so what do you think?
7 blacklists so far, only because I said religious beliefs are unreasonable. The sensitivity of religious people is just as ridiculous as their beliefs.
EDIT. 40 blacklists in one thread, that almost feels like an achievement. But it's not, since people get offended to anything and everything nowadays.
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To be fair i appear to have been blacklisted on my first day of joining SG, despite not winning anything or posting any comments
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and you still haven't learned your lesson!
jk. you seem a nice person ;)
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Actually my name is just a mis-spelling. I'm meant to be KnifeguyJon >=)
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ha, you should date our resident Stabbing chicken than ;)
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Well, hello there. I am a fellow knifegirl chicken >:D
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Ah, SG...bringing people together.
And on an argument-type post no less. :D
Just messing. No weirdness intended.
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I need a sidekick for my murder sprees! It gets lonely and too many blacklist hungry people hate me ;-;
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What have you done to spawn their hate? Seems harsh.
It gets lonely wherever you may be, even murderers need the solace of a companion. ;)
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People get annoyed at the constant prodding with sharp objects, I suppose!
Very true, I need a loyal companion! Someone who can delicately and surgically cut people up, yet murderously slice and dice crowds of BLsters in our path :3
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Considering the wording you used I'm not surprised.
"his skygod will"
"He should keep his silly, unreasonable beliefs for himself, instead of constantly mentioning his god on every fucking giveaway."
It makes you look like an arrogant person.
Even scientists can believe in a deity or god.
All he does is write that sentence in GAs, he doesn't force his beliefs on anybody.
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This is funny, you make so many assumptions, I blacklisted you and I'm an atheist/agnostic. You are just acting like an immature person and can't respect others, that is why you are blacklisted.
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You can't be both an atheist and agnostic. Since atheists don't believe a god(s) exists, which is the same as believing a god doesn't exist and agnostics are neutral on the matter claiming they don't know whether god(s) exists or not. You'll have to pick one buddy.
If OP respected others he wouldn't constantly throw his beliefs around on a website that has absolutely nothing to do with religion. If he doesn't respect me I have no reason to respect him.
I respect people's right to believe in whatever they want, but when they constantly wave their beliefs in front of my nose in places that aren't meant for that, then we have a problem.
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Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Never liked or accepted that.
The way I see it:
Atheism = God(s) don't exist
Agnosticism = God(s) may or may not exist
Theism = God(s) do(es) exist
If you follow a religion, but think god might not exist, then you should be in the agnostics camp, aka people who aren't sure. If you don't believe in a god, but say he might exist, again you are in the agnostics camp, aka people who aren't sure.
That's the way I see it, and I don't accept the idea of (a)gnostic (a)theism. But I don't want to argue about it.
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There is no way of disproving the existence of God; in fact, that's the main problem with religion, that it's not falsifiable. Ergo, all atheists are technically agnostics.
However, if you call yourself agnostic about God, you also have to call yourself agnostic about Santa Claus, Zeus, Hera, Russell's teapot, invisible pink unicorns... at some point the word "agnostic" begins to lose all sense. That being the case, I prefer to call myself an atheist (plus, I think taking a firmer stance is better for the zeitgeist).
TL;DR, you can definitely be (and probably are) an agnostic atheist.
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Friendship is magic, unless the other person has different opinions then blacklist the fucker, huh? Ponies would be disappointed, you're a bad pony!
Anyway I won't argue with you. Also I personally identify as reasonist and anti-theist.
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I didn't blacklist you for this. I just thought you were unnecessarily rude to some people on this thread.
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So far that has been the only reason people have blacklisted him, yet he keeps missing it.
Or maybe him too has blind beliefs. maybe it helps him sleep at night thinking only religious people dislike him
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As the Nth atheist agnostic who's blacklisted him eons ago for rudeness, even though i dislike unnecessary drama... he himself once accused me of randomly blacklisting him, while stirring up BL drama in a celebration thread that asked... for no BL drama!
Which is how he got in my BL in the first place, not just by stirring up the said BL drama, but being rude (and i mean downright insulting as usual) to pretty much everyone telling him to be respectful to OP, that he could just walk away and be bigger than that. Not only is it not the first time he missed the point, i fear it won't be the last.
Actual rules aside (because as far as to my knowledge, unlike konrads he abides by those)... if the argument could be made that the annoyance factor in konrads was 3/4 stupidity and 1/4 obnoxiousness, i'd say he's 50-50.
But just my 2 cents. Over and out. ;)
EDIT:
P.S.: Further below, gotta love the hipocrisy. ;D
Even though that's not why he's being blacklisted, he complains about being blacklisted by not agreeing with people's beliefs AND calls people stupid for not sharing his beliefs. Then proceeds to blacklist for the same reason he complains about. Reference.
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I didn't call people stupid for not sharing my beliefs, I called them unreasonable and silly. There is a difference. I did call OP stupid for not being able to read or comprehend what he reads.
And yes, I am well aware that I'm not blacklisted for not being religious (I never even claimed that that's why I'm being blacklisted), but because people are very sensitive and get offended by everything.
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There is no way of disproving the existence of God
Except where the god in question is omnipotent, which is a logical contradiction, which implies that it cannot exist.
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One could argue that faith is something that cannot be proven but religions (as systems) are human made and can thus be presented under proof and verification. So existence of a god or gods might be impossible to be proven but you can point in the logical flaws of the religions.
