really have no idea what were you trying to say with the previous post so I gave up. I shouldn't respond, I really do regret it now. I mean I don't even know what did you meant by "legit" achievements, or what did you even try to insinuate.
But now since you responded with this bullshit I have to at least understand what this was all about.
1) You're saying that achievements are pointless and no fun, because you had no fun.
2) I'm saying that people should decide what they like and saying "it's no fun" is purely your subjective view.
3) ... and then you're saying what? Something about legit achievements? Help me with this one please.
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Either my/your writing skills are bad or I/you have problem with understanding what you/I wrote. Or both - but I'll try to explain.
1.) useless =/= pointless. You can't buy new games for them. But you can have some entertainment while getting them. Although it's not always "fun". My experience with achievement addiction was just example for that.
2.) I'm saying the same.
3.) For some reason I thought that you are against those cheap achievements (like +10 for simply opening lvl). "Legitimate" achievements are in comparison those that actually requires achieving something to get them. Just wanted to use what you write to prove that people can like whatever they want.
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1.) useless =/= pointless. You can't buy new games for them. But you can have some entertainment while getting them.
I agree! But that's what I was pointing out all along. They're not meant to be useful. They are a feature of a game. Just like a score, challenge modes, speedrunning etc. achievements and completion is just another way how to play a game and you can't say (direct quote): "achievements have nothing to do with fun" as that is only up to player to decide. There's no right way to have fun playing games. Each to their own.
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Then you're the person that is the problem here. You're in the group of the "e-penis" people.
I personally like that achievements are a way to diversify your gameplay style and also a way to add extra challenge.
Only masochists like the "kill 1,000,000 enemies with your bare fists" achievements. Those are usually considered as bad achievements.
Example: I wouldn't have thought to eat a Warlord with a Graug if there hadn't been an achievement for it.
I wouldn't be using all the guns during my current Bioshock Infinite playthrough.
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Yup - but luckilly that is past. I needed short break from games, then I played few with no achievements at all and I can say that I'm recovered :D
Now I play for fun :) I still pay some attention to achievements but I wouldn't play Van Helsing for additional 100 boring hours only to get last achievo.
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No, limiting achievements is just a silly idea. Want to stop crap like this? Get to the root of the problem which is greenlight.
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Well... RIP achievement hunting I guess. Honestly I was only ever chasing those 100s for myself, but it felt good to have a high number of completed games and achievements. Now anyone with 5 dollars can get more achievements than me in less than 5 hours. Oh well. I guess if I don't want to play these dumb games then I'm just going to have to accept. But I wish valve would stop letting developers use achievements as a selling points for their otherwise 'worse than mobile' games.
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I don't even know what the point of achievements are or why people care about them, same with cards, badges, skins, and steam level. What ever happened to playing games to enjoy the game?
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I think that some achievements can improve the gaming experience.
If they are well made, they can push players to do things they wouldn't normally, giving them the chance to enjoy other aspect of the game, seeing it under a new perspective (I'm thinking about those "do a speed/stealth/pacifist/whatever run", "kill everyone in a floor/level only with this/that weapon", "solve this puzzle with the minimum number of required moves", even some exploring ones like "find all those things" and silly ones like "do something that doesn't fit the game", and many other creative ways to approach a game); they should also optional imho, stuff that you do other than the "storyline". (Hope I made myself clear.. it's not always easy to explain yourself in another language)
Most of times though, achievements aren't really made with a gamer mentality but with a seller one.
They take advantage of that "I made it!" feeling players get and stretch it beyond belief.
Seems like they don't care if you enjoy the game or not, they just want you to play their game as long as possible and use those grindy achievements to obtain so.
I can't believe they publish a game where you, for example, kill ~1k enemies in a single playthrough and put as achievement "kill 10k enemies" without giving you any way to differentiate the following playthroughs. That's just boring.
And while this can be liked by 1% (perhaps even less) of the players, I think they get the opposite effect doing this.
I used to struggle to unlock every achievement but it's for devs like the latters that I stopped, because I have better things to do than spending who-knows-how-many hours on such products.
EDIT: sorry, your comment made me want to reply but now I've realized that I may have digressed a bit =P
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I feel like the reason most developers put achievements in games is the same reason why the games have cards and steam has levels, it makes them money. People are naturally competitive and it's very addictive to do something better than other people and then display it on your account for others to see. I feel like that is the main purpose of achievements, badges, cards, and steam levels.
I don't mind when I do something out of the ordinary in a game and an achievement pops up recognizing what I did, but I don't like the achievements that seem like they were put there just to keep you in the game longer or to get people that are basically addicted to collecting them to play that game.
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I don't care if they like the same stuff I do or not, I just think it's dumb to play Steam instead of playing the games on Steam. They call themselves gamers yet they don't play games, they play social media.
Edit: That is one of the reasons Steam if becoming full of garbage games, because people are buying them, not to play, but to get cards, achievements, badges, and steam levels to play the Steam social media game of my account is bigger than yours.
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Although those things are not mutually exclusive and you can enjoy playing games without any artificial motivation tacked on and also like cards and the other stuff I mostly agree with your sentiment :)
Edit: I started writing this reply about nine hours but got distracted by work so I may be a bit late to the party, so to speak :P
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The one good thing Steam has left is that they consider themselves an "open" store. So arbitrary and childish rules like "YOU CAN ONLY HAVE X ACHIEVEMENTS IN YOUR VIDEO GAME" won't happen. Because it's fucking stupid.
