so what do you think?
Well, I'm just echoing most people's sentiments here. He didn't need to post that comment; it was a bit disrespectful, but not highly offensive (at least in my eyes). The best thing to do is ignore it.
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My opinion is the following: He was joking, you apparently didn't notice, so you kept replying to him and brought religion further into the conversation, then he replied to that (granted, kind of rude, it could have been worded better) then you started saying nonsense. And then for some reason you decided to bring drama to the forums, to somehow ask people to defend your nonsense. I'm probably biased though because I'm against religion, but he's right, this is a public forum, anyone can and will post whatever they want.
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The only deity that can help winning you a game is RNJesus. Or maybe Cthulhu, but he needs sacrifices.
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This discussion should be closed... it's clearly only leading to arguments and blacklistings. People should simply keep their religious beliefs to themselves, unless asked about them. Religion is one of the things that should not be discussed publicly, because it only leads to arguments.
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religion should be as often and publicly discussed as possible.
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If people could calmly and rationally discuss such a thing, I might agree... but unfortunately that doesn't happen. Especially not on the internet. There's ignorance on both sides.
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Some can, and if they do, hearing them is usually worth digging through a pile of, khm, mud
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I agree with you, but I just checked the guidelines and there's technically nothing against this kind of threads.
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Threads should not be closed because they are deemed unconfortable or whatever. Ban the idiots that went overboard, keep the thread open.
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Welp, this thread finally got me to achieve parity. Didn't see that coming!
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how did you do that, tell me your secret i'm willing to pay.
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"you've finally managed to spread division and unpleasantness in the community"
I still don't understand how you made this assumption
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So you accuse him for being insulted for his views of life that don't fit yours? instead of accusing the one who actually insulted him on a matter he had no say in?
and you accuse him further in "spread division and " when your own words are unpleasantness and inappropriate (double standards)?
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By making a thread about religion he caused a shitstorm. A lot of rude words were exchanged between the members of the community, lots of blacklists were made. Some people I was cool with now have me on their blacklist for example, blacklisted a couple myself, even removed someone from my whitelist.
This is why religion shouldn't be brought up, nothing good ever comes out of it. But MRLW just had to...
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If someone is trolled or insulted they have every right to make a thread. If people were blacklisted it's because the other person found their behaviour or views unacceptable. Nothing wrong with that.
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Have you seen the meme "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole"? It could be applied here.
He is right - it is an open forum - and he is just expressing what he feels to be right, but he is doing so in an unwarranted way, and showing some real poor manners in doing so. His idea is quite clearly expressed to annoy, not to be kind or helpful or informative, or at least expressed out of annoyance.
But then again, so was (most) of your answers. He baited you, you took the bait, and after a few rounds of that, all you really can say in your defense is: "Well, he started it". It isn't the best of excuses is it? =)
Then there's another "truth": Just because someone becomes offended, doesn't automatically mean that a statement was offensive, that's two different things. To me there seems to be a tendency today to rule out anyone as "offensive" as soon as they express something that isn't completely in line with what the other person believes or thinks. As a general rule, the world knows what is truly offensive, and most schools, workplaces, forums like this, or any other place where people gather and express ideas or feelings are moderated in some way to keep true offensiveness out of it - as it is here. If he was being truly offensive he would have gotten a temporary ban (or a perm ban if it is a repeated issue), but he wasn't. He was being rude, mildly rude even I would say. Because that's why you asked this question here isn't it, to find out wether I think he was as offensive as you feel offended?
I think (now I'm just speculating/rambling though...) that the discussion might not even had taken off if it would have been about a different subject. Religion - or personal belief/faith - is a very thankful subject for trolling as everyone has a stake in it, wether they want to or not. If you have faith (canon or otherwise) you have most probably been put on the spot before to defend your beliefs. If you do not have those beliefs you have been in the same position - if you haven't you soon will be, it,'s just the way of the world. Neither side can prove the other side wrong for exactly the same reasons, and many of us slightly distrusts the person that is on the other side of the fence even before the disussion starts... well...
I am 45 YO, have had many heated discussions regarding religion vs atheism, and the one thing i've learned is that there is no such thing as a definitive argument, no magic sentence to speak that will make your "opponent" go: "You are right, I will change my beliefs to the same as yours". None at all. So these discussions are best performed low key, to learn about the other argument, and face to face, where you can see and hear the other person, so you can easily judge the tone, and not online where keyboard-anonymity turns people into trolls just because they can.
TL:DR summary:
No, he was not being offensive.
Yes, he was being rude.