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There are different versions of atheism and agnosticism so get your facts straight.
So far I can see that you have your own religion and you believe in it and defend it really hard, just like other sheeps do, you want others to convert to your own religion by any means and you do not respect others at all. You are a fanatic, just on the other side.
So immature.
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So if someone wrote wthoc (with the help of Cthulhu) in their comments would you also get upset at them throwing their beliefs around?
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No because I'd know they're not being serious and are saying it as a joke.
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They're still throwing their belief around. That belief being that there is no god, but as you said this is not the site to do that, this site has nothing to do with religion or lack of religion.
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Hmm, you're a clever one. I don't think I can argue with this argument of yours.
Oh wait, I can. Making a joke about false god is not the same as waving your belief or lack thereof, it's just a joke and one making it could believe in anything.
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Hmmm, it appears you blacklisted me, when all I said was that no religion should be judged. Sounds like you're the butthurt one, so I returned the favor. Make that 8 BL's q:
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Many atheists believe the world is being held up by several giant elephants, with a huge turtle supporting all of this on it's back. I consider myself a Christian, and of course - I disagree with that belief, and the Big Bang Theory, but it's not my place to tell someone they're crazy or idiotic for believing something I don't
You made false claims about what atheists believe in, clearly mocking us in a way meant to offend and annoy. Then you went on and said we're crazy and idiotic.
I don't mind religious people not being cool with atheists, but you crossed the line.
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to be fair to both of you in this one
-giant elephant's wut i dont think that is athiests :P?
-He said it's not his place to tell someone they are crazy or idiotic
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Yes, he said it's not his place to say it by actually saying it. That means that is what he thinks of us, just usually refrains from saying it.
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I said MANY atheists, not all. I've studied pretty heavily on regions of the olden days, even took up some collrge classes on world religions, both modern and old. I know my religions fairly well, and I know not all atheists believe in the elephant theory, or the Big Bang. I wouldn't slander atheists in that way, or any way. Although many atheists also criticize religious people and try doing everything in their power to convert religious people to atheism, not all do. Just like not all Christian's protest homosexuality and bomb abortion clinics, and not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all can be held responsible for the actions of a few bad seeds.
And by the way I never said you're crazy and idiotic, I even explicitly stated that I have no room to judge, or tell people their belief system is crazy. I said nobody should judge anyone for their beliefs - regardless. Maybe you didn't read the whole thing, or misunderstood.
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probably more like none. Atheists do not believe in god, or any belief system is non-belief a belief system? The Hindi believe in the World Elephant. Hinduism is one of the world's major religions.
there are other religions that also have a turtle as part of their belief system. It's still part of a belief system, and therefore not atheism
You're thinking of nontheistic religion, not atheism
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Atheistic religions are a thing, but there should be a distinction made between them and nonreligious secularism abd new atheism because it leads to unintelligent conversations like this.
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is non-belief a belief system?
You should look up naturalistic atheism and scientism, new atheism can get pretty religious-like.
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I know the answer, it's more like I'm posing the question for everyone.
Truth is, religion/belief can get very tricky, but, traditionally speaking, there's Theism (belief in god/gods), Animism (reverence of non-human objects), Philosophical Divinity (e.g. Taoism and Confuscianism), and Atheism (rejection of belief systems)
the Indian religions (Sikh, Hindi, Jain, etc.) could be treated as a separate class, but IMO are a combination of Theism and philosophical divinity
With 7 billion people in the world, there are a gazillion variants and combinations around.
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You're seeing something that isn't there.
Why so angry?
Why so hateful?
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So it's ok for you to blacklist someone because you were offended, but if someone blacklists you because they're offended by you they are just being sensitive?
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I think it depends on how offensive someone is. While I did say religious people are unreasonable and that they shouldn't wave their beliefs in front of everyone's nose on websites that doesn't have anything to do with religion I didn't say they're crazy idiots.
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No, instead you called them silly and unreasonable, very different right?
superstition is silly and unreasonable
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I honestly think that calling someone silly and unreasonable is nowhere near as offensive as calling someone a crazy idiot. Do you honestly think that they're equally offensive?
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Yeah, they're both intended to demean someone else.
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LOL HE crossed the line for mocking your beliefs? Wow, pot? kettle?
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Oh well, I hope they feel good about themselves now. I consider it a compliment when someone blacklists me for a stupid reason.
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I'm pretty sure it's not about your lack of belief but the fact that you were an ass about it.
You know, it's not exactly difficult to disagree with someone yet still be respectful.
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I didn't say I got blacklisted due to lack of belief. I didn't even say I lack a belief. I actually have a belief, and it's that gods don't exist.
I said I got blacklisted because I said other people's beliefs are unreasonable. I also did say some rude things later, so now I've been blacklisted by 21 people so far due to this thread.
Anyway you either didn't read my comment properly, or you for some reason decided to pretend I said something I didn't and then comment on that. Either way that's disrespectful from you, which is ironic considering you wanted to give me a lesson about being respectful.
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I guess I should have been more specific and write "your lack of belief in god". What I meant, anyway, is that I don't believe it's the fact that you find other people's beliefs unreasonable that got you blacklisted, but the fact that you've been expressing it in a rude fashion.
I didn't intend any disrespect, I was merely pointing out that you might be misguided about the reason why people are blacklisting you.