Some people love rules I guess. For whatever reason.
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I used to defend the idea of an open store in the past. But just with anything, it can get too far. It's just not sustainable anymore.
Developers used to care about this, and put time into integrating actual good achievements into their game.
But Valve just doesn't seem to care anymore.
Well, if I were running a store, I would care about the quality of the stuff being sold.
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Games that have achievements for online game play, I hate that. I mean, within a year or two most of its online user base decreases, making participation on online events tough. It happened me with Project cars and Tomb Raider(Probably has aged too much, I mean 4 years).
I guess that's just issues for late buyers/players. I mean the developers must put some incentives for online players for playing it on time and for buyers of dlcs.
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Yes, it really sucks with some achievements. And other achievements are just plain broken, happened more than enough.
So, the whole achievement system ideas was never without any flaws, but trash games like this, it's not even trying anymore.
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I know, these kind of developers are ruining the experience of the game. I know some might say who the hell cares about the achievements, it doesn't add anything to the game.. just enjoy the game, well, the achievement does add something more to it, such as playing a game with other strategies/methods normally you wouldn't have... exploring game's universe to find easter eggs... increasing the adventure and skills of the player.
I haven't till now faced such games with useless achievements, but I have heard there are many others like giving multiple achievement for same things for every event in the game. If it counts I had experience with one game, catacomb explorers, with just one achievement in the game, "Install the game, Start the game and voila you've earned 100% achievement for the game".. pretty much useless. What's so much adventurous or exciting about it.
Achievement works as a incentives to the user for trying new things such as strategy/difficulty/skills, but if its like press any key 1000 times in a row that's too repulsive, the developers are not making the players enjoy the game they are making them slaves.
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I'd personally say this:
0-5 hours in length: up to 50-75 achievements
5-10 hours: up to 100 achievements
10-25 hours: up to 150 achievements
25-50 hours: up to 200 achievements
50-whatever hours: up to 250 achievements
I'm fine if a game uses achievements as "instant gratification" as long as it's not too far gone. It shouldn't be "Start up game, 3 achievements"
But it could easily be "make 10 kills with x weapon" or such. Nothing too difficult, but at the same time still requires you to do something.
I've personally played all of the Zup! games and I've also played Pain Train. I personally had fun with Pain Train, no joke. Zup was also interesting for me, since I'm bad at puzzle games, but it's pretty simple for me, a person that's got the IQ of a donkey.
That's just my opinion though. Give them an allowance of achievements and let them do what they want with it.
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But how would you decide how long a game is? Do the devs submit that (in which case they can just lie to put more achievements in)? Do you look at the avarage playing time (in which case this system won't really work, since achievements are put in before players actually play it)? Do you pay someone to play through the entire game to decide how long it is?
It's incredibly hard (if not impossible) to determine game length before submitting it to the store. It's not really something that can be automated either.
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I'd say they should play it through around 1 week before release.
The more known devs like Ubisoft and 2K shouldn't have to go through it, but the small indies should definitely should.
So, the system could be that they send keys to more prestigious, hand-picked (at first) Steam accounts that are willing to play it through. Since most people play differently and in different timeframes, then they might just have to either take the median gametime or the average gametime.
A little bit later they can automate it, like they did with the CS:GO's Overwatch system.
As to how they'd find the users, I'd get them from sites like AStats, where there are more... dedicated gamers.
If you think this might be too insane, then consider that Valve is already developing a plan similar to this for the "fake games" that are littering the store. They're also planning to pay those people with keys and small amounts of Steam wallet.
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Absolutely-Positively agree.
They really need to crack down on these achievement whoring games.
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I don't really care.. but it's just such a waste of an otherwise good idea.
Achievements don't make any game good, obviously. But good Achievements make a good game even better.
A lot of games have clever achievements that are fun to play for, but stuff like this just makes the whole achievement system even more pointless.
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i don't really care about number of achievements, i just would like that devs avoid unreachable achievements or super repetitive achievements.
Or instead of achievements system, i would prefer a steam integrated system for us to mark games completed, it would help a lot not completionists but backlog hunters or just those who want to try to finish some games.
That's right there are steam categories but last time i reinstalled steam i lost all categories so a steam integrated system with cloud sync seems nicer. Just a check box next to a game for example.
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Ah thanks a lot ! :D
i didn't know there was a way to do that at least manually.
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I don't understand why people have to 100% some games they don't even have fun playing any more. You could be playing other games! Even worse are games where you have to pay to get the achievements because you have buy DLCs. Or one game where you had to donate money to the dev to get an achievement. I can't remember which one that was. But that certainly shouldn't be allowed.
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I love achievments, I always hunt for the rare ones.
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It's just another way for asset-flippers/shovelware artists to sell stuff without anyone having to put in any effort.
And this way, you won't even have to dump the keys for free anywhere you can, because people will actually pay if you set the price at a dollar.
It works simply because the Achievement showcase for Steam profiles exists. There's enough people who get satisfaction on being able spell our their name with icons on their profile page, or by just having some stupidly big number there.
And of course, if sheer quantity isn't enough by itself, you can always come up with other insane ways to abuse the system
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Or your view on those things just changed. Sales may look like shit now, but that might also be because you own most games you're interested in already or because you don't see the interesting deals because of the sheer amount of games on sale.
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