You should have let it slide but instead you fed the troll.
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so if you speak for lets say your friend on lets say a public place like park, and some one comes and makes a comment to you regards what you said to you friend - you basically says he has the right to it...
while at it (thinking at it i mean) can you show me where did "(most) of your answers" you speak off? and explain how exactly they are?
ohh and please...while on that can you explain me how is his first comment (the pic of where is your god now - https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/d89Ni/the-witcher-adventure-game#bzDEmBC ) fits your analysis of "Just because someone becomes offended, doesn't automatically mean that a statement was offensive"
"I think (now I'm just speculating/rambling though...) that the discussion might not even had taken off if it would have been about a different subject. Religion" - its not its about the way he chose to comment, the time he chose to comment and the way he kept on it.
"I am 45 YO, have had many heated discussions" - im 36 years old and so did i, this is the first time tho it was forced on me by a person for something that wasnt concerned him at all.
TL:DR summary:
- there is a deference between public area and personal space, you can be in public - but on personal space.
- when someone chose the lowest way to represent an idea (like posting that picture directly to a person that believe in god) - it is to offend - and intentionally.
- the discussion is about attitude not religion
(thank you for taking your time to write your post tho i dont agree with it- i appreciate it)
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so if you speak for lets say your friend on lets say a public place like park, and some one comes and makes a comment to you regards what you said to you friend - you basically says he has the right to it...
Offcourse not, i would climb on top off a park bench, and state my opinion loudly
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"so if you speak for lets say your friend on lets say a public place like park, and some one comes and makes a comment to you regards what you said to you friend - you basically says he has the right to it..."
Yes. Unequivocally, absolutely yes. It's called free speech. Me and my friend might not like that he's listening in on our conversation, we might not like what he has to say, or the manner in which he says his piece, but he has the right to make it. If me and my friend have the need for an absolutely private conversation, then we must go to a private place to ensure that, otherwise the situation you mention above might arise. Then again, it might also be an absolutely innocent comment, or a good piece of advice or information - should not a stranger be allowed to give that either?
"while at it (thinking at it i mean) can you show me where did "(most) of your answers" you speak off?"
What I meant was it was clear that his comments annoyed you, and the following exchanges between the two of you was the "feeding of the troll". It's not so much what you said but the fact that you engaged at all. Much as when the guy jumps in my conversation in your example above, if I engage him with contradicting comments of my own I'm setting myself up for a bigger issue than a simple outburst from some stranger. If you recall, KAOL very wisely stayed out of the discussion, and
"ohh and please...while on that can you explain me how is his first comment (the pic of where is your god now - https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/d89Ni/the-witcher-adventure-game#bzDEmBC ) fits your analysis of "Just because someone becomes offended, doesn't automatically mean that a statement was offensive"
Well, the picture to begin with is not a picture that makes fun of religion or people with faiths, it's a picture that makes fun of people who go to the bathroom without checking thet there is an ample supply of paper before doing the business. It makes fun of the poor person sitting there with his/her pants down with a desperate need for paper without making reference to their beliefs. The word God here means God to a religious person, it means science or similar to a non-religious person (the imaginary person on the toilet). It's been online for quite some time without causing any religious flame wars because the picture itself is a joke about a situation noone wants to find themselves in. And it actually took the poster quite the farfetched explanation to get it to have a make-fun-of-a-religion meaning.
"I think (now I'm just speculating/rambling though...) that the discussion might not even had taken off if it would have been about a different subject. Religion" - its not its about the way he chose to comment, the time he chose to comment and the way he kept on it.
Absolutely, you are correct, hence my pre-warning about speculation and rambling.
"I am 45 YO, have had many heated discussions" - im 36 years old and so did i, this is the first time tho it was forced on me by a person for something that wasnt concerned him at all."
I'm actually very glad for you that that is the case, there's quite a lot of intolerant people out there - on both sides of the discussion. I truthfully hope you never have to meet one again, but chances are that you will I'm afraid.
Have a good one!
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"or a good piece of advice or information - should not a stranger be allowed to give that either?"
and do you feel this is the case? and what would you do if its inappropriate and offensive?
"KAOL very wisely stayed out of the discussion, and " - you got cut there
you know, my people learned (on our self experience) that ignoring bad behavior just let it spread and happen more and more - and to more people.
"It's been online for quite some time without causing any religious flame"
i dont see how your argument fits. during that time it sits online did it posted to a religions person when referring to his god?
its the same way saying smoking is in the world for a long time yet no nun-smoker one takes it badly - and then seeing a smoker comes to a nun smoker and blow smoke in his face!