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Hahahaha, I whitelisted you thanks to this thread :-D
I already have you on my Steam friend list, because we traded in the past.
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Haha, I whitelisted you because of your comment here as well.
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It is not because of that. It is because you are an ignorant jerk. Comprehension is important. There are a lot of athiests on this thread. I have no problem with any of them, and even whitelisted a couple. It is jerks I have a problem with, not athiests.
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I love how you go out of your way to post on every comment I made, each time being very rude. I told you once and I'll tell you again, calm down buddy, I can't believe how mad and offensive you got over a couple of comments I made.
You keep calling me jerk and other negative things, look at yourself. You're now actually being even worse than me and definitely a lot more abusive.
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I see. It's okay for you to do it, but you don't like it when someone does it to you?
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I said religions are silly and unreasonable. I called MRLW stupid once. That's all I really did when it comes to being rude.
You on the other hand are going out of your way to constantly attack and bash me, replying to almost every post I make with rude remarks. You're calling me a jerk, piece of trash, stupid, piece of crap and what not.
Just take a look at my posts, then take a look at yours. I was mean, but you're being obsessively abusive. You are behaving far worse then I did, you can't argue with that.
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Just a quick glance over your posts in the last few hours.
He should keep his silly, unreasonable beliefs for himself
is equally stupid so I'd still mock him for it.
However while everyone can believe in what they want, superstition is silly and unreasonable and there's no argument that can be made to make it seem otherwise
Are you stupid or something?
ow don't bother replying to my comments until you learn how to read properly.
It has nothing to do with your belief but your lack of reading skills.
Either read what I said and reply based on that, or stop whining like a little child because I offended you.
I could make a point that it's logical to be an asshole.
For example being an asshole can be fun, and if you like fun things then the only logical thing to do is to be an asshole.
Oh look, yet another person with inability to read properly
Unfortunately it seems you have the same issue the OP has. Not only that but you don't know the definition of certain words, such as ignorance. You're a special kind of stupid and I honestly feel bad for you.
Also please learn the definition of the word ignorant so you stop making a fool out of yourself (It's actually funny because since you don't know what ignorance means you're actually being ignorant).
It seems to me like you're describing yourself, not me.
You seem to be the one who's ignorant and who lacks intelligence. And the one who cannot comprehend what's being said
Reason, logic, science, none of those support their nonsense beliefs.
You can't be both an atheist and agnostic.
Making a joke about false god
While I did say religious people are unreasonable
You attack people, you call people names, you insult their intelligence, you mock their beliefs. So don't get mad when someone does it to you. You aren't the special little flower you think you are. Treat people the way you want to be treated. You want to stop with your nonsense and I'll leave you be.
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YES! That's the thread we needed! I feel you but you know... like it's not enough hate on SG already.
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Mehrine (hello if you read me) took his joke too far away and you also contributed to that. Like some people say "is just my way to say thank you, why do you care?" or something like that. Its really that important? You even started a thread about it, wow
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well it is - to me.
i guess you are better then me if you dont make a fuss when some one disrespect you and your beliefs for no reason at all but his own fun.
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Mate, you're drowning on an empty children's inflatable pool.
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I hear over 6000 people are drowned in empty childrens' inflatable pools by Warthogs each year. :/
I mean, that's just a thing I heard.
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Every time I come across a religion thread, this comes to my mind: (attachment)
And of course it's perfectly fine to make fun of ANYTHING in this world. But you must try to make fun of it intelligently.
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No, didn't hear about it, bit it seems like in the same vein.
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Yup, it is. I'm discordian atheist ;-) :-D
If you like to read, then The Illuminatus! Trilogy is great and funny book.
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This thread is dangerously turning into "Should people keep their religion private?", which is absolutely not what the original issue is about.
I haven't really talked here yet, since I thought it would only result in more flameposts. But here's my 2 cents, for whoever is interested in it.
First of all, the concensus seems to be that, whatever I've said, I said it in a dickish way.
My first post was of course on the trolling side. I don't think anyone would argue that posting gifs or images making fun of what a member said is uncommon here, but obviously there's a problem with either this particular post, or with the way I expressed myself afterwards.
For that I'm sorry. I shouldn't have replied to his comment, nor should I have kept replying.
Now, about the belief-part:
I have no problem whatsoever with people saying they are followers of a religion, or agnostics, or atheists. This is not about that.
But when someone says "I hope the God I believe in will help win a video game on SteamGifts", I do find it ridiculous. That's the only thing I've said.
If you create a thread saying "I belive in God", I would say "Cool. Whatever works for you. Maybe there's a higher power. What do I know?"
But if you say "There's a God and he's helping me win gifts here", I really hope I won't be thrown rocks at for saying that it sounds ludicrous.
Feel free to keep throwing rocks at the troll/12-years-old/fucktard/atheist fanatic for having said it in a wrong and unnecessary way though, I do deserve it.
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you do know that saying sorry then using "but..." its actually saying:
"im not sorry but i want you to think i am".
i dont care what you think.
i dont care what you believe in.
i also dont care if you like me or my way to say thanks.
what i do care you took your time to intentionally disrespect, sting and make fun on me and my beliefs - just so you can have fun.
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He can be sorry for one thing but still have his opinion on the other.
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not when its on the same subject - which is his behavior.
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I can't find the "I'm sorry but"-part you're reffering to in my message.
Can you please quote it so I'd know what you are talking about?
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" I shouldn't have replied to his comment, nor should I have kept replying"
"But if you say "There's a God and he's helping me win gifts here", I really hope I won't be thrown rocks at for saying that it sounds ludicrous."
you basically says i shouldn't - but i also shouldn't be responsible for.
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I kinda agree with you on that. Tho he explained that he believes everything is by god's will, it still feels a bit silly imo. :/
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Feel free to keep throwing rocks...
I, for one, added you to my whitelist :-)
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I have no dog in this fight. And any opinions I have as a random Internet person are pretty much irrelevant.
The only thing I'd say in the interest of possibly pointing out a misunderstanding is that I think that MRLW's "wthog" isn't meant quite so literally...I think it's just an expression in his language, meaning, "God-willing." I'm not sure he thinks of it as, "There's a God and he's helping me win gifts here." He conveyed as much somewhere in this discussion.
So, would you have responded as you did if he's just said, "Thanks hope to win it, God-willing." Yes, he's saying the word "God" in a public forum, but he's not implying that God is going to help him win video games-- which I think is the sentiment you found ludicrous enough to respond to.
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in his language
I wasn't aware English was a primary language in Israel, and unfortunately that seems to be contributing to the issue.
but he's not implying that God is going to help him win video games
Yes he is. Few people are arguing his right to express himself or his beliefs, but that's most definitely what that phrasing means. Ignoring personal interpretation, that's actually how the phrase is normally used [at the very least in some regions].
His unwillingness to acknowledge anyone else's considerations, beliefs, or interpretations- or take any stance other than "I do what I want, and what I want is good, and anyone with other opinions clearly doesn't like me and thus can screw off"- is definitely what's blowing the matter from a casual conflict of interpretations to the current mess of negativity.
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Sorry-- I can clarify one thing. I meant to say that I believe he said there's an expression in his language which he (and others?) are translating to "wthog," (reference) but I'm proposing that maybe a better/clearer translation is "God-willing."
Neither one of us can truly get inside his brain and absolutely know his intentions-- though we can base it on the words he uses (in a non-native language) to express it-- but the interpretation I'm proposing is that he's more saying, "everything happens as God wishes it to-- so I hope I win it [because He wishes it to happen]." Instead of, "God's going to help me win a video game!"
I'm not taking a stance (publicly at least) on how he or Mehrine (or anybody else in this thread) is behaving. I was more interested in pointing out a nuance that could have lead to a misunderstanding (and then a lot more afterward). And I could be wrong in that interpretation.
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IMO people are blowing a joke/mindless comment way out of proportion, anywho, sorry for the witch hunt you gotta endure now.
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EDIT: Removed the report as this was done with the agreement of both sides.
I don't really care about this whole mess.
But.
What you're doing here is (kind of) calling out. The person's behaviour was (maybe?) a bit out of place, but doing what you did is much more harmful as it makes him land on blacklists just because you felt offended...
Anyway, I reported you for calling out. This thread leads to nowhere and should be closed (imo).
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He did ask me if he could "take it to the public" and I said yes, so there's no calling out here.
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Oh, my bad then.
You can proceed with your nonsense guys.
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so in other words you say its OK to be bullied, but NOT ok to stand for yourself...good to know...good to know...
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Maybe you should get off your high horse
Who is the bully in this situation, really?
Both of you are at fault for continuing this dumb conversation instead of moving past it
But at least he responds directly to you.You where the one who created this thread to call him out, and rile up people, to fight for something they have nothing to do with, has to ensure Mehrine couldnt defend himself
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you are not Sirius right?
- i made a thank you comment
- he offended it, me and my beliefs
- i tried to end it
- he continued
- i actually asked his permission for this thread
and you call me a bully?
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The star or the character?
EDIT: i didnt called you anything, i asked you a question
EDIT2:
- ?...not to the person who actually creates the GA and delivers the game, or maybe you did partially... thats fine enough
- ...and you decided to force others to be offended by it aswell
- you replied and created this thread
- he had intentions of trolling, but you're right, it makes your actions much more ethical
Perhaps you felt you had to drop down to a similar level to be able to discuss this matter?
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"Who is the bully in this situation, really?" that apply to who then?
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You? Him? No one?...things are not has black n white has you try to portrait them.
EDIT: he acted alone and you tried to influence the community against their brhalf.
of course i didn't brought it up because i thought either of you where a bully, but because you accused him of being one.
that's the thing with bullying, you never know when one ends and another begins
you told them you would take a private topic to public, not expose him for blacklisting, this is calling out independently of how many time you tell me he agreed to it
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"ou? Him? No one?...things are not has black n white has you try to portrait them." - thats not what your words applies (and we both know it).
"that's the thing with bullying, you never know when one ends and another begins" - really you cant tell the differences between bullying and standing up for yourself?
"you told them you would take a private topic to public, not expose him for blacklisting, this is calling out independently of how many time you tell me he agreed to it"
i asked not told and him - not them, and i did it just because he stated its already "public".
its not calling out when its agreed by both parties (and when its already public) - and no matter what you think or say changes it.
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-
LMAO, are you trying to twist my own words, what exactly was i implying?