"there's quite a lot of intolerant people out there - on both sides of the discussion. I truthfully hope you never have to meet one again, but chances are that you will I'm afraid."
true, true , and i hope you are wrong (on the chances i mean)
again thank you for your comment and your time, happy gaming ^_^
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His opinion and point stands. However, he had a bad attitude.
For example, I agree with his point that a person shouldn't believe that God has anything to do with the probability and chance of entering giveaways - I'll be very honest with you; from my point of view, this sounds very silly. But then, I wouldn't go around pointing it out to anyone who says WTHOG because 1, it's none of my business in the first place and 2, I know this will just end in a bad and pointless argument.
Now here, on the forum, I do not hold back on my thoughts and opinions because the whole point of a discussion is to share ideas and opinions on a topic. With that said, just ignore users who attempt to aggravate you. There's no other way this conversation could have gone, so why engage into it at all in the first place.
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Potato salad. I saw the religion - penis comparison. So here's asshole - opinion comparison:
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one
Because you would like to see mine...I'll show you.
Sometimes, I try to imagine if this happens in real life. What Would I Do? I just ignore it.
"I ain't got time for this, stranger. Now if you'll excuse me..." What if I kept being pestered? I just report to the authority.
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I feel like with most internet arguments, things went downhill when the argument shifted from being about ideology or beliefs to being about individuals (for example: MRLW talking about unsolicited perspectives and Mehrine bringing up their win rate). I feel like you can't really discuss the merits of something like a belief system on the individual level when the parties involved don't know much about each-other outside the fact that the other believes a thing and that's why we end up with repetitive arguments like this.
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A blatant troll. Why? Atheists and agnostics generally don't care what you believe in and have better ways of spending their time.
Added:
Just because you guys forced me to type some letters, have a giveaway
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Actually, there are a lot of militant atheists out there, who try to force their nonbelief on others
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Well, if you think about it, it is a belief system. And, like every belief system, it has adherents who insist on imposing their belief on others
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I think its stronger than that. Its not a lack of belief in gid, but a firm belief there is no God.
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A belief that there are no gods implies the lack of belief in gods, but not the other way around. So if one is atheist because of one's belief that there are no gods, how would we call those that only lack belief in gods?
In any case, I'm inclined to take the definition straight from the horse's mouth.
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He's not mocking religion; he's mocking how petty and shallow your belief really is. Bringing up God, especially in the context of winning a giveaway is asinine, and it shouldn't surprise it annoys people and a few are compelled to make snide remarks. Just human nature.
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To be clear, I'm not justifying his behavior. Just saying it's going to happen.
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I still don't get it if we're talking about the Old Gods or the Seven. Mind you, I don't trust the Seven, they seem too eager to grab all the power and share none. And don't even let me started on that weird Drowned God, who knows what is he up to.
Though the Old Gods will definitely not help you win something with luck. The Old Gods want you to use your own money, gained with your own sweat, blood, and sacrifice.
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There is only True God. The Lord of Light. Come to his protecting flame or be burned with the heretics.
For the night is dark and full of terrors!
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people get triggered by religion and politics so much, that the sheer word "religion" can get you a blacklisted by some people shivers
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MRLW, I think it may be time to close the thread. Flames may have gotten out of control.
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are you sure? i did see one person act out of control not sure about the rest of the thread, but maybe you see something i dont.
reply if you are sure and i will close it.
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When I wrote the last post, the first page was at the brink of exploding, but I haven't read the whole thread since that. You can leave it be if you think it's best, if things get out of hand support will operate.
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dont know about "best" thats why i asked your opinion, but i didnt see any flames (i did see one rude person, and a lot of different perspectives tho) :-)
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I didn't know at first what wthog meant because I've never seen that before actually :p Not while paying attention anyway.
As for the 'drama'. Your comment didn't hurt other people I would think, so ignore replies like that to your comment.
Easy solution. Threads about it just cause more badness to ensue. Sadly enough.
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the amount of self-righteousness here is amazing.
getting tired of people telling others what to post, and also getting tired of automated replies.
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Not everyone is tiresome... just you
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i'm not superior, i just don't go everywhere telling people what they should or not do and insulting them for their beliefs.
the ones that should leave are the intolerant peasants, we don't need hate speech here.