To me it felt i was stating you were wrong at accusing him of being a bully, perhaps a really bad troll at the most. But if you want to accuse him of bullying then...yes, you would be one as well. In fact most bullies try to create small groups of people to antagonize others. -
you are not really standing up for yourself, you are hopping others do it for you.
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You are not for real, i dont think you understand what bully is and what standing for oneself means.
bully initiate conflict.
one that stand for himself deal with it.
OP clearly dealt with it 1:1 at first , when that didn't do well he actually asked permission to open this thread, and he started commenting on it after giving time for people to say there minds.
OP didn't disrespect him, didn't disrespect his beliefs, and he didn't start it at all in the first place.
the other one, mocked him, his beliefs, his comment and way of life.
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Are you related to MRLW?
Seems like most of the interaction you have had on Steam or SG has been with him.
Not saying that being friends with him makes your opinion any less meaningful...though you do have an odd profile.
EDIT: > the other one, mocked him, his beliefs, his comment and way of life.
MRLW wrote exactly the same thing
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You have a knack to say shady things in a way every one know what it means yet when confronted you can cowardly "deny".
why don't you grow a spin and speak directly?
though you do have an odd profile
im so touched you checked it.
MRLW wrote exactly the same thing
yes that is actually called having the same opinion.
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im so touched you checked it.
you should be, you where able to create a SG account with mostly free games. that's impressive
yes that is actually called having the same opinion.
So if i tried to continue this discussion with the 2 of you, i would probably go around in a loop?
EDIT: well it might sound shady, but i didnt lie or accused you of anything. though i dont like the idea of now starting the same discussion with...lets say, his younger brother
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SG account with free games
check again.
go around in a loop?
hope not you will waste all of us time.
but i didnt lie or accused you of anything
here we go again.
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so this is what we need to do to get you back playing dang? :-)
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"what exactly was i implying?"
That im the bully
"But if you want to accuse him of bullying then...yes, you would be one as well"
you do know what bully is right? because im not sure you do...
"you are hopping others do it for you"
im intrigued how you got to this assumption.
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- you were able to make that assumption based on a question? i see...i wont take that away from you then.
- yes, i also know they prefer smaller and weaker prey. Do you think you were being bullied? maybe you are the one who cant distinguish a bully from a troll.
- the moment you made this thread. you could have created this topic without pointing out to the user's profile, but you didn't.
you see, i make assumptions based on real facts
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"cant distinguish a bully from a troll."
a troll is a form of virtual bully.
"you could have created this topic without pointing out to the user's profile, but you didn't"
your point is? any one can google it - it is PUBLIC.
"you see, i make assumptions based on real facts"
you make assumptions - yes dont know about the rest.
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a troll is a form of virtual bully.
Trolls do not target individuals, they seek for attention and thats what he did.
but you are right, he is not a troll either, just a not so friendly user that was tired of seeing the same automated comment.
Rest assured unlike cyber bullies he did not target you and most likely wont comment in any more of your comments
your point is?
I already stated my point : /
this is calling out, and unlike him who targeted religion, you are the one who decided to take the day to point and shame another user...i have no idea why support does not deal with this threads the same way it deals with others....but i'm certainly not ok with it
EDIT: are all religious people this vengeful over nothing?
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"Trolls do not target individuals"
nether bully - they target those they think they can "get with" and wont make a fuss.
"the same automated comment"
its not automated actually.
"Rest assured unlike cyber bullies he did not target you"
i think you need to read again his comments!
" and most likely wont comment in any more of your comments"
here im hoping it will be as you think.
"this is calling out"
no its not.
"you are the one who decided to take the day to point and shame another user."
im not shaming him - his behavior does, i did not target him - he targeted me.
"i have no idea why support does not deal with this threads the same way it deals with others...."
as there is nothing wrong in THIS thread,there is certainly something wrong with the behavior of one person on the first thread.
"but i'm certainly not ok with it"
well now you know what i felt and feel still! (not that i wish it to any one)
"are all religious people this vengeful over nothing?"
i have no idea how other people are, but this aint vengess
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I wouldn't call any of you a bully, you're just both behaving quite stupidly today.
You see something offensive on the internet? Well, tough luck, ignore it and move on. That is life, trolls happens and to me it looks like you're both quite enjoying the pigfight in mud that just ensued.
So, as I said, please do continue with your nonsense guys, I'm abandoning the thread, as probably everyone should do, because this (as always) leads to nothing.
Have fun.
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Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.
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you both whipped out your religion (or, in Merine's case, lack thereof) and started waving it around.
Please ignore the second half of the quote, which is not relevant to the topic at hand
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Some people are frustrated when you call divine help to win entertainment products in a lottery.
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ok, and how does it give them the right to do what he did?
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It was merely answer to your first question. To your second one, in some degree he was doing same thing as you: commenting. In too aggressive manner, perhaps. I personally see no reason to argue on this topic but I can understand if people have different viewpoints on it.
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i get probably blacklisted like hell for this but fuck it.
i'm agnostic and i do not think that stories made up by people thousands of years ago should have any influence on peoples lives today.
i don't see any reason to defend or even accept the beliefs of religious people.
its just irrational to let people spread their superstitions.
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where exactly do "spread their superstitions" is exactly?
i dont even write it full but as initials just for that reason alone!
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Do you actually think there's a difference between writing it in full or using an abbreviation?
It conveys the exact same message.
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sure i do, look on how many people who dont make the connection to it.
if you use the phrase "with the help of god" it easy for you to connect it to wthog.
if you dont - then its meaningless.
and thats why i write it like this.
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it was meant generally.
not as a criticism of you personally.
i don't care if you write "wthog"
but you should not be surprised if someone finds that funny and starts an argument.
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i dont mind he find it funny thats his call - i do mind the way he made his statement.
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but you engaged him over and over again.
that is not something you should do if you don't want an argument.
the way he made his statement was ridiculing your beliefs.
that's actually what many atheists and agnostics think of beliefs , they are hilariously ridiculous to us.
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i replied as he behaved inappropriate not because his thought - on my belief.
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someone would probably make it into an argument for the existence of god
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What The Hell, O.G.? (original gangster = old timer or cool person, depending on circumstances)
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or, as I've said in a previous thread one of the previous times this was discussed, Own Goal (which is only really applicable if you're a football nut ;) )
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Why can't we just let people be? He isn't harming anyone and yet we have a huge thread full of vitriol and hate and general meaniness.
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Not religious myself, but I'm pretty sure, that you guys have some rules against calling out your god's name over the most petty things imaginable. Like winning a game on a random website for example.
Just sayin'
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he didn't name him.
god is not his name.
JHWH is his name
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Why should there be a rule if someone writes "thank god I won" etc.?
He isn't trying to convert anybody.
He isn't saying "my god is better than your god"
Or "you non-believers should burn in hell"
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Dunno, ask the guys, who wrote The Bible. As far as I remember, assuming that god should be there and help you and you specifically everytime you only want for the smallest reasons possible is selfish and disrespectful or something; again, don't ask me
I totally understand, if someone says "thank god I won" irl and spontaneously, but if you write this generic message on every GA you enter, it really does look ridiculous and loses any sort of impact.
Also, I don't know, where did you see in my comment any implication that I saw in his message statements like "my god is better than your god"
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The "my god is better than your god"was an example for what some people may write or say. That's why some places forbid discussions involving politics or religion.
Didn't mean to imply anything.
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there are religions/sects that insist on invoking god for nearly everything, from thanking god for everything that has happened or every item that has been received, to saying "god willing" or "with the help of god" for every item not yet received or any event that has not yet happened.
Some people just say it out of habit.
note that it's also a form of brainwashing / indoctrination. But let's not go there
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One of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain", or the more longform "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain", exodus 20:7. Taking the lord's name in vain is considered blasphemy, and while it's not something that's very strictly adhered to these days, I could see why anyone who's a believer would take offense to someone asking the lord for something petty & selfish.
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That's if they're christian and believe in the bible.
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From what I can tell, that description fits the OP.
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im actually Jewish :-)
and "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" is meant by swearing not by praying.
there is a deference between praying to god for something, and by swearing with god name on something...
for example:
its ok to ask from god in a pray - let say blessing on your life\work\project etc.
its forbidden to say to your friend "i swear in god name" about false things.
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Ah sorry, I guess it was my own prejudiced speaking there. Most of the time when i see someone using "god" in a similar context it has been a christian doing that, and thus I made the mental connection.
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But there's a difference between asking for God's help and just stating that if something does happen it is thanks to God.
"Lord please let me win" vs "praise the lord, I won"
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We don't know what god he believes in and how using their god's name is considered appropiate. There are more religions than just christianity etc.
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I guess it depends a bit on how strong of a believer you are, and how literally you take what's in the bible, but from my understanding, it refers not only to asking god for things, but for using god's name as a way of talking about mundane everyday things, as that makes it a hollow gesture.
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and who dicides whats mundane everyday things and whats not? :-)
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That's of course up for debate, but from the more modern theological debate, I've gathered that it's no longer so much fearing repercussions from god that is the issue, but rather cheapening his name. If you thank god, or call upon god, for even small things, then it becomes routine and loses its meaning. Basically, the more you use a word, the less meaning & power is behind it.
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well we think differently for example - god is in every aspect of my life, in what i perceive as good and in what i perceive as not good....
asking for god help does not make it less meaning to me but more of it - as i understand everything is by his will.
its like asking your parents approval - it dosent get meaningless over time - but more respectable :-)
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Taking the lord's name in vain is considered blasphemy, and while it's not something that's very strictly adhered to these days, I could see why anyone who's a believer would take offense to someone asking the lord for something petty & selfish.
That certainly was the outlook where I grew up.
Honestly, probably the only commandment that was given any weight, other than 'honor thy parents'. Alas. :X
But, rather, the OP being Jewish only makes it more curious, since everyone I've ever met of that religion, and every portrayal of members of that religion, indicates a far more strict belief in that commandment.
Even the most casual believers I met at least gave the commandment a passing nod, with a sort of "Well, you can say it trivially, but I won't" approach.
Just a bit of a surprise to think that those practicing in Israel would be less concerned in that regard than southern America.. >.>
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i dont know from which religion you got that, by my people you can and should prey for whatever you need\want - as long you understand you will not necessary get it, and that you should be thankful both ways.
and as we see it god is in everything and any aspect of life, the one you considers irrelevant as well :-)
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It's a matter of interpretation. But, there's a difference between
"Lord, please let me win" vs "praise the lord, I won"
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he's probably jewish.
so there is a lot less shaming than in christian and muslim beliefs.