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OP actually says it himself
realizing that maybe not winning the game is proof that God did step in and direct him in not winning this game
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Honestly I read it as "Thanks, hope to win it warthog". If the troll hadn't posted anything I would not have even known it was anything religious. But thanks for drawing more attention to the OPs acknowledgement that he believes in a higher power. I now know a trigger word to use next time I'm wanting to wind up the needlessly arrogant who believe they have everything figured out. Here's a hint, you don't. You are more of a douche than someone forcing their religion on others, because you can't see that you're the same, and at least the religious is dangling 'hope' at the end of their stick. Hope that life is not just a pointless journey to a sad and lonely death. :-)
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Religion also brings a lot of bad with it. Almost all intolerance in this world exist due to religious beliefs. So many wars were held over religious beliefs, so many people still get killed in this day and age due to religion.
That's why some of us hate religion, it's cancer that's been corrupting and killing humanity ever since it was created. And that's why some people are trying to reason with religious people and convert them to atheism.
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Haha yeah and sex does just as much damage to humanity, I don't see you campaigning to end that! Sex brings with it child prostitution, paedophilia, and can lead to the creation of unwanted humans. Sex is the cause of all that! So lets ban it and convert everyone to celibacy. Just because something has had some bad consequences, doesn't immediately mean it's completely without merit. But thanks for at least using the same terminology as the religious zealots. Please take your seat in the corner with them.
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Comparing religion with sex just doesn't make sense. Religions are ideologies, sex is physical activity.
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Sure it does. Think how many murders have had sex as the root cause. Spouse gets jealous, spouse kills. You are in a single stroke painting everyone who believe in a higher power with the same brush as the idiots that cause wars or kill people for those beliefs. You are saying that anyone who believes in religion automatically thinks they should kill everyone who doesn't believe the same thing. That's a pretty crappy way of thinking. So I took it to the nth degree. A lot of crime is directly related to sex, so sex is the bad thing, not the pieces of flesh that use sex as an excuse to be shitty human beings. The only thing the crusaders and someone like Mother teresa had in common is a proclaimed belief in a God. The actions of those warmongers completely went against the foundations of the religion they claimed, but you are blaming the religion and not the idiots who use religion as a way of bettering their own lives at the expense of others. All of humanities problems are because humans are basically arseholes. If they actually genuinely applied some of the morals of the religions they claim to believe in then they would be better people. And a good person is a lot nicer than an arrogant douche who forces what they believe down your throat at every opportunity. And in my experience there are a lot more of that group in the 'non-believer' category.
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Of course I don't believe all religious people are bad, but nearly all religions have a lot of bad in them and that turns some people who otherwise wouldn't be bad people into bad people.
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Sure it turns some people into lunatics. But the religion is not to blame there. That is what is in their heart already. If they didn't believe in a God they would still be horrible people, maybe just less sanctimonious about it. So maybe you shouldn't be so quick to convert them to your religion, because then they'd give atheism a bad name.
Equally so there are plenty of selfless acts of love towards fellow man motivated by a belief that this life is not all there is and there's no greater calling than to love your fellow man enough to pull them out of the gutter and help them out. Sure, maybe those people would still be nice people even without the religion, but they are acting on what they believe and actually making a difference. So why is it so important to you that you remove their motivation for being good people? Your religion preaches that it's survival of the fittest. So what reason do you offer for anyone being kind to their fellow man? What do you offer in exchange for their hope?
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I agree with you. Some people don't do bad things because they're religious, but they use religion as an excuse to do those bad things. I still think there would be less bad people overall if religion didn't exist, or if it were more tolerant towards many things.
While I do argue with religious people when they bring up religion, I don't actually go around trying to convert people to atheism. I argue more to defend reason, than to convert. I'd rather have religious people be more tolerant then them believing the same thing I do.
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Good man. It's good to challenge people to think for themselves, rather than to try and force them to think the same way you do. The golden rule should apply across all beliefs or lack there of... treat others as you want to be treated. No one likes getting verbally attacked for what they think, so it does no one any good to run full speed into every forum post where people are thinking differently to you. Explain why you think like you do, ask a few polite, maybe uncomfortable questions, and move on. Whenever it gets down to both sides just calling each other names, then no one has won, but with a bit of courtesy you'll at least earn the respect of some of your 'opponents' rather than just open hostility.
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Oh and if you really think sex is purely physical I feel bad for you... you are doing it wrong.
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Oh boy religion,what a shit covered stick that is to touch.
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a fine fella wrote this to my thanks for the GA op (he aint the op) would like to know what you think of it...
would also love you will say why you chose what you chose...
(and i asked for his permission for this...)
the start is on the pic the rest is on the link to the discussion:
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/d89Ni/the-witcher-adventure-game#ZaOd34D
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