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WHOAH. It's wholeheartedly a part of the muslim belief as well. And there are plenty of variants of christianity that do so as well.
I have no idea where you pulled this from
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true "Lord, please let me win" - its a pray
while "praise the lord, I won" - is saying thanks to god for the blessing.
there is a place for both.
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As quoted by Fnord above, the 3rd commandment: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain". Almost trying to summon your god so he could help you win some random bundle game does seem pretty selfish.
But I guess it could indeed by a matter of interpretation.
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I think god is busy with this one:
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That screenshot is a bit outdated
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The more often I see that copy-pasted message, the more I feel like you make laughing stock from my and others beliefs.
It was only matter of time that someone will get angered enough to act.
How it unfolded is another story. Starting with bad taste joke and getting worse. You both laid traps and both of you fallen in them.
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Where I grew up [in Texas], where religion was a purely social power thing with basically no sincerity behind it, even there it was considered inappropriate to use "wthog" for things so trivial.
Given that the OP is apparently from Israel, he would have no excuse to co-opt an English abbreviation and then expect native speakers to not interpret it as they would from a local speaker.
That's like if I said "Allahu Akbar" every time someone posted a picture of a Pokemon, and then said "Oh, it's alright, my Pokemon-religion says it's a valid usage of the phrase."
[That metaphor in no way is intended to compare the OP's religion to a silly Pokemon gag, just to note how absurdly offensive his approach can come across.]
You're welcome to do whatever you like with your religion, but not so far as it extends to using phrases that mean something else to others, in any way you please.
I have always, rightly or wrongly, perceived the OP to be an offensive ass with no respect for others- something that is highly emphasized by their overwhelming amounts of spam.
Besides, the OP doesn't add any sort of clarification to his phrase to justify it being personally significant [and how the hell can a mindless acronym be personal, to begin with?].
Moreover, regardless of if it's part of his religion or not, you basically don't see anyone else on SG flaunting their religion, because we all for the most part understand we don't have the right to shove it in other people's faces or risk dismissing their own beliefs by putting ours ahead of theirs when it isn't necessary to do so.
So yeah, I've quite the low opinion of the OP- and as you say, this was a long time coming.
Of course, the fact that the individual that brought it up was kinda an ass about it, well, that follows- those of us less inclined to be that offensive simply've let the matter pass without comment. It'd take someone that inflamed to broach the topic, since hey, most of us [unlike the OP] do respect the beliefs of others enough not to poke at them [unless graciously prompted to by the individual in question :P].
tl;dr version: If the OP wants respect for his outlook, he should use a phrase that isn't blasphemous in another religion, doesn't mock basically everyone else's beliefs, is better clarified, isn't presented as total spam, and actually is relevant to his religion, rather than being a phrase used in another one.
Good grief.
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Can I ask you a question, Sooth? (It's not covert argument. I don't want to be part of the scuffle in here, but what you said is interesting.)
What does 'WTHoG' mean in your cultural milieu? I grew up amongst Evangelical Christians in the Northern US, and spent some years in TX later on. But I'm not familiar with the expression as an idiom.
(I've heard people say "with the help of God", usually as part of a longer sentence, of course. But in those contexts I'm pretty sure it just meant what it sounds like it means: its a prepositional phrase about divine aid.)
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My experiences with it had it used as a prayer for aid for things you couldn't handle yourself.
In theory that made it petty to be used for anything trivial, but there always seemed to be some leniency for 'socially acceptable' things. :rolleyes:
But in most common practice, you only used it for things like "I hear your father had a car accident and is in surgery? I hope he pulls through!" "With the help of god.." or "I hear Lousiana flooded! I hope the survivors make it out okay.." "With the help of god.."
Throwing it around as tritely as the OP does completely spits on that sort of sincere, meaningful usage.
I mean, I don't have any attachment to the absurd social structures of where I grew up, but that element? Yeah, that bothers me. That's something that goes past differing belief systems, and just makes a mockery of the real hurdles that people face, for the sake of wishing for something trivial for your own self-satisfaction.
Sure, the OP seems to think the phrase means 'God willing', which is.. awkward, but certainly far less directly offensive. But y'know, that's just not how I [and apparently others] understand that phrase.
Interestingly, he throws that phrase out even in giveaways where the GA creators ask for non-spammy replies. I've been pretty certain, given his overall disdainful approach to things, that he's an autojoiner as well. Which definitely would emphasize the insincerity of the usage..
[ In fact, it was his repeated ignoring of my own considerations that led me to blacklist him back when in the first place.. :/ ]
Well, whether he autojoins or not, there's no doubting that a co-opted acronym spammed in every thread is hardly sincere, and certainly doesn't have the usage the OP seems to rely on it having- nor is there doubt that the OP seems pretty astoundingly intolerant of the considerations of others, given his expectation that others should respect his own.
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Ah, interesting. Thanks for the careful answer. In the South, then, this is a phrase that carries a fair amount of gravity and weight. So using it in this sort of context seems at odds with that, like a joke (rather as if one somberly recited funeral rights when a video game character died).
I took it in a different way, possibly as a result of different context. I've spent time with a sub-set of evangelicals who feel that any talk of luck by a Christian is blasphemous, an implicit denial of providence. They thus tend to habitually insert talk of God and of grace where the rest of us would say 'luck' or 'fortune'. Had I come across MRLW's replies, I'd probably just have chalked it up to that sort of thing and thought no more of it.
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I dunno about the south as a whole, but at the least, in the various areas I grew up in.
We have that whole "God provides, but only if you're worthy" thing going on, so it's a bit different from that predestination-esque vibe you're discussing.
After all, the South has a strong belief in the devil and his corrupting abilities, so while GOD is all-powerful, "luck" is a matter of your righteousness and God's grace.
Asking for God's grace on something trivial is just..
Well, "God asks of you, you do not ask of him". Or more precisely, you can ask, but you accept things as they are either way, and you don't ask for paltry things, because that doesn't treat God with the respect he's due.
( Rather, you're supposed to abide by "What God gives, you endure, and trust in him in all things." rather than trying to imply you know better than him what you should have. Hence why you're supposed to use the phrase only in regards to an "I hope things work out" sentiment, not an "I want this" sentiment.)
( tl;dr version, you express your compassion for others, or the strength of your desires and dedication to them- you don't treat God like Santa Claus. :P )
I dunno if that's a clear enough explanation of it?
Well, again, my concern isn't the religious expectations, it's the way that it overvalues the importance of games and implies that a single person's personal desires for mundane things should exceed the value of compassion for others. Hell, even treating them as equal in value is bad enough, and that's the inevitable outcome of using the phrase universally.
Again, if that doesn't match the OP's usage, he has full rights to his own beliefs- unfortunately, at the point where he's throwing it in the faces of those who have other beliefs, on top of his seeming appropriation of the phrase of another region/belief system, on top of his insincere acronym/spam approach..
It's all just very.. uncomfortable.
And that's before the OP starts being pissy and hypocritical and intolerant about things when the matter is brought to his attention. :X
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That seems pretty clear to me. Again thanks for taking the time. The very different significance words can have, even to speakers of a shared language, is quite interesting to me.
(Among other things, living in central TX it was interesting to discover "bless his heart" often used as a put down. :) Also linguistically interesting was the stacking of modals: "might could", "could ought to" and so on. I take it that's a way to politely make suggestions seem more tentative and mitigated. But I'd never heard it before moving there.)
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thats a lot of words to say "i dont like him" - thats fine its mutual! i dont like you either.
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Besides, I can't say I disagree with anything Mehrine said in the original discussion. His tone was overly hostile, and the encounter didn't need to be made in the first place, but he's completely on point about the OP shoving his beliefs in a public setting and expecting people to oblige him.
By contrast, the OP engages in some pretty hostile, self-centered hypocrisy in his own replies.
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I voted salad because there wasn't an option for "We both need to just get over ourselves and move on"
Was some of the stuff he said unnecessary? Perhaps.
Did it start as a harmless joke? Absolutely.
Did you break that one obvious rule: Don't engage the troll? Yup.
Edit
Am I missing something in "Thanks hope to win it wthog ^_^" that is some sort of call to a god? Seems like a bog standard copy-paste spam thanks to me.
Edit 2x: I see now. I just assumed "wthog" was the OP's username.
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It's probably best to avoid religious talk online or at the very least ignore the heat.
Probably on the Top 10 most volatile topics in a public forum.
Still, you did pretty well. Good job = )
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im not sure i understand you correctly but thanks?! :-)
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My opinion: two dumbasses arguing on the internet. It's pretty much the 9gag level of conversation, lowest of the low.
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When you throw in religion or politics this is what might happen.
We have a wide variation of beliefs and opinions on this website but we all share the love for gaming. Lets just keep it at that.
And tbh, I´ve seen way worse. Sometimes the smartest thing to do is just to let it pass and move on.
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It boils down to this, I'm a firm believer in personal freedom in all things. Everyone is free to believe as they choose, and free to say whatever they want. Does that exclude them from judgement, hell no. I wont ever tell someone they cant believe in the flying spaghetti monster, but I might think they are an idiot for it. Nor would I ever try to limit someones speech, but I will certainly refuse to consider their points if they prove themsevles to be ignorant, racist, sexist whatever.
TLDR; people suck, dont like someone for whatever reason, blacklist them and move on.
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I understand how you'd be offended or upset, I would too. People should be free to believe in what they want to, you can't force them. Even if they are public with their belief, like we are public with out belief. However as a muslim, if someone specifically attacks my religion, and then gets mad when I correct them, then I'll argue with them until we reach a dead end. I say what you did is completely right, you weren't angry or using profane language, +1 to you! <3
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He can do what he wants, he comes off as a dick doing it, but he's free to do that. I don't believe in a religion either, but I don't feel the need to disrespect those who do. Sadly, this kind of bully attitude is common among atheists on the internet.
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Well it's a public place and anyone is allowed to their opinion (as long as it doesn't go against the rules of the site). If you dislike another person's opinion the best course of action is to ignore it.
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I'm not going to say anything about what I think, it would just lead to blacklists no matter which side I'm on. I do think Mehrine was just trolling though, so no need to be upset and feed the trolls.
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a fine fella wrote this to my thanks for the GA op (he aint the op) would like to know what you think of it...
would also love you will say why you chose what you chose...
(and i asked for his permission for this...)
the start is on the pic the rest is on the link to the discussion:
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/d89Ni/the-witcher-adventure-game#ZaOd34D
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